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[Progress] Sanctus Nutrition - Supplement Company (and first real entrepreneurial pursuit)

Brewer07

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Updates:
  1. Surpassed $1500 in sales
  2. Big wins:
    1. Got a shoutout on social media from a fairly big name in the keto space. He "loved Focal Force and is going to mention my company in an email blast this week. This lead to a relatively big spike in traffic and a bump in sales. I'm offering a first order discount code for his followers which will be included in the email. He also referred me to several other big names in the space, all of which have agreed to try out my product.
    2. Shipped my first international orders (one sample, one full product).
    3. I appeared on a podcast a few weeks ago. The host trains numerous clients, and he requested a batch of samples to give out to his clients.
    4. I joined a fundraising effort (Home) with a bunch of independent brands to raise money for Hurricane Harvey relief efforts. Each brand has agreed to donate a portion of each September sale to help Houston rebuild. This is awesome because 1) I've been wanting to get involved in charitable pursuits, and 2) it legitimizes my brand by putting it on the same page with names like TaylorStitch, Myles, SeaVees, etc.
    5. I've got a friend who is close with an IFBB pro who has tentatively agreed to partner up with me. I'm meeting with him soon - I plan on paying him to refer more bodybuilders to work with me as affiliates.
  3. Sticking points:
    1. Generating traffic. Other than the spike in traffic from the shoutout mentioned above, traffic is barely at a trickle. I get boosts from my email list when I post blogs. I need to get SEO hammered down, get my product listed on Google, etc. to start driving more traffic.
    2. Grassroots selling - I've gotten no where with local gyms and with local pharmacies.
    3. Affiliate program - none of my affiliates are generating sales, or really driving any traffic.
    4. Video - I'm slacking on this. To be honest I am discouraged from making it because of point #1 - I don't know how or where to promote it.
All in all September has been a weird month. Lots of ups and downs. Not where I want to be with sales but I am generating momentum and expect an uptick in October with my company/product being promoted by others with large audiences.
 
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Brewer07

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I had numerous comments recommending I make a video and take product shots reflecting the professional/pharmacist-developed aspect of my product. See attached for some photos I took inside a pharmacy.

30-second clip:
View: https://youtu.be/5_bZRn6JQJY

60-second clip:
View: https://youtu.be/sR_n7ktKWHM


Not sure we'll ever use the clips, but they were fun to shoot. They would need a lot of editing to be usable in ads IMO but I'm not an expert here - feel free to chime in with feedback!

More updates - had my first $1K month! Now offering free samples via the website. Looking to add a protein next.
 

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RoadTrip

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Congrats on your first 1K month!

Updates:
  1. Sticking points:
    1. Generating traffic. Other than the spike in traffic from the shoutout mentioned above, traffic is barely at a trickle. I get boosts from my email list when I post blogs. I need to get SEO hammered down, get my product listed on Google, etc. to start driving more traffic.
Did you give Facebook Ads another try? I really feel this is your best chance of generating targeted traffic. The challenge here is to create an appealing creative, probably a video, and get it aligned with Facebook guidelines. To get inspiration I would suggest you join some of the facebook advertising groups, if you haven't already...
 
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TheodoreA

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Out of curiosity, and I apologize if I have missed this somewhere, but do you just buy other brands' powders from elsewhere and mix them together yourself? Will you look to use a supplement manufacturing company at some point or are you just doing this form home?
 

MoreVolume

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  1. Sticking points:
    1. Generating traffic. Other than the spike in traffic from the shoutout mentioned above, traffic is barely at a trickle. I get boosts from my email list when I post blogs. I need to get SEO hammered down, get my product listed on Google, etc. to start driving more traffic.
    2. Grassroots selling - I've gotten no where with local gyms and with local pharmacies.
    3. Affiliate program - none of my affiliates are generating sales, or really driving any traffic.
    4. Video - I'm slacking on this. To be honest I am discouraged from making it because of point #1 - I don't know how or where to promote it.
All in all September has been a weird month. Lots of ups and downs. Not where I want to be with sales but I am generating momentum and expect an uptick in October with my company/product being promoted by others with large audiences.
You should use forums as a way to generate traffic/sales. Guerilla marketing on forums is extremely underrated. I was able to make back my initial startup costs *edit* after a month and some change, so that should tell you how effective it is
You should forget about physical locations until you can develop a good amount of sales and reputation online. You're going to need stats and projections before any retailers take you seriously.
Relying on affiliates in the early stages is a no no. You're going to be dealing with people that don't have the ability to make money. You've probably found that out by now though
If you haven't already, you need to make some type of video based ads for Youtube and IG. Even if they are cheap videos from Fiverr. This is a method of advertising that will create another passive lane to generate traffic and sales

Before you say, who TF is this guy
I run a supplement company as well. Things kicked off in Feb. If things keep going the way they are going, I may be able to say that I made 100K in a span of 12 months. We'll see though
 
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Brewer07

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Whoohooh. You're doing very nice! I love the clips.

Congratz on your $1K month!!!

Keep up the good work man.

Thank you!

Congrats on your first 1K month!

Did you give Facebook Ads another try? I really feel this is your best chance of generating targeted traffic. The challenge here is to create an appealing creative, probably a video, and get it aligned with Facebook guidelines. To get inspiration I would suggest you join some of the facebook advertising groups, if you haven't already...

