<div class="bbWrapper">Interesting thread, I'm surprised that this topic wasn't discussed before on the forum (or maybe I missed it).<br />
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As someone who's 99% sure that I won't ever want kid, I want to give my opinion. The 1% uncertainty comes from me being in a long term relationship (almost 7 years, living together for 3-4 years) - she doesn't want kids right now but she will in the future.<br />
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My goal is not to prove anybody wrong, but just to give a different point of view.<br />
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<blockquote data-attributes="member: 74910" data-quote="Tom H." data-source="post: 913792"
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Saying "it's expensive" is for losers, stop being poor. Saying "you're giving up your life" is also for losers, grow up and get over yourself.<br />
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If I didn't want a family life, I'd be a monk and meditate full-time. I can't see myself living in the world without a family. For what? For my ego? For pleasure? For narcissism?<br />
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Some people think the individual is the fundamental unit of society. Sadly, a lot of people today seem to think it's the state... but I believe that the family is the fundamental building block of society.<br />
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At the basic level, we need family to survive and our only real purpose is to procreate. People can argue whatever hippie bullshit they want against that, but it's the harsh reality of biology. So we are hard-wired to want children. Even though it's a completely insane thing to do, we keep doing it.<br />
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I believe you can lead a fulfilling life without children, but for most people, starting a family is a skillful thing to do. I thought my wife wouldn't be able to have a baby and I started exploring that life. I could do it and create meaning if I had to.<br />
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@ProcessPro I think you're smart to bring up this topic because family isn't something to take lightly, it's worth spending time learning and thinking about.
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</blockquote>When you say "I can't see myself living in the world without a family", I think this perfectly sums it up. It's just a question of knowing what is your vision for your life, how you'd feel living this or that kind of life.<br />
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I feel like saying "our only real purpose is to procreate" is a bit narrow regarding our experience of life. Biologically, I agree with you.<br />
But if you think about how our species evolved, and where we are from an evolutionary standpoint, I disagree.<br />
I think that this was true when we were at the beginning of our history as a species: because there were so many threats out there (predators, diseases, etc.) and because there were so few of us, yes our most important purpose was to procreate.<br />
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But right now, we're more than enough on the planet. I'm not saying we should kill people, or totally stop making kids, but the truth is that it is not a necessity anymore.<br />
Same for saying "at the basic level, we need family to survive". I don't think it's the case, not anymore at least. Yes, we still need someone to take care of our basic needs until we come to an age where we are able to take care of our needs., and to provide fundamentals to make us a functioning adult.<br />
What I think we can't survive without though, is a social network. We all need to have interactions with other people, some people less than others.<br />
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<blockquote data-attributes="member: 64612" data-quote="Kevin88660" data-source="post: 913811"
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Imagine we you and your wife are in the 70s. Cannot walk or see things clearly, and need to visit the hospitals for regular check up.<br />
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It is always good to have someone to call to when you just accidentally had a fall.<br />
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I get to interact with a lot of old people in my industry/circle. The old cliche is still true. There are things that money can’t buy.<br />
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Having too much money in your 80s and having no choice but to leave it for your favorite charity or young helpers..is to some extend regretable.
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</blockquote>Let me tell you the story of my grandfather. Had 10 children, had to remarry because my grandma died before him and there was some things he could not take care of (he was almost blind and diabetic).<br />
When my grandmother died, the family exploded, and my grandfather had less visits from his children and grandchildren.<br />
When he died, he left us some real estate. One of my uncle bought it, he distributed the money from the sale to the family and as it was not an expensive building, when you're dividing it by 10, you don't end up with a life-changing amount of money.<br />
The building collapsed because of some construction site right next to it that did some damage to the structure. No way to recoup the money because insurance stated that the building was erected on a wobbly ground.<br />
See, there's always some risk with about eveything, you just don't know it yet.<br />
Keep in mind, I'm not stating you should avoid doing or trying anything because there's some risk involved.<br />
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<blockquote data-attributes="member: 13831" data-quote="Lex DeVille" data-source="post: 913832"
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I have a kid and I kick more a$$ than most of you and I'm fitter and better looking too. I'm selfish tho. I spend all day with my family, and all day doing what I want, including growing my income.<br />
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If you have a weak mind and you have a kid, you will still have a weak mind when the baby comes. Same goes for if you have a strong mind before/after.<br />
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If you don't have a kid and you choke on a McNugget, your kid won't save your life because you never had one. In that sense, they're an expensive long-term insurance policy.<br />
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Also, I don't plan to die ever and I'll go to any length to ensure my continued existence.
