The Entrepreneur Forum | Financial Freedom | Starting a Business | Motivation | Money | Success

Welcome to the only entrepreneur forum dedicated to building life-changing wealth.

Build a Fastlane business. Earn real financial freedom. Join free.

Join over 80,000 entrepreneurs who have rejected the paradigm of mediocrity and said "NO!" to underpaid jobs, ascetic frugality, and suffocating savings rituals— learn how to build a Fastlane business that pays both freedom and lifestyle affluence.

Free registration at the forum removes this block.

The Internet is broken ... can we still win?

seomatic

Bronze Contributor
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
96%
Jan 24, 2011
228
219
Germany
I was reading this book The Ten Equations That Rule The World. And one of the Equation is essentially the algorithm used by most social networks these days. In short, if you got traction you will continue to grow but if you don't have traction you are invisible and there is pretty much no chance to come up. Because what social networks are doing is promoting the already popular content.

So I did a lot of research and I think it's really bad. Instead of showing a new upcoming creator, youtube for example will show the 10th boring video of the same clowns. Take for example MJs channel, it's jam-packed with priceless content. However overall it has 2.2 million views, that may sound a lot but consider it's nothing on youtube where nonsense videos have tens of millions of views all day long.

So how is this fair and how are we supposed to still win when the deck is stacked against us? I mean most of the popular channels make trash content and are super old.
Same for FB or Google Ads ... if you would be in charge who would you give the best quality traffic, the guy spending $100 per day or the company spending $100k per day?
 
Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

Fox

Legendary Contributor
Staff member
FASTLANE INSIDER
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
Read Rat-Race Escape!
Read Fastlane!
Read Unscripted!
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
Forum Sponsor
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
690%
Aug 19, 2015
3,881
26,764
Europe
I view this differently.

Youtube is just giving people want they want (for the most part).
And most people just want to watch entertainment and not be thinking too hard about hard work.

MJ caters to people who are really looking to take massive action and get out of their comfort zone.
And that isn't most people.

It isn't meant to be "fair" - Youtube is just doing what makes sense for them to max viewing time and advertising dollars. If you want to win on their platform you got to play their game.
 

Einfamilienhaus

Bronze Contributor
Read Fastlane!
Read Unscripted!
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
188%
Feb 8, 2019
217
408
Are you sure about Google Ads? Do you think that the metrics of your ads play a bigger role than the money you invest? The amount of money you invest doesn't determine if you rank on the first place.

But maybe I'm wrong and @Andy Black has another opinion about that.

I also dont believe that the YouTube algorithm really cares about quality. Depending on your niche, it is more or even more about quantity.
 
Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

Kid

Gold Contributor
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
98%
Mar 1, 2016
1,736
1,707
If you think YouTube platform is bad, then create TikTok platform.
20/20 in hindsight and foresight.
 

Fox

Legendary Contributor
Staff member
FASTLANE INSIDER
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
Read Rat-Race Escape!
Read Fastlane!
Read Unscripted!
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
Forum Sponsor
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
690%
Aug 19, 2015
3,881
26,764
Europe
If you keep looking for the reasons why you can't win...

...What do you think will happen?

100% this. People join YT every day and win - focus on what they are doing.
 

seomatic

Bronze Contributor
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
96%
Jan 24, 2011
228
219
Germany
I view this differently.

Youtube is just giving people want they want (for the most part).
And most people just want to watch entertainment and not be thinking too hard about hard work.

MJ caters to people who are really looking to take massive action and get out of their comfort zone.
And that isn't most people.

It isn't meant to be "fair" - Youtube is just doing what makes sense for them to max viewing time and advertising dollars. If you want to win on their platform you got to play their game.

yeah that's what I believed for a long time, too. But it's not true. For example I watched all of MJs videos, some of them 10+ times and additional business content. Guess how often YT recommends MJs content ... zero, nada zilch. How is that a good algo?

My recommendations are so bad. It's just the same stuff over and over again. I get much better recommendations after logout. And on the trend page most content is not even in my language. How is it possible that a trillion dollar can't even detect my language. I did that in my first PHP session.
 
Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

seomatic

Bronze Contributor
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
96%
Jan 24, 2011
228
219
Germany
If you think YouTube platform is bad, then create TikTok platform.
20/20 in hindsight and foresight.

TikTok is even worse than YT. So the goal is to produce the biggest piece of trash?
 

seomatic

Bronze Contributor
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
96%
Jan 24, 2011
228
219
Germany
If you keep looking for the reasons why you can't win...

...What do you think will happen?

I'm not looking for reasons. I've read a book written by a mathematician based on scientific evidence.
Why should I neglect this information?
 

