Freedom vs. Children

[Waylon]

This is my first post after reading these forums for months. Is there a niche for the homeschooling parent? So many do this and there has to be something. Any feedback is welcome.

 

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[Delmania]

This is my first post after reading these forums for months. Is there a niche for the homeschooling parent? So many do this and there has to be something. Any feedback is welcome.

A basic internet search would answer that for you. However, homeschooling is not a niche as you may think. You need to find a segment in that market and go after them.

Technology will eventually surpass biology.
You can either become immortal by leaving a legacy behind or create another unnecessary human.

Let's drive this to its logical conclusion. In approximately 5 billion years, the sun will run out fuel and it swell up into a white dwarf. The earth will be eradicated when this happens. There is a slight chance by that time, we will have discovered another planet we can survive on, and an even slighter chance we will have developed a means to get there. Furthermore, even if we do survive that, the Universe itself will run out of energy and collapse into a low energy state where only subatomic particles will exist. (That's one theory). Unless the various religions are correct about the existence of a supernatural entity, once the universe goes, that's it. Time is (literally) up. Existential nihilism is a great framing device, because ultimately, everything we do is useless and unnecessary.

In the meantime, while I await end End of Time, I am going to enjoy the moments I have with my children. Some people want children, some people don't. This is one of those amazing times when there is no right answer, just opinions.

 

[Seeker]

I'm actually amazed how much feedback my first real thread got here and it's interesting to see that so many voted pro children. I've expected more hardliners, but happy that there are so many mature opinions.

Look Elon deeply into the eyes and tell him that you don't have enough time to have any children.

Well I don't say, I don't have the time. It's absolutely possible but also a lot harder. The question is how much quality time can Elon spend with each of his children per day?
While thinking about it, he might actually have quite some time. But while he still does amazing things, he's more of a post-Fastlaner to me. His monetizing event happened years ago with paypal, giving him the freedom to do whatever he wants (which seems to be making children apart from Tesla and Space X). And so I guess his current projects don't demand 16 hour workdays anymore because he's able to hire great people who do the work for him while he is pulling the strings behind the scenes and is the creative mind...

 

[Mineralogic]

A basic internet search would answer that for you. However, homeschooling is not a niche as you may think. You need to find a segment in that market and go after them.



Let's drive this to its logical conclusion. In approximately 5 billion years, the sun will run out fuel and it swell up into a white dwarf. The earth will be eradicated when this happens. There is a slight chance by that time, we will have discovered another planet we can survive on, and an even slighter chance we will have developed a means to get there. Furthermore, even if we do survive that, the Universe itself will run out of energy and collapse into a low energy state where only subatomic particles will exist. (That's one theory). Unless the various religions are correct about the existence of a supernatural entity, once the universe goes, that's it. Time is (literally) up. Existential nihilism is a great framing device, because ultimately, everything we do is useless and unnecessary.

In the meantime, while I await end End of Time, I am going to enjoy the moments I have with my children. Some people want children, some people don't. This is one of those amazing times when there is no right answer, just opinions.

My big point is we need more freedom loving,

I'm actually amazed how much feedback my first real thread got here and it's interesting to see that so many voted pro children. I've expected more hardliners, but happy that there are so many mature opinions.


Well I don't say, I don't have the time. It's absolutely possible but also a lot harder. The question is how much quality time can Elon spend with each of his children per day?
While thinking about it, he might actually have quite some time. But while he still does amazing things, he's more of a post-Fastlaner to me. His monetizing event happened years ago with paypal, giving him the freedom to do whatever he wants (which seems to be making children apart from Tesla and Space X). And so I guess his current projects don't demand 16 hour workdays anymore because he's able to hire great people who do the work for him while he is pulling the strings behind the scenes and is the creative mind...

I find it extremely interesting that decades ago it could be viewed as having kids as not only legacy builder but as TIME/Money builder to the parents at some point! In other words, parents might have looked at the risk/reward favorably ( as kids actually helped on the farm, or helped chores around the house, mowing lawn etc). Today, they are viewed as money/time wasters either because the financial system/inflation toll has kicked in or because of the culture we seek. Why would you want kids if its true your kids live in your house until they are 27, demand to go to college without any real reason too( one can take harvard/yale level courses for free online now), and take away? To me it seems the system costs , the massive debt and long term inflation, etc are finally rearing their heads

 

[Bouncing Soul]

I really doubt Elon has the time for his kids I would find acceptable. But there's no way to know. There's also no "right" answer, and I am glad he's doing what he's doing.

