WINTER IS COMING: European Winter of '22

[Andreas Thiel]

...

It is our job to find green solutions to energy problems. Just like Elon Musk is trying to do (or sell).

Just because something is not pragmatical or convenient, does not mean it is true.

Climate change is real. Burning fossil fuels is really unsustainable (whether it is convenient to burn them or not)

So yes, shutting down fossil fuel plants was correct.

What was done to replace that gap was wrong in majority.

...

True to some extent, but I keep talking to very smart people and there are no simple solutions.
Politics would play an important role no matter what and collaboration across companies is required, which free markets are incredibly bad at.
A single entrepreneur can't do much.

In science, they went down the wrong paths with nuclear energy. Even if we'd commit to the promising ones now, it would take at least 30 years to get to a point where we can create all the energy we need with nuclear power plants.
Your "reactors that do not create waste that we already have" are an extreme oversimplification.
Scaling up hydro is an option only when the "fuel" can be produced sustainably. How would that work?
Ursula von der Leyen says wind power alone will solve all out problems soon. Last time I checked, Germany could not be autonomous in winter with solar and wind power combined, even if all the theoretically available space was utilized.

I too hate it when people say sustainability efforts is for hippies and climate change is not an issue.
The free market did not fix the problem automacially, so it makes sense that some people think a top down approach is needed.
But obviously destroying the whole industry of a continent only looks good on paper.

 

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[Fox]

Buying into government Green energy policies is as scripted as it gets.



Imagine giving up control of your basic needs to heat/cool your own house or when/how you drive your car...


But...


As if politicians give AF. It is either for more control or to virtual signal.

At the start of the Russian/Ukraine war, people called on Elon Musk to stop all Tesla cars from working in Russia. If these Green politicians get their way, that will be you next - instead, it will be for anything from a new green goal or that you posted something offensive online.

If it all boils down to it, what you need most is shelter and food. And energy is a massive part of that. Giving more control to the government on this is the worst idea ever.

 

[MitchC]

Giving more control to the government on this is the worst idea ever.

This 100%.

People don’t realise they are voting for their own imprisonment when they vote for this shit.

What does “net 0” look like? Well the WEF will tell you. It means no commercial flights for one thing. 0 commercial flights by 2030 is literally written right there on their plan.

I believe the Netherlands are paying $10,000 per head of cattle that farmers cull. They are basically using tax payers dollars to starve tax payers. Apparently this will reduce carbon emissions. What will the people eat? Fake seed oil and gmo soy slop from bill gates or starve no doubt. Or crickets and bugs if you check the WEF website.

California is encouraging people not to charge their cars, what happens when electricity shortages like that become normal and everyone has electric cars?

Well clearly the govt will decide who, when and where people are allowed to drive their cars.

Which will effectively mean they’ll decide who’s work is “essential” like the pandemic, and only those people will be able to drive to work, everyone else can work from home.

Want to leave your house to do shopping or go on a road trip? Sorry get delivery from Amazon and have a holiday in Metas VR.

 

[Ermes]

The energy situation on the gas side is quite similar to that experienced by Europe in the second half of the 1970s when Russia, in 1978, decided to build the second pipeline, called Bratstvo (Brotherhood), destined to cross Ukraine to supply Europe originally with the gas of the Yamburg territories and then, following a series of delays in the massive commercial extraction from the former, with that of the Urengoj. Even at the time Germany, France, Great Britain and Italy lined up to sell pipes, compressors, control and communications systems to Russia for what would have been a 4,500 km long pipeline distributed from Urengoj to Uzhhorod.

The Urengoi – Pomeroy – Uzhgorod pipeline was the first Russian pipeline to anger the US which, to tell the truth, with Ford and Carter (at least until 1978 when a series of sanctions were launched in reaction to the interesting events Anatoly Shcharansky and Alexandr Ginzburg ) had not done much to hinder the integration of Russia into economic Europe and that with Carter they had given their initial blessing to this pipeline deemed useful for stabilizing the price of gas worldwide.
Then, in 1981, with the Reagan Administration, things began to change as the "Bratstvo" was qualified as a threat to the security of American allies in Western Europe, which is why the American President made it clear that he was trying to obstruct the project.