I've got a friend running my marketing now, and we're running FB ads for Black Friday/Cyber Monday. I'll let you know how these go!

Out of curiosity, and I apologize if I have missed this somewhere, but do you just buy other brands' powders from elsewhere and mix them together yourself? Will you look to use a supplement manufacturing company at some point or are you just doing this form home?

No worries - this is my own custom formulation. I have a manufacturer blending and creating the product.

You should use forums as a way to generate traffic/sales. Guerilla marketing on forums is extremely underrated. I was able to make back my initial startup costs *edit* after a month and some change, so that should tell you how effective it is
You should forget about physical locations until you can develop a good amount of sales and reputation online. You're going to need stats and projections before any retailers take you seriously.
Relying on affiliates in the early stages is a no no. You're going to be dealing with people that don't have the ability to make money. You've probably found that out by now though
If you haven't already, you need to make some type of video based ads for Youtube and IG. Even if they are cheap videos from Fiverr. This is a method of advertising that will create another passive lane to generate traffic and sales

Before you say, who TF is this guy
I run a supplement company as well. Things kicked off in Feb. If things keep going the way they are going, I may be able to say that I made 100K in a span of 12 months. We'll see though

This is very helpful - thank you! I do have follow-up questions:
  1. Were you previously a member of these forums, or did you sign up solely to market your product? I could see members being resistant to an "outsider" coming in just to market their product. I assume you're being an active member on the forum, making other posts unrelated to your product, etc., but would love to hear more about your strategy here, especially the types of posts you are making.
  2. We're actually making some progress on physical locations by avoiding large chains (GNC, Vitamin Shoppe, etc.).
  3. Video ads are a work in progress. I'll post them up once they are completed!
Really appreciate your insight & advice!
 
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MoreVolume

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No worries - this is my own custom formulation. I have a manufacturer blending and creating the product.


This is very helpful - thank you! I do have follow-up questions:
  1. Were you previously a member of these forums, or did you sign up solely to market your product? I could see members being resistant to an "outsider" coming in just to market their product. I assume you're being an active member on the forum, making other posts unrelated to your product, etc., but would love to hear more about your strategy here, especially the types of posts you are making.
  2. We're actually making some progress on physical locations by avoiding large chains (GNC, Vitamin Shoppe, etc.).
  3. Video ads are a work in progress. I'll post them up once they are completed!
Really appreciate your insight & advice!
1) It was a mixture of both. Some were boards that I have been on for years, and others were forums that I had "targeted". Either way, I didn't "market" the product. I would find a conversation that was somewhat relevant to the product, and mention the product as if I were a customer. Because of the nature of the product and its unique name, it quickly became a topic of discussion on one forum in particular.


We have the same academic background (kinda :) ), so I feel like I should say this to you

You have no reason to be dealing with a manufacturer at this stage inthe game. You're leaving money on the table. ALOT of it.
If you could develop a relationship with a local CC or small company with a GMP certified area...your business life will change instantly. Your business can provide alot of value if you find the right people to connect with.
I've seen the margins of guys who have private label manufacturers produce their supplements. Theres no way I could run a business with those kind of returns. Especially in this industry.



Your credentials can get you far....
 
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Captain Jack

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@Brewer07

Great thread!

I'm also a health care professional (specialist physician assistant) and identified a supplement need in my particular field. I was not in the market for creating a supplement, but this almost literally fell into my lap.

I'm in the early stages of creation (just finishing a design label and working with manufacturers on my formulation).

Here's my question:

We are health care professionals so I feel like we will be considered to have more liability than a layman that creates a supplement company. Obviously, creating an LLC will alleviate this risk somewhat, but I was wondering if you had a lawyer draw up a confidential trust so that people can't easily search you out and try to sue you (and, thus, ruining your professional career along with your supplement product).

It's possible I'm just being paranoid here and thinking too far in terms of 'CYA'. What are your thoughts?
 

Raoul Duke

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Really enjoy your process @Brewer07. Keep up the good work!

Here are some threads for you... Check these out. Have you read Ca$hvertising?

INSIDERS Threads:
https://www.thefastlaneforum.com/co...ow-to-kick-a$$-with-facebook-marketing.48920/
https://www.thefastlaneforum.com/community/threads/progress-monetising-my-adwords-knowledge.52532/
https://www.thefastlaneforum.com/co...ific-beauty-products.58683/page-3#post-445772

Non INSIDERS Threads:
GOLD - Paid Advertising Crash Course
The Online Buying Lifecycle (video)


@MJ DeMarco @AllenCrawley @Vigilante @Andy Black

#notable or #gold ?
 
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fiola

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I had numerous comments recommending I make a video and take product shots reflecting the professional/pharmacist-developed aspect of my product. See attached for some photos I took inside a pharmacy.

30-second clip:
View: https://youtu.be/5_bZRn6JQJY

60-second clip:
View: https://youtu.be/sR_n7ktKWHM


Not sure we'll ever use the clips, but they were fun to shoot. They would need a lot of editing to be usable in ads IMO but I'm not an expert here - feel free to chime in with feedback!

More updates - had my first $1K month! Now offering free samples via the website. Looking to add a protein next.

Congrats on your progress. I've heard a lot of people complaining about the quality of the suplements and about the fact that some are even dangerous for health.

