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Twiizlar

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You're taking on a several month gig for $5 an hour. Tell him that you'll need to increase the rate soon and that you're only doing this for feedback, or otherwise find another gig. At $5 an hour anyone will "pay you to learn social media". If I was the employer, I'd try to have you "learn" as long as possible.
Thanks for the advice. I will do that in a week or two ( started job 7 days ago) just to make it fair to him that he hired me with no feed back.
 
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The-J

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Got another interview after 2 more applications.

He wanted to a sample and was willing to pay $5 for it. I sent it to him, the whole thing, for free. Told him if he wasn't satisfied, he doesn't have to pay.

He sent me a message at 6am, wanted it in 48 hours. I had a piece ready for him by 1:30pm same day.

I overdeliver on purpose (when I can), and if they don't pick me then it's obvious that someone else delivered more.

I'll be a bit surprised if he doesn't pick me out of the 9 people he's interviewing. I sent him a pretty lengthy piece, formatting and all. I won't be disappointed, though.

My first guy still hasn't sent me feedback or replied to my messages. I don't hold it against him, since he hasn't been active on Upwork since Saturday. Feedback seems to be the lifeblood of a portfolio.

I'm considering making a video for my profile after a few more jobs done. Has anyone had experience with doing a video? Has it helped? Thanks.
 

The Grind

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Yes, I would imagine making a video for your profile would automatically separate you from most.

What would you say the guidelines are for the video?
 

The-J

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What would you say the guidelines are for the video?

Well, Upwork/oDesk has their own guidelines. I'm unsure if they're helpful.

They say they want a 1 minute video, but I think a longer video would convert better. Hell, the best video sales letters are often 15 minutes or even longer.

They say to state your qualifications, but I'd think customers would prefer something that answers the question of how they stand out.

I'm studying other freelancer's profiles, the more successful ones, to see what they do. You can do this easily on Upwork by switching to your 'hiring' account and searching for freelancers in a search term (like copywriting).

I just need more jobs and feedback at this point. I'm patiently awaiting the day when I can go a good amount of time without applying to anything.

EDIT: Got another interview for a job I applied for several days ago. Cool. He needs 2 people out of 5 interviewees, so I think I'll have a chance. Maybe.
 
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risingtomillions

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Some feedback on the whole ODesk thing.

Did my first interview via skype, text, not video.

She explained what she was looking for, Im still confused on what she needed exactly. I asked a few questions. She wanted me to write something on the spot.

I said copy takes time essentially.

She said she liked that I said it takes time. But she wasnt looking for copy I guess, she wanted these fake petitions written, I said I can have one done by tomorrow night, she said she wanted all 10 done by tomorrow night. I said not ganna happen.

She then started to offer me a different job, writing a news article. After talking about that I said I dont think im the person to write news.

She then said "Sigh, so what CAN you write."

I just said "copy".

That was it basically.

I get the impression people want to hire freelancers to start a job right then and there and have it done hours later, even if it's a big job.

Also, that people don't know what copy is. They dont know it takes a long time to write it. They dont know what goes into it.

Now, I have literally 0 confidence in my writing, never written anything before, no results. Nothing. I just study copy, thats it.

Did I talk myself out of work? Maybe idk. Thoughts flooded my mind with "what if I write these petitions, hand them in and then get yelled at because they suck and they werent what she wanted? What if she gave me a terrible review that completely ruins my whole profile?"

You get points for keeping up the good fight, yes, you did talk yourself out of work but it's ok odesk is a big place. In my experience (I have freelanced on elance before). If a client does not like your work they will ask you to make particular changes and as long as you don't totally suck; you can get it right after a few tried and still get your glowing review. Don't give up, we all have to start from somewhere
 

masterneme

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Yes, I would imagine making a video for your profile would automatically separate you from most.

What would you say the guidelines are for the video?
I know a guy who sends video applications for each job, he just records himself with the webcam, nothing fancy.

Instead of a "you" centered message he sends "you" centered videos, it's the same thing you do with text.

For the profile this guy follows the same routine, with the webcam a simple presentation trying to be as selfless as posible.
 
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The-J

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I know a guy who sends video applications for each job, he just records himself with the webcam, nothing fancy.

Yea I've heard of this, too. It sets you apart and it grabs their attention: two things that are vital in a place as competitive as Upwork.

I'm wondering how I should try this?

EDIT: On second thought, I'm thinking that I should save it as a 'secret weapon' for clients that look big.
 
