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Veganism / Plant-Based Diet

biggeemac

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I recently got my bloodwork back from my MD and was disappointed in the lack of details as to what I was deficient in. Is there a better route to getting your blood tested?
 
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ToniLene

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Eating sh!t = a nasty case of Ecoli.

Assuming that one is otherwise disease free, It's safe to say that if you generally feel lethargic and lacking mental clarity, it can typically be attributed to vitamin deficiencies and/or toxins.

I've found blood tests to be fairly accurate in my experience. Micronutrient testing is available and you can ask your physician for details on labs that offer it.
 

csalvato

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The crappy thing about most of the evidence for ANY diet is for any study you cite there are 10 more saying that study is wrong.

This is wholly untrue.

If you look at only epidemiological studies, this is true. If you look at studies examining first principals and basic science mechanisms, it's very obvious that veganism isn't only unhealthy but incredibly dangerous as a diet AND a way of life.

This is what I mean by that if you aren't willing to do the things I mentioned in my last post you have no authority to discuss diet or nutrition.

Look at basic A&P and read a book or two on how the bidy works (NOT just on a diet ideology) and your beliefs on veganism will quickly fall apart.
 

csalvato

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I recently got my bloodwork back from my MD and was disappointed in the lack of details as to what I was deficient in. Is there a better route to getting your blood tested?
There are but you need to order them yourself and pay out of pocket. For example you can pay 150-200 for gluten sensitivity test, or 100 for a vitamin D test, etc. best way is to google services or ask your local lab. Some niche nutrition advisors also offer this as a service with their lab partners
 
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Iwokeup

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Thas one of the biggest Problems. MD's need in there 6+ years training around 6h in the field of nutrition for passing it, yep only one day. The reason is, all the big facilities who make up the tests and training for the education are owned by the drug industry.
This is a completely RETARDED AND UNINFORMED comment. Just so you know...

And no, I am not 'owned' or 'owe' the pharmaceutical industry. But if it makes you feel better to attribute all of the ill of American Medicine to Big Pharma then by all means, go ahead.

Rather, the truth is more nuanced and complicated, like most things.
 

Mineralogic

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There are but you need to order them yourself and pay out of pocket. For example you can pay 150-200 for gluten sensitivity test, or 100 for a vitamin D test, etc. best way is to google services or ask your local lab. Some niche nutrition advisors also offer this as a service with their lab partners

lab corp, quest can do a lot

just remember to avoid Theranos right now. LOL
 
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JustinBoshans

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Look at basic A&P and read a book or two on how the bidy works (NOT just on a diet ideology) and your beliefs on veganism will quickly fall apart.

I actually do read A&P books. What specifically have you seen in your studies that has made veganism "fall apart"


You just lost all credibility. Smh

Have I? Do you honestly believe I want people to eat their own shit. I was merely pointing out that just because a caveman did it, doesn't mean we should do it. It's starting to become a logical fallacy similar to ad hitlerum, or saying that someone is acting like a nazi. Maybe we should call it ad cavemanum.
 

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just remember to avoid Theranos right now. LOL

Why is that? I've been doing extensive bloodwork over the past 5 years & just switched to Theranos earlier this year & they are AMAZING. I can order whatever the F*ck I want & it's cheap. as. hell. Just remember who's running the smear campaign against them (ie: people who stand to lose a LOT of money).

My test results have been consistent with everything previously tested by other labs. I'm going back in a few days to have a slew of tests run as I continue my climb towards better health. Theranos is amazing.
 

ToniLene

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lab corp, quest can do a lot

just remember to avoid Theranos right now. LOL

What's up with Theranos? That woman(the founder) is an inspiration.

Why is that? I've been doing extensive bloodwork over the past 5 years & just switched to Theranos earlier this year & they are AMAZING. I can order whatever the F*ck I want & it's cheap. as. hell. Just remember who's running the smear campaign against them (ie: people who stand to lose a LOT of money).

My test results have been consistent with everything previously tested by other labs. I'm going back in a few days to have a slew of tests run as I continue my climb towards better health. Theranos is amazing.


Theranos gets hassled for being "secretive" about their testing methods and lack of peer reviewed studies.The founder is very interesting. I caught her on CNBC a few weeks ago. I need whatever she's on, lol.
 
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csalvato

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I actually do read A&P books. What specifically have you seen in your studies that has made veganism "fall apart"




Have I? Do you honestly believe I want people to eat their own shit. I was merely pointing out that just because a caveman did it, doesn't mean we should do it. It's starting to become a logical fallacy similar to ad hitlerum, or saying that someone is acting like a nazi. Maybe we should call it ad cavemanum.
But "eating like cavemen" is not the reason I say to eat paleo.

As an aside, fecal transplants are a real thing...
 

Sheps

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There are these two girls with a cup who would beg to differ...

And don't anyone accuse me of thread drift, it started with being vegan, my comment is completely in line with that discussion.
 
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Mineralogic

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What's up with Theranos? That woman(the founder) is an inspiration.




Theranos gets hassled for being "secretive" about their testing methods and lack of peer reviewed studies.The founder is very interesting. I caught her on CNBC a few weeks ago. I need whatever she's on, lol.


It looks like a high level Pump and dump. Sorry
 

Red

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It looks like a high level Pump and dump. Sorry

Take another look.

Theranos isn't publicly traded. The founder started the company at age 19 and it's been a long road for her. Looks legit.

Her story is pretty inspirational. And her company (that's not public at this time, to my knowledge) is valued at something like $10B.
 
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Mineralogic

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Take another look.