Did you make the videos yourself?
Here are some suggestions: The transitions between clips could be better. You could also include some clips with people exercising in the gym and maybe some background music. The camera is shaking and it's a bit distracting.

Have you tried explaining the benefits of taking suplements and adress the people who work out but don't take supplements?
 

Andy Black

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Great progress thread, thanks for all your details. Had quite a few thoughts which I'll come back and write later.

Well done on your sales, and thanks for sharing your journey with us.

Marked Notable.
 

Andy Black

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I literally only just came across this thread today. I probably missed it previously because it had Supplements in the title and I thought it would be another gold rush thread.

Thoughts from skimming it:

1) The fact that you're a pharmacist is what made me take the thread seriously and made it stand out from other "me too" supplement startups. As others have said, this could be front and center in your marketing. Your story could be the main selling point.

2) Customer avatars. I'm not a fan of doing this before getting customers. I think spending too long on this before you're making sales is a distraction and potentially blinkers us from who might really want our products. Now you have customers, can you describe the people you *actually* have? We have customer avatars in my team - and they're actual customers. I don't have to describe them, I just say their name and my team knows that person is never going to sit through a 60 minute webinar. Imagine selling business coaching or tips to @Vigilante or @MJ DeMarco for instance. Would they go to a seminar about how to make money online? If your market is people like either of those two business owners, then imagine them as people you actually know and what they would and wouldn't react to favorably.

3) Related to the above... your market is NOT a demographic, but a demonstrated cashflow. What are people *already* spending their money on that indicates they care what they put into their body, and are interested in working out? You mention keto already. What other diets or ingredients are people *already* spending money on that indicate they are already trying to solve the problem your product also solves? (See how creating an avatar of a body-builder might exclude those people... and how you would have blinkered yourself from the outset?)

4) I've never done work in the supplement space on AdWords. I expect there's a lot of guidelines. I expect if anyone can satisfy them then it will be a pure offering delivered by a qualified pharmacist. I mention AdWords because of the search intent behind a visitor. Try paid search. Go through the free lessons in my course to understand the online buying lifecycle, how to do Keyword Research, and how to analyse the Google Search Results Page.

5) You've mentioned landing pages not converting etc. Landing pages don't convert - people do. It's about getting the right person to the right offer at the right time. It's about having the right messaging for those visitors. You can't judge a landing page in isolatation, you have to judge the visitors hitting your landing page... what were they looking for? what enticed them to click through? what do they hope to see on the page? I created a thread: The biggest landing page mistake

6) Have you considered a subscription business? I've just finished "The Automatic Customer" and thought it a short and great read. Your market might be people interested in improving their health in all sorts of ways. Would they want your product on a monthly basis? Russell Brunson had a supplement business... I think he mentions how he studied other peoples sales funnels and copied their structure (one-click upsells, ongoing subscriptions, etc).

7) Someone mentioned forums. I use forums a lot and created a thread: How to use forums (and Facebook groups)
I believe @Scot has had a similar experience in Facebook groups.

6) I've been into fitness and a casual gym-goer for over 20 years. I haven't lifted weights in the last year, but plan on getting back into it again. I've never taken supplements, but want to be healthier and eat better. Would I take them? Maybe, but I don't want to spend any time doing research and going down the rabbit-hole. Would I subscribe to some email list telling me about simple healthy eating and fitness tips? Maybe. If you were to try and market to me, what would you do? What do I currently spend my money on that indicates I'm interested (and doing a bit of) healthy eating and fitness? Where is my attention currently?

What would go through my head seeing your ads:
  • (These are written harshly so you get an idea of what might be going on in other people's minds. Please don't take offence if you think differently - this is for OP's benefit):
  • Do I GAF about the taste? No... I'm a full-grown man and things I eat don't need to taste like sweets or ice-cream. Why are you even talking about how it tastes? Does it do what it says on the tin?
  • Do I want to look like some dude with a six-pack and muscles? No... I consider focusing on "trying to look good" when I'm married with 3 small kids both a self-indulgence and a vanity. I spend more time taking my kids to sports activities than I do on myself. I'd like to spend more time on myself, but at the age of 46 it's about being light, flexible, and strong.... not having a six-pack or lifting Xkg bench-press. Photos of half-naked six-packed men make me think the product isn't aimed at me.
  • Do I want to see pictures of young ladies in gym gear? As a married man old enough to be their dad? Have a guess? Photos of young ladies make me think the product isn't aimed at me.
  • Do I have time to read labels and create diet and exercise plans for myself? How many parents in jobs or running their own business have the time or inclination to do all that research? Would I rather just have one source I trust and snap-buy from them instead?
7) Who already has your customers? I'm doing work for a startup delivering healthy meals. Their market are interested in their health and are cash-rich and time-poor. Does that seem like a demonstrated cashflow to you?


I'll add more as they occur to me.
 
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Andy Black

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My over-riding thought is that you might benefit from fulfilling demand that's already there, rather than trying to generate demand amongst people who are so-so about it.


EDIT: Oh, and is your name seriously Dr Brewer ?!? A phramacist called Dr Brewer? How cool!
 

Brewer07

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@Brewer07

Great thread!

I'm also a health care professional (specialist physician assistant) and identified a supplement need in my particular field. I was not in the market for creating a supplement, but this almost literally fell into my lap.

I'm in the early stages of creation (just finishing a design label and working with manufacturers on my formulation).

