Smashed my first 10k month!

[Subsonic]

If you're asking me from a moral point of view, then I have no problem with it. You'll probably struggle to sell anywhere near close as much as I do, but that's a different story, it's just because you have less credibility, because you're newer on the market. That's totally normal. But don't tell me you haven't learned something in 1 month of making $5K, when most marketing companies make $0 in the first few MONTHS lol.

And in fact, in industries like coaching, if you lack credibility, and your content (ie, what you teach people) sucks, then you'll have a hell of a time getting even 1 sale, because these industries are hypercompetitive

Most "scammers" who compete against me, that's the bucket they find themselves in. No case studies, no proof, 20-year old kid, it's damn hard for them, no matter what they do, simply because they're new. Even if they're not scammers and they're actually really good, it's still really tough. That's what being new is like, where credibility matters to making sales, ie in B2B.

And don't even get me started, coaching is a HARD sell. I 10xed this year because I stopped selling coaching. People hate coaching, because they want easy, guaranteed results, with no work if possible. Done-for-you over coaching. The people who are truly coachable are few and far between.

In addition, it's not just about credibility – it's the fact that I've had years to develop assets that you simply can't have as a beginner. Can you have a 40-hour video training platform, 55+ downloadable resources, 2 proprietary methodologies developed from scratch by yourself, and so on? NO – you can't. So like it or not, you'll struggle to compete against me.

Maybe you're more used to B2C through eCommerce – B2C is different, credibility matters a lot less. There I can create the "appearance" of a good product through nice pictures, fake reviews, and what not, and then sell the suckers a trinket off AliExpress.

But in B2B it's not like that. In B2B, people don't trust written reviews. They're like written review = FAKE. They want to see real people speaking over video. They want to see company names. They want to understand your process. They want to know how you're different.

It's very similar when it comes to coaching. If you want to sell coaching, then your marketing becomes your service. In your marketing, you will teach people how to quit porn. You'll talk about things to do when you feel the urge, how to change your mindset, how to develop discipline, and all those topics that you address in a more organised fashion in your coaching.

That's how you get people to trust you, in addition to video testimonials. Now if your content is good and it helps people, how is it possible that your coaching sucks?! That's right, it's not possible. Because the marketing is just a demonstration of the product.


Well, how do you know that what the expert with 30+ years of experience is teaching you is correct?

The truth is you can never know for sure. It's like when I ate turbot and developed diarrhea, bloody stools, severe pain (I couldn't sleep), and fever, and through a friend went to the top gastroenterologist at the local hospital. And she took my blood tests and after she was insisting that I get an IV because I'm "so dehydrated", which I vehemently refused (when my blood tests came, it turns out she was wrong, I wasn't dehydrated at all...). She then recommended that I go home and drink some Coke to stop the diarrhea . Ofc, I actually googled that, and found out it's actually a medical myth, not based in fact, and it can actually irritate the stomach even more. So I didn't drink the coke.

So if even 30+ years of experience experts make mistakes, how can you blindly trust anyone?

I'll tell you how I'd behave in your soccer example. I'd see if his advice is helping me improve or not. It's hard to say, but if you try to teach me to kick the ball using form that is totally off track (with no correct elements), then my kicks will not be better than they were before. Not immediately, nor after some time of practice.

I've trained in tennis for a long time. I had played at a semi-professional level for maybe 4 years already. At that point I met a coach who taught me some things about "form" that no on else had taught me before. For example, when hitting a forehand, your hand should be kept at 45 deg angle to your wrist, which will give you more power, and it should be kept locked in that position. None of my coaches before taught me that. At the beginning I thought the guy was crazy and I argued with him, but I played a few days like that, and lo and behold my hits became much stronger once I got used to it. Probably increased by 20%. So were the coaches who taught me before unhelpful, because they didn't teach me the correct form?

No – the "correct" form has many different elements and levels of mastery. Not all of them have to be correct for you to improve your game. If even a few elements of your form improved or correct, you start doing much better.