 

[Mineralogic]

I really doubt Elon has the time for his kids I would find acceptable. But there's no way to know. There's also no "right" answer, and I am glad he's doing what he's doing.

Elon- ( EL-ON) has time for everything including leading several public companies. IN fact he has so much time that is why he is able to do all of this

 

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[DayIFly]

If you begin to think about children, the relationship is pretty serious, isn't it?

The question then is: Does your wife want any children?

If the answer is yes, you then have to take into account the biological clock. In accordance to Wikipedia the fertility drops dramatically at age 35 (and peaks in the early and mid-20s).

The answer then is rather easy. If you don't want any children, you need to talk about this to not waste her time. Maybe there is a mismatch in regards to the expectations you both have.

That's my 2 cents

 

[Delmania]

My big point is we need more freedom loving,

I find it extremely interesting that decades ago it could be viewed as having kids as not only legacy builder but as TIME/Money builder to the parents at some point! In other words, parents might have looked at the risk/reward favorably ( as kids actually helped on the farm, or helped chores around the house, mowing lawn etc). Today, they are viewed as money/time wasters either because the financial system/inflation toll has kicked in or because of the culture we seek. Why would you want kids if its true your kids live in your house until they are 27, demand to go to college without any real reason too( one can take harvard/yale level courses for free online now), and take away? To me it seems the system costs , the massive debt and long term inflation, etc are finally rearing their heads

Holy crap, did you have a bad childhood? Children are probably one of the most visceral forms of "you get out what you put in". If your is lazing about until 27, demanding to go to college, and then leaving you, I think I'd say you have utterly failed as a parent to raise your child. Children only incur a debt like that if you let them. They also infringe on your precious freedom only if you let them. I know of people who have gone on road trips with their children as opposed to sending them to schools. I know of people who have built successful businesses with children. I'm not sure what freedom you're talking about? The freedom to go drinking on the weekends and not care?

 

[Texan]

This is an interesting thread. Are kids time suckers? Yes - they can be. I have my business structured so I can hang out with them as much as possible and so we can do things as a family other people can't do.

But I get that that's not for everyone. To each their own, man.

 

[marklov]

 

[carswest]

There is no balance, you either spend time with family or you make money. What could be better is you make money first, then you spend time with family. lol.
I have two kids, absolutely love it. I believe seeing and holding my daughter for the first time was the best moment in my life, period, and I am sad for those who cannot experience it. Traveling, luxury houses, fancy cars cannot buy this feeling. As someone said on this thread I'd also give all my money, properties and businesses for my two kids in heartbeat.

 

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[ChrisJTurner]

Every time I get to speak with parents (single parents more often than not), they all seem to pretend that life is all roses and everything is perfect.
However, after talking a little while longer, it normally transpires that things are not as good as they seem, because most of them dream of the single life.
No life, no money and just a heck load of drama.
Ok, they wont change their children for the world but I have spoke to many people who, if they had their chance again, they would choose to wait or not have children.

Also, many people in this modern age are just picking any partner to have children with, this is so so damaging to society.
I guess everything is disposable nowadays, even partners.
I think one of the reasons for this trend is third wave feminism.
Dont get me wrong, feminism has its place but it has taught women that they "can do it all" and men are redundant, which is one of the reasons for the rise in single parenthood. In fact, no parent can do it all. A child needs a mother and a father as a role model.
The above doesn't account for the amount of dumb people having kids. Dumb people parenting dumb children... this is bad for the evolution of our species.

I have also seen and had many friends been dragged through the family law court system, to have their children, homes and money swiped away by selfish partners, which is generally in favour of women, unfairly.

For these reason above, I am glad I had my vasectomy last year. Its my ticket to life, travel, fun and motorbikes.

I will say, I have met some families who have the whole parenting, fianancies and awesome kids nailed down to a T. I envy them and many other parents do.

 

[eekern]

If you begin to think about children, the relationship is pretty serious, isn't it?

The question then is: Does your wife want any children?

If the answer is yes, you then have to take into account the biological clock. In accordance to Wikipedia the fertility drops dramatically at age 35 (and peaks in the early and mid-20s).

The answer then is rather easy. If you don't want any children, you need to talk about this to not waste her time. Maybe there is a mismatch in regards to the expectations you both have.

That's my 2 cents

Exactly ! This is a thread for the serious fastlane couples who are ready to get a child, but wonder if they should wait or get a child at all. If you are not agreeing on this topic the relationship needs to end.