Here's my question:

We are health care professionals so I feel like we will be considered to have more liability than a layman that creates a supplement company. Obviously, creating an LLC will alleviate this risk somewhat, but I was wondering if you had a lawyer draw up a confidential trust so that people can't easily search you out and try to sue you (and, thus, ruining your professional career along with your supplement product).

It's possible I'm just being paranoid here and thinking too far in terms of 'CYA'. What are your thoughts?

I'm not a lawyer so please don't take this as legal advice. :)

From conversations with my lawyer - having the LLC and keeping EVERYTHING personal out of the business helps a great deal. Separate checking account, separate credit cards, etc. - and not using said business assets for personal purchases. I'm going to disagree that we have more liability vs. a layman in creating & selling supplements - I see what you're getting at, but I don't think that's the case. I know our schooling trains us to protect our license at all cost, that we're always at risk for losing it, etc. - which is true in a way, and that's why I carry personal liability insurance, in addition to general business liability insurance.

Don't make outlandish claims, and be very upfront about who should NOT use your product. Do all your homework about any potential drug/disease interactions with your supplement, and make sure that's on the label and website.

I did not do a confidential trust, and I actually put my name and credentials all over the website. I think it's essential for developing trust and a relationship with customers. Just my two cents - not saying I'm right or wrong.
 

Brewer07

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Really enjoy your process @Brewer07. Keep up the good work!

Here are some threads for you... Check these out. Have you read Ca$hvertising?

INSIDERS Threads:
https://www.thefastlaneforum.com/co...ow-to-kick-a$$-with-facebook-marketing.48920/
https://www.thefastlaneforum.com/community/threads/progress-monetising-my-adwords-knowledge.52532/
https://www.thefastlaneforum.com/co...ific-beauty-products.58683/page-3#post-445772

Non INSIDERS Threads:
GOLD - Paid Advertising Crash Course
The Online Buying Lifecycle (video)


@MJ DeMarco @AllenCrawley @Vigilante @Andy Black

#notable or #gold ?

Haven't read Cashvertising. I trust your recommendation - I'll buy for Kindle today & post once I finish with my takeaways

THANK YOU for the links - reading today & will forward to my team.
 
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Brewer07

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Congrats on your progress. I've heard a lot of people complaining about the quality of the suplements and about the fact that some are even dangerous for health.

Did you make the videos yourself?
Here are some suggestions: The transitions between clips could be better. You could also include some clips with people exercising in the gym and maybe some background music. The camera is shaking and it's a bit distracting.

Have you tried explaining the benefits of taking suplements and adress the people who work out but don't take supplements?

Yes - videos are homemade. Figured that'd be obvious based on the quality :playful: although we won't use those for marketing, it was good to just do it and give me experience in front of a camera.

Thanks for the suggestions. We're working on that now - planning to work with the same group that made this video:
View: https://vimeo.com/240096020


Re: benefits/addressing people who work out but don't take supplements. I've made good progress at "converting" friends of mine who "don't take pre-workout" into people who buy my pre-workout. The pharmacist credentials help. I've written several blog posts about the science and benefits behind the ingredients I use. It's working within my network - the hurdle we're facing is how to break beyond personal networks and vastly expand our reach.
 

Andy Black

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Yes - videos are homemade. Figured that'd be obvious based on the quality :playful: although we won't use those for marketing, it was good to just do it and give me experience in front of a camera.

Thanks for the suggestions. We're working on that now - planning to work with the same group that made this video:
View: https://vimeo.com/240096020


Re: benefits/addressing people who work out but don't take supplements. I've made good progress at "converting" friends of mine who "don't take pre-workout" into people who buy my pre-workout. The pharmacist credentials help. I've written several blog posts about the science and benefits behind the ingredients I use. It's working within my network - the hurdle we're facing is how to break beyond personal networks and vastly expand our reach.
Sometimes the rough and ready videos by a subject matter expert come across as more genuine.

There's many a video I stop after a few seconds because they're too slick.
 

Brewer07

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I literally only just came across this thread today. I probably missed it previously because it had Supplements in the title and I thought it would be another gold rush thread.

Thoughts from skimming it:

1) The fact that you're a pharmacist is what made me take the thread seriously and made it stand out from other "me too" supplement startups. As others have said, this could be front and center in your marketing. Your story could be the main selling point.

First, THANK YOU for the detailed response. This is gold.

How would you sell my story? Video? Audio? Blog? All of the above?

2) Customer avatars. I'm not a fan of doing this before getting customers. I think spending too long on this before you're making sales is a distraction and potentially blinkers us from who might really want our products. Now you have customers, can you describe the people you *actually* have? We have customer avatars in my team - and they're actual customers. I don't have to describe them, I just say their name and my team knows that person is never going to sit through a 60 minute webinar. Imagine selling business coaching or tips to @Vigilante or @MJ DeMarco for instance. Would they go to a seminar about how to make money online? If your market is people like either of those two business owners, then imagine them as people you actually know and what they would and wouldn't react to favorably.

Valid point. I did the customer avatar *prior* to sales based on a suggestion from Billy Murphy/Clay Hebert.