Because at the time there were still politicians and no waitresses in Europe, the western part of the continent did not react very well to the requests of the Americans who offered, as an alternative to Russian gas, coal at a good price (unlike LNG today offered at a high price) and nuclear technology.

Furthermore, the Americans suggested to the Europeans to buy Algerian, Nigerian and Cameroonian gas instead of the Russian one but in the meantime in Italy and France they had to block purchases from Algeria due to the much higher prices despite the fact that the submarine pipeline had already arrived in Sicily.

As Western-Russia relations deteriorate further until the application of martial law in Poland, Reagan began to make embargo to Russia on turbines and compressors manufactured in America or under license in Europe.
Gas import blockades were enormous and even Thatcher declared herself against the embargo while France and Italy forced their respective companies not to respect the American sanctions against Russia, which is why Reagan also sanctioned the rebel European companies.
However, the discontent was so strong among the American allies that in the end, starting in November 1982, Reagan was to cancel the restrictions on Russia and on European companies by asserting that the damage resulting from the blocking of Russian gas imports for the West was worse compared to those caused to the USSR by sanctions.

 

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[c4n]

Now we will flatten the curve... sounds familiar?

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567462388898594816

View: https://mobile.twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1567462388898594816

 

[originalMJT]

Now we will flatten the curve... sounds familiar?

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567462388898594816

View: https://mobile.twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1567462388898594816

Glad I'm in the UK and not in the EU run by crazy nut jobs,

 

[JordanK]

The government already has a lot of control over our lives. I don't know why people think the transition to green fuels will make that worse.

If the government wants to stop you traveling they can just cancel, seize or blacklist your passport. If they want to stop people driving they can just close the gas stations or announce rationing if fuel runs scarce. Set up police checkpoints everywhere like during the lockdowns... People will argue that "Oh you can store fuel at home though" - yes you can also have a generator/solar in your house that powers your electric car.

If the government wants to track you or stop you spending I guarantee right now almost every single person on this thread would be completely and utterly f*cked if the government froze their bank accounts.

Apple could remotely lock your phone if they wished to.

Your water, internet, trash, electrical providers could at any time stop serving you if instructed to.

It makes complete sense for an island nation like Ireland to ramp up renewables significantly so we don't have to pay ridiculous sums of money to fossil fuel energy providers when someone halfway across the world declares war and superpowers get into a pissing match.

Yeah the "Green agenda" sucks because its a massive transfer of wealth from taxpayers right back into the hands of the same rich people/special interests who profited from fossil fuels... they are just diversifying into renewables now. I'm not sure anyone on the thread could coherently argue that climate change isn't real. Just walk outside your house and observe the weather and the environment for the last year.

 

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[GPM]

The government already has a lot of control over our lives. I don't know why people think the transition to green fuels will make that worse.

If the government wants to stop you traveling they can just cancel, seize or blacklist your passport. If they want to stop people driving they can just close the gas stations or announce rationing if fuel runs scarce. Set up police checkpoints everywhere like during the lockdowns... People will argue that "Oh you can store fuel at home though" - yes you can also have a generator/solar in your house that powers your electric car.

If the government wants to track you or stop you spending I guarantee right now almost every single person on this thread would be completely and utterly f*cked if the government froze their bank accounts.

Apple could remotely lock your phone if they wished to.

Your water, internet, trash, electrical providers could at any time stop serving you if instructed to.

It makes complete sense for an island nation like Ireland to ramp up renewables significantly so we don't have to pay ridiculous sums of money to fossil fuel energy providers when someone halfway across the world declares war and superpowers get into a pissing match.

Yeah the "Green agenda" sucks because its a massive transfer of wealth from taxpayers right back into the hands of the same rich people/special interests who profited from fossil fuels... they are just diversifying into renewables now. I'm not sure anyone on the thread could coherently argue that climate change isn't real. Just walk outside your house and observe the weather and the environment for the last year.

Wow. So they can theoretically already do it. So let's just give them more power to make it all that much easier! Makes sense!

Let's just go back to kings and serf's while we are at it, and everyone can be told exactly what to do all the time.

 

[JordanK]

Not sure how you took that from my post?