The same thing is true for everything. Even the financial advisor situation. Yes, that 24-year old guy can only advise about stocks & mutual funds. Mutual funds over keeping your money in the bank though could be an improvement. Many people can be helped by that 24-year old guy. And over time, he will learn how to play the other instruments and integrate them into the financial symphony. But, like all things, that takes time. He has to start somewhere.

"He who is secure in the value he is providing does not post thousands of words heavy responses on a forum thread to defend a sketchy 20 year old." -Sun Tsu 2378 bc.

 

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[Black_Dragon43]

"He who is secure in the value he is providing does not post thousands of words heavy responses on a forum thread to defend a sketchy 20 year old." -Sun Tsu 2378 bc.

Like the peacock’s tail. It’s an evolutionary disadvantage, but only the strong can afford the luxury of a disadvantage

 

[Kak]

I’d say that the $12 book written by a billionaire will often be ghostwritten, and even if it’s not, his advice won’t be at all applicable to you as a small business owner.

utterly useless.

But practical strategies? Nothing.

I was highlighting the very large divide in value available. I'm positive there are also 12 dollar books that would be applicable and helpful to your little business as well.

 

[Black_Dragon43]

I was highlighting the very large divide in value available. I'm positive there are also 12 dollar books that would be applicable and helpful to your little business as well.

You’re right, I found my next read on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1324015667/?tag=tff-amazonparser-20

 

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[Kak]

You’re right, I found my next read on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1324015667/?tag=tff-amazonparser-20

With the coupon it's like 10 dollars too! Even better.

 

[Jrjohnny]

Do you have experience in this area of self improvement?

If you were in a forest, one you’ve never been in, and someone would ask you which path to take to get to XYZ, would you tell them which way to go, and make them pay money for that answer?

No! You’ve never taken that path, you don’t know where it goes.

I would always want to write a book about navigating life. But luckily, I thought to myself.

I’m 13. I’ve hardly even lived life. I’m atleast half the age of my target audience.

Sure, people call me wise for my age in certain aspects of life, but certainly not in experience OF LIFE itself.

there are some books out there on that topic, except those writers have experienced life.

I’m not going to write a book on how to build a business when I never have.

I’m not going to write a book on how to drive if I never have.

I’m not going to write a book on how to navigate through life if I haven’t even navigated through my life first.

 

[BizyDad]

I think that that’s sort of how it happened lol. He started working for Jim Rohn at 17, mostly as a salesperson. By 24 he was already working for himself and made his first million, without any books published.

So Tony was the 24-yr old with “no life experience” teaching others how to make money, how to be successful, and so on. According to some people here, that’s a$$ backwards. He should’ve first become a millionaire himself, build his own business THEN teach others how to do it.

To anyone who reads this, can do math, and isn't blind, clearly that is 7 years of experience in a sales and coaching organization.

That is a very different story than what the original poster did or what Black Dragon is even asserting about Tony. You can learn a lot working for/with two different people in your field before going completely out on your own like Tony did.

Also, Tony made $40k at 24. Chew on that. 7 years of experience and he was "only" making $40k. Most posters here would quit with those kinds of results.

He was 25 when he hit his first million, 26 when he published his first book, 28 when he started doing the infomercials.

This is a Google search away folks, but don't let facts ruin Black Dragon's point.

I hope someday he starts the FakeItBeforeYouMakeItForum.com so he can post this kind of advice there instead of here. He clearly doesn't understand the point of the forum or the message it sends.

 

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[Black_Dragon43]

Also, Tony made $40k at 24. Chew on that. 7 years of experience and he was "only" making $40k. Most posters here would quit with those kinds of results.

Bro… chill out. $40K in 1984 = $120K in today’s money.

 

[Zizu]

The big part most of you here is leaving out is the feel of connection with the coach himself. As a 25 year old, I’d feel much more connected to someone coaching me who I know has had similar circumstances to me than someone who may be more experienced but is twice my age and our lives have been very different from one another. Connection and being relatable is a big and important part of the sales process, and I believe this is how @Zain Miah gets most of his clients!

