[Progress thread] Building out a crypto mine, step-by-step - AMA

[GlobalWealth]

A few updates:

Earlier this week I visited the property where we are building out the mine. It seems the weather put a delay on the project.

The electricians dug the trench to bury the high voltage cable we are running from the transformer to the building, but then it rained for 3 days straight so they didn't fill in the trench. This of course meant that the contractor couldn't get into the building to deliver the materials....uggh.

So finally on Monday of this week, the contractor was able to get to the building and deliver the materials. I arrived as he was unloading pallets of block.

I'm planning another surprise visit next week to push and prod them a bit more. Now it seems we are looking at the first week of September before we can get into the building.

The sooner the better as both my business partner and I have mining hardware running at home which is quite loud and starting to push our S.O. relationship boundaries....lol

Also, my oldest son decided at the very last moment to come work for us. He was literally supposed to move into his dorm the next day and called me to say he deferred college admission and wanted to move to Estonia.

What a horrible situation for him. Eighteen years old, living in a college town in Estonia with the world's hottest girls, living in a very nice apartment in the center of the city, making more money than the dean of the university.... yeah, I'm a little jealous...

He is currently in KS right now training with the GPU mining operation and packing up our mining hardware to ship to Estonia....trial by fire...

This has been very challenging. We must package all the GPU's, motherboards, risers, PSU's, memory cards, etc. in static free packaging, put in huge gaylord boxes on pallets, and ship to Estonia via air freight.

He also must itemize every single item going into those boxes, create a bill of lading, an invoice, pack with EU certification documentation and manage shipping these items. All for an 18 year old kid fresh out of high school.

He'll get more education in 6 months than in 4 years of college.

Based on our shipping schedules, within 30 days maximum, we will have our facility up and running with 12 Innosilicon A9's, 12 Bitmain Z9 minis, 25 8-GPU mining rigs, and 19 12-GPU mining rigs.

We will mine ZenCash with the A9's, Zcash with the Z9's and will convert the GPU rigs to Monero.

Based on currently calculations, we would be around $30k/month run rate in profit (in USD terms) at the end of September at the latest.

 

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[MTF]

He was literally supposed to move into his dorm the next day and called me to say he deferred college admission and wanted to move to Estonia.

Hope that deferral turns into a definite no!

He'll get more education in 6 months than in 4 years of college.

For sure, particularly with the Estonian girls

 

[garyfritz]

Yeah, can I come work for you Dad? I want a piece of that $30k/mo and the Estonian girls!!

So you expect to throw off $30k/mo in profits within a month of going live in your new facility. That is awesome. But... that profit's not all coming from cheap power and tax savings, is it? Why wouldn't this work, albeit with lower profit margins, in a cool location in the US or Canada? I live in Colorado, and there are plenty of cool locations up in the mountains. Plenty of places that might give you free floor space in exchange for heat. Are there legal or political reasons why it just won't work in the US?

 

[GlobalWealth]

Hope that deferral turns into a definite no!



For sure, particularly with the Estonian girls

Yeah. A 19 year old living in Estonia making money..... Not a horrible situation.

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[GlobalWealth]

Yeah, can I come work for you Dad? I want a piece of that $30k/mo and the Estonian girls!!

So you expect to throw off $30k/mo in profits within a month of going live in your new facility. That is awesome. But... that profit's not all coming from cheap power and tax savings, is it? Why wouldn't this work, albeit with lower profit margins, in a cool location in the US or Canada? I live in Colorado, and there are plenty of cool locations up in the mountains. Plenty of places that might give you free floor space in exchange for heat. Are there legal or political reasons why it just won't work in the US?

Based on projections (lots of big ifs in crypto), we expect 50-60k/m within 3 months.

"IF" all goes well, we should be around 200k/m within 18 months as long as we reinvest some profits back into hardware.

Of course you could make a mining operation work in the US if you had a cheap location and reasonable priced power.

I personally wouldn't do it just because of US regulations though.

Plus Estonian girls are way hotter than in Colorado.... Lol

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[garyfritz]

Of course you could make a mining operation work in the US if you had a cheap location and reasonable priced power.
I personally wouldn't do it just because of US regulations though.

