The Entrepreneur Forum | Financial Freedom | Starting a Business | Motivation | Money | Success

Welcome to the only entrepreneur forum dedicated to building life-changing wealth.

Build a Fastlane business. Earn real financial freedom. Join free.

Join over 80,000 entrepreneurs who have rejected the paradigm of mediocrity and said "NO!" to underpaid jobs, ascetic frugality, and suffocating savings rituals— learn how to build a Fastlane business that pays both freedom and lifestyle affluence.

Free registration at the forum removes this block.

Does anyone REALLY wake up excited in the morning?

Andy Black

Help people. Get paid. Help more people.
Staff member
FASTLANE INSIDER
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
Read Fastlane!
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
370%
May 20, 2014
18,563
68,690
Ireland
If something no longer makes me happy, I drop it. I don't care how long I've worked for it, or how much I've invested in it.
I’m of this mind too. It’s why I don’t do 90 day challenges/commitments.

I was asked to commit to posting for 90 days on LinkedIn. I declined saying I’ll drop it like a hot snot if and when I decide to.

Sure, we sometime have to force ourselves to do things that are good for us, but I’d rather do things I can’t NOT do.
 
Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

MTF

Never give up
FASTLANE INSIDER
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
Read Fastlane!
Read Unscripted!
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
455%
May 1, 2011
7,560
34,430
If friendships are not your priority, are there any projects you have wanted to work on? I find that I am most excited to wake in the morning when I have a medium-term project (2 to 6 months) to look forward to working on outside of business.

I'm working on a long-distance open water swimming goal now but I guess it's not enough to give me much meaning. If anything, it adds dread to my life because I'm stressing out I need to get it done before the end of the season. And that may actually take away some of the enjoyment of just swimming without any goals.

Not sure if any of this will help you, but as someone who once had a very nihilistic worldview and extreme existential dread, I now

I think you wanted to add something more here.

A few weeks ago, I had to drive 11 hours to pick up a dog that I fostered that was returned to the rescue. My parents think I'm crazy to do things like that. They think I'm wasting 22 hours of my life. But I honestly, have nothing else going on.

So the night before I drove 2 hours and got a room at a Motel 6 in a small town. Went to sleep at midnight and woke up at 6am ready to drive another 9 hours. Picked up the dog at 4pm. A few days later drove her back another 11 hours to my place. Normally, I have trouble waking up in the morning, but because I had a goal that day, it was easy. The drive was easy. I felt a sense of accomplishment.

Now, my normal everyday life is waking up at 9am and wondering what to do. I'm usually doing house stuff. Yesterday I put up shelves in the laundry room. Today, I installed new lights in the garage. Yeah it's busy work but nothing near as fulfilling as picking up the dog.

I think the answer to get excited about waking up is to have something meaningful to do that day. It doesn't have to be everyday, but you must fill it at least once a week or every two weeks.

Do you ever just wake up and look forward to a dinner reservation? Or look forward to going to a movie? They don't need to be big things, they just need to be things...

Have you ever found any resources or talked with other people who are similar to you in that aspect that you're free to do whatever you want and you're wondering what to do?

It may be a first world problem but it's a rare problem so it's hard to find solutions. It's very hard for people to relate to that because if you're hustling toward that goal, you can't even imagine that once you reach it, you'll lose all drive in life.

Because objectively, you're an extremely intelligent and talented guy yet you choose to (no offense) spend your days putting up some random shelves in the laundry room. So you're doing pretty much the opposite thing of what most people recommend here: you spend your time on the least meaningful thing you can find.

Sounds like depression based on all of your responses to people in here. I was depressed and had terrible anxiety for most of my 20's. I started seeing a therapist and pyschiatrist and got on a low dose of Lexapro. It wasn't perfect but it really helped me get out of my funk. After about a year on it I tapered off of it and feel great most times. If it is depression dont be afraid to get help. It's not weak to get help from professionals.

It probably is depression. And I don't see a therapist being able to address it. It's a philosophical problem. I don't trust doctors, let alone therapists who are incentivized to come up with random mental illnesses to keep you hooked on their "therapy." And what is a therapist supposed to tell me? "Come on man, life has purpose" (while it has none)?

As for drugs, I wouldn't touch that shit with a ten-foot pole. Maybe they help suicidal people but I'm not suicidal (I'm too scared of death).

I'm with MTF on this one. I don't wake up excited in the morning most of the time.

I don't control the mood I'm in when I wake up (directly), it just happens unconsciously. It's a little f*cked up when I think about it; it's as if my brain is withholding the excitement from itself?

It could signal that the unconscious doesn't approve of your life's general direction maybe? Having a personally meaningful purpose/goal seem required from what I'm reading. Maybe it's a problem of self-knowledge.

Or maybe it's just a chemical thing like others are mentioning.

What if you don't believe in the existence of a meaningful purpose? Or if your life was only about one purpose and once you reach it, you've served your purpose?

It may be a problem of self-knowledge but I've never been able to figure it out. I did try to figure out my life's new general direction. Not sure if the following is going to help you but maybe it will...

For many years I was driven by my goal to build a house for my parents. Once I achieved that (and retired myself), it feels as if I served my purpose.

I used to believe that my next big goal would be to find a place somewhere tropical where I could buy a house. But the reality is that I can't be bothered to work more to make money to afford it. I also can't find any place that fits my requirements so it's a completely abstract goal as I don't even know where I would want to buy it. Perhaps if I knew a specific place, specific prices, etc. then I'd be more motivated to pursue it.

I also had thoughts that I could focus on sports or adventures but the reality is that I'll never become even 10% as good as top performers (even less so with my high frequency of injuries). So why bother obsessing so much about it only to end up mediocre at best? In today's world it's often not even about the ability itself but about selling yourself (those who shout the loudest get all the rewards).

I also had some pro-environmental goals but then I realized it's too much work and there are others who are doing it much better than I can ever hope to do it (or there are others with other goals who will win against me, for example the local council won't allow to plant a forest because they'd rather make money selling residential lots). So again, why bother? My involvement changes F*ck all.

I feel it’s been said to you @MTF, maybe I’m wrong, but it’s apparent you need bigger or perhaps more impactful goals. Think beyond yourself and your family.

The thing is that I know that these bigger goals won't change anything in my life. I know there's nothing on the other side so why bother?

I guess my question is: what's the point of living from one goal to another instead of having a goalless life? To me, people set goals purely because they want to keep themselves occupied because the alternative (reality) is too scary. Sort of like people believing in god(s).

For example, I'm working on a long-distance open water swimming goal now. I know nothing will change when I reach it. Yeah, my muscles will build some endurance but that's it. I'm doing it purely to keep myself occupied and have something to work toward to when swimming but I'm not fooling myself it has any purpose because it has none.

----

Yeah I know how resigned it all sounds. My curse is that I spend way too much time thinking how insignificant everything is, obsessing about death (I think about it multiple times every day) and that I can't accept the passage of time and it makes me even more depressed.

There are still things that I enjoy doing, some even a lot, but I'm just not fooling myself there's some kind of a meaningful purpose to them. They give me joy when I do them but it's not like I wake up REALLY excited to do them.

I feel kind of stupid having asked this question in the first place as it has led to this depressing thread that doesn't help anyone.
 

Black_Dragon43

Legendary Contributor
FASTLANE INSIDER
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
Read Fastlane!
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
337%
Apr 28, 2017
2,069
6,964
‍☠️ Eastern Europe
I’m of this mind too. It’s why I don’t do 90 day challenges/commitments.

I was asked to commit to posting for 90 days on LinkedIn. I declined saying I’ll drop it like a hot snot if and when I decide to.

Sure, we sometime have to force ourselves to do things that are good for us, but I’d rather do things I can’t NOT do.
The way I see it, whenever you force yourself, you're pushing on a spring... it builds up its energy, and sooner or later, it will exceed yours. It's just a matter of time. For some people, they get to the end of the 90 days, and then they're exhausted and don't want to hear about the challenge anymore. Others can push for years, but at some point it catches up with you. So pushing yourself, the way I see it, is good for the short term, when there is an emergency, and you basically will borrow from your future self to deal with it now. But it's not a good continuous state of being.

