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Freedom vs. Children

Seeker

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This one might be a little provoking and is not intended to harm anybodies feelings. But it's a topic I'd like to get a perspective on this from you guys.

Most people don't value their time very well. Just look at the people standing in line for hours to get a freebie. Another great example are Gas prices. For those who don't know, here in Germany Gas costs roughly 2 times the price you pay in the US. Anyhow as soon as the price drops a few cents long lines start to form at the gas station. All the people are waiting 5, 10, 20 minutes to save a few cents. Years ago as a student I did it myself. When I see it nowadays, I simply drive by and decide to come back later if I don't absolutely have to fill up. I value my time more.

TMF explains the commandment of time and how important it is to have an asset that can exist without you're time being bound to it. The 4 hour work week and many other modern business and self development literature follow the same principle. There is always more money to be made but never more time to live.

The one thing that seems to consume most time in life are children. At least if you want to be a good parent, not leaving all education/parenting to your partner, the grandparents, the kindergarten, school or nannies. You want to be there for your children, don't you? But they will literally take away your freedom. Especially when small they schedule your entire day. No more freedom to go out whenever you like or work 16 hours a day. And isn't freedom what should be valued most? Or is it much more fullfilling to raise your own children than to have freedom of choice what to do with your time?

I think we can all agree that the best take on this is what MJ did. Become rich first and do whatever you want, e.g. found a family and spend much more time than anybody with a job ever can. But what if you're still in the fastlane, maybe and the beginning of your journey or not even started and want to have children now? Maybe it has to be soon because your spouse will be too old in a few years? Is it possible to spend enough time with your family and still work your a$$ off to become rich? Are you able to work at your peak all day when you've been awake 4 or 5 times a night because of your little one demanding it?

What's your take on this? Do you have children? If so how much time do you spend with them and how much do you work per week?

Or do you never ever want to have children and see them as a threat to your personal freedom? Or maybe you are in the fastlane because of your children in the first place? Does it motivate you that one day you will provide the best life possible for them?

Let me know.
 
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D

DeletedUser396

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Genghis Khan maximized both.
You can emulate him.
Or do what you really want.

Personally, I want children to propagate my awesome genes but I don't want to raise them full time.
 

Madhu

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I can't comment on this directly, as I don't have kids. But I do know of people with children who have set up businesses. My parents raised me and my sister while setting up a business and many of my aunts and uncles did so as well.

I think it really comes down to time management and flexibility.

Ambiguity is the biggest killer of productivity. Many people waste a lot of time figuring out what task they should be doing. If you have a clear list of tasks, you can free up lots of time, as you can just get on with stuff.

Having children reduces free time, but free time still exists. So if you have a good list of things that need doing, then you can maximise that free time.
 

jon.a

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DayIFly

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If you want to drop out of the evolutionary game, then you simply aren't competitive enough. Look Elon deeply into the eyes and tell him that you don't have enough time to have any children.

00RR2vg5jn3Ho_25310.jpg
while-his-career-was-ramping-up-musk-in-2000-married-justine-musk-the-couple-went-on-to-have-five-kids-a-set-of-twins-and-a-set-of-triplets-all-of-whom-are-boys-musk-is-now-twice-divorced-a-second-marriage-from-2010-to-2012-also-fell-apart.jpg
 
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Newpollz

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Know that the life of this world is only play and amusement, pomp and mutual boasting among you, and rivalry in respect of wealth and children, as the likeness of vegetation after rain, thereof the growth is pleasing to the tiller; afterwards it dries up and you see it turning yellow; then it becomes straw. [...]. [57:20] Quran
 
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Red

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I personally have never wanted kids -I have zero maternal instinct but was always made to question what was wrong with me by the adults in my life who adamantly proclaimed "You'll change your mind" or worse- "It will just happen eventually." F*ck no it won't. You underestimate my level of dedication to creating a fool-proof plan.

The older I became, I've realized that many (most?) people become parents by accident (or stupidity, or lack of planning) & then just decide to roll with it (because, really, what else can you do?). I have never wanted that life & that scenario terrifies me. I'm the first to admit that I don't want the emotional turmoil or responsibility of being in charge of another human life. I couldn't handle it. I don't want to handle it. I won't handle it.

That being said, I'm the most excited person in the room when I have a friend who has finally conceived after a long fight with infertility -why? Because they're getting the desires of their heart. And they deserve that. And I'm happy for them. I love getting the family Christmas cards in the mail that have family pictures. I love seeing people build their families & the kiddos growing into their own personalities & quirks. It's pretty cool to watch. Then, at the end of the day, I get to go home with my husband & enjoy our quiet, peaceful home. And it makes me smile, because it's what I've always wanted.

tl;dr: do whatever the F*ck makes you happy.
 