MTF

Never give up
FASTLANE INSIDER
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
Read Fastlane!
Read Unscripted!
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
455%
May 1, 2011
7,560
34,430
So how is this fair and how are we supposed to still win when the deck is stacked against us?

It's not fair but life is not fair.

Noah Kagan is very bullish on YouTube. Guess how much he spends each year to grow his YouTube channel...

$500,000.

Yep, half a million. So if you want to enter his niche, the odds are stacked against you for sure. And I guess the same applies to many other big niches. So you either go after a smaller niche where there's still a chance or hustle like crazy to try to catch up with guys with huge budgets.

Either way, IMO I agree it's incredibly hard these days in some competitive niches. And so it happens that the most interesting niches for most are the ones where competition is crazy.

If I weren't so damn focused on writing and online businesses and wasn't so hell-bent on location independence, I'd just focus on an oldschool local business where nobody cares about your BS "social presence."

I'm not a social media hater. It does provide huge opportunities for the right person. But as a person who likes simplicity, it would sure be nice to have a business that only requires you to create a good product and focus on improving it. How nice would it be to not have to waste time creating "content" and obsessing over vanity metrics like followers or likes?
 
Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.
G

Guest-5ty5s4

Guest
I was reading this book The Ten Equations That Rule The World. And one of the Equation is essentially the algorithm used by most social networks these days. In short, if you got traction you will continue to grow but if you don't have traction you are invisible and there is pretty much no chance to come up. Because what social networks are doing is promoting the already popular content.

So I did a lot of research and I think it's really bad. Instead of showing a new upcoming creator, youtube for example will show the 10th boring video of the same clowns. Take for example MJs channel, it's jam-packed with priceless content. However overall it has 2.2 million views, that may sound a lot but consider it's nothing on youtube where nonsense videos have tens of millions of views all day long.

So how is this fair and how are we supposed to still win when the deck is stacked against us? I mean most of the popular channels make trash content and are super old.
Same for FB or Google Ads ... if you would be in charge who would you give the best quality traffic, the guy spending $100 per day or the company spending $100k per day?
I sort of agree with you about how a handful of companies control the internet in a very dumb way, BUT think you're missing a huge piece of the puzzle:

Growth OUTSIDE of those companies and their algorithm-controlled domains.

For instance, maybe my website is hopelessly buried in search... The key might be to go do shit in real life to bring traction, not try to hack my way to the top of Google's results!

(In fact, that's what I've been trying to do with my newer side business - My biz cards have my email and website)
 
Last edited by a moderator:

seomatic

Bronze Contributor
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
96%
Jan 24, 2011
228
219
Germany
Are you sure about Google Ads? Do you think that the metrics of your ads play a bigger role than the money you invest? The amount of money you invest doesn't determine if you rank on the first place.

But maybe I'm wrong and @Andy Black has another opinion about that.

I also dont believe that the YouTube algorithm really cares about quality. Depending on your niche, it is more or even more about quantity.

Google has gone on record saying they prefer brands in organic search. And for Google Ads, account history is an important metric that has huge influence. I mean to some degree it's the same I would do. But it has gone way too far. Seriously thinking about a law suit.
 

Kid

Gold Contributor
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
98%
Mar 1, 2016
1,736
1,707
The question was:
So how is this fair and how are we supposed to still win when the deck is stacked against us?
Theory of systems say that system is always strongest. Everything within the system is weaker and under systems control.

TikTok is even worse than YT. So the goal is to produce the biggest piece of trash?>

Yes, do new trash without thinking that you are doomed by existing trash which is answer to your question.
Youtube sucks? Do tt. TT sucks? Do clubhouse. Clubhouse sucks? Do something next.

THEN have enough money to spend on quality things.
 
Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

seomatic

Bronze Contributor
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
96%
Jan 24, 2011
228
219
Germany
Noah Kagan is very bullish on YouTube. Guess how much he spends each year to grow his YouTube channel...

$500,000.

Oh wow. He was employee #30 at FB. Let's assume it was not luck and he planned it = good for him. Now he sits in a pool with another dude and sips rose. This is exactly the nonsense content I'm talking about. Nobody wants to see this.
 
D

Deleted78083

Guest
The title is a bit too clickbaity for me.

The internet isn't Yt, and it isn't google either. Users still have the last words. And then a huge part of the internet is p*rn, where google does not exist, then another part is the dark web, where google doesn't exist either.

As to answer your question, if there is an algorithm, you study the algorithm. At the end of the day, the algorithm doesn't serve content creators.

It serves users.

Case study: Mr. Beast.

 

seomatic

Bronze Contributor
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
96%
Jan 24, 2011
228
219
Germany
The title is a bit too clickbaity for me.

yeah I was too long on YT. And you see it works. You clicked and then you commented.