I remember the old joke with the old and young bull... two bulls sit on a hill, and the young bull says to the old bull "look there's some cows down there, let's run down the hill and grab one for ourselves". And the old bull looks at him and says "let's walk down and take all of them"... the point being you need to know when to expend your energy. The young bull wants to run down the hill, and use his energy there, thereby having energy left to make love just to one cow. The wiser, old bull, on the other hand, wants to conserve their energy while going down the hill, so they can make love to all of them.

I can say based on my own experience that I achieve a LOT MORE meaningful activity today, than I did 1 year ago. Sure, 1 year ago I'd do 100x the number of tasks I do today in a day. But were they important? Most often the answer is no. The truth is I did fewer important, valuable tasks, and that's where the real progress comes from.

Business is an intellectual sport... you need to spend more time thinking, and less time doing imo.
 

MTF

Never give up
FASTLANE INSIDER
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
Read Fastlane!
Read Unscripted!
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
455%
May 1, 2011
7,560
34,430
@MTF

Actually, I think it's worth adding that one of the main ways I (unexpectedly) got out of the depressive state I was in was by smoking weed.

But it wasn't in the way you'd probably think. You see, while my friends enjoyed it quite a lot, I kept having panic attacks.

Like pretty bad ones - the "I'm probably dying for real this time" type of panic attacks, the "Why are my legs shaking uncontrollably" panic attacks, and "I almost fainted because I forgot how to breathe" panic attacks.

Now, I know the above doesn't seem enticing in the slightest, but hear me out.

The real reason for those reactions had been my subconscious. Unbeknownst to me, I was stressing out about so much shit 24/7, which made me chronically miserable, depressed, and on edge.

The THC in the weed just brought all of that up to the surface. All my issues, traumas, self-beliefs, and self-imposed limitations that I would've never, ever considered thinking about when I was sober.

In fact, some of them had been present throughout my whole life, and yet I had never really even conceptualized them in my mind.

It was pure chaos. I kept having genuine Charlie Sheen moments where I'd tell people that if they borrowed my brain for five seconds, they would probably shit and then kill themselves.

"Just relax dude! You think too much..."

And relax I did, after not giving up on smoking despite my "rational" mind telling me to never touch that again. I learned to live with myself and my thoughts, recognized the patterns that made me anxious, and just allowed myself to accept and not care about them.

Does that mean I don't ever get anxious anymore from smoking? No, I do at times. But at this point, I think of it as a cold shower or some other uncomfortable act that leads to me becoming a better, more self-aware person.

And the most interesting part about it all? I notice that I have really bad, panicky highs whenever I put off working on problems I have (whether that's business-related, a relationship issue that's gone unresolved, or some other thing that's been troubling my mind recently). So smoking weed is almost like a debug tool for me, it lets me know I'm in deep shit (mentally) due to a problem in my life that I haven't resolved.

Funnily enough, whenever I have bad highs my physical health (Crohn's disease) is also flaring up a bit around that time. And, once I've resolved the pressing matters, my symptoms start to go away one by one.

I have a theory that a lot of the health disorders that are helped/brought into remission using Marijuana are actually a side-effect of people facing off their inner demons (and winning), thus experiencing lower levels of stress after (and we know how much stress impacts - or even causes - so many diseases). I am yet to write my dissertation on it, however...

I don't have any sensible reasons for stress in my life other than all the thoughts I have in my head. I find breathwork helpful and spending time in the water as well.

I'm as straight edge as they come so I would never touch marijuana or any other drugs.

Like I said before... it's been an intentional choice to train myself to look at the positive, to do things that give me energy, to avoid things that suck my energy.

Like everyone else, it affects me to be around negative people. I choose to not let it bog me down. I choose to not get into flame wars and arguments in the forum or online. I choose to let trolls have the last word.

I choose to be more child-like (not childish) and look at the world with the wonder it deserves.

I intentionally take child-like delight in things. "Woohoo! One in a row!! ... I just had my first email signup!!"

I intentionally do and say things that break the pattern of how adults are supposed to speak and think. You see me replying to people with "Oh wow. How is that cool! Well done." or "Gosh. That wasn't what I expected."

Do I have my speed wobbles? Sure... I'm not wired any different.

Just be careful labelling it as being "abnormally happy" or thinking it's "cultural". That sounds like when people say we're "lucky" not having to commute, do meetings, or have a crappy boss.

Okay, I understood that you've been always like that and that there's no work on your part to keep that attitude.

I have a lot of internal resistance to the stuff you mentioned. In fact, I can't help but groan or roll my eyes when people celebrate insignificant things. But I've been told by many people that I have very high standards for myself and can't be happy with little things.

It's a no for me.

I'm building a business that I don't have any passion or excitement for but it's working and making me money right now. Hoping once it grows I can find some passion in the business by hiring people and helping them with their lives. It's tiring and hard on the body. Some days I have to drag myself up outta bed as I know I've another hard day's work ahead of me.

I'm grateful to be alive and always try and stay positive. I'm definitely more of a night person.

Not sure why self help guru's don't write a book about being a night owl and working late at night while the early morning folk are sleeping. Instead I always hear about the guys who get up at 3am while everyone is sleeping and they jump out of bed pumped up and go for a 30 mile run and 500 pushups. They don't tell you that they're in bed at 8pm.

I can't perform if I don't get sleep. I also watched a video of Jeff Bezos stating he needs 8 hours sleep every day and doesn't have early morning meetings because his brain is still half asleep. So exciting early mornings aren't for everyone.

I can't perform well on less than 8 hours of sleep, either. I used to be a night owl and got a lot of work done in that period of my life. But now I'm an early riser and I prefer that schedule over staying up late and getting little daylight.

At the same time, I've grown to be a hardcore minimalist. If something no longer makes me happy, I drop it. I don't care how long I've worked for it, or how much I've invested in it. My time is limited, I want to make the most out of it. So I'm always asking myself what's the HIGHEST VALUE thing I can do? If something isn't that, then I drop it.

This made me think of something. I sent you an email as I'd rather discuss this privately.
 
Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

Black_Dragon43

Legendary Contributor
FASTLANE INSIDER
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
Read Fastlane!
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
337%
Apr 28, 2017
2,069
6,964
‍☠️ Eastern Europe
It probably is depression. And I don't see a therapist being able to address it. It's a philosophical problem. I don't trust doctors, let alone therapists who are incentivized to come up with random mental illnesses to keep you hooked on their "therapy." And what is a therapist supposed to tell me? "Come on man, life has purpose" (while it has none)?

As for drugs, I wouldn't touch that shit with a ten-foot pole. Maybe they help suicidal people but I'm not suicidal (I'm too scared of death).
When I was in my early 20s, I did take SSRIs and benzodiazepines, and to this day I'm very thankful that I stopped them within 2 years (actually against the advice of the therapist).

The problem with mental health at the moment, is the way it's implemented. For example, my therapist was obsessed back then about the fact that I had to spend time with friends, when what I wanted was to be useful and valuable. So I'd always get "negative" reviews because I didn't socialize enough, but who says that I should live like that if I don't enjoy it?

The point here is that treatment is standardized, and they have clear patterns for what's right and what's wrong. Most therapists will simply not have the flexibility required to guide you towards what's right for you. And let's not forget that the goal of therapy is to make you into a "normal" (meaning average) human being. Have a job, have a family, that's it. if you can do that, and you're happy with it, then, according to a therapist, you're doing great!

So these two problems, standardization of treatments and setting the goal too low are the problem with mental health if you ask me. The treatment is geared towards "helping" those who are in the absolute worst of conditions. Meaning if you're suicidal, and you're cutting your veins or something, then getting you to "normal" and stable is a very worthy goal. But if you're not in that place, imo it tends to be more harmful than good.

The only purpose of life @MTF is the one it already has: evolution. Everything in existence is evolving and striving to become better. If you act in accordance with that impulse, you will usually be happy. When you're unhappy, very often you are unhappy either because you're not thinking clearly, or deep down you know that you're doing something that is against the natural trend of evolution.

We do not know where our personal evolution, or social evolution will take us. But one thing is certain, that it is happening. And we can either go along the ride with it, or try to fight it. Meaning is achieved when we go along with this process of evolution and see where it takes us.