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@SinisterLex

Just wanted to say thanks a ton for this thread. Joined not too long ago to the FLF and contributors like you have been providing top notch advice. Followed your method when applying to Upwork and have since booked 2 gigs in the past couple of days.:smoking:

[HASHTAG]#Rackem[/HASHTAG]
 

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Some stupid question for you guys.

So I was trying to write a proposal ( or cover letter some of you may call it) for my clients.

The problem is..the UpWork interface seems to hide the details about the clients right ? Or am I missing some obvious details about the clients?

I wanted to do research on the client to write better proposals , but for the clients with 0 track records I can't even tell what their business is. For some even with track record I still can't find their business. I can't even find their name!? (company name)

I don't know if i'm blind or something but please tell me how I can find the clients' company details / Name / Anything.

Probably the dumbest question I've ever asked ..

I only see their relations with past freelancers + past hiring history etc.
 

Twiizlar

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Some stupid question for you guys.

So I was trying to write a proposal ( or cover letter some of you may call it) for my clients.

The problem is..the UpWork interface seems to hide the details about the clients right ? Or am I missing some obvious details about the clients?

I wanted to do research on the client to write better proposals , but for the clients with 0 track records I can't even tell what their business is. For some even with track record I still can't find their business. I can't even find their name!? (company name)

I don't know if i'm blind or something but please tell me how I can find the clients' company details / Name / Anything.

Probably the dumbest question I've ever asked ..

I only see their relations with past freelancers + past hiring history etc.
You only see what they provide in the job description. Some clients will not put too much details. Just ask questions at the end of your proposal so they know your interested.
 
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Disciple

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Some stupid question for you guys.

So I was trying to write a proposal ( or cover letter some of you may call it) for my clients.

The problem is..the UpWork interface seems to hide the details about the clients right ? Or am I missing some obvious details about the clients?

I wanted to do research on the client to write better proposals , but for the clients with 0 track records I can't even tell what their business is. For some even with track record I still can't find their business. I can't even find their name!? (company name)

I don't know if i'm blind or something but please tell me how I can find the clients' company details / Name / Anything.

Probably the dumbest question I've ever asked ..

I only see their relations with past freelancers + past hiring history etc.
I see the same information you mention. I do not know their name, company, and anything other than previous (and current) job postings, reviews from other freelancers, and their payment history.

If they post enough information in their job listing, I base my comments off of that. If they didn't post up enough, just ask them questions so they'll be more specific, and just follow the rules laid out in this thread anyway.
 

Disciple

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Another client contacted me this morning. If this goes through, it's pretty much 4x the price of my last job with the same number of words.

This is a big company, with more than two dozen buildings nationwide of the US. Quite intimidating. This is a trial, however, and the job isn't guaranteed. Still, I hope I impress.

If this goes through, I'll be increasing my minimum rate.
 

masterneme

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A short update:

I've been doing some work for a client during the last weeks.

They've been liking what I've been doing and now we just made an agreement for long term work.

It feels incredible being able to do something valuable for someone else.

And I'm also noticing a shift in my mindset, because even without being fastlane, I can work with people who truly appreciates my creations and invest time on the side in other stuff.

In other words, I'm starting to really understand what is chasing needs instead of money.
 
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David Fiddler

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Ok so I just have gotten started working on odesk. Instead of copy writing I want to start a social media managment company/consultancy. Since I don't have much experience I have gotten started on odesk. I Landed my first client a couple days ago (after 15+ applications). My client is very happy and they are pretty much paying me to learn social media. While I wouldnt reccomend this to everyone sometimes you just have to dive in head first.

Ok so I'm also in a situation. I charged that client $5 an hour (since I was new) but the thing is managing social media lasts for months so does that mean I won't get a 5 star feedback until this job is completely done? Because my plan was as I got 5 star feedback I would raise my rate but the job for my client is on going. Also he is giving me more work (he has multiple brands under one brand) which is good but I don't know whether I should ask for more money or not.
Hey man, you're my man. No homo.

So recently I got offered a social media management gig and while it's not my main profile, thought I could help so I figured what the hell.
It's an hourly gig, 10 hours each week and multiple accounts, just beginning.

I usually write content so I was a bit confused at first on what I'm supposed to do, read up on SMM real quick and offered the client to write up a plan of action for future social media posts/tactics I could use to get known. E-z p-z.

Now I'm at the part when I actually have to post content. But they must provide the main stuff (pics, videos, etc) and I can do the writing and the reaching out part, but it still feels goofy. How am I supposed to charge them? My regular hourly price for the whole time I just go around and post their content or do I just charge for the writing? How does this supposed to work? I don't want to overcharge them.
 