 

[Kevin88660]

The big part most of you here is leaving out is the feel of connection with the coach himself. As a 25 year old, I’d feel much more connected to someone coaching me who I know has had similar circumstances to me than someone who may be more experienced but is twice my age and our lives have been very different from one another. Connection and being relatable is a big and important part of the sales process, and I believe this is how @Zain Miah gets most of his clients!

Yup I wont pay four digits for a coach in his 20s.

That’s my consumer choice, it doesn’t mean he cannot product value for his client.

I think it is a good start, but still too early to tell to see if it is sustainable. If there is repeat sales and clients recommendation then that will be fantastic.

 

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[Black_Dragon43]

The big part most of you here is leaving out is the feel of connection with the coach himself. As a 25 year old, I’d feel much more connected to someone coaching me who I know has had similar circumstances to me than someone who may be more experienced but is twice my age and our lives have been very different from one another. Connection and being relatable is a big and important part of the sales process, and I believe this is how @Zain Miah gets most of his clients!

Good point. I think there are different kind of coaches anyway with different functions. Three come to mind…

• Inspirational — they sell you the dream
• Functional — they give you the know-how
• Relatable — they help you emotionally

So take someone in my industry like Iman Ghadzi. Iman is, by the thinking of most people in this thread, a fake guru. He sells people the dream of starting an smma, and making millions. But most people, at least those that I know, struggle to get there with his material. He’s an inspirational coach.

Then there’s someone like me — I help (mostly) established agencies grow and scale. Very often people buy Iman’s products, and they don’t get results, and they realize their biggest issue is acquiring customers. So they come to someone like me. I could be considered a functional coach.

And then there’s people like Zain who might not have the motivational ability of an inspirational coach nor the know-how and prowess of a functional coach, but boy, they can relate to you and understand you on a deep level which can help you overcome certain emotional roadblocks that you have.

They are all useful in one way or another. If there was no Iman, there wouldn’t be as many digital agencies started. Why would that be a better world?

Most people on fastlane introduce moral claims into business which I think is overdone and problematic. Yes, I never said you should knowingly scam people — meaning go out there with the intention of not providing anything useful and just convincing them to give you money. Nor sell drugs to them or do anything illegal.

But there’s a big difference between doing that, and trying to teach people how to quit their jobs and start a coaching business because you’ve quit your job and just started a coaching business.

The latter is a worthy, respectable occupation, trying to solve a real problem. Yes, when you start doing that, you’ll probably be solving the problem badly. So what?! If you find buyers, you’ll gain experience, gain money, and reinvest to start solving the problem better over time. All businesses have to be financed somehow. It’s better to be financed by customers than by investors.

And all businesses start out sucky, before they get better. It can’t be any other way. When I started my first business it was sucky. When I started my second business it was sucky. Sucky is how you start. You can’t start by delivering spectacular results, that’s nuts. The first clients I ever wrote copy for 12 years ago, probably didn’t get any results from it. So what?! Nothing starts out perfect in nature. Everything goes through a process of evolution, of getting better, adapting to its environment and function.

A business is no different — discouraging people from starting because it’s “immoral” to solve a problem badly is perhaps one of the reasons why so many struggle to get started in the first place. They don’t want to suck, they don’t want to disappoint customers, but they don’t realize that you can’t make customers happy if you don’t disappoint customers first. Everything starts sucky, yes, even your business.

And yeah, I know there are exceptions. If you’ve worked for years in an industry, like @Antifragile and you’re starting your business based around that, then you’ll have an easier time, you probably won’t start out sucky. But start a business in a new industry, esp. as a newbie entrepreneur, I guarantee that it will start out as sucky. And imo, that’s okay as long as you’re putting in effort to identify problems and improve things

 

[Emperor7]

@Lex DeVille @MJ DeMarco @Black_Dragon43 @StrikingViper69 @Spenny @Black_Dragon43 @Kevin88660 @biophase @Aidan04

Just launched my informercial marketing website, my work is kinda different.
I learn deep, create content on what I learnt about then teach my members.
Isn't that what most writers & preachers do?
Taking from Epictetus words, Marcus Aurelius quotes etc...
And putting it into a more readable and relatable form..
Or am I wrong or missing something?

