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How do you stop self sabotaging for good?

Anything related to matters of the mind

Fox

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Let us know how it works out for you.

I have created a very similar schedule for myself for Q2.

  • Morning
    • Ice bath
    • Deep work
  • Noon
    • Training
  • Afternoon
    • Admin work
    • Bullshit tasks
  • Evening
    • Socializing
    • Reading 1-3 hours to exhaustion, to ensure deep sleep

How do you find training later in the day after getting the work done earlier?

I am thinking this move might help me also.

One thing though - once I get into work I love to keep going, so that is why I have been doing gym first.
 
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Fox

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I recall James Schramko's book "Work Less, Make More" was good for this. As was Perry Marshall's "80/20 Sales and Marketing" book.

Thanks Andy, just order this now. I know you have learned a lot from this guy, so will be cool to check it out.

> could you elaborate what you mean by 'uneasy'? also might help if you are able to speak on some level (we realize it is likely personal) what kind of self-sabotage and to what level. for example, if you work out hard for 3 months then binge on ice cream for 1 week, it is sort of understandable - you are not a machine and you may need to schedule in more 'fun' time weekly to teach yourself to blow off some steam. if its like, doing crack cocaine, that is a different sort of issue.

The feeling of knowing that you are capable of doing more, and not seeing what needs to change to hit it.

And I am talking over several months/years here - not like short slip ups here and there.
 

heavy_industry

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How do you find training later in the day after getting the work done earlier?

As soon as I wake up, I am bursting with happiness and creativity, and for that reason I am getting to work as soon as possible.

I feel like training in the morning instead of working would be a waste of this unique state that only lasts for 1-4 hours.

I train hard right after completing the difficult cognitive tasks in the morning, in the hopes of triggering neuroplasticity and gaining better insight about the things that I am working on. During training, I keep thinking about what I worked on in the morning, to encourage this neurologic adaptation.

One thing I might add in the future though, is some brief cardio in the morning, so the critical work tasks get sandwiched between training sessions:
  • Cardio + ice bath
  • Critical, deep work
  • Lifting weights

I'm still experimenting on what the ideal protocol would be.

For me business and fitness are equally important. I see both as long-term investments for my life. And interestingly enough, they seem to be complementing each other perfectly. The harder I train, the happier I am, the more I can work.

But one thing that I've found to be extremely important is having the discipline to be extremely consistent with this morning getting-work-done block of time.

I will post more about my experience at the end of Q2.
 

Qeno

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So... I have improved on this a lot over the years BUT I still do it sometimes.

- Reaching new levels in the gym, then stop going for a few weeks
- Hitting the best months in the business ever, then get some crazy idea and burn up a load of time
- Working off a great plan, see a lot of progress, then throw out the plan for no reason

For people on a high level here, what advice would you give to those who do this?

I have worked on myself for years, but still feel there is some piece of the puzzle that maybe I'm overlooking.
And I have also done a lot of work to find the right answer, but I feel like maybe the question I am asking is wrong.

Thank you!
I am also not even close to where you are, but I would like to say what came to my brain immediately after I read your post. For me, it seemed that you don't recognize when you are leaving a phase. Maybe it could help if you started journaling (possibly just for the recognizing part) to know where you are at, at the moment.
I wish you all the best!
 
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heavy_industry

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Maybe it could help if you started journaling (possibly just for the recognizing part) to know where you are at, at the moment.
It's interesting that you say this.

Since the beginning of 2023, I've started to log the execution of the daily process in a notebook.

This has given me an unusual amount of insight and self-awareness, because I can always turn the pages back and see what I did right, and what I did wrong.

Now it's easy to establish cause-and-effect relationship between what I do, and what happens as a result of my actions.
 

Qeno

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It's interesting that you say this.

Since the beginning of 2023, I've started to log the execution of the daily process in a notebook.

This has given me an unusual amount of insight and self-awareness, because I can always turn the pages back and see what I did right, and what I did wrong.

Now it's easy to establish cause-and-effect relationship between what I do, and what happens as a result of my actions.
Yeah, it worked for me for a long time, but since a few years it stopped. But as I read your post I thought: "hmm, this could also work for me". So I'll also try out to log the daily execution process.
Thank you very much !
 

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So... I have improved on this a lot over the years BUT I still do it sometimes.