 

[Jake]

Its my ticket to life, travel, fun

My little freedom stealer doesn't let me have any fun

 

[ChrisJTurner]

My little freedom stealer doesn't let me have any fun

Choices my friend, choices

 

[HyperFocus]

I personally have never wanted kids -I have zero maternal instinct but was always made to question what was wrong with me by the adults in my life who adamantly proclaimed "You'll change your mind" or worse- "It will just happen eventually." F*ck no it won't. You underestimate my level of dedication to creating a fool-proof plan.

The older I became, I've realized that many (most?) people become parents by accident (or stupidity, or lack of planning) & then just decide to roll with it (because, really, what else can you do?). I have never wanted that life & that scenario terrifies me. I'm the first to admit that I don't want the emotional turmoil or responsibility of being in charge of another human life. I couldn't handle it. I don't want to handle it. I won't handle it.

That being said, I'm the most excited person in the room when I have a friend who has finally conceived after a long fight with infertility -why? Because they're getting the desires of their heart. And they deserve that. And I'm happy for them. I love getting the family Christmas cards in the mail that have family pictures. I love seeing people build their families & the kiddos growing into their own personalities & quirks. It's pretty cool to watch. Then, at the end of the day, I get to go home with my husband & enjoy our quiet, peaceful home. And it makes me smile, because it's what I've always wanted.

tl;dr: do whatever the F*ck makes you happy.

Still 99% sure youll change your mind. [emoji16] of course you could be the exception.

I wonder why so many people, especially young females, think they know what they will feel in the future. In the end almost all of them strongly desire kids, biology.

I also dont want any kids, but Im sure that will change with time. Raising a kid is beaitiful

Last point: not wanting something because its scary is not a healthy way to look at your life. Unfortunately most people seek the path of least resistance, yet they dont realize it makes their life harder in the long term.


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[Mineralogic]

Holy crap, did you have a bad childhood? Children are probably one of the most visceral forms of "you get out what you put in". If your is lazing about until 27, demanding to go to college, and then leaving you, I think I'd say you have utterly failed as a parent to raise your child. Children only incur a debt like that if you let them. They also infringe on your precious freedom only if you let them. I know of people who have gone on road trips with their children as opposed to sending them to schools. I know of people who have built successful businesses with children. I'm not sure what freedom you're talking about? The freedom to go drinking on the weekends and not care?

what are you talking about? I know people who are still living with their parents in their 20s, just like the crap you hear about online ...these are kids who 40 years ago would almost all be having kids now themselves! The financial chaos of this country is encouraging less kids now at least amongst those who want to live a certain lifestyle

 

[MJ DeMarco]

Elon- ( EL-ON) has time for everything including leading several public companies.

I bet his first wife would disagree.

 

[Bouncing Soul]

I bet his first wife would disagree.

EXACTLY

 

[ChickenHawk]

I am older than most of you.

I have children older than most of yours. I have a child younger than most of yours. I have more freedom than most of you. Freedom is not mutually exclusive from children.

I'm thankful for this, and here's why. When you see smart people having kids AND fulfilling their dreams, it's one step against the rising tide of idiocracy. (See the movie "Idiocracy" if you don't know what I'm referring to.)

@ChickenHawk was a middle aged working Mom before she penned a book that allowed her to quit her job. She has more freedom than most of you.

Thanks for the shout-out! It's true. I was working full time and had a grade-schooler. It meant I didn't get a lot of sleep while penning that breakout novel, but man, has it been worth it. Right now, I'm literally on a mountain top, overlooking a beautiful valley, and working from home on my own schedule.

Here's the thing about kids. Short-term, they're a crappy investment. They take a ton of resources and give almost nothing back. You work and work and work and work while watching your child-free friends "living it up." Does this sound familiar? It should, because having kids is a lot like building a passive income stream. The best payouts come later. When my kid was a baby, he was a ton of work, especially because he NEVER slept. Now, he's 13, and he's so much fun. I love his conversation. I love spending time with him. He cracks me up, and gets my jokes. His friends make life exciting, too. Later on, he'll be the kid who comes home for the holidays and (hopefully) gives me grandkids. It will be the best investment I ever made.

When my son was a baby, I was like, "OMG< what the heck was I thinking?????" Now I'm like, "Dang. I should've had a couple of more."

 

[RHL]

Parenthood isn't right for everyone. People who know that about themselves aren't selfish, they might just be acting sensibly.

For some people, kids devour your time. For others, it provides you with the laser focus that will keep you awake in the early watches of the night and hungry at all times. If you got a sensible spouse, they don't *need* you like your kid does. My wife's quality of life would be fine without me, she makes a decent living and has her crap in order. Her house would be a lot neater too, I tend to "blow up" my work spaces.