I don't give direct advice or step by step stuff as I understand everyone is different

I also learn from the personal experience of therapist as well
I'll give my best to post the most valuable content I can, so there would be a positive feedback loop.
I am getting excited for the future, as I am feeling a growing interest in the niche, I really want to help people.

 

[Xeon]

Tony Robbins and his mentor Jim are both part of a large scale and very deep guru industry (think Pentecostal churches).
The difference between them and these 20-year old gurus, is that they've been in this trade so long to the point that time has made them legit (like old heritage brands).

When you hear lies often enough and see the same gurus consistently branding themselves often enough, they become real and trustworthy.

Once these 20-year old gurus scale up and do the appropriate branding/PR/celeb collab moves, you'll trust them just like you trust those pentecostal pastors like Joel Osteen.

ADD: Entrepreneurship has no morale compass.

ADD: You'll never be good enough, so start now. Ready, FIRE then Aim. Remember?

 

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[Spenny]

@Lex DeVille @MJ DeMarco @Black_Dragon43 @StrikingViper69 @Spenny @Black_Dragon43 @Kevin88660 @biophase @Aidan04

Just launched my informercial marketing website, my work is kinda different.
I learn deep, create content on what I learnt about then teach my members.
Isn't that what most writers & preachers do?
Taking from Epictetus words, Marcus Aurelius quotes etc...
And putting it into a more readable and relatable form..
Or am I wrong or missing something?

I don't give direct advice or step by step stuff as I understand everyone is different

I also learn from the personal experience of therapist as well
I'll give my best to post the most valuable content I can, so there would be a positive feedback loop.
I am getting excited for the future, as I am feeling a growing interest in the niche, I want to help people.

I don't understand what you're asking - do you want validation that what you're doing is okay?

 

[Emperor7]

I don't understand what you're asking - do you want validation that what you're doing is okay?

I know it's okay... because of the way I do it.
But the comments are smashing info marketing.
The question is, am I missing something about the niche? In the sense that I am not "qualified" to share out info..
Do I really need to be "qualified with experience?"
And also does learning in depth and going far to get the info make it any different?
And isn't that what most/all content creators, preachers, writers and students do?
I don't coach, I read, learn from others implementation then I give it out..

Spenny, love your posts by the way

 

[Spenny]

I know it's okay... because of the way I do it.
But the comments are smashing info marketing.
The question is, am I missing something about the niche? In the sense that I am not "qualified" to share out info..
Do I really need to be "qualified with experience?"
And also does learning in depth and going far to get the info make it any different?
And isn't that what most/all content creators, preachers, writers and students do?
I don't coach, I read, learn from others implementation then I give it out..

Spenny, love your posts by the way

Okay, I see. Thanks for the kind comment, too

This thread is targeting people who put the cart before the horse. The problem a lot of fastlaners have is that you have:

A) People are running around, giving advice, and selling Kool-Aid for exorbitant prices (please do not give me the argument that value is relative & people can pay what they want).
B) These people may give advice which may be solid, but there is no track record to show that it will work. At best, It'll help them; at worst, it'll wreak havoc on their lives. Who's to hold you accountable? Your industry? No. You've got fifteen suckers lined up.


The result? People looking for a solution to their desperation get fleeced. What is crazier is that the majority of information you'd pay for one of these "consultations" is:

A) Things you know you need to fix.
B) That you're not being honest with yourself.
C) You're too lazy. You haven't done some reading & found ways to pull yourself together to get discipline.

$1000 to outsource my discipline & decision-making? Please - I'm okay. Many pay for these fees because they think there is a secret sauce. No - there isn't. Read ten self-help books, and they'll likely rhyme.

The exception is when the person has done it, AND there are results alongside it—more sales, better relationships, etc. Then I'd be inclined to pay you. "Don't take advice from someone you wouldn't want to be."

And what is needed for people to have done it? Experience & expertise. It's not a load of pitching.