OK. I would like to understand this better -- I'm still considering a mini-mine in my (cool) basement. Route the hot air outside in summer, vent it into the heating ducts in the winter. That way I would have basically zero-cost power during the heating season. My biggest challenge is summer power -- my utility has a higher-cost "summer tier" for everything past 500kWh/mo. In the winter my cost is about 10.6c/kWh, but that would be offset by reduced heating costs. In the summer the first 500kWh is about 9.4c/kWh, but everything after that (including 100% of my additional mining power) is 13.8c/kWh. So my year-round average would be something like 7c/kWh -- not too bad.

And the location is really cheap because I know the landlord.

Can you discuss what US regulations bother you? I suspect I'm not the only one who's interested. For me, a less-than-ideal regulatory environment may be a lesser concern than the many headaches of trying to set up in another country.

 

[GPM]

Gary, just go do some research and build yourself a 7-13 GPU mining rig, or get an ASIC miner and then go from there. Best way to learn about it is just to go for it.

 

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[garyfritz]

I'm considering an A9 Zmaster -- $3500 for 50kSols/sec, current ~ $50/day profit, payback in about 90 days according to My Crypto Buddy. But that calculator also says there would only be about $4k total profit after a year, with profits growing pretty slowly at that point. 100%+ in a year is nothing to throw rocks at, but it's not the $1500/mo you might guess from the current daily profits. Due to increasing difficulty, it works out to more like $333/mo after 12 months, with profits growing about $150/mo (and declining) at that point.

But "jumping in and building a mining rig" doesn't give me any insights into the regulations GW doesn't like. Neither does googling -- I only learned that US residents can't participate in ICOs. That's why I asked GW.

@GlobalWealth, can you share the source where you got your Z9's so cheap? Half-price miners would make a big difference in the profit calculation.

 

[GlobalWealth]

OK. I would like to understand this better -- I'm still considering a mini-mine in my (cool) basement. Route the hot air outside in summer, vent it into the heating ducts in the winter. That way I would have basically zero-cost power during the heating season. My biggest challenge is summer power -- my utility has a higher-cost "summer tier" for everything past 500kWh/mo. In the winter my cost is about 10.6c/kWh, but that would be offset by reduced heating costs. In the summer the first 500kWh is about 9.4c/kWh, but everything after that (including 100% of my additional mining power) is 13.8c/kWh. So my year-round average would be something like 7c/kWh -- not too bad.

And the location is really cheap because I know the landlord.

Can you discuss what US regulations bother you? I suspect I'm not the only one who's interested. For me, a less-than-ideal regulatory environment may be a lesser concern than the many headaches of trying to set up in another country.

Tax reporting and filing is a huge concern in the US.

The tax department wants to tax mining at the time of coin production.

This is impossible to effectively report. They consider mining to be a taxable event.

This is equivalent to taxing a corn farmer at harvest, not at market.

The accounting nightmares alone aren't worth the hassle.

Of course you could not report and take the risk, but then if you ever want to convert to fiat to buy a big ticket item, then you are flagged.

Now consider you are taxed at the point of coin production at your income tax level.

Then you buy something with coin or convert to fiat, you are taxes again at capital gains rates.

If you have a capital loss you are limited on how much loss you can take to offset your income.

In other words, you get taxed when you mine as income, again when you sell a capital gains, but losses cannot fully offset any gains.... Which in crypto is inevitable.



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[GlobalWealth]

Gary, just go do some research and build yourself a 7-13 GPU mining rig, or get an ASIC miner and then go from there. Best way to learn about it is just to go for it.

I wouldn't build a gpu rig, but definitely agree to buy an asic or 2 to give it a shot.

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[GlobalWealth]

I'm considering an A9 Zmaster -- $3500 for 50kSols/sec, current ~ $50/day profit, payback in about 90 days according to My Crypto Buddy. But that calculator also says there would only be about $4k total profit after a year, with profits growing pretty slowly at that point. 100%+ in a year is nothing to throw rocks at, but it's not the $1500/mo you might guess from the current daily profits. Due to increasing difficulty, it works out to more like $333/mo after 12 months, with profits growing about $150/mo (and declining) at that point.

But "jumping in and building a mining rig" doesn't give me any insights into the regulations GW doesn't like. Neither does googling -- I only learned that US residents can't participate in ICOs. That's why I asked GW.