- Reaching new levels in the gym, then stop going for a few weeks
- Hitting the best months in the business ever, then get some crazy idea and burn up a load of time
- Working off a great plan, see a lot of progress, then throw out the plan for no reason

For people on a high level here, what advice would you give to those who do this?

I have worked on myself for years, but still feel there is some piece of the puzzle that maybe I'm overlooking.
And I have also done a lot of work to find the right answer, but I feel like maybe the question I am asking is wrong.

Thank you!

I'm going to take an alternative stance here and say that it looks like you're asking how to stop being human.

And although that's the wet dream of the likes of Elon Musk and other transhumanist shmucks, I think it's masochistic to entertain this question for the average person (barring any sociopathic tendencies and desires of world domination).

Someone even mentioned therapy. And for what?

It's in our nature to take steps back and forth. But as long as you're taking two steps forth for every one step back, you're fine.

Also, in marketing, there's the popular saying "When in doubt, zoom out" i.e. if you're happier and richer than you were last year, you're good. And if you're not, then it's highly unlikely that more money and success will change that.

P.S. Regarding "unlocking" your full potential—are you certain that's what you really want, or are you secretly content with your current situation and feel like you "should" be doing more?

Because if unlocking your full potential was an actual need of yours, I doubt you'd be having trouble with this.

Living life by your rules and desires is much more fulfilling than going with what others expect of you. A movie that showcases this is "Good Will Hunting".
 
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biophase

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So... I have improved on this a lot over the years BUT I still do it sometimes.

- Reaching new levels in the gym, then stop going for a few weeks
I never have thoughts like this. I never think wow I’m doing so good at the gym. I’m really gaining.
- Hitting the best months in the business ever, then get some crazy idea and burn up a load of time
I don’t think, wow I’m having a great month. It’s just a great month. That’s it. End of thought.

- Working off a great plan, see a lot of progress, then throw out the plan for no reason

For people on a high level here, what advice would you give to those who do this?
I think as a result, there’s no self sabotage because I don’t feel like there’s anything to sabotage.

Maybe I just don’t feel like I’m ever going get to any place special. It’s just a steady climb.

But literally just writing this in the last word reminded me of when I mountain bike. There is a trail that is a very hard climb that I have only been able to do two times in my life without stopping. I have ridden this trail over 30 times.

Each of those 2 times i made it I thought I could get to the top without stopping before I even started. Every other try I had doubt and when I passed milestones, doubt creeped into my head. This has led me to quitting halfway up all the time.

So maybe it’s just to assume and have confidence that you will get to your goal. Then there’s never any exceeding expectation thoughts going into your head.
 

WJK

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So... I have improved on this a lot over the years BUT I still do it sometimes.

- Reaching new levels in the gym, then stop going for a few weeks
- Hitting the best months in the business ever, then get some crazy idea and burn up a load of time
- Working off a great plan, see a lot of progress, then throw out the plan for no reason

For people on a high level here, what advice would you give to those who do this?

I have worked on myself for years, but still feel there is some piece of the puzzle that maybe I'm overlooking.
And I have also done a lot of work to find the right answer, but I feel like maybe the question I am asking is wrong.

Thank you!
Your question is one that only you can answer. How do feel when you make these U-turns?
Are you afraid of success or who you are becoming?
Are you feeling like you have "arrived" and you don't have to strive anymore?
Are you getting a lot of peer pressure? A lot of times the people around you become jealous and try to lure you back to your prior status.
Are you just plain tired? Are you overworking yourself and wearing yourself out?

And the list goes on...
 

Black_Dragon43

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Sounds like what’s holding you back @Fox may be lack of self-esteem, specifically the emotional component of self-esteem.

Intellectually, you know and believe you deserve great things. Which is where the pressure you feel comes from.

But emotionally you self-sabotage because, I presume, you don’t FEEL you DESERVE that success.

It’s a very hard thing to change, because it’s about what you FEEL, not what you THINK. The thinking you already have nailed.

For me, I don’t have shiny object because I’m lazy. I know I could make $500K/mo if I switched to ecommerce, but I make $50K+/mo doing what I already know, at much higher margins, so I don’t want to face the unknown of switching. I’d rather grow what I have because it would take so much work to learn and set up something new, and I’m already a master at what I have going. So if I hear about a new opportunity, immediately all the uncertainty and problems ahead spring to mind, so I stick with what I have, where there are few problems and I naturally know how to solve them.
 