This error of seeing purpose as static, instead of dynamic is at the core of a lot of harmful ideologies today. Take communism. Marx read Hegel, whose dialectic was basically a description of evolution before Darwin's time... How a thesis and an anti-thesis get together, and that's what drives the creation of a synthesis, ie evolution. Now Marx interpreted Hegel's Absolute as being static. Now Marx envisioned communism as being that Absolute, and everything became excusable so long as we'd get there, since that was the final resting place of the whole process. There's nothing beyond the absolute, therefore anything we do, including killing and murdering, is justified if it gets us there. But if you see this purpose as dynamic, on the other hand, then there is no end to it. And there is no way to bring about the end either. It's just an ongoing, organic process of evolution, things always getting better and better.

The purpose is not static - it's not one thing that you'll reach and that's it, now your life is meaningful. The purpose is the very dynamic process itself. People who think of their purpose as achieving some static state usually will achieve it and then feel depressed... what's next? The very purpose wasn't the target, but the process itself.
 

Lex DeVille

Sweeping Shadows From Dreams
FASTLANE INSIDER
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
Read Fastlane!
Read Unscripted!
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
597%
Jan 14, 2013
5,351
31,933
Utah
I'm working on a long-distance open water swimming goal now but I guess it's not enough to give me much meaning. If anything, it adds dread to my life because I'm stressing out I need to get it done before the end of the season. And that may actually take away some of the enjoyment of just swimming without any goals.



I think you wanted to add something more here.



Have you ever found any resources or talked with other people who are similar to you in that aspect that you're free to do whatever you want and you're wondering what to do?

It may be a first world problem but it's a rare problem so it's hard to find solutions. It's very hard for people to relate to that because if you're hustling toward that goal, you can't even imagine that once you reach it, you'll lose all drive in life.

Because objectively, you're an extremely intelligent and talented guy yet you choose to (no offense) spend your days putting up some random shelves in the laundry room. So you're doing pretty much the opposite thing of what most people recommend here: you spend your time on the least meaningful thing you can find.



It probably is depression. And I don't see a therapist being able to address it. It's a philosophical problem. I don't trust doctors, let alone therapists who are incentivized to come up with random mental illnesses to keep you hooked on their "therapy." And what is a therapist supposed to tell me? "Come on man, life has purpose" (while it has none)?

As for drugs, I wouldn't touch that shit with a ten-foot pole. Maybe they help suicidal people but I'm not suicidal (I'm too scared of death).



What if you don't believe in the existence of a meaningful purpose? Or if your life was only about one purpose and once you reach it, you've served your purpose?

It may be a problem of self-knowledge but I've never been able to figure it out. I did try to figure out my life's new general direction. Not sure if the following is going to help you but maybe it will...

For many years I was driven by my goal to build a house for my parents. Once I achieved that (and retired myself), it feels as if I served my purpose.

I used to believe that my next big goal would be to find a place somewhere tropical where I could buy a house. But the reality is that I can't be bothered to work more to make money to afford it. I also can't find any place that fits my requirements so it's a completely abstract goal as I don't even know where I would want to buy it. Perhaps if I knew a specific place, specific prices, etc. then I'd be more motivated to pursue it.

I also had thoughts that I could focus on sports or adventures but the reality is that I'll never become even 10% as good as top performers (even less so with my high frequency of injuries). So why bother obsessing so much about it only to end up mediocre at best? In today's world it's often not even about the ability itself but about selling yourself (those who shout the loudest get all the rewards).

I also had some pro-environmental goals but then I realized it's too much work and there are others who are doing it much better than I can ever hope to do it (or there are others with other goals who will win against me, for example the local council won't allow to plant a forest because they'd rather make money selling residential lots). So again, why bother? My involvement changes F*ck all.



The thing is that I know that these bigger goals won't change anything in my life. I know there's nothing on the other side so why bother?

I guess my question is: what's the point of living from one goal to another instead of having a goalless life? To me, people set goals purely because they want to keep themselves occupied because the alternative (reality) is too scary. Sort of like people believing in god(s).

For example, I'm working on a long-distance open water swimming goal now. I know nothing will change when I reach it. Yeah, my muscles will build some endurance but that's it. I'm doing it purely to keep myself occupied and have something to work toward to when swimming but I'm not fooling myself it has any purpose because it has none.

----

Yeah I know how resigned it all sounds. My curse is that I spend way too much time thinking how insignificant everything is, obsessing about death (I think about it multiple times every day) and that I can't accept the passage of time and it makes me even more depressed.

There are still things that I enjoy doing, some even a lot, but I'm just not fooling myself there's some kind of a meaningful purpose to them. They give me joy when I do them but it's not like I wake up REALLY excited to do them.

I feel kind of stupid having asked this question in the first place as it has led to this depressing thread that doesn't help anyone.

I don't wake up excited because I have a rational mind, and that rational mind knows that everything except defeating death (and even possibly that) is meaningless. Everything else is a distraction from this truth.

God, friends, big goals, business, music, drugs...

The best you can hope for is to find a temporary sense of purpose before you die and it all becomes meaningless. This isn't depression. It is reality that we live in a world under mass hypnosis where everyone pretends life has meaning and purpose even though death erases it all.

I think that if you rationalize this for too long, the only choice that makes sense is suicide because there is no point existing when death is the only outcome.

Ironically, I am still here, so I guess that makes me a coward or maybe just a fool. I haven't decided. I hold hope that "natural" death might be defeated within my lifetime, but even if it is...what then?

It seems like you may have come to a similar conclusion.

I'm not sure there is any satisfying answer to this problem. The path with the most potentially purposeful outcome is to work toward defeating death. But what if that doesn't change how you feel?

I guess you just have to find fulfillment in misery and then exist that way until something changes or you decide to clock out. This is my current perspective, not necessarily the *correct* perspective.

The only purpose of life @MTF is the one it already has: evolution. Everything in existence is evolving and striving to become better
Life is designed to continue, not to evolve. Evolution is a means to continue existence. Virtually all humans ignore this because it is the ugliest truth and not one anybody likes to dwell on. If death is the only option, then everything else is meaningless and purposeless.
 

Black_Dragon43

Legendary Contributor
FASTLANE INSIDER
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
Read Fastlane!
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
337%
Apr 28, 2017
2,069
6,964
‍☠️ Eastern Europe
Life is designed to continue, not to evolve. Evolution is a means to continue existence. Virtually all humans ignore this because it is the ugliest truth and not one anybody likes to dwell on. If death is the only option, then everything else is meaningless and purposeless.
Why does death exist? We could conceive of a Universe where organisms, once born, would be eternal, unless they were killed. But why do we naturally die? The way I see it, it's because the rate of evolution is maximised in this way. Life itself is a form of negentropy - we decrease our entropy by increasing the entropy of the environment. If you look at it in this way, we are the Thesis, and the Anti-thesis is the environment which strives, so to speak, to kill us. Out of this conflict is born evolution - the synthesis, our adaptation to the environment. Death exists because it leads to faster adaptation.
 
Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

Lex DeVille

Sweeping Shadows From Dreams
FASTLANE INSIDER
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
Read Fastlane!
Read Unscripted!
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
597%
Jan 14, 2013
5,351
31,933
Utah
Why does death exist? We could conceive of a Universe where organisms, once born, would be eternal, unless they were killed. But why do we naturally die? The way I see it, it's because the rate of evolution is maximised in this way. Life itself is a form of negentropy - we decrease our entropy by increasing the entropy of the environment. If you look at it in this way, we are the Thesis, and the Anti-thesis is the environment which strives, so to speak, to kill us. Out of this conflict is born evolution - the synthesis, our adaptation to the environment. Death exists because it leads to faster adaptation.
If it comforts you to think this way then by all means don't let me affect that. As long as death is the only option, I would view this perspective as another distraction from the reality that, as it stands, you are going to die and everything you have ever done will mean nothing.
 
Last edited:

Lex DeVille

Sweeping Shadows From Dreams
FASTLANE INSIDER
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
Read Fastlane!
Read Unscripted!
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
597%
Jan 14, 2013
5,351
31,933
Utah
@MTF I wasn't sure if I should post my post. It isn't my goal to highlight the bleakness of existence.