Red

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Any parent want to comment? I'd love to hear your opinion.

Trying to tag Russ but I can't recall his screen name! He runs a B&B out in Napa & enjoys fatherhood more than anyone I know.... paging Russ...
 
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iAmAttila

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Ive got a 5 year old a new baby on the way. Wife is a full time mom. Son goes half day to kidergarden for fun and to be around kids and do kids stuff and make friends. I am time rich meaning i can not work and all will get done thx to my team.. but i can also work whenever i want because my wife will let me and be with our boy then.. or hell simply be playing on the other computer right beside me which he calls working..

I live for my family but know plenty others who are all about themselves. Well we are all different.
 

Red

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I live for my family but know plenty others who are all about themselves.

These are the covert statements that frustrate me. The implication being, if you're not about having a family (or what the speaker wants), then you are selfish/flawed/less-than. This is simply not the case.

Oh, your maternal instinct will kick in the moment someone is about to scratch into your motorcycle :D

LOLOL! Truth.
 
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iAmAttila

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Red i dunno how to quote you on tapatalk but if you read my entire reply i did say we are all different. One of my friends dedicated his life to enjoying it and he hooks up with a different hooker everyday in thailand.. eats at michelin restaurants and goes to funnest places and gets chauffered around. This guy is mr romance aka gerard dela porta look him up :)
 

safff

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I don't know if I actually want kids or if I'm just accepting it as part of life. I don't want them until I get to where I'm going to, pretty sure the mrs won't hold out though. A tiny part of me yearns to still be single so I can knock my goals out without comprimise in a lot of ways
 

Andy Black

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My sons inspire me to be the man I'd like them to become.
 

Jake

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I have a daughter. She's here in Hong Kong with me along with my wife. I flew here on Christmas day as I need to get up to Shenzen asap. With Christmas and my daughters birthday coming up I didnt want to leave them at home.

Ocean park yesterday, business dealing in Shenzen tomorrow, then Disney the following day for my Daughters birthday.

Family shouldn't hold you back. They become a reason to do, to succeed, to get shit done and put a smile on their faces.
 
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Iwokeup

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Being a father really forces you...no, I mean really forces you to dig deep and:

  • Push yourself beyond your comfort zone
  • Start thinking,
    • "What kind of memories of me will my children have?" or
    • "Will I be able to provide them with all of the education and mental tools necessary to kick a$$ in this world?" or
    • "Am I raising a kind, gentle person who will rise above their base animal ('me me me!') instincts?"
  • Exhaust you beyond all reason
  • Make you give a damn about the world, where social, demographic, and nation-state trends are heading.
  • And, just like @Andy Black sez, it'll push you to actually become the awesome hero your children believe you to be.
For damn sure, this process is tougher with children on board. But so what? Just like one of my favorite Marine Corps recruiting posters states,

0968acf5b4e08c1ef590f1ab215abe2f.jpg
 
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G

Guest34764

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My mother is lucky she gave birth to me.

I shall gain wealth and pull her out of the slow lane hole that she is currently in.

She'll be able to retire early with my help.

Then I shall have one child to carry on my wealth.

Carry on my genes and of course, the legend of my last name.
 

jon.a

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Trying to tag Russ but I can't recall his screen name! He runs a B&B out in Napa & enjoys fatherhood more than anyone I know.... paging Russ...

[HASHTAG]#Russ[/HASHTAG] H hasn't been seen in over a year.
 

Get Right

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I have 3 kids, a few cool businesses and time. Yes you can have it all :)
 
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Michał Kóska

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I have a two year old son. So rewarding to see him growing up and learning the world. Yes, you may have less time than without a child. A child is the best time management guru!
 

danoodle

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Being a recent parent, I will try and give it to you straight. Most people will tell you their kids are amazing and blah blah blah but the reality is i do have less freedom than before. Life is not all about me anymore.

I used to think this was strictly a bad thing, but the whole parenting experience has brought out parts of me i never knew existed. While i have always been into personal development, i now am striving to be the best person i can be on a different level. Another human life depends on it now. Any hangups i have, bad habits, issues, etc will likely be passed on to him. I absolutely must become the best version of myself for his sake.

I honestly used to hate everything about babies. Poop, pee, crying, complete and utter dependency. A leech that contributes nothing. A big event for me was when he started smiling. A smile that could warm even this grinch's heart.

Objectively a baby will cause you to have less freedom, more expenses, and more hardships. Especially if you can barely take care of yourself as it is. I honestly don't know how most people do it, it's been challenging for us and we are reasonably well off. Most people are not ready for this challenge, yet somehow they get the job done to the best of their abilities. Like i said, having kids will bring out things in people they never knew existed, both good and bad.