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m0ntilla21

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So... I have improved on this a lot over the years BUT I still do it sometimes.

- Reaching new levels in the gym, then stop going for a few weeks
- Hitting the best months in the business ever, then get some crazy idea and burn up a load of time
- Working off a great plan, see a lot of progress, then throw out the plan for no reason

For people on a high level here, what advice would you give to those who do this?

I have worked on myself for years, but still feel there is some piece of the puzzle that maybe I'm overlooking.
And I have also done a lot of work to find the right answer, but I feel like maybe the question I am asking is wrong.

Thank you!

Hey Fox, I have felt exactly the same for years, and the Pattern is still there. Recent crash / derail... like 2 months ago and I am still not really "perfectly on track".

I really relate to you and also gave this matter a lot of thought.

Recently I re-visited the old metaphor of the "thermostate" on a Darren Hardy's seminar. I am pretty sure you are familiar with the concept. I thought that, in my case, that might the issue.

Let me transcript that part for you:

"Basically, a thermostat adjusts the temperature automatically, if it's at 20º and it goes too high... it activates to bring it down to 20º. If it goes too low... it is also triggered to go again up to 20º.

Each of us has an internal "thermostat" that defines our current level of "self-worth", fitness, personal development... or earning capacity.

And no matter what happens on the outside... you always get back to that level or sabotage yourself to get back to that level.

In other words, you will only have on the outside...what fits what you have on the inside.

When you elevate your base point, your self-worth...through:

- Personal Development
- Mindset
- Philosophy
- Attitude
- Skills...

...Then EVERYTHING in your life will ascend accordingly."


I can attest to this, it happens to me all the time.

I undernstand that you are killing it as an entrepreneur and feel already on a really "high-level", at least compared to the people around you. I have been feeling the same for many years now, but when I think about the "famous" entrepreneurs... I can see that I have not accomplished that much, at least if I compare myself with people makin 10, 100 o 1000x what I do.

I think that upgrading you mentors / relationships might be really on point. And the thermostat will always be there, just on another set temperature.
 

Fox

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I never have thoughts like this. I never think wow I’m doing so good at the gym. I’m really gaining.

I don’t think, wow I’m having a great month. It’s just a great month. That’s it. End of thought.


I think as a result, there’s no self sabotage because I don’t feel like there’s anything to sabotage.

Maybe I just don’t feel like I’m ever going get to any place special. It’s just a steady climb.

But literally just writing this in the last word reminded me of when I mountain bike. There is a trail that is a very hard climb that I have only been able to do two times in my life without stopping. I have ridden this trail over 30 times.

Each of those 2 times i made it I thought I could get to the top without stopping before I even started. Every other try I had doubt and when I passed milestones, doubt creeped into my head. This has led me to quitting halfway up all the time.

So maybe it’s just to assume and have confidence that you will get to your goal. Then there’s never any exceeding expectation thoughts going into your head.

This is really interesting, and I was curious if you would post in this thread.

So, let's say back earlier in your journey... did you ever have to work on instilling this confidence ground work, or boosting up your confidence to an even higher new level when you wanted to step up your goals.

Like I would say I am confident, but at the level I am at.
So now the challenge is - how do I get the confidence of someone at 5-10x my level?
 

Fox

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Your question is one that only you can answer. How do feel when you make these U-turns?
Are you afraid of success or who you are becoming?
Are you feeling like you have "arrived" and you don't have to strive anymore?
Are you getting a lot of peer pressure? A lot of times the people around you become jealous and try to lure you back to your prior status.
Are you just plain tired? Are you overworking yourself and wearing yourself out?

And the list goes on...

I will have to think over these more

At a quick glance I would say no - yet here I am making this thread.

I am still working on all the advice in this thread, so probably over time I can answer these better and show what worked.

Thanks for the post @WJK
 
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Fox

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I think that upgrading you mentors / relationships might be really on point. And the thermostat will always be there, just on another set temperature.

Ya great point, and since I started this thread I have gotten to work on this right away.

- Made quite a few new connections with top people in my niche.
- Invested in a few different coaching programs / private communities.
- Cut back time with a few people who aren't aligned with my goals.
- I am watching my own self talk and thoughts closely.
 

biophase

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A quick sports story. Not even real sports LOL. I play VR golf with my old college roommate a few nights a week.