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@SinisterLex thanks for this thread. I have been on Elance over two years now and have a lot of amazing feedback apart from two.

I have a 'You' focused profile but for some strange reason the last couple of months this year I haven't been able to win any bids. Sometimes, the bids I bid on someone with a lower bid wins and from time to time someone with a higher bid wins like 8 bids.

I tried the above format of proposals shared on this thread and still I haven't won any bids. I bid on 30 jobs following the above and still haven't won any bids always lower bids win.

Here are are my numbers:

Placed over 60 bids won none.

I am also on Upwork though I haven't applied for work on there.

I am a web designer and developer.

I do though have three long term clients on Elance, which I charge $50 per hour.

I find it so discouraging at the moment but reading this thread I have some hope again.

Thanks
 

Lex DeVille

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@SinisterLex thanks for this thread. I have been on Elance over two years now and have a lot of amazing feedback apart from two.

I have a 'You' focused profile but for some strange reason the last couple of months this year I haven't been able to win any bids. Sometimes, the bids I bid on someone with a lower bid wins and from time to time someone with a higher bid wins like 8 bids.

I tried the above format of proposals shared on this thread and still I haven't won any bids. I bid on 30 jobs following the above and still haven't won any bids always lower bids win.

Here are are my numbers:

Placed over 60 bids won none.

I am also on Upwork though I haven't applied for work on there.

I am a web designer and developer.

I do though have three long term clients on Elance, which I charge $50 per hour.

I find it so discouraging at the moment but reading this thread I have some hope again.

Thanks

Hey sookie,

Have you bounced your profile or any of your applications by someone else to get feedback about how they read? Sometimes applicants try to send YOU focused cover letters but still send ME focused cover letters by accident. If you're not getting gigs, then it really boils down to one thing:

If you're not getting hired, it's because you haven't proven beyond a shadow of doubt why you're the best freelancer for the gig. You haven't proven that you can solve the client's problem better than the next guy, and until you do that, they'll keep hiring the next guy.

You mentioned sending 30 bids & 60 bids. If that means you've sent 30 or 60 applications, then I suspect you may not be putting enough time into the application and focusing on the client's specific needs. However, if you are spending a lot of time on your applications, then my next guess is that something about the way you communicate is setting off red flags for them, or you're applying to gigs that are either A.) out of your league, or B.) your price range is way out of theres.

All of this is just a guess since I haven't seen your profile. The best thing you can do is ask someone to read your profile or applications for immediate feedback, and then keep adjusting and testing different customized versions of your application until you start getting the results you want.
 
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Twiizlar

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Hey man, you're my man. No homo.

So recently I got offered a social media management gig and while it's not my main profile, thought I could help so I figured what the hell.
It's an hourly gig, 10 hours each week and multiple accounts, just beginning.

I usually write content so I was a bit confused at first on what I'm supposed to do, read up on SMM real quick and offered the client to write up a plan of action for future social media posts/tactics I could use to get known. E-z p-z.

Now I'm at the part when I actually have to post content. But they must provide the main stuff (pics, videos, etc) and I can do the writing and the reaching out part, but it still feels goofy. How am I supposed to charge them? My regular hourly price for the whole time I just go around and post their content or do I just charge for the writing? How does this supposed to work? I don't want to overcharge them.
I charge them hourly. As soon as you start working on anything related to them (posting/downloading their pics/checking post) you start the timer. You end the timer once you are done working for them for that day.

This works for me because I use several programs to schedule my posts so I only have to schedule post for around 1 hour each day. If you want to manually post throughout the day I would just work throughout the day without using the timer. At the end of the day just enter manual time for how much work you did (1 hour, 1:20 min, 2 hour, etc). Discuss with your client what the daily limit is for you (in terms of hours)
 

David Fiddler

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I charge them hourly. As soon as you start working on anything related to them (posting/downloading their pics/checking post) you start the timer. You end the timer once you are done working for them for that day.

This works for me because I use several programs to schedule my posts so I only have to schedule post for around 1 hour each day. If you want to manually post throughout the day I would just work throughout the day without using the timer. At the end of the day just enter manual time for how much work you did (1 hour, 1:20 min, 2 hour, etc). Discuss with your client what the daily limit is for you (in terms of hours)
Hey thanks, that makes sense. Think I will look after some software to make things easy for everyone. Hootsuite looks promising for starters (and it's free :D)
 

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I also have been bidding a lot without much success. When I started, I was getting a decent response rate, but now it seems like people aren't interested, even when I use the same cover letter template that I did for the first projects. Of course I tried different things and different types of templates but it still doesn't seem to work. Bit discouraging but I'll keep at it. It's probably because I haven't really figured out how to send a "You" focused application, still learning how to do it.