I posted it because I find some small comfort in knowing that someone else is thinking about this (therefore, I feel less alone). Also, I feel like it is the only comfort I can offer to anyone who might follow a similar line of thinking.

I hope that someone will change my mind and that something I read here will lead to a major perspective shift, but I don't expect that will happen.

Probably best for everyone else not to dwell on this or read too much into it.
 

Simon Angel

Platinum Contributor
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
291%
Apr 24, 2016
1,189
3,455
I don't wake up excited because I have a rational mind, and that rational mind knows that everything except defeating death (and even possibly that) is meaningless. Everything else is a distraction from this truth.

God, friends, big goals, business, music, drugs...

The best you can hope for is to find a temporary sense of purpose before you die and it all becomes meaningless. This isn't depression. It is reality that we live in a world under mass hypnosis where everyone pretends life has meaning and purpose even though death erases it all.

I think that if you rationalize this for too long, the only choice that makes sense is suicide because there is no point existing when death is the only outcome.

Ironically, I am still here, so I guess that makes me a coward or maybe just a fool. I haven't decided. I hold hope that "natural" death might be defeated within my lifetime, but even if it is...what then?

It seems like you may have come to a similar conclusion.

I'm not sure there is any satisfying answer to this problem. The path with the most potentially purposeful outcome is to work toward defeating death. But what if that doesn't change how you feel?

I guess you just have to find fulfillment in misery and then exist that way until something changes or you decide to clock out. This is my current perspective, not necessarily the *correct* perspective.


Life is designed to continue, not to evolve. Evolution is a means to continue existence. Virtually all humans ignore this because it is the ugliest truth and not one anybody likes to dwell on. If death is the only option, then everything else is meaningless and purposeless.

Sorry man, but you've brought a kid into this world so you have an obligation to take care of them. We know life is both a blessing and a curse, and your child had no say in whether it wanted to be born or not.

I keep thinking about procreation as a way to immortalize yourself. Yes, you'll die one day, but all the knowledge and experiences you've gone through have changed your DNA which you've then passed on to your offspring.

Anyway, I'd be pretty happy with having my brain in a jar so long as it functions. With enough time, they'll be able to clone my entire body (maybe even delete some of the bad genes) and get me back to.. me.

And then, I'd probably euthanize myself because everyone I had ever known will be dead and everyone I would meet will be young and dumb while I would be a grumpy 200-year-old and nothing will still hold any meaning to me... See where I'm going?

Even if we solved death, then what? Would your life suddenly become meaningful with your newly-acquired immortality?

EDIT: Disregard the last couple of paragraphs, apparently you already mentioned this.

Well, guys, the only reason I'd want to stick around for a long, long time is to see the technological advancement of humanity (it's exciting to think about what kind of technology awaits, just consider what we've achieved in the past 100 years in that regard) and its search for the origin of human life. I'd like to think it'll be something like in Prometheus where we'll start visiting random exoplanets and find that there was once a thriving, advanced civilization there (or still is) that has the answers (or were the creators).

Yes, it's kind of cruel that whoever/whatever created us made it so that we're infinitely curious while also intellectually limited to an extent where we constantly search for meaning while never quite getting a grasp on it.

We could be an experiment or created by "something" from another dimension that we cannot even begin to comprehend or perceive.

Perhaps we're a neglected fish tank of some 27th-dimensional being who conjured us for fun or a randomly-generated Universe in a really, really advanced computer program.

The possibilities are endless. And yes, it's depressing.. but also exciting.
 
Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.
Last edited:

redshift

Silver Contributor
FASTLANE INSIDER
Read Rat-Race Escape!
Read Fastlane!
Read Unscripted!
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
345%
Sep 4, 2018
192
662
Yup, It's the most exciting part of the day.

You are still alive and just got another shot at life.

The possibilities are endless.

One day you might not wake up.

Today you did.

Enjoy it.
 

Andy Black

Help people. Get paid. Help more people.
Staff member
FASTLANE INSIDER
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
Read Fastlane!
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
370%
May 20, 2014
18,563
68,690
Ireland
I feel kind of stupid having asked this question in the first place as it has led to this depressing thread that doesn't help anyone.
I don't find this thread depressing, and I think it helps a lot of people. If it helps just one person have a better day or lead a better life or raise their kids better then that's an amazing achievement.

Well done starting it @MTF.



Now then... why didn't/couldn't you see it that way? Can you train yourself to better see the positives instead of the negatives?
 
Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

Andy Black

Help people. Get paid. Help more people.
Staff member
FASTLANE INSIDER
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
Read Fastlane!
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
370%
May 20, 2014
18,563
68,690
Ireland
Yup, It's the most exciting part of the day.

You are still alive and just got another shot at life.

The possibilities are endless.

One day you might not wake up.

Today you did.

Enjoy it.
Woohoo! It's New Year's Day - every day!!!
 

Trevor Kuntz

Professional Dog Owner
FASTLANE INSIDER
Read Fastlane!
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
274%
Feb 5, 2012
655
1,794
Arizona
It probably is depression. And I don't see a therapist being able to address it. It's a philosophical problem.
Ah, so here is the entire crux of your problem then.

Well, I'll try to give you my perspective from that pit of existential dread I found myself in around 21 years old. Lol.

For context, I grew up in a deeply religious evangelical Christian community. I was considered highly valuable to the community for my strong knowledge of scripture, but I never actually personally accepted any of the beliefs and the more I learned, the more I found many aspects to be conflicting with history, science, itself, etc. Basically, my entire belief system was based on Pascal's Wager and then I realized that if God existed, he would already know that anyway and condemn me for choosing the "good" side of the wager without actually believing anything.

For a long time, I still believed in hell which obviously brought a lot of dread, since at best, it is eternal nothingness and at worst, eternal pain, which isn't great. I did extensive research (i.e. reading about 50 books) on the history of religion, origin of beliefs in afterlife, etc. Once I came to the realization that hell was a Greek corruption, I stopped being so worried about it, but that didn't help my "purpose" issues.

At the same time, I had a deep-seated fear of future AI and singularity and that caused its own dread especially since some theories are particularly dark and akin to hell in their own right.

I recognized that this mindset was not healthy and knew that the only way I could work my way out of it was philosophically, so I began reading extensively the writings of Stoics, Epicureanists, Daoists, etc. Each philosophy accepted the same basic premises I had about the world and came to different conclusions about how to live one's life accordingly and I drew some from each school of thought.

Today, I know that I will be dead by 2090. I know that I will not have descendants. I know that I will be forgotten not long after my death. I believe that the Earth will eventually be consumed by the Sun based on evidence of how stars work. Further on, the universe may die in the heat death or Big Rip or whatever, but for me, none of that will really matter.

I also know that I was born on Earth not of my choosing and got pretty lucky through zero work, input, or ability of my own. I could have been born anywhere on earth at any point in history and I got born to a stable family living in one of the better periods of history in one of the better places in the world for flourishing human life. To me, I bear some responsibility for being happy about that outcome. I could have been born a slave like Epictetus, but I wasn't, so I try to be thankful for just having a life in which I have some control.

I could choose to not be here anymore, but what good does that do me? I am already here and might as well accept that and explore life and this world and our past and our future and embrace as much of the advantages that modern life affords to someone like me that many humans who have ever existed never had. In this choose-your-own adventure life, we have literally hundreds of options (maybe too many).

I fully accept your belief that most everything is meaningless. Every work I create will fade into dust at some point and I think that is ok. As humans, we have this weird drive to be remembered and acknowledged and validated and this thought afflicts no one to a greater degree than people whose only goal is to be famous and revered.

I am constantly reminded of the story of Ozymandias (Ramses II). He was a 13th Century BCE Egyptian Pharoah. He ordered the construction of a large statue of himself that once built, stood many meters high. In the 1800s, Napoleon Bonaparte's soldiers "rediscovered" the statue and found that in the preceding 3000 years, the top half of Ramses II's body had toppled and his head now lay at his own feet. The poet Percy Shelley wrote a sonnet about the statue in which he describes the inscription on the statue as proclaiming Ramses II's greatness. Basically, Ramses II had proclaimed (I am paraphrasing in more modern language for clarity) "I am Ramses II, King of Kings! Look upon my statue and my kingdom, you little person, and acknowledge my greatness!" Yet, what greatness? A ruined statue in the middle of the desert?