He has a very specific problem that makes him lose to me about 90% of the time.
1) When he is winning by alot, he starts to worry and begins to play not to lose and tighten up. The pressure of maintaining a lead causes him to lose.
2) When we are tied or close, he plays his best.
3) When he is losing and the game is getting away from him, he kind of just gives up, doesn't really care to finish the game with skill. He goes for the hard shots to try to catch up and ends up +20 more.

He has such a tight range of playing his best. It's when we are within 2-3 strokes of each other.

What I've noticed about me is that I play each hole the same whether I'm up by 5 or down by 10. If the game is lost and there's no way for me to win. I still try my best to get the ball in the hole. I tell him I play like Iceman from Top Gun. I don't care where he's at, I just do my thing.

My friend's problem is that he is always aware of where he is. I tell him to just play each hole in a vacuum. But he can't.

Because I win about 90% of the time. He now expects to lose, so when he's up, he self sabotages. When he's down, he expects it. It's kind of a no win situation.

So @Fox, just do your thing without keep score and one day you'll lookup and have $1M in your account and not even know!

PS: We play because he works a long day job and the VR golf is his "getaway" from real life.
 

nopalmer

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He now expects to lose, so when he's up, he self sabotages.
That's it. It is amazing how powerful the human brain is and it doesn't always use these "powers" for good. These universal patterns (like self-sabotage) lots of us have to fight come from deep unconscious levels and that's exactly why it's so difficult to change them. The first step though is to recognize it and then it becomes a bit easier to come up with a strategy to change your pattern. A bit easier, but never easy. Wish I had a piece of practical advice to share, sorry, I've just always been interested in what drives us, what keeps us down, things like that.
 
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rjdgreat

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hey mr @Fox I am curious if you're just one junk food away to be fallible?
 

WJK

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I will have to think over these more

At a quick glance I would say no - yet here I am making this thread.

I am still working on all the advice in this thread, so probably over time I can answer these better and show what worked.

Thanks for the post @WJK
You must back up just a little bit when you ask yourself the questions. At what point did you lose your direction? A lot of times something happens that feels minor at that moment. What happened that deflated your will to continue? Talk to your guy in the mirror before you say no.

It's called self-defeating behavior. You do all the right stuff for a time and then you just quit. Things go on for a little bit, and then they run out of energy. Sometimes it is sudden and other times they just slowly lose their momentum. I see this in sales all the time. The salesman works and works creating a bunch of sales. Then he quits generating new business and his sales fall off. He goes out and works at it again to raise his sales. And when he gets his sales up, he quits again. It's a yo-yo kind of life that causes great stress. He adds to his stress by spending like a drunken sailor and borrowing a lot of money while he makes a lot of sales. When his income is down, this heaps on more stress. This is a lifestyle issue that usually ends up in a lot of problems like bankruptcy court and divorce court. Ouch!
 

PapaGang

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I can tell you are a high achiever and you probably set even higher standards for yourself. This push/pull is probably healthy.

In my experience it's never over. I've been on top of my game for five years, then I go in the valley for two. It's a never ending battle—or maybe a side quest—to stay on top of things.

You probably have 22 methods now to try out from all the contributors here, but in February I had asked myself the same question, and I found the following from Tony Robbins. I can't find the link to the YouTube clip, but I took some notes. I hope it's insightful:

Why do people sabotage?
People sabotage for good reasons, and for a benefit.
Your brain is not built to make you happy, it’s built to make you survive.
Your brain is trying to protect you from danger, instability, the unknown, and former painful experiences.

Example: “because I’ve had bad experiences in the past concerning my current situation and I’m trying to guard against that.”

Sometimes the brain receives mixed signals (I know this will do me good, but it's painful and inconvenient, and why bother?)

When your brain experiences mixed signals, it tries to stop the process, which then leads to sabotage and then you get pulled into some weird shame-loop cycle that can turn into a nasty habit.

Now you have to change that narrative.

Think about:
What happens if you do nothing?
How much pain will that cause, for you and your family?