@GlobalWealth, can you share the source where you got your Z9's so cheap? Half-price miners would make a big difference in the profit calculation.

I just bought from the manufacturer. Nothing special.

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[garyfritz]

In other words, you get taxed when you mine as income, again when you sell a capital gains, but losses cannot fully offset any gains.... Which in crypto is inevitable.

Ugh. That DOES suck. I'm not even sure how you record the mining income, since don't pools dribble profits out to you continuously? You can't say "OK today I mined one coin at a price of $X."

And I assume those nasty regs are based based on citizenship, not on where you're mining. The long arm of the IRS stretches around the world. If you're a citizen they're still going to want those taxes, regardless of where you mine.

I just bought from the manufacturer. Nothing special.

Huh. But at the time you said you bought the Z9 mini's for $850, I'm pretty sure Bitmain was still asking $1999. NOW they want $850, but that's almost 3 weeks later, and Z9 mini profitability has dropped 30% since then. And presumably you paid $850 well before you said so, on 8/6.

 

[GlobalWealth]

Ugh. That DOES suck. I'm not even sure how you record the mining income, since don't pools dribble profits out to you continuously? You can't say "OK today I mined one coin at a price of $X."

And I assume those nasty regs are based based on citizenship, not on where you're mining. The long arm of the IRS stretches around the world. If you're a citizen they're still going to want those taxes, regardless of where you mine.


Huh. But at the time you said you bought the Z9 mini's for $850, I'm pretty sure Bitmain was still asking $1999. NOW they want $850, but that's almost 3 weeks later, and Z9 mini profitability has dropped 30% since then. And presumably you paid $850 well before you said so, on 8/6.

I bought the z9 minis direct from bitmain on June 18th for 850/e.


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[GlobalWealth]

Ugh. That DOES suck. I'm not even sure how you record the mining income, since don't pools dribble profits out to you continuously? You can't say "OK today I mined one coin at a price of $X."

And I assume those nasty regs are based based on citizenship, not on where you're mining. The long arm of the IRS stretches around the world. If you're a citizen they're still going to want those taxes, regardless of where you mine.


Huh. But at the time you said you bought the Z9 mini's for $850, I'm pretty sure Bitmain was still asking $1999. NOW they want $850, but that's almost 3 weeks later, and Z9 mini profitability has dropped 30% since then. And presumably you paid $850 well before you said so, on 8/6.

You are correct, mining pools drip out your payout all throughout the day, multiple times per day.

That means you need to account for the coin at the valuation at that time. The accounting would be a nightmare.

As for the taxation issues, we are an Estonian company with clear nexus.

I am personally subject to US tax rules, but not my company.

My company would be considered a CFC, but the income would not be classified as subpart F due to our nexus.


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[GlobalWealth]

Hope that deferral turns into a definite no!



For sure, particularly with the Estonian girls

I also hope it becomes a no.

But the university where he will be living is one of the best in the world for a technical education so if he decides to do uni maybe he will just do it there (they have a bachelor program in science and technology taught in English).

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[Zhyna]

Thanks so much GlobalWealth for giving us an insight to your mining operatation. Its really good to get a different perspective on how people are running their own, especially with an international venture like yours.

I've just had to switch off 10 of my 1080 ti's that I was running. Im in AUS and with high electricity its just not even profitable in this current market and difficulty.

How is profitability for you at this current market stage? Are you still in full operation?

 

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[GlobalWealth]

How is profitability for you at this current market stage? Are you still in full operation?

Hi @Zhyna, if you will note from earlier posts in the thread, we are still in the process of building this out. I have several miners running at my home and my biz partner's home at the moment. We should be moving into our space next week. Update post coming up...

 

[GlobalWealth]

Update:

It's been awhile since my last update. It has been very busy getting this mine up and running. Imagine that, a new business that requires a lot of hard work..... go figure

We have shipped out all of your GPU mining rigs from the US going to Estonia. They are en route as I type and should arrive late next week or early the next week.

We have 19 rigs with 12 GPU's and 25 rigs with 8 GPU's. Total of 428 GPU's. We are running all RX580's.

This was a monumental task. My son handled this job exceptionally well. He went to the mine in the US to get trained on GPU mining, then disassemble, package and ship out the equipment.

In all, there were 4 full pallets with a total weight of nearly 3000lbs. Yeah, shipping was not cheap. Nor was it easy.