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</blockquote>I laughed at your comment haha.<br />
Seriously though, your comment hits close to home because I spent several months, even a couple of years to be honest, with a really weak state of mind. I'm just starting to bounce back.<br />
And sometimes I'm wondering if me thinking I don't want kids is because I spent a long time in a bad mental state or if this is who I am.<br />
Regarding choking hazard, well... thats a good point haha! But you could choke when your kid's at school (not that I want that to happen to you!)<br />
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<blockquote data-attributes="member: 40624" data-quote="GatsbyMag" data-source="post: 913835"
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I'm with my close friend @Lex DeVille on this.<br />
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At the end of the day, the most basic function of life is to continue your genetic lineage.<br />
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If you can't do that, then your lineage ends with you. <b>This makes you a biological failure.</b>
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</blockquote>Your comment is similar to Tom H's. I think that saying "this makes you a biological failure" is true, but that this doesn't have as much weight as it used to.<br />
As a species, I think we're way past the biological survival stage.<br />
I can't remember where I read that, but someone said that what's important is not passing on our genes, but passing on our memes. Not in the sense that you have to feed pepe the frog pictures to kids at school, but that you have to pass knowledge and lessons your learnt to them.<br />
Of course you can do that with your own kids. You can even do that by adopting, or even fostering.<br />
You can even mentor kids.<br />
This is not something new, but I think we're getting closer everyday to this way of thinking. You could see the scouts as an organization where adults would pass their memes to young people.<br />
A lot of people work with children, either by helping them with their homework or their sports practice, and I think they feel as much pride doing this as if they were doing it for their own children.<br />
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Orcas (killer whales) are one of the most evolved mammals: they can recognize humans in water in order to not attack them - maybe they tried eating us a long time ago and came to the conclusion we were not edible. They also eat very specific parts of their preys, depending on their taste.<br />
They live together in pods (similar to wolf packs). They procreate for survival, obviously, but children are taught hunting and stuff by the whole pod, not only the parents.<br />
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<blockquote data-attributes="member: 1332" data-quote="xmartel" data-source="post: 913845"
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As soon as you have a kid, you'll understand the immense joy they bring and won't regret it. If you don't, you'll never fully understand what you missed, but will most likely come to regret not having that in your life once you get older and it's too late.
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</blockquote>I don't think this is regret, regret comes when you want something and you can't have it due to external causes. You regret it and you suffer because you did not find the right partner or because you're unable to procreate for medical reasons.<br />
In the case you're mentioning, I think it would just be what-ifs or seeing other people with a happy family and you thinking you could've had that too and wanting it for yourself. Granting your family would have turned out the same way obviously.<br />
And I feel like voluntarily childfree people don't regret their choices usually, except for those who live very dull lives, without friends, hobbies, passion or purpose, or those that had this choice made for them.<br />
Whatever our situation is, our goal is to make to most out of it.<br />
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<blockquote data-attributes="member: 23280" data-quote="csalvato" data-source="post: 913896"
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To me, this was evidence that having and nurturing children is a unique human experience. One that I would feel like I was missing out on during my short 80-year trip around the sun.
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</blockquote>I think that nurturing is not a unique human experience. I feel like the experience you're referring to is the bonding and unconditional love between you and your kids, this powerful yet invisible thread between you and them.<br />
As humans, I think we're one of the few species where parents and children do not totally part ways when growing up, our parents don't become strangers once we hit 18 (unless you had an abusive household or other issues of that sort).<br />
If I want to experience nurturing, I could take care of an injured animal or a puppy that's totally dependent on me. But experiencing that unique bond, I agree that only kids can provide that (a dog too if I'm honest, I mean look at them, some of them still love their human even if they're hitting them, we don't deserve dogs).<br />
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<b>To sum it up, there's no right or wrong answer, it's not all black or white. You can be successful and have kids, and be a total failure without kids. The opposite is also true. <br />
It all comes down to what you want in your life and making the most out of it. <br />
Do you want to have kids? Awesome, now go and try to be the best parent you can and enjoy all the perks and experiences raising children will bring. <br />
You don't want kids? Awesome too, now go and try to be the best childfree person you can, it has its perks and provides unique experiences too, enjoy them.<br />
How do you see your day to day life? If you were 90 and about to die, how do you want your memories of your life to look like?<br />
Personally, I don't hate kids, I think I would make a good father. But the life of a parent, right now, does not appeal to me and I don't know if it will ever do.</b><br />
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I'm curious to know <a href="https://www.thefastlaneforum.com/community/members/1/" class="username" data-xf-init="member-tooltip" data-user-id="1" data-username="@MJ DeMarco">@MJ DeMarco</a>'s point of view regarding kids. I remember reading in here (can't find the thread though) that he was in a relationship with a woman who has a teenager living with them at home (my memory can be faulty, sorry if this is not exact). Do you feel any regret MJ, or do you think you missed something by not having kids of your own?</div>