One thing I don't like about Upwork is that it takes around 14 days to be able to extract funds, sometimes even longer... I'm starting to get back into what I was doing before, contacting website owners directly through their websites, and asking if they need someone to help with their content. It used to work fine for me, and now that I know about "you" focused applications, hopefully the response rate will be even better. So far I made about $70 with Upwork, three jobs, and like 27 applications sent. So anyways, have to keep it up...
 
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Lex DeVille

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I also have been bidding a lot without much success. When I started, I was getting a decent response rate, but now it seems like people aren't interested, even when I use the same cover letter template that I did for the first projects. Of course I tried different things and different types of templates but it still doesn't seem to work. Bit discouraging but I'll keep at it. It's probably because I haven't really figured out how to send a "You" focused application, still learning how to do it.

One thing I don't like about Upwork is that it takes around 14 days to be able to extract funds, sometimes even longer... I'm starting to get back into what I was doing before, contacting website owners directly through their websites, and asking if they need someone to help with their content. It used to work fine for me, and now that I know about "you" focused applications, hopefully the response rate will be even better. So far I made about $70 with Upwork, three jobs, and like 27 applications sent. So anyways, have to keep it up...

Something to keep in mind is that this thread has been viewed more than 34,000 times by people just like you who were motivated into action. Instantly they learned about YOU focused applications, and began modifying their own profiles and cover letters to accommodate.

If you watch closely you'll notice that there are a limited number of gig posts on any given day, and now there are a lot of people using the same strategy to try and earn fast cash. This is why I say you have to prove beyond a shadow of doubt that you're the best candidate for the job.

Writing YOU focused messages worked for me because I was an early adapter. Nobody was doing it when I made this post several months ago. Now everybody who reads this is changing their strategy. So, you have a limited number of gigs, and a large number of candidates trying the same thing.

In short, you have competition.

The question is, what can you do differently from everyone else?

How can you set yourself apart?

Contacting website owners through their site is one strategy, and it's on the right track since you're not limited by UpWork, but do you honestly believe it sets you apart? I get 5 to 10 of these emails every week and I delete every single one of them without opening it. However, if one of these people found my address and mailed me something unique, then I might pay attention.

In fact, this happened to me recently with an ink pen company. They discovered my address, and mailed me a sales letter. They also sent a purple ink pen with my company name on it. Now I had a free ink pen in my favorite color, and it even made me feel like a business owner. Plus the sales letter wasn't bad either.

The point is, this guy did something different, and it made me stop and take notice.

If I noticed, then a lot of other people did too, and I guarantee he made plenty of sales.
 

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I am really pissed off now. Just got my first feedback (5-star) on upwork so I raised my hourly pay to $15. I received a interview from this guy and we talked on skype. We talked for 5+ hours and it was A BIG WASTE OF TIME. At the end he lowballed me and said his budget was $5/hour. I went over his website with him, his social media pages, and even his marketing plan.

What pissed me off the most is that he said this is how upwork works. It would of been nice for him to tell me in the beginning instead of after 5 hours... Oh well you live and learn.
 

Disciple

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I am really pissed off now. Just got my first feedback (5-star) on upwork so I raised my hourly pay to $15. I received a interview from this guy and we talked on skype. We talked for 5+ hours and it was A BIG WASTE OF TIME. At the end he lowballed me and said his budget was $5/hour. I went over his website with him, his social media pages, and even his marketing plan.

What pissed me off the most is that he said this is how upwork works. It would of been nice for him to tell me in the beginning instead of after 5 hours... Oh well you live and learn.
Yep.

On that note, did they actually have a budget listed on the application? Or was it an out of nowhere call?

If it was on an application, I have a few things I check for before actually sending one.
> I make sure they have a payment method verified.
> I check the money they have spent on freelancers. Any amount is fine, but having spent something is usually a great way of making sure they're likely to pay.
> The content in their job posting. While I've mentioned before that it's great to ask questions about the project, sometimes they don't even post enough to ask questions.
 
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Twiizlar

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Yep.

On that note, did they actually have a budget listed on the application? Or was it an out of nowhere call?