My advice for anyone attempting to ship a large shipment of electronics to Europe would be to get every single detail of every single component you are shipping. Label everything. Make sure it has the CE stickers on every component. Get the CE certificates for every component. Create very, very details invoice and packing lists. This was a huge mess and a huge hassle. Hoping it all pays off.

My son has been doing a lot of research on GPU mining and it seems right now, Monero is the most profitable option. At current rates, it is about 50% greater profitability than Ethereum with the same hardware.

Another interesting option is the Golem network. I am still researching that, but if you are GPU mining this may be an option for you. Basically you are "renting" your GPU processor for video editing work and get paid in Golem token. Whether you are a fan of Golem or a long term believer, who knows. But at least you can trade the coins for something else if profitability is good. Once we get the hardware in Estonia we will be testing it.

Between what we have running at home and sitting in customs as we speak, we have 12 Inno A9's and 12 Bitmain Z9 minis. We have 6 A9's running at the moment. I'm not plugging in anymore at home at risk of catching my house on fire (yes, that is a risk for all of you that think you can just plug in miners at home - the power consumption is way more than home wiring can handle).

This week I also bought 8 Bitmain L3+ LTC miners. I wasn't really interested in mining LTC, but I found a local guy who tried to get a crypto mining reseller business going but the coin prices tanked and he was desperate to unload equipment for cash.

I paid eur250 per L3+ including the PSU. They are all brand new in the box. Right now you can buy them from Bitmain direct for about usd300 with PSU plus about usd 100 for shipping, or about usd400.

So I save about usd100 per machine and have them in my hand today. LTC currently is not profitable to mine, but the difficulty right now is negative so based on projections using negative difficulty, they payoff for the hardware should be around 4-5 months.

Worst case scenario, I can at least reuse the PSU's, which cost about eur200 anyway. So it was a low risk investment.

The building is not yet finished and I'm getting pretty pissed at this point. The electricity is all done with the work on the transformer, new cables run to building and a 1000amp power panel. The last step is the electricians are running the cables to the mining area on Monday and Tuesday so I will be ready to plug in.

Unfortunately, the contractor has not yet finished the walls or the floor. I am going there again Monday and Tuesday to hold his hand and make sure he doesn't take 3 hour lunches it seems.

Regardless, it looks like we are plugging in miners in the property this week. Once the walls are up and the floor is ready, I will take some photos and post them so you all can see how the build out looks.

 

[GlobalWealth]

Some lessons learned.

Familiarize yourself with the site rapidtables.com.

You will use this often to calculate the amp draw of your hardware. For example, an Innosilicon A9 overclocked needs about 1.7amps using a .8 power factor.

A Bitmain L3+ overclocked at 462mhz needs about 2.5amps using a .8 power factor.

Our 8 GPU mining rigs need about 3.5amps and the 12 GPU rigs need about 4.4amps using a .8 power factor.

The Bitmain Z9 minis (not yet tested, but based on stated wattage) need about 1.3amps using a .8 power factor.

Electricity infrastructure is BY FAR the biggest factor to work out. Do not underestimate this.

Do not assume you can just plug in miners and you make money.

For example;

At this point, I have 504amps available. My power panel is rated for 1000amps. I have 30, 3-phase 50amp circuits. Monday I am running 8, 32amp cables into 8, 32amp PDU's. Each 32amp PDU has 4 16amp plugs.

Later I will run another 12+ 32am cables with 32amp PDU's.

If you do that math, 4, 16amp plugs on each 32amp PDU is 64 amps. That means you can only use 32amps so each of your 4 plugs cannot exceed 32amps combines, not the 64amps it is rated for. So you need to do a lot of math to determine what kind and how many miners you can plug into each plug. We will be using high voltage power strips plugged into the 32amp PDU, but most likely will only be able to plug in 3-4 miners per power strip depending on what kind of miner it is. We will also need to do some mixing and matching in order to balance out the power usasge.

If you have no idea what that means, I suggest some studying.

 

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[Raoul Duke]

Some lessons learned.

Familiarize yourself with the site rapidtables.com.

You will use this often to calculate the amp draw of your hardware. For example, an Innosilicon A9 overclocked needs about 1.7amps using a .8 power factor.