Now that we have sales...our "typical" customer is male, age 26-33, and frankly, beyond that, I couldn't tell you much about them. Our sales come primarily from:
  1. My personal network
  2. I befriended someone with a decent IG following. He has a sales background, is active in Crossfit, and loves my product. He regularly recommends it to his followers.
  3. IG outreach via our business account.
Via customer feedback, I know the following are reasons why people love our product:
  1. Low caffeine / no jitters or crash. Since most pre-workouts have 200-400 mg caffeine, we resonate with people who workout in the evening after work and want a boost, without affecting their sleep.
  2. No artificial sweeteners/food dyes. No sugars. Hitting the keto/health crowd.
  3. Results. We don't underdose ingredients, so our product works.
This is me openly brainstorming re: actually customer "avatars".

3) Related to the above... your market is NOT a demographic, but a demonstrated cashflow. What are people *already* spending their money on that indicates they care about what they're putting into their body, and are interested in working out? You mention keto already. What other diets or ingredients are people *already* spending money that indicate they are already trying to solve the problem your product also solves? )See how creating an avatar of a body-builder might exclude those people... and how you've blinkered yourself from the outset?)

Great point. This is an area we have not researched enough.

4) I've never done work in the supplement space on AdWords. I expect there's a lot of guidelines. I expect if anyone can satisfy them then it will be a pure offering delivered by a qualified pharmacist. I mention AdWords because of the search intent behind a visitors. Try paid search. Go through the free lessons in my course to understand the online buying lifecycle, how to do Keyword Research, and how to analyse the Google Search Results Page.

Done. Will forward to my team as well.

5) You've mentioned landing pages not converting etc. Landing pages don't convert - people do. It's about getting the right person to the right offer at the right time. It's about having the right messaging for those visitors. You can't judge a landing page in isolate, you have to judge the visitors hitting your landing page... what were they looking for? what enticed them to click through? what do they hope to see on the page? I created a thread: The biggest landing page mistake

Reading today & forwarding to my team.

6) Have you considered a subscription business? I've just finished "The Automatic Customer" and thought it a short and great read. Your market might be people interested in improving their health in all sorts of ways. Would they want your product on a monthly basis? Russell Brunson had a supplement business... I think he mentions how he studied other peoples sales funnels and copied their structure (one-click upsells, ongoing subscriptions, etc).

Yes, we've been discussing this lately! Need to pick a subscription feature in Shopify and run with it.

7) Someone mentioned forums. I use forums a lot and created a thread: How to use forums (and Facebook groups)
I believe @Scot has had a similar experience in Facebook groups.

Reading today + forwarding to team. Thank you!

6) I've been into fitness and a casual gym-goer for over 20 years. I haven't lifted weights in the last year, but plan on getting back into it again. I've never taken supplements, but want to be healthier and eat better. Would I take them? Maybe, but I don't want to spend any time doing research and going down the rabbit-hole. Would I subscribe to some email list telling me about simple healthy eating and fitness tips? Maybe. If you were to try and market to me, what would you do? What do I currently spend my money on that indicates I'm interested (and doing a bit of) healthy eating and fitness? Where is my attention currently?

If I were marketing to you, I would:
  1. Decide if I should be marketing to you or not. Based on your response that you're not currently lifting weights, I wouldn't sell you pre-workout right now. I'd want you to establish that habit first before buying any supplements.
  2. Fast-forward 4 weeks. You're consistently in the gym and ready to take the next step. Here's what I'm looking for:
    1. Spending money on a gym membership = this signals to me you've established that you're willing to spend money on your health & fitness. I don't need to sell you on that.
    2. Spending money on healthy food - same as above.
    3. Spending money on a trainer to put together workouts/diet plans? Another signal you're willing to spend money on health/fitness.
This quote is sticking out to me: "I've never taken supplements, but want to be healthier and eat better. Would I take them? Maybe, but I don't want to spend any time doing research and going down the rabbit-hole." My business is built on the fact that I've done that research for you. I'm struggling to communicate that to potential customers. I'm struggling with connection and trust.

This was a good exercise I'm going to continue reflecting on.

What would go through my head seeing your ads:
  • (These are written harshly so you get an idea of what might be going on in other people's minds. Please don't take offence if you think differently - this is for OP's benefit):
  • Do I GAF about the taste? No... I'm a full-grown man and things I eat don't need to taste like sweets or ice-cream. Why are you even talking about how it tastes? Does it do what it says on the tin?
  • Do I want to look like some dude with a six-pack and muscles? No... I consider focusing on "trying to look good" when I'm married with 3 small kids both a self-indulgence and a vanity. I spend more time taking my kids to sports activities than I do on myself. I'd like to spend more time on myself, but at the age of 46 it's about being light, flexible, and strong.... not having a six-pack or lifting Xkg bench-press. Photos of half-naked six-packed men make me think the product isn't aimed at me.
  • Do I want to see pictures of young ladies in gym gear? As a married man old enough to be their dad? Have a guess? Photos of young ladies make me think the product isn't aimed at me.
  • Do I have time to read labels and create diet and exercise plans for myself? How many parents in jobs or running their own business have the time or inclination to do all that research? Would I rather just have one source I trust and snap-buy from them instead?
Be as harsh as possible. It's how I learn.

As a 26 year-old, I don't see things from a 46 YO point of view, obviously. Thanks for pointing this out.

Here's the takeaway I get: the product isn't "age-dependent", so segment advertising based on age, and use different ads/photos for different age ranges. What appeals to a 26 year-old likely won't appeal to a 46 year-old, and vice versa. Both can benefit from my product, but they want to be communicated with differently.