If it was on an application, I have a few things I check for before actually sending one.
> I make sure they have a payment method verified.
> I check the money they have spent on freelancers. Any amount is fine, but having spent something is usually a great way of making sure they're likely to pay.
> The content in their job posting. While I've mentioned before that it's great to ask questions about the project, sometimes they don't even post enough to ask questions.
They have spent over $10,000 in total. It doesnt show avg hourly pay.
There posting was really general.

They did not leave a budget(need to double check) but they wanted "$$$ expert level"
 

Disciple

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They have spent over $10,000 in total. It doesnt show avg hourly pay.
There posting was really general.

They did not leave a budget(need to double check) but they wanted "$$$ expert level"
That's odd. Yeah, expert level is crazy for $5. Sounds like he was just being cheap.

Looks like I have another requirement to put in my searches.
 

Lex DeVille

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I am really pissed off now. Just got my first feedback (5-star) on upwork so I raised my hourly pay to $15. I received a interview from this guy and we talked on skype. We talked for 5+ hours and it was A BIG WASTE OF TIME. At the end he lowballed me and said his budget was $5/hour. I went over his website with him, his social media pages, and even his marketing plan.

What pissed me off the most is that he said this is how upwork works. It would of been nice for him to tell me in the beginning instead of after 5 hours... Oh well you live and learn.

How did you spend 5 hours talking on Skype?

I guess I did say over-deliver, but damn! ;)

Generally I'll spend up to an hour for first time consults, but really there's no need for it to take that long. Once you have the interview the hard part is over. The only thing left to do is make contact with the client, make them feel good, and close the deal. Some questions are fine, but there has to be a line drawn where you say, "That's the kind of question I can answer for you when you hire me."

You shouldn't be doing most of the talking. The client should be talking and you should be listening and asking questions as needed. If you're giving a bunch of advice, then you're crossing the line into paid services and you need to bill for it.

Beyond that it's mostly a matter of good judgment. I don't like it when potential clients keep me on a Skype call for more than 20 minutes, because it shows they don't appreciate my time, and that they don't care that I'm losing money by catering to them. This is usually a sure sign that they aren't the kind of people I want to work with.

One company did this to me regularly until I started billing for the time.

Just remember, you're not interviewing to find out if you're qualified for the job. If you get the interview, then you already know you're qualified. The purpose of the interview is to discover whether or not you're a match for each other. There's really no reason this should take longer than an hour.
 
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Applying to jobs again after I got my headshot. Got several out now. Got a response from a client saying my hourly was too high so I dropped it for him, hope to secure that job.
 

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I'm having a little bit more trouble than I thought.

The interviews I had didn't pan out. Which is fine, but one thing IS bothering me.

The guy I did the work for didn't give me any feedback. I gave him feedback and he hasn't been on Upwork since. A bit frustrating, as more and more jobs are requiring a feedback score. I thought that having a job under my belt would make things easier but with no feedback I'm still at Step 1... or even Step 0 because people see 1 job with no feedback and possibly see risk.

I'm gonna use my remaining connects, make an individual cover letter (no templates) for each person, and see how well that turns out. What I need is feedback. That's the real validation.
 

Lex DeVille

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Applying to jobs again after I got my headshot. Got several out now. Got a response from a client saying my hourly was too high so I dropped it for him, hope to secure that job.

Do you think it was too high?

What if instead of lowering to please him, you explained how your service pays for itself?

I never lower mine.

If a client asks for less I just explain that when his profits increase, my service pays for itself. If he's still not on board, I remind him of the money back guarantee and that there's virtually no risk. If he's still not on board... then I may have to explain that I can't go any lower because I have clients already paying my rates and a lower amount simply isn't worth my time. I'll tell him if he can't afford it, then I completely understand and won't have any hard feelings. Then I ask him to suggest a way to make it beneficial for both of us.

You could also offer to do the first project at a lower rate and then increase the amount if he likes your work. Just make sure you let him know this up front.

Please note that I don't say these things like I write them here. Good communication takes time and practice to learn. Until you get good at it you may lose a few clients. But at least you'll learn what doesn't work. When you learn to communicate really well, then you won't have to hope to secure the job, because you'll know other jobs will follow regardless of the outcome of this one.

Always operate from a position of power.
 

Villain

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After taking the advice on this thread to heart, I went on UpWork and sent off some “you-focused” applications. I gave someone a short sample (and made it GOOD), saying they could use it whether they hired me or not.

And hey-presto, it’s turned into a lead.

So forget about the money...

Just look for ways to help people out!
 

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