But kids, you're all they've got. What you do for them is shouldering a burden they couldn't begin to lift on their own. Your success or failure alters the course of their life, maybe for generations. Your ability to suffer in silence and austerity during the building phase is going to be the mold that shapes their own greatness. When my Dad's business failed, he, with his degrees and experience that would look at home in the boardroom of Goldman or Facebook or anything else, took one day to mourn, then he went out and worked as a contractor doing roofing the next day, at 55 years old, worked 10 hours a day, then came home and worked on job applications at night until almost midnight, so even though our income came way down, we immediately had money coming in so we wouldn't go into debt rather than waiting for the phone to ring for months like many people do.

I'll forget my own name before I forget that memory. You're a lot less afraid of getting your a$$ kicked in life when you've had role models who've gotten over it and prevailed.

Like anything in life, if you really want it, you'll find a way. If you don't want it, people are different, and that's great. Just don't ever let fear or uncertainty stop you.

I talked to a kid who was 16 at a car show the other day ogling a Diablo and, his Dad offered "better study harder," and he came back with "I could never get one, it's just completely unattainable." Made me think of MJ. Anything's unattainable or unworkable or undoable if you give up before you even try. If you don't want kids, know it and own it like @Red. If you're not sure, do more research. If you're sure, don't be afraid. Just figure out what you want and take methodical action to make it happen.

I'm thankful for this, and here's why. When you see smart people having kids AND fulfilling their dreams, it's one step against the rising tide of idiocracy. (See the movie "Idiocracy" if you don't know what I'm referring to.)

Yeah, every time I think children aren't for me, look at the 20 year olds in Wal-Mart that already have 3 kids and it strengthens my resolve to at least try.

 

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[Red]

Still 99% sure youll change your mind.

With all due respect, F*ck you.

 

[SteveO]

With all due respect, F*ck you.

I love this non-word-mincing crowd we have here.

People make decisions for many different reasons. I don't see how anyone can say anything about someone else's paths. It does not make any sense to me.

My wife is probably the most level-headed and one of the nicest people that I have ever known. She is an extremely caring person in general. She made the decision not to have children for many reasons. If any of her reasons were selfish in intention, I would still support her fully. She is allowed to be selfish because it is HER life.

 

[pickeringmt]

Kids are awesome. My kids are the awesomest.

I really don't think that having kids changes what you are capable of, but I think it definitely changes a lot of the stories that people tell themselves.

Having kids doesn't put limits on you, but it does give you a lot of ways to put limits on yourself.

 

[DayIFly]

With all due respect, F*ck you.

 

[SteveO]

Yeah... But she did not mean it.

 

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[IGP]

Definitely a "to each their own" game...

My situation is bit different... Except for the few years my company got so big I needed employees and an office, I have been working at home since 2001.

So, I get to spend all day with my kids. And let me tell you, it is both the best and the worst the thing in the world!

It's great because when I want a break, I simply walk upstairs and hug them or wrestle with them or take them for a walk, etc. It re-energizes me and refocuses me on what's important to me.

But it sux because when I need to get shit done, there are constant interruptions.

My wife is a stay at home mom and she takes care of all of that stuff, but it still doesn't stop them from coming down stairs unannounced and messing up my groove.

In the end, not missing them grow up and being able to be a constant, positive influence in their life completely outweighs the dent they put in my mojo!

 

[Andy Black]

But it sux because when I need to get shit done, there are constant interruptions.

Lol. I remember those days (not very long ago actually). Leaving out the front door, sneaking round the back and through the back-door, to spend the day hiding in a tiny broom cupboard of an office so they didn't know I was in the house. I hadn't expected it to be so hard to hear them playing in the other room and not being able to go give them a hug.

Now they're at school and pre-school, and then minded till 4:30pm, life is soooo much easier working from home.

Also, @ChickenHawk just reminded me to be grateful they pretty much all sleep through now. Three full years of only a handful of uninterrupted sleeps gets you pretty punch drunk.

But now the youngest is 3 I feel I can get a bit of my life back, and do more exercise, and get uninterrupted work time in the evening.

 

[Red]

Yeah... But she did not mean it.

Oh my god, Steve, I laughed so F*cking hard at this. Thank you, lol.

 

[JohnZ123]

It all depends on your personal value and situation. If you value success enough to go all in then you probably shouldn't have kids yet especially if you're under 30.