It’s not more power or easier power… its literally the exact same situation. We are no better or no worse than we already are.

 

[BaiAnrui]

 

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[Xeon]

Now we will flatten the curve... sounds familiar?

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567462388898594816

View: https://mobile.twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1567462388898594816

Everytime I see this person, I ponder over how much effort / hrs she put into her hairstyle.

 

[Frank_95]

Don't worry, Canada said they will help out with windmills and green tech. Meanwhile we sit on more oil and gas than we possibly know what to do with....

I met a few German families who fled to mexico while I was down there. They were engineers and saw the writing on the wall and did not want their families to freeze to death once it all hit the fan. Looks like they were right, and they got out at a great time.

Yup, well off, educated Germans fleeing the homeland for Mexico. You can't make this stuff up.

"The West" is hell bent on Woking itself to death, quite literally.

Hello,

I´m from Germany and I can confirm that Food, Energy and Product Prices go heavy up in a scary short time laps (4 - 8 weeks). Nessesary things like toilet paper go up and a 100 Years old Toilett Paper Factoy goes brankrupt because they can`t afford their energy bill longer ...

Thanks Good that my family have a little farm and own forest

 

[heavy_industry]

Nessesary things like toilet paper go up and a 100 Years old Toilett Paper Factoy goes brankrupt because they can`t afford their energy bill longer ...

Remember people laughing at those that stock pilled toilet paper during the pandemic?

They were visionaries and now their investment pays off.

 

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[Trevor Kuntz]

It is interesting how every European government has been blamed here except Russia's, as if this whole situation just happened out of the blue; seems like there is a big fat elephant in the room that is being ignored.

While the consequences of this war are going to be catastrophic for some and damaging on the whole, we are not even close to the pain levels experienced by our ancestors of Europe's incessant intra-continental warfare. If they made it through, then I imagine that so shall their descendants. That said, poor economies and authoritarian tendencies do not make a great recipe for peace.

 

[MitchC]

The government already has a lot of control over our lives. I don't know why people think the transition to green fuels will make that worse.

If the government wants to stop you traveling they can just cancel, seize or blacklist your passport. If they want to stop people driving they can just close the gas stations or announce rationing if fuel runs scarce. Set up police checkpoints everywhere like during the lockdowns... People will argue that "Oh you can store fuel at home though" - yes you can also have a generator/solar in your house that powers your electric car.

If the government wants to track you or stop you spending I guarantee right now almost every single person on this thread would be completely and utterly f*cked if the government froze their bank accounts.

Apple could remotely lock your phone if they wished to.

Your water, internet, trash, electrical providers could at any time stop serving you if instructed to.

It makes complete sense for an island nation like Ireland to ramp up renewables significantly so we don't have to pay ridiculous sums of money to fossil fuel energy providers when someone halfway across the world declares war and superpowers get into a pissing match.

Yeah the "Green agenda" sucks because its a massive transfer of wealth from taxpayers right back into the hands of the same rich people/special interests who profited from fossil fuels... they are just diversifying into renewables now. I'm not sure anyone on the thread could coherently argue that climate change isn't real. Just walk outside your house and observe the weather and the environment for the last year.

The people need to accept these restrictions and whatever else they bring in.

The restrictions and everything else bought in during covid would never have been accepted under any other circumstances but scare people with covid and suddenly they’re begging for more of them.

Now you have the same, people terrified of the weather, begging governments to ban them from flying and eating steak. Begging governments to ban cheap energy.

 

[Johnny boy]

I'm not sure anyone on the thread could coherently argue that climate change isn't real. Just walk outside your house and observe the weather and the environment for the last year.

You're about to be very energy efficient this winter bud lol

 

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[heavy_industry]

I'm not sure anyone on the thread could coherently argue that climate change isn't real. Just walk outside your house and observe the weather and the environment for the last year.

Climate change is real, just like covid was real.

But the solutions proposed by the green activists are like the restrictions imposed during covid:

Pseudo-scientific garbage that doesn't work at all in solving or even mitigating the problem, and its sole purpose is to change the power dynamic of society and transfer money from the stupid and scared population to a small group of smart and psychopathic people.