Personal anecdote. I started a YouTube channel when I was eighteen, when I was getting involved in self-improvement. Why did I stop? Because I was a stupid 18-year-old handing out advice that I had no business handing out. I had the theory; I read the books, but I had no track record & no experience. It felt wrong what I was doing. Would I do it now? No. I still need to learn. When I'm 30-35? Only then do I consider it.


MJ summarised it the best.

Because people with zero experience and questionable credibility have no business coaching, let alone selling their strategies to others. This trend leads eager, unsuspecting people down a path that’s more about smoke and mirrors than actual skill development.

A legitimate coach doesn't just have a resume; they have a track record of real-world successes and failures, lessons learned in the trenches, not just from behind a screen. Now, it seems anyone with a laptop and a TikTok account sees themselves a coach. But slick videos and above average knowledge of marketing don’t equate to expertise.

Real coaching demands depth, experience, and a proven record – something most of these 20 year old gurus who sell coaching programs on how to be coaches to other 20 year olds don't have.

Edit: My perfectionism.

 

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[Lex DeVille]

Just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should.

 

[Emperor7]

Okay, I see. Thanks for the kind comment, too

This thread is targeting people who put the cart before the horse. The problem a lot of fastlaners have is that you have:

A) People are running around, giving advice, and selling Kool-Aid for exorbitant prices (please do not give me the argument that value is relative & people can pay what they want).
B) These people may give advice which may be solid, but there is no track record to show that it will work. At best, It'll help them; at worst, it'll wreak havoc on their lives. Who's to hold you accountable? Your industry? No. You've got fifteen suckers lined up.


The result? People looking for a solution to their desperation get fleeced. What is crazier is that the majority of information you'd pay for one of these "consultations" is:

A) Things you know you need to fix.
B) That you're not being honest with yourself.
C) You're too lazy. You haven't done some reading & found ways to pull yourself together to get discipline.

$1000 to outsource my discipline & decision-making? Please - I'm okay. Many pay for these fees because they think there is a secret sauce. No - there isn't. Read ten self-help books, and they'll likely rhyme.

The exception is when the person has done it, AND there are results alongside it—more sales, better relationships, etc. Then I'd be inclined to pay you. "Don't take advice from someone you wouldn't want to be."

And what is needed for people to have done it? Experience & expertise. It's not a load of pitching.

Personal anecdote. I started a YouTube channel when I was eighteen, when I was getting involved in self-improvement. Why did I stop? Because I was a stupid 18-year-old handing out advice that I had no business handing out. I had the theory; I read the books, but I had no track record & no experience. It felt wrong what I was doing. Would I do it now? No. I still need to learn. When I'm 30-35? Only then do I consider it.


MJ summarised it the best.


Edit: My perfectionism.

Love this!

 

[Black_Dragon43]

Because I was a stupid 18-year-old handing out advice that I had no business handing out

Why can't you be a genius 18-year old who has a ton of business handing out advice? Alexander was just 30 when he conquered the whole world. Arthur Schopenhauer wrote the World as Will & Representation when he was just 29. Hannibal Barca was wiping the floor with the Roman armies through Italy when he was just 26 years old. (Imagine him thinking, I have no business leading these older commanders who are 2-3x my age and have 2-3x my experience. It's so immoral of me to lead all these people to their deaths).

That's what I don't get. The youth of today sells themselves short. If I was 18, and I wanted to be a coach, damn, I'd be the best coach on the planet. I'd work 24/7 on it. I'd read everything. It's precisely BECAUSE you are young, that you deserve to conquer the world. Old grandpas struggle to conquer their farts, much less the world.

 

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[Emperor7]

Sorry guys, didn't read the main thread just black dragon's post.
That's obviously sketchy.

 

[Spenny]

Why can't you be a genius 18-year old who has a ton of business handing out advice? Alexander was just 30 when he conquered the whole world. Arthur Schopenhauer wrote the World as Will & Representation when he was just 29. Hannibal Barca was wiping the floor with the Roman armies through Italy when he was just 26 years old. (Imagine him thinking, I have no business leading these older commanders who are 2-3x my age and have 2-3x my experience. It's so immoral of me to lead all these people to their deaths).