I think the ultimate question is whether it's worth it or not to have kids. This is a very deep question and differs for every person. For my personal situation, i think it will be worth it in the end.

My general advice would be do not have kids early. If you are younger than 30, i advise against it. Don't have them if you are not stable financially. Also if you have any mental issues or hangups, try and get them taken care of whether through therapy, personal development, whatever before having kids. Obviously a lot of people don't meet these three simple criteria before having kids. I just think it will make their lives a lot harder than it needs to be.

Ultimately it differs for everyone and you have to figure out what works for you. I know people who have had kids young and a lot of them, and they seem happy. I know others who are struggling to get by. Facebook does not tell the whole story. I know people who are trying, or couldn't conceive and ultimately had to adopt. I know people who have adopted kids with disabilities. Is their life harder? Objectively hell yes. I have mad respect for these people though, and the world needs more people like them.

Just know what the hell you are getting yourself into. There really is no right or wrong answer. I'll repost in this thread in 18 years and let you know if it was worth it or not ;)

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk
 

Webebe

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I got a 2 year old daughter, today i woke up 5 am to get some free time to read the forum.
Parents do not comment here because we do not have time. We just do things are really important, or at least we are forced to.
Yes to become a parent is a real challenge and big reponsibility. Makes relations stronger or tear apart.
Family, fitness, freedom. There is no wealth without.
In the long term one can be poorer without kids and family.

My biggest challenge is to find time to work for myself.

Look at your parents... What if they decided not to get children? Where were you today?

Yes we are different, some do not want kids. Thats ok. But what if you regret when you old? Who cares about you then?
I could say maybe that building a business, working full time job and have kids home under 5 yrs its not easy, and not what I do. Its not a good time for that. You may do it before, or after. Or work less slowlane.
 
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Vigilante

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This one might be a little provoking and is not intended to harm anybodies feelings. But it's a topic I'd like to get a perspective on this from you guys.

Most people don't value their time very well. Just look at the people standing in line for hours to get a freebie. Another great example are Gas prices. For those who don't know, here in Germany Gas costs roughly 2 times the price you pay in the US. Anyhow as soon as the price drops a few cents long lines start to form at the gas station. All the people are waiting 5, 10, 20 minutes to save a few cents. Years ago as a student I did it myself. When I see it nowadays, I simply drive by and decide to come back later if I don't absolutely have to fill up. I value my time more.

TMF explains the commandment of time and how important it is to have an asset that can exist without you're time being bound to it. The 4 hour work week and many other modern business and self development literature follow the same principle. There is always more money to be made but never more time to live.

The one thing that seems to consume most time in life are children. At least if you want to be a good parent, not leaving all education/parenting to your partner, the grandparents, the kindergarten, school or nannies. You want to be there for your children, don't you? But they will literally take away your freedom. Especially when small they schedule your entire day. No more freedom to go out whenever you like or work 16 hours a day. And isn't freedom what should be valued most? Or is it much more fullfilling to raise your own children than to have freedom of choice what to do with your time?

I think we can all agree that the best take on this is what MJ did. Become rich first and do whatever you want, e.g. found a family and spend much more time than anybody with a job ever can. But what if you're still in the fastlane, maybe and the beginning of your journey or not even started and want to have children now? Maybe it has to be soon because your spouse will be too old in a few years? Is it possible to spend enough time with your family and still work your a$$ off to become rich? Are you able to work at your peak all day when you've been awake 4 or 5 times a night because of your little one demanding it?

What's your take on this? Do you have children? If so how much time do you spend with them and how much do you work per week?

Or do you never ever want to have children and see them as a threat to your personal freedom? Or maybe you are in the fastlane because of your children in the first place? Does it motivate you that one day you will provide the best life possible for them?

Let me know.

I am older than most of you.

I have children older than most of yours.

I have a child younger than most of yours.

I have more freedom than most of you.

Freedom is not mutually exclusive from children.

This afternoon, I will be watching my daughter build a sand castle. How will you spend your Monday afternoon? Are you free?

@ChickenHawk was a middle aged working Mom before she penned a book that allowed her to quit her job. She has more freedom than most of you.

Fastlane freedom. You're asking the wrong question.
 

Kak

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With bigger responsibilities comes a bigger drive.

When I was only accountable to myself I really didn't care if I took an entire month off at the expense of my business.

Getting married soon and planning on having children within a few years has motivated me like nothing has ever done before and I'm a pretty motivated person.

Not that I can't raise a happy and comfortable family on what I make now, but I want to give my family the world even though they aren't asking for it.

Do whatever you want, but realize you can absolutely have both. A family and ventures. Real businesses are systems that work for you, you don't work for them and not everything is a startup forever.
 
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