From my perspective, the universe is "telling" us to stop being vain and the more vain we are about our self-importance, the more that will only lead to disappointment. The vainest men in history will all eventually be forgotten (or their histories so warped) and all their attempts at immortalization will result in the same outcome. Even humanity as a whole can be pretty vain. "We" have accomplished "so much" yet, if every nuke on Earth were fired today, erasing humanity and its cultural legacy for all time, our only "accomplishment" would be the pair of Voyager spacecraft that have left the solar system and will be soaring through the Oort Cloud for the next million years. Those spacecraft would literally be all that is left of humanity's cumulative accomplishments over the past 10,000 years, which is kind of cool in a way.

I fully recognize that I am not great and accept that I am mediocre in almost everything and that's fine with me. Competing with 7 billion other humans to be the greatest at any thing might literally kill me, so I'll be happy being the 3,832,659,328th greatest person currently alive because the only person who truly cares about me is me. My impact might be small, but I can still have an impact especially in service to others. Because I am physically capable of helping others, I should, and in doing so, that brings me a lot of joy. All long-lasting philosophies and religions put heavy emphasis on service to others, and I think it might be the most reliable path to inner peace and joy, even though it might not equal exuberant happiness.

Your life goal for a long time was to SERVE your parents, and you did and that is pretty great. Maybe now, your goal should be to SERVE someone else, whether that is 1 person, 100 people, or 1000 people. Don't focus on the number, just focus on mutual benefit.
 

Black_Dragon43

Legendary Contributor
FASTLANE INSIDER
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
Read Fastlane!
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
337%
Apr 28, 2017
2,069
6,964
‍☠️ Eastern Europe
If it comforts you to think this way then by all means don't let me affect that. As long as death is the only option, I would view this perspective as another distraction from the reality that, as it stands, you are going to die and everything you have ever done will mean nothing.
It's not about being comfortable for me, but... sure, death is the only "option" for me. And for any individual. Survival exists in the species, not the individual. Will humans go extinct at some point? Maybe. To me that is still massive speculation.

But the point remains. Everything I have ever done will mean nothing to whom? To me it was meaningful while doing it, to the people that came after me it was meaningful, and they were meaningful to people afterwards and so on. To me, meaning only exists for me while I'm alive. Meaning for others exists while they are alive. Now if no one is alive, how can we even talk about meaning nothing or meaning something? Meaning itself ceases to exist, because there's no one left for that state to mean nothing or mean something for.

I think the advantage of having access to reason is being able to rise above the perspective of the individual and look at things from the perspective of nature. From my point of view, it's not that great that I have to die. But from the point of view of the human race, that's a big plus. And from even higher points of view it's also a plus. So who am I to demand that the universe be how I want it to be? Who am I to demand that things be good for me, but bad for the whole?

I agree with Epicurus about death. I think it's nothing to be afraid of. The fear of death is something we create by telling ourselves how terrible and awful it will be to not exist anymore. We can just stop saying that... it's not terrible and awful, it happens every day, every second, multiple times, if we count all living beings on Earth. If there are living beings elsewhere, who knows how many times it happens in a single instant? And all these beings go through death, and they do so "successfully" so to speak. What stops us?
 

Simon Angel

Platinum Contributor
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
291%
Apr 24, 2016
1,189
3,455
Ah, so here is the entire crux of your problem then.

Well, I'll try to give you my perspective from that pit of existential dread I found myself in around 21 years old. Lol.

For context, I grew up in a deeply religious evangelical Christian community. I was considered highly valuable to the community for my strong knowledge of scripture, but I never actually personally accepted any of the beliefs and the more I learned, the more I found many aspects to be conflicting with history, science, itself, etc. Basically, my entire belief system was based on Pascal's Wager and then I realized that if God existed, he would already know that anyway and condemn me for choosing the "good" side of the wager without actually believing anything.

For a long time, I still believed in hell which obviously brought a lot of dread, since at best, it is eternal nothingness and at worst, eternal pain, which isn't great. I did extensive research (i.e. reading about 50 books) on the history of religion, origin of beliefs in afterlife, etc. Once I came to the realization that hell was a Greek corruption, I stopped being so worried about it, but that didn't help my "purpose" issues.

At the same time, I had a deep-seated fear of future AI and singularity and that caused its own dread especially since some theories are particularly dark and akin to hell in their own right.

I recognized that this mindset was not healthy and knew that the only way I could work my way out of it was philosophically, so I began reading extensively the writings of Stoics, Epicureanists, Daoists, etc. Each philosophy accepted the same basic premises I had about the world and came to different conclusions about how to live one's life accordingly and I drew some from each school of thought.

Today, I know that I will be dead by 2090. I know that I will not have descendants. I know that I will be forgotten not long after my death. I believe that the Earth will eventually be consumed by the Sun based on evidence of how stars work. Further on, the universe may die in the heat death or Big Rip or whatever, but for me, none of that will really matter.

I also know that I was born on Earth not of my choosing and got pretty lucky through zero work, input, or ability of my own. I could have been born anywhere on earth at any point in history and I got born to a stable family living in one of the better periods of history in one of the better places in the world for flourishing human life. To me, I bear some responsibility for being happy about that outcome. I could have been born a slave like Epictetus, but I wasn't, so I try to be thankful for just having a life in which I have some control.

I could choose to not be here anymore, but what good does that do me? I am already here and might as well accept that and explore life and this world and our past and our future and embrace as much of the advantages that modern life affords to someone like me that many humans who have ever existed never had. In this choose-your-own adventure life, we have literally hundreds of options (maybe too many).

I fully accept your belief that most everything is meaningless. Every work I create will fade into dust at some point and I think that is ok. As humans, we have this weird drive to be remembered and acknowledged and validated and this thought afflicts no one to a greater degree than people whose only goal is to be famous and revered.

I am constantly reminded of the story of Ozymandias (Ramses II). He was a 13th Century BCE Egyptian Pharoah. He ordered the construction of a large statue of himself that once built, stood many meters high. In the 1800s, Napoleon Bonaparte's soldiers "rediscovered" the statue and found that in the preceding 3000 years, the top half of Ramses II's body had toppled and his head now lay at his own feet. The poet Percy Shelley wrote a sonnet about the statue in which he describes the inscription on the statue as proclaiming Ramses II's greatness. Basically, Ramses II had proclaimed (I am paraphrasing in more modern language for clarity) "I am Ramses II, King of Kings! Look upon my statue and my kingdom, you little person, and acknowledge my greatness!" Yet, what greatness? A ruined statue in the middle of the desert?

From my perspective, the universe is "telling" us to stop being vain and the more vain we are about our self-importance, the more that will only lead to disappointment. The vainest men in history will all eventually be forgotten (or their histories so warped) and all their attempts at immortalization will result in the same outcome. Even humanity as a whole can be pretty vain. "We" have accomplished "so much" yet, if every nuke on Earth were fired today, erasing humanity and its cultural legacy for all time, our only "accomplishment" would be the pair of Voyager spacecraft that have left the solar system and will be soaring through the Oort Cloud for the next million years. Those spacecraft would literally be all that is left of humanity's cumulative accomplishments over the past 10,000 years, which is kind of cool in a way.

I fully recognize that I am not great and accept that I am mediocre in almost everything and that's fine with me. Competing with 7 billion other humans to be the greatest at any thing might literally kill me, so I'll be happy being the 3,832,659,328th greatest person currently alive because the only person who truly cares about me is me. My impact might be small, but I can still have an impact especially in service to others. Because I am physically capable of helping others, I should, and in doing so, that brings me a lot of joy. All long-lasting philosophies and religions put heavy emphasis on service to others, and I think it might be the most reliable path to inner peace and joy, even though it might not equal exuberant happiness.

Your life goal for a long time was to SERVE your parents, and you did and that is pretty great. Maybe now, your goal should be to SERVE someone else, whether that is 1 person, 100 people, or 1000 people. Don't focus on the number, just focus on mutual benefit.

Lovely write-up.

