Self-Empathy vs Mental Toughness - Which One Do You Find More Useful?

[Silverfox148]

Fascinating discussion, read the whole thread, had not seen it on the forum.

Each human life is different and unique in its own ways so the below just applies to my experience.

I've been going through this whole process of switching my mindset/view of life from a mostly "mental toughness" prism to of "Self-Empathy/Self-Healing", it is a lifelong effort I suspect. Unfortunately, I suspect a lot of the "mental toughness" folks have had significant childhood trauma such as myself(Goggins, Musk, S.Jobs, W. Buffet). I can listen to David Goggins/Jocko for hours and not get bored, their message resonates right down to my core essence/cells/brain. My trauma was not enough for whatever reason for me to start cutting on myself and other extreme stuff you hear about(I suspect this was due to cultural influences), but over time I have come to see other patterns in my behavior that had just as bad effects on myself/worse than if I had been cutting, it just wasn't visible and was socially acceptable(workaholism, academics, exercise, high performance, mental toughness, etc).

The problem for some as it was with me and I suspect it is with Goggins is that "mental toughness" is just an addiction to not dealing with the trauma and the very uncomfortable emotions that are deep within us due to that trauma(if you suffered childhood trauma, confronting it is one of the hardest but most rewarding things you will do in your life). Prior to my awakening there would be periods where I would exercise multiple times a day, long runs, weightlifting, killing it at my high paying job, mentor others, work with my kids, etc. Sounds great, right? You were killing it man, you were winning at life!

Wrong, if I was killing anything, it was myself/spirit, I now realize I was just keeping myself/mind(via heavy engineering work) busy/distracted and keeping the endorphins up(via exercise) in order not to fall into depression/face my internal demons. This is a valid strategy in that, it does help you survive and fits nicely with the expectations of high performance in the USA, heck it worked for me for a solid 22+ years before I even began to see cracks in it. I managed to climb from a financially dirt poor experience with my dad earning less than 14K a year in the 90s and me arriving in the USA at 7 years old from Mexico not knowing a lick of English and experiencing significant trauma at home/school/etc to graduating college with top grades/honors/recognitions and a high paying job by the time I was 22. Almost 100% of that was driven by "mental toughness/get hard", a great immigrant success story right?

Wrong, I was dead inside and didn't even know it(your mind/ego is that good at lying to you/creating a story for you). I have always been introspective so once the cracks in the foundation started to show up, I became interested and something inside me told me to follow those cracks and see where they led which ultimately brought me to "Self-Empathy/Self-Healing" which has been a multi year process but the biggest gift/awakening , I could not have imagined that such freedom was possible.

If y'all want to hear more about the awakening part let me know, it's a long road and I don't want to bore readers unnecessarily, but can share the rest of my story if it adds value.

 

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[Black_Dragon43]

If y'all want to hear more about the awakening part let me know, it's a long road and I don't want to bore readers unnecessarily, but can share the rest of my story if it adds value.

Would love to hear more! Also if you can share some of the resources that helped you on your journey!

 

[SPM_ENT]

Fascinating discussion, read the whole thread, had not seen it on the forum.

Each human life is different and unique in its own ways so the below just applies to my experience.

I've been going through this whole process of switching my mindset/view of life from a mostly "mental toughness" prism to of "Self-Empathy/Self-Healing", it is a lifelong effort I suspect. Unfortunately, I suspect a lot of the "mental toughness" folks have had significant childhood trauma such as myself(Goggins, Musk, S.Jobs, W. Buffet). I can listen to David Goggins/Jocko for hours and not get bored, their message resonates right down to my core essence/cells/brain. My trauma was not enough for whatever reason for me to start cutting on myself and other extreme stuff you hear about(I suspect this was due to cultural influences), but over time I have come to see other patterns in my behavior that had just as bad effects on myself/worse than if I had been cutting, it just wasn't visible and was socially acceptable(workaholism, academics, exercise, high performance, mental toughness, etc).

The problem for some as it was with me and I suspect it is with Goggins is that "mental toughness" is just an addiction to not dealing with the trauma and the very uncomfortable emotions that are deep within us due to that trauma(if you suffered childhood trauma, confronting it is one of the hardest but most rewarding things you will do in your life). Prior to my awakening there would be periods where I would exercise multiple times a day, long runs, weightlifting, killing it at my high paying job, mentor others, work with my kids, etc. Sounds great, right? You were killing it man, you were winning at life!

Wrong, if I was killing anything, it was myself/spirit, I now realize I was just keeping myself/mind(via heavy engineering work) busy/distracted and keeping the endorphins up(via exercise) in order not to fall into depression/face my internal demons. This is a valid strategy in that, it does help you survive and fits nicely with the expectations of high performance in the USA, heck it worked for me for a solid 22+ years before I even began to see cracks in it. I managed to climb from a financially dirt poor experience with my dad earning less than 14K a year in the 90s and me arriving in the USA at 7 years old from Mexico not knowing a lick of English and experiencing significant trauma at home/school/etc to graduating college with top grades/honors/recognitions and a high paying job by the time I was 22. Almost 100% of that was driven by "mental toughness/get hard", a great immigrant success story right?

Wrong, I was dead inside and didn't even know it(your mind/ego is that good at lying to you/creating a story for you). I have always been introspective so once the cracks in the foundation started to show up, I became interested and something inside me told me to follow those cracks and see where they led which ultimately brought me to "Self-Empathy/Self-Healing" which has been a multi year process but the biggest gift/awakening , I could not have imagined that such freedom was possible.

If y'all want to hear more about the awakening part let me know, it's a long road and I don't want to bore readers unnecessarily, but can share the rest of my story if it adds value.