 

[AceVentures]

The energy debate is as old as any political debate. The reason why we have a massive reliance on fossil fuels can be linked to power structures and over a century of F*ckery for the centralization of it.

Free energy means freedom in every possible way you can imagine. Energy centralization is necessary for any type of top down control. But that's just a briefer on why we're in this position today.

Now onto the climate change talk: the reality is that fossil fuels are nasty and ultimately not as energy dense as the energy released from nuclear and electrochemical reactions. Is the world going to end if we don't fully transition by 2030 or 2035 or whenever the WEF promises us the bug eating pod lifestyle? No.

Look at the pattern: climate crisis has been promised in the next decade, for half a century now. Fear is a powerful tool for control - and what better than the fear of something you have 0 control over? The climate. Drought and hurricanes. Even the ancients used droughts to instill crazy ideas like mass sacrifices. Because people are scared of it, and nobody knows it's patterns.

Chaos theory actually emerged from meteorology: any simulation of multivariate problems leads to paradoxical outcomes in that any one tiny change in any of the variables produces wildly different outcomes. This is the nature of partial differential equations - every variable depends on one another. This is why I look at the climate change scientists' projections 100 years into the future and laugh at their doomsday porn. I mean, look at the weather predictions: they can't even predict what happens TODAY, and you buy their fear of what happens 100 years from now?

The idea is to transition from the dirty and inefficient idea of burning an energy dense Fossil fuel and using the heat to produce energy. Keyword transition.

So, all the people that aspire for a more efficient and brighter future (myself included) go ahead and come up with creative solutions. But while you're at it, let's not cut the energy literally fueling your life AND your research for alternative sources. The world will not end in 10 years, so take as long as you need to crack the problem. Let's use all of our resources to get there, and not cripple ourselves back to the stone age while we try to come up with better answers.

We're on the path of innovation - energy sourcing and transmission is in THIS current stage of its evolution. It will change and we will find better answers to the mysteries of this universe. In the meantime, please do not shut the lights in my laboratory, cut access to the heat that keeps my family safe or cripple industries that provide all of the goods and services that allow for my quality of life and the quest for a more prosperous future.

 

[Mister]

I did a few minutes of research and here is what I found.

Even in such fields can CENTS be used. Then we have clearly no full control about our heating resources.

Let’s start with the fact that Europe want to be 2030 on a point where there don’t need Russian gas anymore (Press corner)

I looked at a few stats about our gas reserve and how long they can hold.

Which has the biggest gas reserves tanks ?
- Germany
(Gasspeicherkapazitäten - INES Initiative Energien Speichern)
(1Twh = 10.000.000.000 has m3)

Germany has the biggest Tank out of Europe with 4.000.000.000 m3

Total from Germany is 24.500.000.000 m3.
Which is 240 Twh.

They saying that the 240 Twh convers 28% of the yearly use in Germany.
(Erdgasspeicher – Wikipedia)

Something that seems a bit off is the fact that on German offiziell site they state „

• Es wird weiter eingespeichert. Der Gesamtspeicherstand in Deutschland liegt bei 86,84 %. Der Füllstand des Speichers Rehden beträgt 72,01 %.“

Which translated means that our total gas reserves are at 86,84% but the big tank is at 72,01%.

But wait the big one with 4.000.000.000 is only about 20% of the total of 24.600.000.000 ?

So why is Germany already at 80% when we should only be around ~16% ?



Funny

The numbers from wiki are from 2014 so guess they did some changes in that time.



From what I saw a big problem will be that people at home has will have a problem with gas for heating. Around 6.000.000 building ( I guess with 20million people in it) are heatet with gas in Germany.
In France it’s are 30% of all homes.

Energy is here only 15% based on gas.
When we put some nuklear plants on we can conver most loses from that or even more.

But switching from gas to power is a bit expensive, also each citizen need to pay it himself.

4 persons x 6 Million Buildings x 50€ (For a power based heater) = 12.000.000.000€

Perhaps I build content site in the power heater niche

Scary thing but I know my family is save for this winter. Also I don’t think there is much I can do about it.

 

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[Niptuck MD]

What the world has is a government problem, and people putting up with what said government forces upon us.