Also, I came across this while researching the homo genus' history:

"Even after primitive Homo sapiens broke out of Africa 200,000 years ago, it took over 150,000 years to conquer Neanderthal lands. In Israel and Greece, archaic Homo sapiens took ground only to fall back against Neanderthal counteroffensives, before a final offensive by modern Homo sapiens, starting 125,000 years ago, eliminated them."

I know this doesn't help the "We're so insignificant in the grand scheme of things!" point of view here at all but can you guys imagine "modern" humans fighting Neanderthals for 150,000 years?

Hunt, fight, eat, procreate, sleep, repeat. That's all our ancestors did.

Imagine how many happy/sad/epic stories unfolded but will forever remain untold throughout 150,000 years of the above.

Here's a thought: What if we've just been putting on a show for some immortal interdimensional beings who are bored of being immortal, so they get a kick out of observing us "lucky", mortal humans trying to make our dreadfully-short lives matter?
 

Antifragile

Progress not perfection
FASTLANE INSIDER
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
Read Rat-Race Escape!
Read Fastlane!
Read Unscripted!
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
453%
Mar 15, 2018
3,708
16,809
Because I am physically capable of helping others, I should, and in doing so, that brings me a lot of joy. All long-lasting philosophies and religions put heavy emphasis on service to others, and I think it might be the most reliable path to inner peace and joy, even though it might not equal exuberant happiness.

Great write up @Trevor Kuntz. I quoted and bolded my favourite part.

I'll add that when you help others it creates a domino effect that can last millions of years. No self promoting statute can accomplish that.
 
Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

fastlane_dad

8 Figure Fastlane Graduate
FASTLANE INSIDER
Read Rat-Race Escape!
Read Fastlane!
Read Unscripted!
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
636%
Jun 20, 2017
413
2,626
41
Scottsdale, AZ
@MTF

I don't have that much to add here outside of hearing some of Jordan Petersons voice - with questions and answers running on a lot of these conundrums you posed...

- Taking on responsibility (wife, house, kids, pets, aging parents, etc)
- Just picking a direction and 'go'
- Having a schedule that you stick to
- Figuring out what diet works best for you
- Being Social / Spending time with friends
- Gratitude (and FINDING a way to be appreciate and thankful for the small stuff)
- ETC

I don't know how much of these you have incorporated into your life (or none!) - and I'm a true believer they are a great place to start.

I can't help much with the 'it's all meaningless' aspect you are feeling, there's a lot of internal work that needs to happen to overcome that - or professional help. You were quick to dismiss some of that in earlier posts, but I wouldn't be so sure that talking to a licensed professional wouldn't help you out.

For me - new purpose needs to be re-established each and every single day. Sometimes things last for a day - other times for a decade or longer. Part of life to me is to keep re-figuring out today's purpose and figuring out how I can best serve myself and those around me consistently - to the best of my energy and power.

Am I excited to wake up each day in the morning? Depends on various factors, mood, and mostly how my infant has slept.

But there ARE things I look forward to in my life on daily basis, especially surrounding hobbies and passions that I enjoy.
 
D

Deleted88861

Guest
Does anyone honestly wake up excited in the morning?

If so, what do you do?

I've always felt that this whole "create the life you can't wait to wake up to" is bullshit propagated by self-help gurus and maybe only lived by abnormally happy people who have some kind of a genetic make-up to feel like that most of the time.
Yeah I agree here to be honest, here's my personal take -
I guess if you are able to involve some meditation/mindfulness after you wake up it can help.

I used to follow a lot of these gurus and had some of their courses and it's just buzzed words for them, they love saying this stuff. I certainly have shit days, definitely not excited every day, rarely to be honest, but you can do things like watch your diet/workout/meditate daily (I have been doing these things) and they really can help you stay somewhat grounded and focused, and if you can stay calm and grounded then you don't really need the whole "happiness" dream, lol. Call me a pessimist but I'm just realistic, especially after being that person who did try over and over again to be happy every day. It wasn't until I let go of that desire and became more at ease with not always feeling happy that I started feeling happy in a way, but who cares about happiness, it's very fluctuating.

For me, groundedness and doing more things to remain calm has been far more beneficial.

Hope that helps with some insight.

Cheers
 

Kak

Legendary Contributor
FASTLANE INSIDER
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
Read Rat-Race Escape!
Read Fastlane!
Read Unscripted!
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
492%
Jan 23, 2011
9,678
47,664
34
Texas
I just came back from 10 days spending time with my family.

Yup, I was absolutely excited to get up this morning and get to work. I woke up at 5:30, about 45 minutes earlier than normal. I was in my office by 6:15.



Why climb a mountain after you've already climbed one? Who needs to see more mountaintops? What's the point?

I know you weren't talking to me, but my end result is not the money I make. It's the journey. It's the strategy. It's the bobbing and weaving and ducking and rolling that comes with a growing enterprise. I love the jiggle and the juggle that is my life. I love creating order from the chaos. That's my art, or the closest I get to art anyway. Building patterns and process while interweaving the lives and skills of small teams into a cohesive unit.

Art! That’s a beautiful analogy! Nicely said bro!
 
Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

Andy Black

Help people. Get paid. Help more people.
Staff member
FASTLANE INSIDER
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
Read Fastlane!
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
370%
May 20, 2014
18,563
68,690
Ireland
Art! That’s a beautiful analogy! Nicely said bro!
I heard someone say once that business is the truest form of self expression.
 

JordanK

Gold Contributor
Read Fastlane!
Read Unscripted!
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
295%
Feb 17, 2014
557
1,644
26
Ireland
I feel terrible the majority of mornings for the first hour that I am awake. Weirdly enough I feel super energized and alert the later in the day it gets. So, I have tailored most of my work to be done in the evenings and then I hit the gym around 10pm. It's definitely a super unusual body clock pattern to have and conflicts with how society runs in general. Hate having any sort of meetings in the early morning or getting calls about business stuff.

I have never had tea/coffee and don't use pre-workout or consume caffeine. The majority of people that I observe, also feel awful waking up but instantly boost their energy to crazy highs with supplements then the energy fades away as the day continues.

Maybe its just the fact that I'm 24, self employed and I enjoy eating out late, traveling, going to clubs etc... a lot of people in my life seem trained into their sleeping habits from a 9-5 job earlier in their life or obviously from dropping kids to school in the morning or other such responsibilities. I envisage that my sleeping patterns and energy levels will change as my life changes in the future.

My personal experiences that might be similar to yours @MTF

Also, being from Ireland its usually super dark and rainy everyday when I wake up. I do perform slightly better during mornings in the summer or when I'm on holidays abroad.
 

MJ DeMarco

I followed the science; all I found was money.
Staff member
FASTLANE INSIDER
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
Read Rat-Race Escape!
Read Fastlane!
Read Unscripted!
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
445%
Jul 23, 2007
38,076
169,492
Utah
Ah, so here is the entire crux of your problem then.

Well, I'll try to give you my perspective from that pit of existential dread I found myself in around 21 years old. Lol.

For context, I grew up in a deeply religious evangelical Christian community. I was considered highly valuable to the community for my strong knowledge of scripture, but I never actually personally accepted any of the beliefs and the more I learned, the more I found many aspects to be conflicting with history, science, itself, etc. Basically, my entire belief system was based on Pascal's Wager and then I realized that if God existed, he would already know that anyway and condemn me for choosing the "good" side of the wager without actually believing anything.

For a long time, I still believed in hell which obviously brought a lot of dread, since at best, it is eternal nothingness and at worst, eternal pain, which isn't great. I did extensive research (i.e. reading about 50 books) on the history of religion, origin of beliefs in afterlife, etc. Once I came to the realization that hell was a Greek corruption, I stopped being so worried about it, but that didn't help my "purpose" issues.

At the same time, I had a deep-seated fear of future AI and singularity and that caused its own dread especially since some theories are particularly dark and akin to hell in their own right.

I recognized that this mindset was not healthy and knew that the only way I could work my way out of it was philosophically, so I began reading extensively the writings of Stoics, Epicureanists, Daoists, etc. Each philosophy accepted the same basic premises I had about the world and came to different conclusions about how to live one's life accordingly and I drew some from each school of thought.