A Bitmain L3+ overclocked at 462mhz needs about 2.5amps using a .8 power factor.

Our 8 GPU mining rigs need about 3.5amps and the 12 GPU rigs need about 4.4amps using a .8 power factor.

The Bitmain Z9 minis (not yet tested, but based on stated wattage) need about 1.3amps using a .8 power factor.

Electricity infrastructure is BY FAR the biggest factor to work out. Do not underestimate this.

Do not assume you can just plug in miners and you make money.

For example;

At this point, I have 504amps available. My power panel is rated for 1000amps. I have 30, 3-phase 50amp circuits. Monday I am running 8, 32amp cables into 8, 32amp PDU's. Each 32amp PDU has 4 16amp plugs.

Later I will run another 12+ 32am cables with 32amp PDU's.

If you do that math, 4, 16amp plugs on each 32amp PDU is 64 amps. That means you can only use 32amps so each of your 4 plugs cannot exceed 32amps combines, not the 64amps it is rated for. So you need to do a lot of math to determine what kind and how many miners you can plug into each plug. We will be using high voltage power strips plugged into the 32amp PDU, but most likely will only be able to plug in 3-4 miners per power strip depending on what kind of miner it is. We will also need to do some mixing and matching in order to balance out the power usasge.

If you have no idea what that means, I suggest some studying.

Look, our very own Doctor Emmett Lathrop "Doc" Brown. Please! Be careful with that 1.21 gigwatts.

 

[garyfritz]

We have shipped out all of your GPU mining rigs from the US going to Estonia. They are en route as I type and should arrive late next week or early the next week.
In all, there were 4 full pallets with a total weight of nearly 3000lbs. Yeah, shipping was not cheap. Nor was it easy.

I was surprised you were doing this. I had the impression it was not worth starting up with GPUs, so why is it worth the expense and hassle of shipping them around the planet? I would have thought it would be more profitable to liquidate them locally for the best price you can get, then use the cash to buy current-gen miners.

Regardless, it looks like we are plugging in miners in the property this week.

Exciting! Good luck!

 

[JasonR]

Also, my oldest son decided at the very last moment to come work for us. He was literally supposed to move into his dorm the next day and called me to say he deferred college admission and wanted to move to Estonia.

I had a feeling this was going to happen! Very cool - looking forwarding to visiting the finished and operation later this winter. Burrr.

 

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[GlobalWealth]

I was surprised you were doing this. I had the impression it was not worth starting up with GPUs, so why is it worth the expense and hassle of shipping them around the planet? I would have thought it would be more profitable to liquidate them locally for the best price you can get, then use the cash to buy current-gen miners.

Exciting! Good luck!

We were on the fence about that.

Ultimately it came down to a couple of issues.

1. I don't live in the US so liquidating with be very, very difficult and logistically almost impossible.

2. Shipping cost is about $3k. We can recoup that fairly quickly depending on which coin we mine.

3. My son really wanted to play around with GPU mining and find the best option for the hardware so we thought we'd give him a shot with it.

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[GlobalWealth]

I had a feeling this was going to happen! Very cool - looking forwarding to visiting the finished and operation later this winter. Burrr.

We should be running this week.

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[Nigel B]

Posting to ensure I keep informed - @GlobalWealth - thanks for sharing.
Should have started this years ago - another IT guy with no excuse but distraction!

 

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[GlobalWealth]

Update:

What a crazy week. Fighting with contractors, fighting with customs, fighting with electricians.....

We finally have our power all sorted. This was a monumental task.

I have attached a rough outline of the power map I created for this project. This is not a complete diagram, but if you are interested in mining, this should give you some ideas.

Basically we have a transformer with 630A available. We have stepped it down to 505A on our side of the building.

From there, we have high power cables into the building going to a 1000A power panel. This was intentionally overbuilt since everything will run 24/7 and we wanted to keep it all cool.

Inside the power panel, we have 30 - 3 phase 50A circuits. That means each circuit has 150A. If you do the math, that is 1500A. Since we only have 505A available, this again was overbuilt on purpose.

Right now we have installed 8 - 32A cables on 8 of the circuits. This means we have a max of 32A available on each cable, or 256A. This is basically 50% of our capacity at this point.

Most likely I will install another 8-12 - 32A cables so we are spreading the 505A load across 16-20 cables.