1. Identify the behavior
2. Ask what the payoff is (the positive intent)
3. Get some leverage so you can make the change. Tell your brain the painful outcome, have a conversation with yourself, outline the consequences of not following through.
4. Pattern interruption — do something outrageous — Simple, humorous, effective.
5. Condition yourself to have new feelings —see yourself succeed.

I also found a shortcut.

When my motivation is down and I know I need to work out, I immediately tell myself
"There's no discussion to be had. We already had the meeting. I'm not giving you the ammo."

That might sound schizophrenic, but I know how powerful my lizard brain (the heckler) is.
So F*ck him.
 
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biophase

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This is really interesting, and I was curious if you would post in this thread.

So, let's say back earlier in your journey... did you ever have to work on instilling this confidence ground work, or boosting up your confidence to an even higher new level when you wanted to step up your goals.

Like I would say I am confident, but at the level I am at.
So now the challenge is - how do I get the confidence of someone at 5-10x my level?
Alot of this comes from ego and judging. If you can tame the ego and not give a shit about what anybody else thinks, then you become free of judgement and also self judgement.

I have a silicon valley friend that would often text me during his executive meetings. He would say things like, I'm sitting at a table and everyone here is much richer than me. But during the same meeting he would say, everyone here is old and fat.

I found it funny that he feels inferior to others in terms of money, but at the same time superior because he's ripped.

I explained to him, that we judge based on what's important to us. If money and health is important to us. We then judge others by the same metric. I noticed he never has texted me about their watches or brand of suits. It's because he doesn't care about that, so he doesn't notice what they are wearing.

So imagine if you don't judge yourself by money or health. Then you wouldn't judge others by it either.

When that ego goes away. You don't judge yourself, you just exist. I know this sounds very woo woo, it's probably the ayahuasca talking, but maybe the lack of confidence is coming from judging and comparing.

I mean if all my friends were billionaires and I'm worth $10m, should I be happy of sad? Am I happy that my friends all have jets and yachts and I get to go on them. Or am I sad, because they all have so much more money than me? Or am I just a person with $10m and a bunch of friends?
 

biophase

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Like I would say I am confident, but at the level I am at.
So now the challenge is - how do I get the confidence of someone at 5-10x my level?
Sorry, I totally skipped answering your question.

I think this is a skill question, not a confidence one. You get confidence at 5-10x by 5-10xing your skill.

If you shoved me into a ballet dance show right now. I would be embarrassed and scared. I would make a fool of myself. Was that because I wasn't confident? No, it's because I was incompetent.

But give me 6 months of practice, and push me into the same show. I would walk on stage with a different swagger, confidence level x10.
 

Kung Fu Steve

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Still so damn hard on yourself.

What if you traded some of those expectations for appreciation? What if instead of focusing on all the stuff you're NOT doing, you stop and consider the things you ARE doing?

Failure is making things less important than they really are... but stress is making things MORE important than they really are.

Both of those are a result of your current rules.

What are your rules? When's the last time you evaluated?

"For me to be successful I have to ______________."

"For me to fail, I would have to ____________."

"For me to be happy, I have to _______________."

You're in phenomenal shape. Do you HAVE to go to the gym every day and eat perfectly just to feel like you're in shape?

You're a very successful business man. Do you HAVE to work 24/7 to keep that success? If you enjoy your life is that against your own internal rules?

What about success? Are you only allowed to have so much (otherwise you'd be ___________).

There is no such thing as self-sabotage -- you are only living out your current programming.

And that program revolves around your rules, beliefs, and values.

Time for a refresher! Identify your current rules and you might see what's actually going on here.
 
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So much gold in this thread, I'll go ahead and take some notes. Will try to implement some of the advice here.

Thank you everyone for the comments, and thank you @Fox for starting the thread. It ended up being a top-quality discussion, as it seems like this is something every human being is experiencing to some extent, regardless of their current level of success or lack thereof.

There is a lot of useful advice and interesting takes on this issue, but this really hit me:

There is no such thing as self-sabotage -- you are only living out your current programming.
 

PapaGang

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Still so damn hard on yourself.

What if you traded some of those expectations for appreciation? What if instead of focusing on all the stuff you're NOT doing, you stop and consider the things you ARE doing?

Failure is making things less important than they really are... but stress is making things MORE important than they really are.

Both of those are a result of your current rules.

What are your rules? When's the last time you evaluated?

"For me to be successful I have to ______________."