Today, I know that I will be dead by 2090. I know that I will not have descendants. I know that I will be forgotten not long after my death. I believe that the Earth will eventually be consumed by the Sun based on evidence of how stars work. Further on, the universe may die in the heat death or Big Rip or whatever, but for me, none of that will really matter.

I also know that I was born on Earth not of my choosing and got pretty lucky through zero work, input, or ability of my own. I could have been born anywhere on earth at any point in history and I got born to a stable family living in one of the better periods of history in one of the better places in the world for flourishing human life. To me, I bear some responsibility for being happy about that outcome. I could have been born a slave like Epictetus, but I wasn't, so I try to be thankful for just having a life in which I have some control.

I could choose to not be here anymore, but what good does that do me? I am already here and might as well accept that and explore life and this world and our past and our future and embrace as much of the advantages that modern life affords to someone like me that many humans who have ever existed never had. In this choose-your-own adventure life, we have literally hundreds of options (maybe too many).

I fully accept your belief that most everything is meaningless. Every work I create will fade into dust at some point and I think that is ok. As humans, we have this weird drive to be remembered and acknowledged and validated and this thought afflicts no one to a greater degree than people whose only goal is to be famous and revered.

I am constantly reminded of the story of Ozymandias (Ramses II). He was a 13th Century BCE Egyptian Pharoah. He ordered the construction of a large statue of himself that once built, stood many meters high. In the 1800s, Napoleon Bonaparte's soldiers "rediscovered" the statue and found that in the preceding 3000 years, the top half of Ramses II's body had toppled and his head now lay at his own feet. The poet Percy Shelley wrote a sonnet about the statue in which he describes the inscription on the statue as proclaiming Ramses II's greatness. Basically, Ramses II had proclaimed (I am paraphrasing in more modern language for clarity) "I am Ramses II, King of Kings! Look upon my statue and my kingdom, you little person, and acknowledge my greatness!" Yet, what greatness? A ruined statue in the middle of the desert?

From my perspective, the universe is "telling" us to stop being vain and the more vain we are about our self-importance, the more that will only lead to disappointment. The vainest men in history will all eventually be forgotten (or their histories so warped) and all their attempts at immortalization will result in the same outcome. Even humanity as a whole can be pretty vain. "We" have accomplished "so much" yet, if every nuke on Earth were fired today, erasing humanity and its cultural legacy for all time, our only "accomplishment" would be the pair of Voyager spacecraft that have left the solar system and will be soaring through the Oort Cloud for the next million years. Those spacecraft would literally be all that is left of humanity's cumulative accomplishments over the past 10,000 years, which is kind of cool in a way.

I fully recognize that I am not great and accept that I am mediocre in almost everything and that's fine with me. Competing with 7 billion other humans to be the greatest at any thing might literally kill me, so I'll be happy being the 3,832,659,328th greatest person currently alive because the only person who truly cares about me is me. My impact might be small, but I can still have an impact especially in service to others. Because I am physically capable of helping others, I should, and in doing so, that brings me a lot of joy. All long-lasting philosophies and religions put heavy emphasis on service to others, and I think it might be the most reliable path to inner peace and joy, even though it might not equal exuberant happiness.

Your life goal for a long time was to SERVE your parents, and you did and that is pretty great. Maybe now, your goal should be to SERVE someone else, whether that is 1 person, 100 people, or 1000 people. Don't focus on the number, just focus on mutual benefit.

Great response, forces me to upgrade the thread to at least Notable.

Ironically, I find the most educated people on religion are the least religious because they expose the veil of culture, tradition, and society. Studying religion is how I escaped religion.

Because I am physically capable of helping others, I should, and in doing so, that brings me a lot of joy. All long-lasting philosophies and religions put heavy emphasis on service to others, and I think it might be the most reliable path to inner peace and joy, even though it might not equal exuberant happiness.

Your life goal for a long time was to SERVE your parents, and you did and that is pretty great. Maybe now, your goal should be to SERVE someone else, whether that is 1 person, 100 people, or 1000 people. Don't focus on the number, just focus on mutual benefit.

Agreed. Many religions share some common themes and yes, service to others is one of them. I believe this is a conduit to happiness, and something many religions get right.

The fact that @MTF found purpose in serving his parents might be something to lean on. His various business efforts also seem intentioned to serve, and if they don't meet those expectations, he feels "let down" or disappointed.
 
Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

Kung Fu Steve

Legendary Contributor
FASTLANE INSIDER
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
283%
Jul 8, 2008
2,718
7,698
Road Warrior
My man.

Knowing you from afar for the past couple of years I can say there's absolutely nothing wrong with you.

There's nothing wrong with you.

AND if you'll remember from some of the time we've spent together -- depression, sadness, and frustration are all emotional patterns brought on by a set of rules, values, and how you evaluate things.

Unhappiness is created when your life conditions don't match your blueprint (how you think it SHOULD be).

"I should be happy." -- what has to happen in order for you to be happy? I can guarantee that's a long list for you. What would have to happen for you to wake up happy? Excited? Has there EVER been a time in your life you've woken up happy and excited? (I know it's never ever happened -- but if it did -- what was going on? What were you thinking about? What were you focused on?)

You can solve this problem short-term with physiology (side note, check your testosterone levels), a focus on gratitude and what you HAVE instead of what you LACK, and speak to yourself a little nicer why don't ya? (you've got unbelievable talents, and you have the ability to learn any skill you put your mind to. stop this bullshit of "I'm not good at anything" :hilarious: )

But here's where the long-term solution lies: a shift of your moving toward and moving away from values. There's a conflict inside of you that's causing all of this and you can easily find it and change it so this is solved once and for all.

Remember when we did values training?

Most people's towards values are things like Success, Freedom, Happiness (or something like that)

And their away-from values are things like Rejection, Failure, and Loneliness (just examples)

But with Success being someone's number one moving toward value (the thing most important to them), and Rejection being their number one thing they want to avoid in life...

There's always going to be internal turmoil.

That's the root problem for us all. All these symptoms you're identifying are not the problem.

Remember, there's only 9 areas of your life that you can change. If you change 1 you change your life. If you change all 9 of them you have a radically different path.

Go back to your personal development work. Do some priming before-hand. Get yourself in the right emotional state, then really explore the values. If you want that exercise again just send me a message I'll shoot it over.
 

MTF

Never give up
FASTLANE INSIDER
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
Read Fastlane!
Read Unscripted!
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
455%
May 1, 2011
7,560
34,430
The problem with mental health at the moment, is the way it's implemented. For example, my therapist was obsessed back then about the fact that I had to spend time with friends, when what I wanted was to be useful and valuable. So I'd always get "negative" reviews because I didn't socialize enough, but who says that I should live like that if I don't enjoy it?

The point here is that treatment is standardized, and they have clear patterns for what's right and what's wrong. Most therapists will simply not have the flexibility required to guide you towards what's right for you. And let's not forget that the goal of therapy is to make you into a "normal" (meaning average) human being. Have a job, have a family, that's it. if you can do that, and you're happy with it, then, according to a therapist, you're doing great!

That's how I see it as well. I'm a very messed up human being with lots of eccentric behaviors and beliefs and speaking to a normie therapist and listening to his normie advice would be a waste of time. People do have different values in life and I wouldn't fit the standards (have a job, have a family, etc.).

@MTF I wasn't sure if I should post my post. It isn't my goal to highlight the bleakness of existence.

I posted it because I find some small comfort in knowing that someone else is thinking about this (therefore, I feel less alone). Also, I feel like it is the only comfort I can offer to anyone who might follow a similar line of thinking.

I hope that someone will change my mind and that something I read here will lead to a major perspective shift, but I don't expect that will happen.

Probably best for everyone else not to dwell on this or read too much into it.

I appreciate your post because it makes me feel that someone else thought about this as well. Otherwise I'd be like "how can nobody else think about it?"

Yup, It's the most exciting part of the day.

You are still alive and just got another shot at life.

The possibilities are endless.

One day you might not wake up.

Today you did.

Enjoy it.

Well technically if you don't wake up then you won't be aware you haven't woken up lol.

Logically I understand this perspective. Emotionally, when I wake up feeling like shit, it's hard to be like "woohoo, another shot at life."