Let me know your thoughts.

7) Who already has your customers? I'm doing work for a startup delivering healthy meals. Their market are interested in their health and are cash-rich and time-poor. Does that seem like a demonstrated cashflow to you?

Good point. This builds on points #2 & #3 above. Where are our target customers already spending money?

Thank you for your feedback. I appreciate you taking the time to go in-depth. This has been helpful and I'm going to continue to build on your response/insight.
 
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Brewer07

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Sometimes the rough and ready videos by a subject matter expert come across as more genuine.

There's many a video I stop after a few seconds because they're too slick.

  1. Would you use the videos I posted?
  2. If not, what are 2-3 things you would change?
What I'm considering and where your advice would help me: I can use those videos w/revisions, or I can shoot one on my laptop, explaining my story & why I started the company.

Or, both of those options are wrong and there's another route to take..
 

Andy Black

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I tell my story ALL . THE . TIME. Everywhere.


You might have heard it (the first radio interview linked to in my signature).

I did a 5 min video telling my story as well:

I link people to those all the time too.

The message is more important than the medium I think.

Let me know if you get value from either, and whether you think a slicker version would have helped or not.

Think about your own reaction to it, and imagine how others would react to your own story.
 

MoreVolume

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  1. Would you use the videos I posted?
  2. If not, what are 2-3 things you would change?
What I'm considering and where your advice would help me: I can use those videos w/revisions, or I can shoot one on my laptop, explaining my story & why I started the company.

Or, both of those options are wrong and there's another route to take..
I think you should stay in the shadows. At least for now.
It gives off the impression that you're bigger than what you are, which is only a positive in this industry.
There are supplement company CEOs out there who do interviews, podcasts, etc. But the difference between them and guys like us, is that they have corporate office buildings, large staffs, large budgets, etc.

I feel like all that "My Story" stuff is overrated. As long as people know that the supplements are safe to take, they're not going to care why you started your company.
Let them know that your stuff is produced under strict quality control, and they won't suffer any side effects. Then move on to whats important

In all honestly
I don't think that you're at the stage where people should know that there's only one guy behind the operation. No matter what your credentials are. They shouldn't even know that you have a 3rd party manufacturer tbh.

I'm not saying that this is your issue, but one thing I notice in the supplement industry, is that too many people try to be too "by the book". That ultimately holds them back from taking that next step
 
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Brewer07

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Really enjoy your process @Brewer07. Keep up the good work!

Here are some threads for you... Check these out. Have you read Ca$hvertising?

INSIDERS Threads:
https://www.thefastlaneforum.com/co...ow-to-kick-a$$-with-facebook-marketing.48920/
https://www.thefastlaneforum.com/community/threads/progress-monetising-my-adwords-knowledge.52532/
https://www.thefastlaneforum.com/co...ific-beauty-products.58683/page-3#post-445772

Non INSIDERS Threads:
GOLD - Paid Advertising Crash Course
The Online Buying Lifecycle (video)


@MJ DeMarco @AllenCrawley @Vigilante @Andy Black

#notable or #gold ?

Also, I can't message you, so I'll put it here - thank you for the INSIDERS threads (that I can now access, another thanks there ;)) the book recommendation, for taking time out of your day to drop in and share your advice. I really appreciate it! I'll comment back once I've gone through everything and tag you in my takeaways
 

Brewer07

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What would go through my head seeing your ads:
  • Do I GAF about the taste? No... I'm a full-grown man and things I eat don't need to taste like sweets or ice-cream. Why are you even talking about how it tastes? Does it do what it says on the tin?
I've been thinking on this one a lot. After reading your "Paid Advertising Crash Course" & listening to your radio interview, here are my thoughts on addressing this:

I started the company because I too don't GAF about taste. I don't know when people decided pre-workout should taste like gummy worms or cotton candy (both are real examples), but it's gotten ridiculous. I just chug pre-workout anyway - I'll take the health benefits of avoiding all the BS that makes those flavors any day.

I've struggled figuring out how to market to people who think this way.

From your posts, here's the strategy I think will work in identifying and targeting health-conscious people who don't care about taste:
  1. Research other products, across industries, that bill themselves as healthy options without artificial sweeteners, food dyes, etc. Identify large brands and products.
  2. Use SpyFU & SimilarWeb to gather keyword research & other useful search data on brands and products found in step 1 above.
  3. Combine results from step #2 with targeting people who have already expressed interest (ex: "liking" a brand/product page on Facebook) or visited said websites found in step #1.
  4. Combine research from steps 1 - 3 with demographic data I've already gathered about my customers to target ads at health-conscious consumers.
This will allow me to display ads specifically to people who have already expressed interest in a product that does not contain artificial sweeteners, food dyes, etc. and have shown an interest in working out.

Let me know what you think!
 

Scot

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I mentioned him before on this thread, but I wanted to share the group. Dr Jim Stoppani’s brand, Jym, has a die hard cult like following. Anyone starting a supplement company should strive to emulate what he’s built.

Here’s the link to his group on Facebook. I encourage you to join and just watch the posts for a week Log into Facebook | Facebook

Here’s what you’ll see on this 60,000 plus group.

People will go to GNC, spend $300+ on his products, post a photo of them and the long receipt, as a matter of pride. This happens daily on the group.

People will vehemently defend the brand and its science to attacks from GNC employees or random people at the gym.