So porn is also controlled by one company (MindGeek / Manwin) they own all the leading sites and what they are doing is publishing pirated content. (Remember when people still bought porn in the 90s?)

Here is my YT trending page. I don't speak any russian (not in russia and not using any VPN either) and I'm not 13 years old. How does it serve the user to show me this garbage? How does it relate to me?
 
Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

Attachments

  • Screen Shot 2021-05-11 at 22.08.07.png
    Screen Shot 2021-05-11 at 22.08.07.png
    947.6 KB · Views: 19

MTF

Never give up
FASTLANE INSIDER
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
Read Fastlane!
Read Unscripted!
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
455%
May 1, 2011
7,560
34,430
Now he sits in a pool with another dude and sips rose. This is exactly the nonsense content I'm talking about. Nobody wants to see this.

You're in black and white mode now. Noah creates some of the most useful business content on YouTube and he actually doesn't get as many views as he should for the value he provides. So he's also the "victim" you're talking about.

But would you rather get 50k views from people interested in you who are eager to buy from you or 5 million views from people who gave you a thumbs up and forgot about you a second later?
 
D

Deleted78083

Guest
yeah I was too long on YT. And you see it works. You clicked and then you commented.

So porn is also controlled by one company (MindGeek / Manwin) they own all the leading sites and what they are doing is publishing pirated content. (Remember when people still bought porn in the 90s?)

Here is my YT trending page. I don't speak any russian (not in russia and not using any VPN either) and I'm not 13 years old. How does it serve the user to show me this garbage? How does it relate to me?
So Youtube owe you good content?

Honestly i don't see your point, and i don't see the point of this thread.

It would have been more interesting to have a book discussion where you provide some background and context, a summary of the book, and then your point so we can all discuss it.
 

seomatic

Bronze Contributor
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
96%
Jan 24, 2011
228
219
Germany
You're in black and white mode now. Noah creates some of the most useful business content on YouTube and he actually doesn't get as many views as he should for the value he provides. So he's also the "victim" you're talking about.

But would you rather get 50k views from people interested in you who are eager to buy from you or 5 million views from people who gave you a thumbs up and forgot about you a second later?
First of all I'm not a victim. I created a channel in 2012. Forgot about it and it raked in 2.5 million views. That's when I realized how stupid this is.

And that's exactly my point. I want to see content from people I care about, not this "trending" BS.

By the way I think MJ should publish another video soon! :)
 
Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

seomatic

Bronze Contributor
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
96%
Jan 24, 2011
228
219
Germany
So Youtube owe you good content?

Honestly i don't see your point, and i don't see the point of this thread.

It would have been more interesting to have a book discussion where you provide some background and context, a summary of the book, and then your point so we can all discuss it.

Would you have clicked on a title saying "book discussion" instead of "the internet is broken". I highly doubt it.

I'm not finished with the book, just through a few pages. We can do it, once I'm done.
 
D

Deleted78083

Guest
Would you have clicked on a title saying "book discussion" instead of "the internet is broken". I highly doubt it.

I'm not finished with the book, just through a few pages. We can do it, once I'm done.
If you create threads just to get people to click on it instead of providing value then you are no better than the people from Youtube you complained about.
 

Einfamilienhaus

Bronze Contributor
Read Fastlane!
Read Unscripted!
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
188%
Feb 8, 2019
217
408
yeah that's what I believed for a long time, too. But it's not true. For example I watched all of MJs videos, some of them 10+ times and additional business content. Guess how often YT recommends MJs content ... zero, nada zilch. How is that a good algo?

If you would talk about ethics and responsibility in algorithms, it would be a valid point. Good content with value should be pushed. But it sounds to me like why other Youtubers are more successful than MJ and it should the other way around?! Do you think there is a big conspiracy against MJ because he is telling the one truth?

Metrics about MJs channel:
It is 12 years old, has 45 videos and his latest video is 7 months old. With all Love to MJ but this is not enough to be a well known Youtuber. People who upload regularly should be pushed better. No matter of the content. This is fair.

I also dont think that MJs intention was to be THE hype YouTuber. I think he just uses YouTube to create awareness for his books.

Google has gone on record saying they prefer brands in organic search. And for Google Ads, account history is an important metric that has huge influence. I mean to some degree it's the same I would do. But it has gone way too far. Seriously thinking about a law suit.
A law suit against Google for what kind of reasons? Maybe my English skills are not enough to get your point of view properly.
Google has created his own Colosseum with his own rules. If you don't like the rules, dont play.