Now then... why didn't/couldn't you see it that way? Can you train yourself to better see the positives instead of the negatives?

Like I said before, there's something inside me that prevents me from seeing things like that. I groan internally at people who are too positive. It feels fake and often cheesy. Why I don't see this thread as a positive thread? Maybe because we talk about depression, death and not seeing the point of it all? Not everything in life is positive, feel-good, and happy.
 

MTF

Never give up
FASTLANE INSIDER
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
Read Fastlane!
Read Unscripted!
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
455%
May 1, 2011
7,560
34,430
I could choose to not be here anymore, but what good does that do me? I am already here and might as well accept that and explore life and this world and our past and our future and embrace as much of the advantages that modern life affords to someone like me that many humans who have ever existed never had. In this choose-your-own adventure life, we have literally hundreds of options (maybe too many).

Thank you for taking the time to write your post.

That's the view I decided to accept the last time I was really down. Since nothing matters anyway, I can just fill the life with whatever since I'm already here. It does sound to me as something more sensible than trying to come up with this silly big purpose that's supposed to change the world (while in reality the world doesn't give a single F*ck about any individual).

From my perspective, the universe is "telling" us to stop being vain and the more vain we are about our self-importance, the more that will only lead to disappointment. The vainest men in history will all eventually be forgotten (or their histories so warped) and all their attempts at immortalization will result in the same outcome. Even humanity as a whole can be pretty vain. "We" have accomplished "so much" yet, if every nuke on Earth were fired today, erasing humanity and its cultural legacy for all time, our only "accomplishment" would be the pair of Voyager spacecraft that have left the solar system and will be soaring through the Oort Cloud for the next million years. Those spacecraft would literally be all that is left of humanity's cumulative accomplishments over the past 10,000 years, which is kind of cool in a way.

That makes sense and I agree with that. I'm not sure why I have this belief that my life has to mean something even though I'm fully aware I don't mean anything.

I fully recognize that I am not great and accept that I am mediocre in almost everything and that's fine with me. Competing with 7 billion other humans to be the greatest at any thing might literally kill me, so I'll be happy being the 3,832,659,328th greatest person currently alive because the only person who truly cares about me is me.

I'm a perfectionist and I feel like often it's not worth it to invest effort in something if the end result will be subpar. For example, I see zero point in writing a book that will be read by a few hundred people. Doing things on a small scale just doesn't satisfy me. And if I want to do something on a larger scale and find someone doing it way better, I also think it's a waste of my time because it's just inefficient.

Your life goal for a long time was to SERVE your parents, and you did and that is pretty great. Maybe now, your goal should be to SERVE someone else, whether that is 1 person, 100 people, or 1000 people. Don't focus on the number, just focus on mutual benefit.

I thought writing my newsletter would give me some of that but frankly, I don't get that feeling from writing. I can even get thank-you letters and stuff and it's nice and all but it doesn't make me feel anything. Maybe because it's online and it's too abstract to feel as if I'm truly helping someone.
 
Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

MTF

Never give up
FASTLANE INSIDER
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
Read Fastlane!
Read Unscripted!
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
455%
May 1, 2011
7,560
34,430
Dwayne Johnson talks about remembering the tough times in order to not get lazy and losing your drive. I agree because it's so easy to get used to your financial freedom, health and relationships. Gratitude is something that has to actively be cultivated. And any existential crisis fades in the face of sickness, poverty, and having to meaningful relationships. If your life is hell you don't care about the fact that "this to shall pass". Right now there are about 40 million slaves on earth. I bet you each and every one of those would be totally excited to wake up a free person tomorrow and the rest of their lives.

I've been practicing gratitude with my girlfriend for almost a year already. Each evening we share 5 things we're grateful for. I'd say that I got very good at seeing even very little things I'm grateful for.

But from my experience being grateful doesn't equal feeling like your life has meaning. You just aren't that negative and entitled.

Do you have trouble falling asleep when you wake up at night?

Sometimes but usually not.

Do you sometimes wake up at night and have a headache?

No. I have recurrent headaches but not at night (unless I don't take a painkiller before going to sleep when I already have a slight headache but then I'll wake up dying from earsplitting pain).

I don't know how much of these you have incorporated into your life (or none!) - and I'm a true believer they are a great place to start.

I've tried a shit ton of different things, and of course all the basics. Now it pisses me off when people give cliche advice like "take vitamin D" or "have a morning ritual" (I'm not pissed off at you, just pointing out what I often see online).

For me - new purpose needs to be re-established each and every single day. Sometimes things last for a day - other times for a decade or longer. Part of life to me is to keep re-figuring out today's purpose and figuring out how I can best serve myself and those around me consistently - to the best of my energy and power.

Yep, and that's my problem. No idea how to re-establish it or re-figure it out.

Yeah I agree here to be honest, here's my personal take -
I guess if you are able to involve some meditation/mindfulness after you wake up it can help.

I used to follow a lot of these gurus and had some of their courses and it's just buzzed words for them, they love saying this stuff. I certainly have shit days, definitely not excited every day, rarely to be honest, but you can do things like watch your diet/workout/meditate daily (I have been doing these things) and they really can help you stay somewhat grounded and focused, and if you can stay calm and grounded then you don't really need the whole "happiness" dream, lol. Call me a pessimist but I'm just realistic, especially after being that person who did try over and over again to be happy every day. It wasn't until I let go of that desire and became more at ease with not always feeling happy that I started feeling happy in a way, but who cares about happiness, it's very fluctuating.

For me, groundedness and doing more things to remain calm has been far more beneficial.

Hope that helps with some insight.

Cheers

I did one hour of meditation a day for 257 days in a row. It messed me up instead of helping me and I'm so F*cking glad I don't have to do this bullshit anymore. Since then, I'm a meditation hater lol. Meditation while doing sports or being out in nature >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BS "sitting" meditation.
 

MTF

Never give up
FASTLANE INSIDER
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
Read Fastlane!
Read Unscripted!
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
455%
May 1, 2011
7,560
34,430
Also, being from Ireland its usually super dark and rainy everyday when I wake up. I do perform slightly better during mornings in the summer or when I'm on holidays abroad.

It's summer now and while I may sound like I hate waking up, I actually feel good now compared to the winter. My original question was about waking up REALLY excited. I don't wake up REALLY excited but I don't wake up dreading the day as I do during the winter.

Right now, I go swimming in the morning a few times a week. I can go on a walk in just a t-shirt and shorts, I can spend hours in the sun or in the forest and it's comfortable. Everything's green, there's a lot of blue skies, I hear birds every day, and I get to bake in the sun whenever I want to. I'm extremely grateful for that.

When I asked the original question I was curious who wakes up as excited as self-help gurus. I'm NOT glad you don't wake up really excited but I'm glad to hear that even accomplished people on this forum don't necessarily live in a fairy tale. My girlfriend is like you in that she doesn't function well during the first 2-3 hours of the morning (but particularly the first hour after waking up).

The fact that @MTF found purpose in serving his parents might be something to lean on. His various business efforts also seem intentioned to serve, and if they don't meet those expectations, he feels "let down" or disappointed.

I don't want this to sound whiny. It's just an observation but... If I have to practically BEG people to let me serve them, then I lose enthusiasm to do it. This begging usually comes down to marketing my stuff which I hate doing. I never had to beg my parents (or any animal or any friend) to let me serve them. I just did that and they were thankful.

So my business efforts lead to disappointment because it feels as if I'm trying to help people who either don't need help or value it very little. So why bother.

The job of a writer is often like that. Maybe you inspire someone but the truth is that very, very few people do anything with this kind of inspiration. So again, why bother.

I now have over 500 subscribers on my list but from what I've noticed my true impact is close to zero and is no match for shallow but "cool" social media BS. I get way more reward from encouraging my friend to do a workout and guiding him or even from picking up a few pieces of trash in the forest than from following my supposed "superpower."

I guess the lesson here maybe is that I'm violating the commandment of need.
 

Post New Topic

Please SEARCH before posting.
Please select the BEST category.

Post new topic

Guest post submissions offered HERE.

New Topics

Fastlane Insiders

View the forum AD FREE.
Private, unindexed content
Detailed process/execution threads
Ideas needing execution, more!

Join Fastlane Insiders.

Top