That's what I don't get. The youth of today sells themselves short. If I was 18, and I wanted to be a coach, damn, I'd be the best coach on the planet. I'd work 24/7 on it. I'd read everything. It's precisely BECAUSE you are young, that you deserve the conquer the world. Old grandpas struggle to conquer their farts, much less the world.

Fair enough, perhaps it was a limiting belief, but I knew deep down I was better than this, and I'd run a grift. Anyone with any chops would look at me as such, and my reputation would have been stained. I didn't want to take that risk.

I think the difference between these great conquerors and an 18-year-old with a ton of business handing out advice is, again, experience. These people have done it; they lead the armies, strategise, and get results.

Age doesn't matter when there are results.

18-year-old me had only a good physique to go off of & a lot of confidence - I could have easily built an audience just on that. I know it would have been hollow.

And this is precisely my point - the only business these people have run is mentoring, they may have very little business acumen, and then they hand out business advice. Sure, they'd know the basics, but it seems backwards.

Extra Edit Thought: Nobody listens to anyone without a track record.

Why do people even listen to me? Seriously. I may not have the age, but people glance at my Value/Post Ratio, they see I've got a couple of GOLD Threads, they read it & they think, "Hmmm, this guy has been vetted, and people like him - he must have something good to say". It's a halo effect. I've got results. It doesn't mean what I say is correct or if anything I'm doing is right, but we have difficulties overcoming that potent reputation.

Some of the worst blabbers I've heard come out of people's mouths are from those with colossal status, and people eat it up for breakfast, lunch & dinner.

18-year-old me would have had to do some severe posturing to differentiate myself. PERFECT angles of my physique, maybe an expensive watch here or there, perhaps a wad of cash - then "BUY MY COACHING TO BE LIKE ME" directly after.

We're back to where we started—selling half-baked courses backed by an image that isn't even real.

 

[Emperor7]

Fair enough, perhaps it was a limiting belief, but I knew deep down I was better than this, and I'd run a grift. Anyone with any chops would look at me as such, and my reputation would have been stained. I didn't want to take that risk.

I think the difference between these great conquerors and an 18-year-old with a ton of business handing out advice is, again, experience. These people have done it; they lead the armies, strategise, and get results.

Age doesn't matter when there are results.

18-year-old me had only a good physique to go off of & a lot of confidence - I could have easily built an audience just on that. I know it would have been hollow.

And this is precisely my point - the only business these people have run is mentoring, they may have very little business acumen, and then they hand out business advice. Sure, they'd know the basics, but it seems backwards.

Word

 

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[Black_Dragon43]

Fair enough, perhaps it was a limiting belief, but I knew deep down I was better than this, and I'd run a grift. Anyone with any chops would look at me as such, and my reputation would have been stained. I didn't want to take that risk.

I think the difference between these great conquerors and an 18-year-old with a ton of business handing out advice is, again, experience. These people have done it; they lead the armies, strategise, and get results.

Age doesn't matter when there are results.

18-year-old me had only a good physique to go off of & a lot of confidence - I could have easily built an audience just on that. I know it would have been hollow.

And this is precisely my point - the only business these people have run is mentoring, they may have very little business acumen, and then they hand out business advice. Sure, they'd know the basics, but it seems backwards.

I'd say it's only a grift if you run it like one. The reason why so many people are desperate with the problems that a coach aims to solve is because those problems don't really have a solution yet. Nobody knows how to really, definitively solve them.

Even the solutions of so-called experts, like professional therapists, are only tentative. They don't always get results, maybe in some cases, they usually don't get results.

So if your only concern is getting the money, and you have no interest in improving the way the problem is solved, and the results people get, then yes, it's a grift. But if you're actually dedicated to better understanding the problem and creating better solutions, I don't think it's a grift.