People post pictures of their Jym brand T-shirt’s and hats daily.

They’re a well informed and very proud group.

Check out his group. Because you both approach supps from a scientific stand point, I think there are a lot of things he does you can borrow as far as marketing goes.
 
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RoadTrip

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From your posts, here's the strategy I think will work in identifying and targeting health-conscious people who don't care about taste:
  1. Research other products, across industries, that bill themselves as healthy options without artificial sweeteners, food dyes, etc. Identify large brands and products.
I'm would consider myself quite health conscious due to an auto-immune disease and the fact that I'm selling a natural supplement blend. In case you wonder: finding a solution to my problem resulted in the business I'm currently running.

So what people who are health conscious usually interest:
  • Paleo
  • Vegan
  • Superfoods: quinoa, spirulina, turmeric, etc.
  • Ayurveda / yoga / meditation
  • Any auto-immune disease
  • Oat meal
  • Smoothies
  • Organic food
  • Probiotics
If you combine this with interests of people who like to lift and use pre-workout shakes, you should be able to narrow down targetting to find your target market. These people are generally less concerned about taste and more about the health aspect.

It would be interesting to know how many people fall into the two groups at the same time (pre-workout + the above interests). You can use Facebook Audience Stats in your facebook ads account to get an idea of how many people fall into this group. And you can try running ads to them. Due to my experience with FB ads I don't know of any better platform to accomplish this than Facebook, but maybe other people can chime in and share their experience (Blogs, Instagram, etc.).
 

Brewer07

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I mentioned him before on this thread, but I wanted to share the group. Dr Jim Stoppani’s brand, Jym, has a die hard cult like following. Anyone starting a supplement company should strive to emulate what he’s built.

Here’s the link to his group on Facebook. I encourage you to join and just watch the posts for a week Log into Facebook | Facebook

Here’s what you’ll see on this 60,000 plus group.

People will go to GNC, spend $300+ on his products, post a photo of them and the long receipt, as a matter of pride. This happens daily on the group.

People will vehemently defend the brand and its science to attacks from GNC employees or random people at the gym.

People post pictures of their Jym brand T-shirt’s and hats daily.

They’re a well informed and very proud group.

Check out his group. Because you both approach supps from a scientific stand point, I think there are a lot of things he does you can borrow as far as marketing goes.

I can't find the video right now, but he had a REALLY good ad on FB lately - was comparing a scoop of Pre-Jym with the "standard" pre-workout scoop. Point of the message was how his product is dosed based on science and you can tell by looking at the size of a serving. He summed up everything I've been trying to say with one video.

Very good recommendation! Thank you

I'm would consider myself quite health conscious due to an auto-immune disease and the fact that I'm selling a natural supplement blend. In case you wonder: finding a solution to my problem resulted in the business I'm currently running.

So what people who are health conscious usually interest:
  • Paleo
  • Vegan
  • Superfoods: quinoa, spirulina, turmeric, etc.
  • Ayurveda / yoga / meditation
  • Any auto-immune disease
  • Oat meal
  • Smoothies
  • Organic food
  • Probiotics
If you combine this with interests of people who like to lift and use pre-workout shakes, you should be able to narrow down targetting to find your target market. These people are generally less concerned about taste and more about the health aspect.

It would be interesting to know how many people fall into the two groups at the same time (pre-workout + the above interests). You can use Facebook Audience Stats in your facebook ads account to get an idea of how many people fall into this group. And you can try running ads to them. Due to my experience with FB ads I don't know of any better platform to accomplish this than Facebook, but maybe other people can chime in and share their experience (Blogs, Instagram, etc.).

Very helpful - thank you for sharing your experience! Stuff like this may seem basic, but I have literally zero experience running ads, so it's gold to me.

Glad to hear from someone else who created a business by finding a solution to their own problem. That was a key piece of advice that led to me creating my company as well.
 

Raoul Duke

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Also, I can't message you, so I'll put it here - thank you for the INSIDERS threads (that I can now access, another thanks there ;)) the book recommendation, for taking time out of your day to drop in and share your advice. I really appreciate it! I'll comment back once I've gone through everything and tag you in my takeaways

Yeah, I have my private messages turned off. I can only PM people. I really like your progress. I think you'll benefit from having a INSIDERS subscription. Keep up the hard work!
 
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MidwestLandlord

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I second everything @Andy Black said in his epic comment above.

Here are my random thoughts, hopefully they help.

Me: 35 years old, male, lifter (NOT a body builder), runner, outdoor enthusiast with a high income.

I would not buy this product from you. I love the idea of it, but your site would not convince me to buy.

1) Who is this targeted at? Who are you selling to? Women? Young men? Middle-aged men like me? Hipsters? Crossfitters? Bodybuilders? Your thread here makes me want to buy, your website does not

2) The "spin the wheel" pop-up would of made me bounce instantly if you weren't a member of this forum

3) The "Billy Bob in Florida just bought this" pop-ups are annoying, and shows a girl's face with male names

4) Why is this "girl holding the bottle and smiling" everywhere it seems? She's cute, sure (have her ditch the engagement ring if you are using sex to sell this). But again, who is this product selling to? Women?