Hence why i am an anarchist. F*ck these useless vermin and idiotic leaders

 

[Happyheart]

I am appalled to see how many people in an entrepreneurship forum see "greenization" as a "hippie policy".

This is the exact SCRIPTED avoidance towards change.

It is our job to find green solutions to energy problems. Just like Elon Musk is trying to do (or sell).

Just because something is not pragmatical or convenient, does not mean it is true.

Climate change is real. Burning fossil fuels is really unsustainable (whether it is convenient to burn them or not)

So yes, shutting down fossil fuel plants was correct.

What was done to replace that gap was wrong in majority.

Our only carbon neutral alternatives are nuclear, hydro, wind, solar and geothermics.

Hydro is already utilized worldwide on a broad scale.

The only rapidly scalable of these is nuclear.

Most countries (including Germany) closed down most of these after the events of Fukushima.

Yet, Germany is able to build cutting-edge technology reactors with the ability to cool passively. (when you leave it on its own, the core cools down itself, eliminating the risk of a meltdown)

We have breeder reactors. (reactors that do not create waste, but uses the waste to make new fuel)

We could've easily sustained our energy needs with nuclear, and led the world to these new technologies. (just like we did with fossil burning technologies like internal combustion engine.

Instead of this, we have shut down all, made ourselves completely dependent on unscalable alternatives like wind and solar, and in the mean time to gas from Russia.

The result was that Germany has exported the nuclear power production to neighboring countries, who are tolerant of nuclear plants. (especially France) We are importing it now.

But try telling this to the average consumer. In Germany, we have 7-8 million people, who are illiterate. Yes, in Germany. In 2022.

There are tens of such problems, like the expansionist monetary policies, widening of EU etc. where a socialist hippie Jürgen/Sandra does not understand the global dynamics and tries to save the F*cking world with his/her limited brain capacity without finishing a degree even.

Germany is a very decadent group of socialist, entitled hippies, that have no understanding of the world in general whatsoever.

The problem in Germany is that it is too democratic. There is too little elitism.

Technocrats have too little authority.

And maybe in the whole Western world as well.

And I think that the current problem of the world is that we are at the end of democratic nation states. This is what will bring an end to the world order set at the end of WW1. (not the second)

As a non-German living in Germany, your tendency to totalitarianism scares me and at the same time strikes me as typically German.
Although I feel you are right in your opinion that too little evidence based decisions are being made, technocrats are not the solution. I am a scientist and meet a great many fellow scientists who use their intelligence to believe dumb things because they are fashionable. This, even in their own fields.

 

[RicardoGrande]

EU Economy Risks ‘Full Stop’ on Energy Crisis, Belgium Warns

Belgian Prime Minister Alexander De Croo warned that Europe needs to act immediately to address the energy crisis or risk the kind of fundamental economic shutdown that the bloc would struggle to recover from.

www.bloomberg.com

"We could be seeing the de-industrialization of europe over the next few months" - The Belgian prime minister

I've been getting a lot of flak over the past year both for warning that this exact thing could happen due to energy prices and that Europe will crumple like a kleenex tissue if the few industrial enterprises they do have have to shutter due to energy prices........... much like is already happening with aluminum and other metal smelters. However, if the Belgian prime minister says a "doomer" statement that is then ran in bloomberg, does that mean I really was a "tinfoil hat conspiracist and worrier"... or one of the few people who could look past the feelgood BS and see one of the biggest artificial disasters this century?

On the other hand, Germany is having a rocky few weeks as well. Seeing massive amounts of layoffs and insolvency in companies that have existed for at least 80 years... and this is only going to get worse unless their elected officials get their heads out of their @$$es and do something about energy prices beyond telling people to "just take cold showers bro".

 

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[originalMJT]

EU Economy Risks ‘Full Stop’ on Energy Crisis, Belgium Warns

Belgian Prime Minister Alexander De Croo warned that Europe needs to act immediately to address the energy crisis or risk the kind of fundamental economic shutdown that the bloc would struggle to recover from.

www.bloomberg.com

"We could be seeing the de-industrialization of europe over the next few months" - The Belgian prime minister

I've been getting a lot of flak over the past year both for warning that this exact thing could happen due to energy prices and that Europe will crumple like a kleenex tissue if the few industrial enterprises they do have have to shutter due to energy prices........... much like is already happening with aluminum and other metal smelters. However, if the Belgian prime minister says a "doomer" statement that is then ran in bloomberg, does that mean I really was a "tinfoil hat conspiracist and worrier"... or one of the few people who could look past the feelgood BS and see one of the biggest artificial disasters this century?