At the end of each of these cables is a 32A PDU (power distribution unit) with 4 - 16A outlets. The PDU has a 16A circuit breaker giving us further redundancy for any power spikes or overheating.

So this mean we have 8 cables with 8 PDU's with 4 outlets each, or total 32 outlets.

Since each PDU is limited to 32A, we can only plug in up to that limit.

This week we plugged in our Innosilicon A9's, Bitmain L3+'s, and Bitmain Z9 minis.

The A9's are drawing about 2.6A each. The L3+'s are drawing about 3.1A each.

With the Z9's, we learned something really cool. You can actually use one PSU (power supply unit) for 2 Z9's (we order one for one, but that is good since we need more PSU's anyway).

When I plugged in one Z9 it was drawing 1.3A. But when I plugged in 2 Z9's in one PSU, it was 2.1A, so we got a little bonus....lol.

So based on these numbers, we can now determine how and where to plug in which machines into which outlets.

So at each 32A PDU we will plug in 4 16A power strips. This means each power strip is limited to 8A (on average). So we can plug in 2-4 miners per power strip, average of 3.

So going backwards, we will have 3 miners on each power strip, 4 power strips per PDU, or 12 miners per circuit.

At this point I only have 8 cables, so I am limited to 96 miners based on these numbers.

The contractors are finishing the construction in the next 2 days and on Monday I am finally plugging in all of our hardware in the space.

Right now in our possession we have the following:

• 12 Innosilicon A9's
• 12 Bitmain Z9 minis
• 8 Bitmain L3+'s

From here, we will use profits for the first few months to rebuy hardware so we anticipate being at 50-60 ASIC miners by end of January.

 

[GlobalWealth]

One interesting note about the Z9 minis. From Bitmain they are preset with a 500mhz frequency as default. Right now we are seeing a hashrate of about 11ksol/s at this rate.

I have figure out how to adjust the frequency and have been playing with it a bit. I tested 650mhz and saw around 15ksol/s.

At 500mhz, the power consumption for 2 machines on one PSU was 2.1A.

At 650mhz, the power consumption for 2 machines on one PSU was 3.1A.

Right now I have all the Z9's set to 500mhz since we are limited on power capacity in the space where they are plugged in....(ask me how I know the limits...lol).

But Monday we will have the power capacity and I plan to test the machines at different frequencies to find the best sols/s vs. euro/kwh.

You can see the current dashboard of the Z9 mini here:

 

[GlobalWealth]

Update:

As of today, we are fully operational.

My contractor who was doing the renovations was 2 weeks behind schedule and still not finished so I fired him yesterday.

The space is workable, but I have several details that need to be finished;

• building the bathroom
• putting up the security door to the power room
• putting up the secondary entry door and small entry hall
• installing the wire mesh for the heat exhaust

These are all details that do not keep us from getting the mine running, thus my decision to fire the contractor so I could get to work. I will deal with these minor issues over the coming weeks.

For now, we have the walls up, the ceiling cleaned, the floor renovated and painted, and power installed.

At this stage we have the following machines up and running:

• 12 Innosilicon A9's
• 12 Bitmain Z9 minis
• 8 Bitmain L3+'s

Even at these prices, we are at about $13,000 (in USD terms) net profit per month.

With the A9's and Z9's, we are mining ZEN. The L3+'s are basically a break even at our power cost.

As of today, our 4 pallets of GPU equipment just arrived from the US. Most likely it will take a few days to a week to get it to clear customs.

After that, my son will be building all the GPU equipment in our facility. Profitability for GPU mining is shit. Right now we will most likely mine Monero, but at the current prices we are going to be lucky to earn an extra couple of thousand per month.

We will be doing a lot of testing with the GPU's to find the best solution. Otherwise we will be opening a discount gamer warehouse....lol

 

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[GlobalWealth]

Update on the Z9 minis.

I have overclocked all of my Z9 minis and getting around 14k sols/s. I set the frequency to 650mhz. I will be testing different frequencies to find the best ratio of hashrate to kwh.

 

[GlobalWealth]

Update on the L3+'s.

I have overclocked all of the L3+'s also. I'm getting around 600mh/s. I set the frequency at 462mhz. Like with the Z9's, I will be testing different frequencies to find the best profitability.