Remember, everyone starts without any experience. In school, I never studied. I learned everything I had to learn by helping the other students learn it. They'd ask for my help, and I'd figure it out, help them, and then I knew it. If you are thorough in what you do, then you will identify new problems, and you become an expert by beginning to solve those problems. It doesn't matter if they are your problems, or someone else's.

 

[Aidan04]

Why can't you be a genius 18-year old who has a ton of business handing out advice? Alexander was just 30 when he conquered the whole world.

Off topic, but it helps to know the perspective and context of history when talking about Alexander.

Everyone loves to say that he conquered most of the known world by 30, but in actuality this wasn't really the case.

He didn't really hold onto all this land. After he died, Macedon/Greece lost all of this land within a few years because they lacked the resources or planning to defend it.

He wasn't leading Rome. He wasn't Ceasar. Rome took eons to build and maintain and fortify, just like any empire.

In reality, Alexander was a spoiled brat who just so happened to have the best military in the world at the time thanks to his dad. Alex inherited this when his dad died and decided to go curb stomp everyone weaker, just to lose all of the land.

He was no better than the Mongols.

 

[Spenny]

I'd say it's only a grift if you run it like one. The reason why so many people are desperate with the problems that a coach aims to solve is because those problems don't really have a solution yet. Nobody knows how to really, definitively solve them.

Even the solutions of so-called experts, like professional therapists, are only tentative. They don't always get results, maybe in some cases, they usually don't get results.

So if your only concern is getting the money, and you have no interest in improving the way the problem is solved, and the results people get, then yes, it's a grift. But if you're actually dedicated to better understanding the problem and creating better solutions, I don't think it's a grift.

Remember, everyone starts without any experience. In school, I never studied. I learned everything I had to learn by helping the other students learn it. They'd ask for my help, and I'd figure it out, help them, and then I knew it. If you are thorough in what you do, then you will identify new problems, and you become an expert by beginning to solve those problems. It doesn't matter if they are your problems, or someone else's.

I agree - I've just experienced & seen a lot of people making a quick buck in this industry, especially on YouTube. I do wonder if they're really there for people's problems or to sell people on how good they are, then convince them of how good they were as a coach.

Oh, and apologies, I edited the end of my post just after you posted your response!

 

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[Oden]

It's all a pyramid scheme. I see absolutely 0 evedence of re-orders or proof that these people actually got results. I'm surprised you found people desperate enough for this!

What the F*ck are you actually selling?

You do know this is illegal right?

I'm genuinly curious: which law(s) is he breaking?

I agree with the others. A few days ago I saw a "life coach" on Youtube, he couldn't be more than 15-16 years old. His videos were about starting businesses, how to quit porn, how to get women and all that stuff. I don't know if I should laugh or cry.

 

[Aidan04]

I'm genuinly curious: which law(s) is he breaking?

I agree with the others. A few days ago I saw a "life coach" on Youtube, he couldn't be more than 15-16 years old. His videos were about starting businesses, how to quit porn, how to get women and all that stuff. I don't know if I should laugh or cry.

In most countries, this can be viewed as fraud, a scam, or a Ponzi scheme, and if it's not at least illegal, it's highly immoral and unethical, tarnishing your reputation.

Now I doubt he would get arrested unless the numbers climbed high enough (he has been making thousands off this though), but I'm sure if the platform he's doing this on found out, it would be immediately taken down.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

This is why culture is in a serious state of decay...

• Obese people are dispensing fitness advice...
• Trainers with no training experience are trying to train...
• Coaches with no on-the-field experience are coaching...
• Broke people are teaching you how to get rich...
• Unhealthy people are convincing healthy people its OK to be unhealthy as long as you convince yourself to be OK with what you see in the mirror...

Instead of teaching from a strong position of earned wisdom, people teach from the weak position of inexperience and unearned knowledge, borrowed stolen from those who already put in the work.

The short-cuts never end.

But some ancient emperor from the 3rd century conquered the world at age 30.

OK.

 

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[Black_Dragon43]

This is why culture is in a serious state of decay...