On the other hand, Germany is having a rocky few weeks as well. Seeing massive amounts of layoffs and insolvency in companies that have existed for at least 80 years... and this is only going to get worse unless their elected officials get their heads out of their @$$es and do something about energy prices beyond telling people to "just take cold showers bro".

The UK is spending £100 billion on paying gas/electrical bills for the next two years so we won’t be shutting anything down or turning the heating off. Great to be able to make your own choices. They should break up the EU fascist club. It was only started as a vehicle for selling German cars and French wine/cheese to Europe and to stop the world selling cheaper goods to the EU with their tariffs.

 

[RicardoGrande]

The UK is spending £100 billion on paying gas/electrical bills for the next two years so we won’t be shutting anything down or turning the heating off. Great to be able to make your own choices. They should break up the EU fascist club. It was only started as a vehicle for selling German cars and French wine/cheese to Europe and to stop the world selling cheaper goods to the EU with their tariffs.

Just to confirm, you think that government intervention and energy price caps will be a good thing in this scenario?

 

[originalMJT]

Just to confirm, you think that government intervention and energy price caps will be a good thing in this scenario?

We will have to pay the money back with taxes further down the line, the govenment is paying the gas/electrical suppilers. Yes intervention is a good thing. In two years we will have drilled more holes in the north see for oil and gas, and starting fraking gas again so we dont have to do this again. We wont be depended on buying gas/oil as we have our own. We only stopped because of the idiot greens

 

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[StrikingViper69]

The UK is spending £100 billion on paying gas/electrical bills for the next two years so we won’t be shutting anything down or turning the heating off. Great to be able to make your own choices. They should break up the EU fascist club. It was only started as a vehicle for selling German cars and French wine/cheese to Europe and to stop the world selling cheaper goods to the EU with their tariffs.

Government spending does not automatically mean the lights stay on. UK government spending doubled during the pandemic. This spending is an increase in government spending by an additional 10%.

 

[originalMJT]

Government spending does not automatically mean the lights stay on. UK government spending doubled during the pandemic. This spending is an increase in government spending by an additional 10%.

Here we go, a UK remainiac crawls out the wood work. The world gas is being sold to the highest bidder, the UK will be the highest bidder.

 

[GPM]

This is a man made issue, and the government won't solve it. Any action they take will compound issues.

The real solution if anyone were to ask me, which they won't, would be to let the market decide. If there is natural gas and nuclear competing for your dollars, the most efficient and inexpensive will win out and people will have plenty of power based on companies providing a need at the best value.

If thoreum reactors or like gen 4 nuclear or freaking space based solar that beams the energy to earth comes along and provides more power for less price, then that technology will take over and the people will have even more power. The government telling everyone "what needs to be done" won't work, other than making things worse.

They shut down nuclear and gas because they are dirty. Now shit is so expensive and people are going to freeze, people are literally going to be cutting up wood and anything they can find to burn. Yup, that sounds like a better and greener solution! Thanks for coming out guys.

 

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[MitchC]

 

[mr4ffe]

View attachment 45091View attachment 45092

If authorities ever did issue a fine to someone breaking a rule on heating, a judge could consider CHF30 reasonable, but a CHF3,000 fine would not be seen as proportionate to the crime, said Spörndli. As for jail time, while it is also theoretically possible under the NESA, a judge is not likely to consider that proportionate either.

If a restriction on heating homes ever came into effect, the spokesperson said the likely scenario is that most people would follow it, just as most people complied with measures like social-distancing or working from home at the height of the C0VlD-19 pandemic.

Fact check: will the Swiss be jailed for heating their homes above 19°C? - SWI swissinfo.ch

A rumour is circulating abroad that people in Switzerland will be fined – and even jailed – if they set their thermostat above 19°C.

www.swissinfo.ch