"For me to fail, I would have to ____________."

"For me to be happy, I have to _______________."

You're in phenomenal shape. Do you HAVE to go to the gym every day and eat perfectly just to feel like you're in shape?

You're a very successful business man. Do you HAVE to work 24/7 to keep that success? If you enjoy your life is that against your own internal rules?

What about success? Are you only allowed to have so much (otherwise you'd be ___________).

There is no such thing as self-sabotage -- you are only living out your current programming.

And that program revolves around your rules, beliefs, and values.

Time for a refresher! Identify your current rules and you might see what's actually going on here.
 

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monnffffiiiiiii

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Do some shadow work.

Best is to do it with hypnotherapy. Read some basic stuff on how the mind works (Jung + Freud + Girard, use chatgpt for that) and book a 2-hour session with an experienced hypnotherapist.

I did 3 sessions of two hours and it *transformed* me.
 
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monnffffiiiiiii

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Can you elaborate?
When you're born, you're born whole.

As you age, two things are going to happen:

1. You are going to get trauma
2. People and society are going to tell you not to do or say stuff, and you'll put these stuff in your subconscious.

These two things weigh in your subconscious and prevent you from growing.

You solve traumas when you relive the experience, process it, and accept it. Hypnotherapy or CBT considerably help with that. But you can also simply write about it.

As for number 2, it's a bit harder because these things your parents told you not to do (Eg: don't talk to strangers) are in your subconscious, so you dont really know that they're there.

Your task is to make them conscious so you can integrate them (it's called doing shadow work). Hypnotherapy helps with that as well because it's a door to your subconscious.

It shows you all of the things you have been repressing. Once you integrate these stuff, you free energy and free yourself from your fear.

None of this is rocket science, just a watered-down version of what Jung has written.

People that self-sabotage inherently believe they don't deserve more than what they have. It can be due to a wicked sense of fairness, to low self-esteem, to masochism, to love for problems and drama...there are many reasons. That's why hypnotherapy is great: you can easily and quickly find the reason.

Simply sit and think about it won't get you very far. Tony Robbins won't get you any further.

Hope that answers your question good ser.
 

Ing

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Congratulations to your future kid!

When you get older, Concentrate on the 80/20 aspect!

Your 80 intersts will get different to those you have now. Don’t be afraid to change them. I e for your kids.

Make your health to a top aspect of the 80%!

Why not to follow my advice: In hinsight of entrepreneurship, I m not 2% of you.

But maybe it can qualify, that I rose two boys.

Wish you the best!
 
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2legit2quit

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"You solve traumas when you relive the experience, process it, and accept it"

this is one perspective, there are some trauma modalities that actually say not to relive the whole trauma experience, but to come near it.

for example, one is called 'somatic experiencing' based off of an evolutionary biologist perspective on observations of how animals deal with fear.

it deals more with the body, than the mind (although it deals with the mind). SE focuses on how trauma gets stored in the body.

i've done it before, i found it quite helpful.
 
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GuestUser4aMPs1

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So @Fox, just do your thing without keep score and one day you'll lookup and have $1M in your account and not even know!

There's not much else I can add to a thread full of Gold. But I want to emphasize this.

"Do the work today and the results will take care of themselves."

I have a very simple lifting routine. Compound movements with heavy rocks / Kettlebells (kid you not).

Max 12 reps per muscle group. Max 5 sets. Leave. Come back in 2 days and find a heavier rock.

I'm not tracking weights. I'm not tracking workout performance. I'm not tracking anything.

Why?

Because I will absolutely f*** off when I think I'm ahead.

"Nah don't have to work too hard today I'm good!" <--- That's a lie.

So, nowadays I HAVE to hyper-focus on what needs to be done *today* and nothing else.
Or else I fall back into that trap. I haven't found any other way around it.

Good news is, what @biophase said is 100% true. I'm the strongest I've ever been from that routine, and it's because I never take the time to acknowledge anything except that I checked off the box today.

Not that I did yesterday. Not because the results are great. But that today, I did it.

"Do the work today and the results will take care of themselves."

And if I ever think I can slack off, I remember a line from a good book.

——

Proverbs 24:33-34
"A little sleep, a little slumber,
a little folding of the hands to rest,
and poverty will come upon you like a robber,
and want like an armed man."

——
 
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