Totally agree with what you're saying. Goggins, while being much mentally tougher than me, seems like he's literally running from something. What's the point? To be tougher just because? I'm sure he gets his high from overcoming himself so whatever makes him happy. If he is indeed happy that's all that matters.

I went through similar issues and started on the "mental toughness" path. I started companies, woke up early, hit the gym, ate right, didn't drink and it was F*cking terrible there was no time for me to do the things I wanted... mostly because I had no idea what I actually wanted and just needed to prove to everyone I was successful. I look back and there was no enjoyment in life. I made some money but ultimately I didn't have the endurance to keep going because I didn't know what motivated me to become "successful."

I've been on the "Self-empathy" path in analysis for the last 2 years and in the beginning, it was the most difficult thing I had ever done. I had to confront my identity which caused me to make different choices and almost lost everything (mostly just money) I had built. Now moving forward on this self-empathy path it's still difficult but I'm enjoying the things I do, having fun, and making more money and it's way easier and less stressfull. It's great and then sometimes it's not. Having been through my versions of both sides "Self Empathy" is the way to go for me.

 

[Silverfox148]

Would love to hear more! Also if you can share some of the resources that helped you on your journey!

BD,

Part of me deep inside somewhere always knew I was not on my true path and I needed to get on it, but my ego/intelligence would not allow it. You ego/intelligence is very very powerful and cannot be defeated rationally with logic as most of us try to do, it is the king of logic and rationality, you will never ever defeat it. The only way to get around your ego/intelligence is via tapping into your emotions as the ego/intelligence doesn't like to play in that realm, they are actually separate physical structures in your brain, this is your path to freedom. This was actually revealed to me by my mind during the first Ayuhasca ceremony I participated in over and over it was reveled to me in a comedic/laughter/jester type way, last year. I understood the message rationally at the time but I didn't understand it at the emotional level until months later. I had never really studied the brain at all so I was recently shocked to learn that the main emotional part of the brain is separate from our intelligence/pre frontal cortex(PFC) part of our brain.

This is actually the problem with Ekhart Tolle/Be Here Now/ Ram Dass/Spirituality genre type books, they are presenting very true and accurate information but it is in a book form, a book is a rational thing and mainly processed by your ego/intelligence/PFC so it just filters it to fit it's own needs. Unless you are tapped into your emotions these books don't really mean jack and can't really help you. I know because I tried these books before I was awake emotionally and they had little to no effect, part of me knew that stuff was true but I couldn't benefit from it. I have shelves full of books on Spiritually/Philosophy/Psychology to prove it.

What you need is something to awaken you emotionally, you need a key. The key for me started a few months prior to Covid in 2020 , it was my left hand going numb, it scared the crap out of me. It happened at work and I thought it was asleep but after shaking it for a while it was still asleep/numb/tingling. I thought I was having a stroke/heart attack and went into some type of panic/anxiety attack on the spot and I drove myself to the Hospital , it was the first time I had been to an emergency room(I was 33 years old). Looking back, it was the first time in probably 20 years that my emotions had taken control in a complex situation and not logic. I checked into the ER and was waiting in the waiting area to be seen but then I calmed down and my intelligence/ego took control again I left without being seen. This was important because I had always refused to go to ERs even when I should have, (broken/badly sprained wrist, bad automobile accident,etc). It was a watershed moment for me looking back.

Covid kicked in and the numbness continued on and off but my emotions were surfacing due to high work stress among other issues outside my control. While working from home on my daughters birthday I thought my cheek and my left foot also went numb/tingling. I thought stroke for sure and went to the ER and drove myself in and got examined. I got a bunch of tests, CT scans/MRI Scans, etc. They found nothing obviously wrong, the neurologist said maybe I had MS, etc. Over the whole of 2020 and the first half of 2021 I spent time in hospitals/drs/cardiologists/multiple MRIs and nobody could find nothing wrong. The anxiety/emotions were on a slow boil and would periodically surface in a myriad of ways some very complex. At the height I remember distinctly even alcohol would not make a dent unless I got completely hammered but some part of me was resistant to going on anti anxiety meds or using alcohol or any other long term chemical to fix(hide) this.

One of my sisters intuitively knew I was going through a tough time even though I hadn't shared much with my extended family. She had gone to an Ayuhasca retreat in Mexico and it had been very positive for her. I had been invited multiple times but I didn't really believe in Ayuhasca. I was extremely skeptical of this stuff and frankly had a view that it was some type of scam. Fast forward to October 2021 and I have run out of western medicine options(in my mind), and the wide range of symptoms literally has to be some anxiety/mind based issue, I am also having bad migraines after never suffering from headaches before, one lasted 2 weeks on and off(mostly on).

I agreed to attend a one night ceremony in Mexico in October 2021 and it was a life changing experience for me. I cannot and will not attempt to describe what happened, only to say that it was life changing and positive. I felt very peaceful for a few weeks but none of my actual behaviors changed , it was not a magic pill that solved anything short term but I believe had good long term effects.

I want to say that I firmly believe that I could have stopped all these symptoms if I had simply doubled down "mental toughness/get hard" and started a harder running/weightlifting program and doubled down at work. Looking back that's what I had been doing since I was 7 years old when I first came to the US, when kids would make fun of me on the playground for not knowing English/being poor/stupid/etc., I was so ashamed looking back. Something in my intuition told me to stay in the emotions and not retreat into mental toughness/get hard/alcohol/anxiety meds, etc.

There is more to the story but I think this is enough for now, as for some of the resources:

Amazon.com

https://www.amazon.com/dp/0143127748/?tag=tff-amazonparser-20

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