Here is my YT trending page. I don't speak any russian (not in russia and not using any VPN either) and I'm not 13 years old. How does it serve the user to show me this garbage? How does it relate to me?
I think it says a lot about your user behaviour. Just kidding, I had to write it ;)
 
Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

MJ DeMarco

I followed the science; all I found was money.
Staff member
FASTLANE INSIDER
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
Read Rat-Race Escape!
Read Fastlane!
Read Unscripted!
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
445%
Jul 23, 2007
38,076
169,482
Utah
It is 12 years old, has 45 videos and his latest video is 7 months old.

Damn, that's too long to go without a video. I've got to get one up. And yea, I don't put enough time into YouTube like a should, it is the one SM channel I find worth its effort.

Facebook...

Facebook sucks a$$. My pages have 150K+ likes and a post reaches .00000000000001 of them. Sorry, I won't be extorted into give FB money because they refuse to let me reach an audience I built.
 

ZCP

Legendary Contributor
Staff member
FASTLANE INSIDER
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
Read Rat-Race Escape!
Read Fastlane!
Read Unscripted!
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
336%
Oct 22, 2010
3,952
13,267
Woodstock, GA
want to help @MJ DeMarco .... post about him on youtube .... mention him on reddit
leave breadcrumbs
buy his book for people

hell, someone drive out and film him and do the youtube for him
video call / chat
@Mike Partee , think you could get an MJ video up this week?
 

CruxisKnight

Bronze Contributor
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
98%
Jan 7, 2021
104
102
I was reading this book The Ten Equations That Rule The World. And one of the Equation is essentially the algorithm used by most social networks these days. In short, if you got traction you will continue to grow but if you don't have traction you are invisible and there is pretty much no chance to come up. Because what social networks are doing is promoting the already popular content.

So I did a lot of research and I think it's really bad. Instead of showing a new upcoming creator, youtube for example will show the 10th boring video of the same clowns. Take for example MJs channel, it's jam-packed with priceless content. However overall it has 2.2 million views, that may sound a lot but consider it's nothing on youtube where nonsense videos have tens of millions of views all day long.

So how is this fair and how are we supposed to still win when the deck is stacked against us? I mean most of the popular channels make trash content and are super old.
Same for FB or Google Ads ... if you would be in charge who would you give the best quality traffic, the guy spending $100 per day or the company spending $100k per day?
I would just pay to have my content shown
 
Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

Andy Black

Help people. Get paid. Help more people.
Staff member
FASTLANE INSIDER
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
Read Fastlane!
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
370%
May 20, 2014
18,563
68,689
Ireland
It’s simple enough I think.

Figure out what YouTubeGoogle/Facebook wants. Give it to them.

Zig Ziglar’s quote works for big companies as well as people.
 

CruxisKnight

Bronze Contributor
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
98%
Jan 7, 2021
104
102
It’s simple enough I think.

Figure out what YouTubeGoogle/Facebook wants. Give it to them.

Zig Ziglar’s quote works for big companies as well as people.
But I guess OP is complaining about the fact that he is already doing that, but the big competition are beating him to it so like why even bother
 

Aryan 7835

New Contributor
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
25%
Dec 30, 2020
4
1
I'm not looking for reasons. I've read a book written by a mathematician based on scientific evidence.
Why should I neglect this information?
Yes, you should listen to that as well, because it is the truth
but If for example MJ sets out a course then certainly every subscriber is going to buy it and the course can be costly because people are action based on his channel

apart the useless content which gets 10M+ views they only earn from ad revenue they can't have a subscription. even if they made a subscription, the viewers they have are not into taking actions and all

This is one more way to look at this
 
Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

Johnny boy

Legendary Contributor
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
620%
May 9, 2017
2,929
18,172
27
Washington State
If you want to grow a tree you should plant a seed and water it, not complain that you didn’t plant one 5 years ago.

Life is always stacked against the people who haven’t started yet.

It always feels better in the end when it’s like that. You’ll thank yourself in 3 years because of the momentum you have.
 

CruxisKnight

Bronze Contributor
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
98%
Jan 7, 2021
104
102
If you want to grow a tree you should plant a seed and water it, not complain that you didn’t plant one 5 years ago.

Life is always stacked against the people who haven’t started yet.

It always feels better in the end when it’s like that. You’ll thank yourself in 3 years because of the momentum you have.
And then people will complain that they cant get a start in their business because you are that big competitor that stacks the odds in your favor against them the little guys
 

Post New Topic

Please SEARCH before posting.
Please select the BEST category.

Post new topic

Guest post submissions offered HERE.

New Topics

Fastlane Insiders

View the forum AD FREE.
Private, unindexed content
Detailed process/execution threads
Ideas needing execution, more!

Join Fastlane Insiders.

Top