• Obese people are dispensing fitness advice...
• Trainers with no training experience are trying to train...
• Coaches with no on-the-field experience are coaching...
• Broke people are teaching you how to get rich...
• Unhealthy people are convincing healthy people its OK to be unhealthy as long as you convince yourself to be OK with what you see in the mirror...

Instead of teaching from a strong position of earned wisdom, people teach from the weak position of inexperience and unearned knowledge, borrowed stolen from those who already put in the work.

The short-cuts never end.

But some ancient emperor from the 3rd century conquered the world at age 30.

OK.

There are different kinds of gurus...

There's the creative genius: this is someone like Richard Bandler who creates something new (NLP).

There's the great synthesizer: this is someone like St. Thomas Aquinas from the Middle Ages who studies the entire knowledge of humanity and puts it head to head.

There's the promoter: this is someone like Tony Robbins who takes NLP and brings it to the masses.

I think the market fixes itself – the weak teachers lose out to the stronger ones in the long run. But a mixture is needed.

"Stealing" knowledge can be very valuable. A good thief of knowledge will take your original creation, and make something better out of it. Usually the thief is a very good synthesizer – someone who can theoretically break knowledge down and arrange it in a more coherent, more comprehensive form. It's rare for a creative genius to have this ability. Schopenhauer was a synthesizer, while Kant was a creative genius.

Sometimes "stealing" knowledge is done by a promoter. Jeremy Miner takes Michael Oliver's Natural Selling and sells it as NEPQ to the masses banking on his "practitioner" status. The promoter may be a good practitioner – he may have experience, credibility, and so on. But so what? The knowledge he disseminates is an INFERIOR version to that disseminated by the creative genius, therefore what he's doing is immoral.

Imo this latter kind of theft is problematic. The synthesizer adds massive value by making the original theory more comprehensive and more thorough. The promoter merely takes something that isn't his, due to his limited understanding, butchers it and then takes it to the masses.

Jeremy Miner is, according to the standards of this thread, a practitioner. And a relatively successful one too. Does that mean that he should be teaching others how to sell? No – because he sucks as a teacher. His theoretical understanding is weak. A teacher must be a supremely good theorist first and foremost. Someone who is capable to understand and manipulate concepts to convey complex ideas. Jeremy has taken the simplicity of Michael's teaching, butchered it, called it a different name, and now markets it. Does it really matter that he's a great salesperson himself? No.

So I present Jeremy Miner as the perfect example of the degradation of our culture. A practitioner with solid experience, trying to do something that he was never made for (teach).

 

[Lex DeVille]

I don't have a problem with coaching. Coaches play an important role in many aspects of life. For me, it's a frustration with the mindset behind the choice to call yourself a coach when the intent is anything but coaching.

A coach can build a nice coaching business actually coaching, even as a beginner. The numbers are there, even as a solo coach. At $200/50min x 5 clients a day x 5 days per week you earn almost a quarter of a million per year. Bump it up to 8 clients per day and you're closing in on $400k/yr. That's a one man/woman operation.

Once you book up your client base, maybe you create a training program. Now you train some coaches in your coaching methods. You bring them on under you. You bring more clients in. You help your coaches make money. You take a cut of everything they earn.

As you grow and gain more clients and more experience and more feedback and reviews, maybe you turn your in-house training into a course and offer some kind of certification in your unique approaches to automate more sales. Or, maybe you expand into more locations and refine your systems first then franchise the business.

At this point, you have serious coaching and entrepreneurial chops, even if you started from scratch. More importantly, you have a real business that gets people really good results.

But that's not what this thread is about.

This thread is about 20-year-olds who skip all of the above because some marketer (coach) told them if they just sell 10 people per month into a group mastermind at $10,000 following their 5-step-system, then they'll be a millionaire this year. The best part is, it doesn't matter if their customers get good results or not because the burden is on the customer to get those results. Also, since they need to build up confidence, they should start by offering their "coaching program" to those closest to them. Mom and dad, brother and sister (often the same people they were asked by the marketer to borrow money from to pay for the expensive "coaching" mastermind they joined).

Anyway, my frustration is with the money-chasing shortcut mindset. Not with coaching itself.