5) I wouldn't buy when you only have one product, without some sort of social proof seen elsewhere

6) The price is OK. I wouldn't even flinch paying $39.99 for it. But NOT because of the website, only because of your thread here

7) I hate ginger

8) I would never see a product like this from any bodybuilding related marketing. You couldn't pay me enough to go to bodybuilding dot com. I would see this type of thing on male self-improvement influencers though. (Aaron Marino comes to mind for sure. And if he recommended it, I would buy it...even though I hate ginger)

9) Your cup in the "gear" section is $25 even. You did good on the $39.99 for the supplement, why the odd price on the cup? ($24.99? $19.99? $24?)

10) Low caffeine is a big selling point for me. (adrenal fatigue sucks)

TL;DR

I would buy this, as it hits on pain points I have ran into with other pre-workouts. BUT, I would have to be sold on it through better copy, better pics, social proof, or mainstream availability (If I saw it in Target, I'd probably buy)

I read this whole thread before going to your site.

Boom! Yoga pants!

Am I in the right place?

Amazing progress, but learn to sell it.
 

Brewer07

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Thank you for taking the time to write a detailed response. I'll reply to each point:

I second everything @Andy Black said in his epic comment above.

Here are my random thoughts, hopefully they help.

Me: 35 years old, male, lifter (NOT a body builder), runner, outdoor enthusiast with a high income.

I would not buy this product from you. I love the idea of it, but your site would not convince me to buy.

1) Who is this targeted at? Who are you selling to? Women? Young men? Middle-aged men like me? Hipsters? Crossfitters? Bodybuilders? Your thread here makes me want to buy, your website does not

Thank you for not holding back and being honest -> this is why I get so much value from this forum.

Our target is health-conscious 29-34 YO men, high income, weightlifters -> is this narrow enough? We've had sales from people outside that demographic but that's who I picture when I think "target customer".

2) The "spin the wheel" pop-up would of made me bounce instantly if you weren't a member of this forum

Would you turn it off completely? Set to exit intent?

Since running, it has 1,411 views, 78 email sign ups (5.5% conversion). Not saying these are good results, just giving stats. Do you think I'd have better results turning it off completely?

3) The "Billy Bob in Florida just bought this" pop-ups are annoying, and shows a girl's face with male names

Noted. This is an attempt to play into the "social proof" mentioned in #5 below, since, as you mentioned, we currently only offer one product. It shows the image associated with the product - hence, the product image for samples (girl holding a sample) pops up for male names.

Would you turn this off completely? Change its appearance? Change how often it appears?

4) Why is this "girl holding the bottle and smiling" everywhere it seems? She's cute, sure (have her ditch the engagement ring if you are using sex to sell this). But again, who is this product selling to? Women?

She's my fiancee and costs $0 to schedule a photoshoot with ;) we had demand for samples and I wanted to get the product listing up in Shopify ASAP. I gave her a sample pack, her phone, and said I needed a product shot within an hour. Haven't taken the time to make a better image.

Seriously - my photos are shit. Most are stock, those that aren't stock aren't high quality. I'll be honest and won't make excuses - it's on me to make time to get a photographer, get a model, and get some good shots. I haven't done that, and it is costing me money.

5) I wouldn't buy when you only have one product, without some sort of social proof seen elsewhere

What would you recommend re: social proof?

I've attempted the IG/social media influencer route and got absolutely no where, just gave out a bunch of product for free with zero return. Also attempted the "so and so just bought" pop-ups.

6) The price is OK. I wouldn't even flinch paying $39.99 for it. But NOT because of the website, only because of your thread here

7) I hate ginger

Do you care about taste? Should I remove any mention of taste/flavor?

8) I would never see a product like this from any bodybuilding related marketing. You couldn't pay me enough to go to bodybuilding dot com. I would see this type of thing on male self-improvement influencers though. (Aaron Marino comes to mind for sure. And if he recommended it, I would buy it...even though I hate ginger)

My takeaway here: ignore any BB'ing-type marketing, and go the self-improvement route. Find influencers in this realm. Promote via these channels instead of trying to compete against other pre-workouts in the bodybuilding sphere.

9) Your cup in the "gear" section is $25 even. You did good on the $39.99 for the supplement, why the odd price on the cup? ($24.99? $19.99? $24?)

They cost $13.78 to make & ship from manufacturer. $5.75 to ship to consumer. So $19.53 total. I won't bullshit you, I didn't do anything fancy - just rounded up to $25.

Would you price differently? I'll run at $24.99 and see how it performs.

10) Low caffeine is a big selling point for me. (adrenal fatigue sucks)


This is a big reason I made this product. The next version will be NO caffeine - 90 mg is essentially pointless and I made a mistake here, because I could be marketing it as "caffeine free", "no caffeine", and hitting a large market there, vs. trying to toe the line and appeal to everyone - which is what I did with the 90 mg. Rookie mistake. I learned my lesson for next time.

TL;DR

I would buy this, as it hits on pain points I have ran into with other pre-workouts. BUT, I would have to be sold on it through better copy, better pics, social proof, or mainstream availability (If I saw it in Target, I'd probably buy)

I read this whole thread before going to your site.

Boom! Yoga pants!

Am I in the right place?

Amazing progress, but learn to sell it.

Thanks again for your detailed response. I agree that the website needs vast improvement. I take responsibility for shitty pics. Social proof, I'm unsure what to do, to be honest. Mainstream availability...down the future, when we have the sales to be taken seriously there.

Let me know if I missed the mark on anything. Thanks again - I really appreciate it!
 

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