Her story is pretty inspirational. And her company (that's not public at this time, to my knowledge) is valued at something like $10B.

Her story, her looks, her so called privste wealth....yes i know...media helped craft all of this several years ago to sell the story and help get fda approvals
 

csalvato

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media helped craft all of this several years ago to sell the story and help get fda approvals
That's not even possible. That's not how FDA approvals work. Have you ever been part of getting an FDA approval? Your status and connections are almost meaningless.
 

Red

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Yeah, sorry for the derailment, OP. Back to diet discussion.

Yay paleo!
 

Jonleehacker

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Maybe "diets" should be added to politics and religion as forbidden forum topics. Too personal and no one has ever influenced another, just everyone defending their own points of view. Kind of a waste of pixels and brain power.
 

The-J

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Maybe "diets" should be added to politics and religion as forbidden forum topics. Too personal and no one has ever influenced another, just everyone defending their own points of view. Kind of a waste of pixels and brain power.

My views on diet are very similar to my views on religion and politics, both of which are far too controversial for this forum and will make a lot of people mad. :)

Honestly guys, eat what you want. If you want to not eat meat due to moral/religious obligations, fine. If you want to give up bread and beans to eat like what you think a caveman eats like, fine. If you want to eat a McDonalds exclusive diet because it's tasty... knock yourself out. Hell, it doesn't even matter what your reasoning for eating a certain way is.

Just don't try to sell it to people and claim that it'll help fix their long-standing medical issues. To me, that's just as bad as proselytizing by telling people that praying to your God will cure their cancer. 99% of you guys aren't doctors, and the ones that ARE doctors are likely going to share the same view.

If it helps you get your vitamins, minerals, macros, and fiber while at the same time avoiding foods that don't settle well with you (gluten, dairy, etc) then that's your diet and it works for YOU. Leave it at that.
 
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SmoothFranko

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If you want people to convert give them some actual evidence besides a 50 minute youtube video and your personal opinion.
yeah gonn admit the longest i can commit to a youtube vid these days is around 8mins
 

csalvato

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Maybe "diets" should be added to politics and religion as forbidden forum topics. Too personal and no one has ever influenced another, just everyone defending their own points of view. Kind of a waste of pixels and brain power.
Personally the point of my posts was not to convince anyone of anything aside from the fact that they should do their research or keep their ignorance to themselves.

Diet and nutrition are approached like religious beliefs because people use the same heuristic logic to come to their conclusions. Faith and logical shortcuts over research and understanding.

If that means lumping diet together in the same category and making them off limits then fine... But that also fosters an environment where facts are meaningless.

After all we aren't talking about whether or not Black Lives Matter. We're talking about whether the cells in your body need animal sourced b12. One is based on opinions and ideologies ... The other is based on cell biology and concrete proven cellular processes and mechanisms.

Would you want to be in a community that ignores facts and sticks to only "feel good" threads? If you don't like nutrition, maybe you should just avoid the threads on that topic?
 

csalvato

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99% of you guys aren't doctors, and the ones that ARE doctors are likely going to share the same view.
Doctors are the only ones qualified to discuss matters relating to the body?
 
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mayana

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Have I? Do you honestly believe I want people to eat their own shit. I was merely pointing out that just because a caveman did it, doesn't mean we should do it. It's starting to become a logical fallacy similar to ad hitlerum, or saying that someone is acting like a nazi. Maybe we should call it ad cavemanum.

Sorry, I just had to jump in here at this comment lol.

There is a whole long thread on the forum about paleo, and several others that mention it, so we don't need to get into a long discussion about it... BUT...

Anyone who has bothered to research the Paleo "diet" or "lifestyle" at all knows that doing something "just because a caveman did it" has absolutely nothing to do with the foundations of the theory behind it. Like nothing at all to do with it.

Just wanted to leave that there. Carry on. Interesting discussion overall.
 

Jonleehacker

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After all we aren't talking about whether or not Black Lives Matter. We're talking about whether the cells in your body need animal sourced b12. One is based on opinions and ideologies ... The other is based on cell biology and concrete proven cellular processes and mechanisms.

But the thing is, just like religion, you're never going to prove that "the cells in your body need animal sourced b12" no one is ever going to scientifically prove anything like this, because I'll always be able to drag in a vegan 80 year old 3 hour marathon runner who will invalidate your "proof" (given that good science doesn't have exceptions- for example apples don't sometimes fly up into the air - so the law of gravity remains scientifically proven.).

Diets, like religion and politics are not, and never going to be, one size fits all. Our bodies are massively influenced by the way we think, our genetics and our environments. They aren't machines that have simple feeding codes that we just haven't unlocked yet.
 
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csalvato

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But the thing is, just like religion, you're never going to prove that "the cells in your body need animal sourced b12" no one is ever going to scientifically prove anything like this, because I'll always be able to drag in a vegan 80 year old 3 hour marathon runner who will invalidate your "proof" (given that good science doesn't have exceptions- for example apples don't sometimes fly up into the air - so the law of gravity remains scientifically proven.).

That's not true. The mechanisms that show that vitamin B12 are necessary are documented extremely well. Vegans are quite literally walking around sick from various vitamin deficiencies, whether or not they run marathons and appear healthy.

That's the problem. Anecdotal evidence like pulling out an 80 year old marathon running vegan is NOT robust evidence. Controlled experiments in cell biology are.
 

Jonleehacker

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Vegans are quite literally walking around sick from various vitamin deficiencies

That's not anything that you can prove. Maybe "some vegans" are sick, but so are "a lot" of non-vegans... the only thing being proven by your points is the pointlessness of the discussion.
 

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