Vegan / Vegetarians Only (Chat about lifestyle, opportunities, food, whatever...)

[Aidan04]

Yup, just like everyone wholly believes the "get a job, save, invest, and in 50 years you'll be rich" scheme, and without question within the echo chamber.

And escaping these dogmatic paradigms are both equally challenging to execute, I'd argue, this lifestyle is the hardest thing one can do in life as carnism is all encompassing and all consuming.

I'm just glad I'm aware now. @Spenny opened my eyes. I'm starting to wonder what else they're shoving down our throats.

There should honestly be a forum thread where we list every SCRIPT dogma we can find.

One thing that I can think of is energy. Nuclear power is the most efficient and environmentally friendly way to make energy on a large scale, but instead, we're investing so much into solar panels and wind farms that will eventually just end up in landfills.

We should be upgrading our infrastructure and vehicles to hydrogen fuel cells, but instead, we want to use batteries for everything. To make those, you have to dig up tons of lithium, harming the environment even more. Plus, recharging is incovenient.

 

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[Matt Sun]

I'm just glad I'm aware now. @Spenny opened my eyes. I'm starting to wonder what else they're shoving down our throats.

There should honestly be a forum thread where we list every SCRIPT dogma we can find.

One thing that I can think of is energy. Nuclear power is the most efficient and environmentally friendly way to make energy on a large scale, but instead, we're investing so much into solar panels and wind farms that will eventually just end up in landfills.

We should be upgrading our infrastructure and vehicles to hydrogen fuel cells, but instead, we want to use batteries for everything. To make those, you have to dig up tons of lithium, harming the environment even more. Plus, recharging is incovenient.

I don't want to derail the thread but for me a huge script is traditional syntetic medicines vs oxygen therapies ... Well MJ does hyperbaric chamber sessions. I drink water with a certain gas that elevates my blood oxygen levels and works pretty much the same but its much more convenient I think.

It's funny on an airplane if it gets depresurised they say if you are wearing a face mask to first remove it before puting on the plane's oxygen mask... weren't we able to breath just fine with face masks ? Not according to aerials companies at least... Now if increasing oxygen saturation is good for health (proven by the hyperbaric chamber) what does decreasing blood oxygen saturation on a worldwide population scale do ? hmmm

 

[S.Y.]

B12 is a must for all humans.

Animals get their B12 mostly through supplementation. Bypass the middleman.

BTW, I take vegan pre-workout supplements which contain B12 so I tend to get it as they are complementary to my workouts. My last B12 measurement was borderline HIGH, not LOW.

I meant that B12 supplementation is needed, or at least suggested. The protein shake I currently take is plant-based but has a low B12 profile. I will look into alternatives.

Read any fitness or longevity book and you'll have a list of 50-100 "must-do" things to stay in shape, from a specific duration of each workout and specific, often exotic exercises through twenty recovery protocols to a specific amount of protein broken down into specific amounts for each amino acid and of course a long list of supplements and expensive treatments only available in a single clinic in the US.

It's crazy that MJ is in such shape considering that he's not doing 90% of the things all the gurus claim to be indispensable for good health.

Many of the "must do" are too complicated, I agree. I was more perplexed that you found it crazy. I have in you in my mind as those people that already knew it

I am having a moment of cognitive dissonance. I have mainly adhered to simple rules:
- Eat mostly plant-based (until recently when I upped my protein intake but with meat)
- The "bad" stuff in moderation
- Stay hydrated
- Movement and mobility over exercise
- Cardio for longevity, weight or bodyweight for strength

And now, am having a moment. Is meat really required? My brain is going through a conflict.

Last week, I have been back to mainly plant-based while being a bit more mindful of proteins. I run a decent amount on top of weight training. And I have to be careful about that aspect:
- I have been feeling lighter.
- My sleep (both from the Oura ring and Garmin) is better
- no change in performance
- Less need for caffeine - which has been interesting.

I have been doing other health experiments and can't clearly conclude what should be attributed to the plant-based way of eating.

But I have been hungrier (is it normal? I don't know), and boy, I need to up my spice game. Will keep going for another two weeks to see how I feel.

 

[Spenny]

We are about a week in and my head feels clear. I feel focused and driven.

I feel much more lean, inflammation and water retention was definitely going on. My muscle tone looks 20X better.

+1

It's not so much I feel clearer, but I have far less ups and downs of food.

I went to a Somali food restaurant with friends. The dishes are communal, you eat I'm with your hands but my goodness you'd not want to eat it daily. Here's a pic of what I mean

Legs of animals, lots of rice, veg etc.

What I found very interesting is the change of mood as people ate. It went from a vibrant atmosphere to one that felt dull. I even had a friend say their joints feel stiff after the meal. He's 24.

Even when I have my evening meals, I still feel energised. I used to often eat a meal of meat, then slog around for a couple hours.

One week of experiencing plant based:

• Skin glowing
• Food mood swings are gone.
• Less acne/bacne.
• Better mood.
• A few arguments.
• Farting too much (I haven't lost friends yet)
• Being told I need a varied diet & I can't get all of my nutrients. Also heard that too much fiber rips the stomach.

Also, I went to chipotle last night and they have this amazing tofu option for burritos called "sofritas". It tastes exactly like chicken and has the same protein.

After the Somali place, I went to a plant based Caribbean restraunts - it's amazing what you can find, another world opens up.

As a side note, I have friends who are boycotting companies supporting genocide & exploitation, but they're fine eating meat. I'll never understand how people do that.

 

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[Nazca]

And now, am having a moment. Is meat really required? My brain is going through a conflict.

I'm having a meat-free diet since Nov 2019 - I'm the finest than ever.

Meat is not required. I recently decreased egg and cheese consumption and it also makes a real difference. (Feeling lighter in general).

When I'm sick, instead of taking medicinals recommanded by the doctors, I take hot water with curcumin pouder: it contains high anti-sceptic properties. If not taking that, I'm taking hot water with sage. I feel it really boosts immune system. I'm less often sick, and when I am, I have much more energy and I recover faster.

 

[MTF]

I just don't get how you guys see any differences, let alone such huge differences after a week. Your diet before either had to be utter shit or it's placebo.

I've never seen any difference. But maybe that's because I was vegetarian since I was 17 and then switched to vegan at 31 so at this point I've actually lived longer meat-free than as a meat-eater.

I saw zero differences when I switched to vegetarian at 17 (as far as I remember) and zero differences when I switched to vegan at 31 (other than actually feeling worse, primarily digestive-wise, and I find it's way easier to gain weight as a vegan).

But I don't do veganism for health reasons but ethics. Either way, I'm really confused how you're guys noticing all these ridiculous changes and can't help thinking it has to be placebo.

Refer me to your dealer. I'd like to buy the same good stuff.

(this is all half-joking but I really am confused)

 

[Spenny]

I don't get how you guys see any differences, let alone such huge differences, after a week. Your diet before either had to be utter shit, or it's a placebo.

I understand; I'm sure part of it is a placebo. Another part is going from eating meat for every meal to eating none. I've always been a meat eater, and in the past few weeks, I've gone from consuming 2kg of chicken thighs, 4 pints of milk, a couple of cans of tuna and lots of cheese to none of that. Think of how much crap is in that. I have seen noticeable differences, and my friends have too.


Also, perhaps my feeling better generally is because I know I don't need to kill things to live. I've also been drinking more water so that helps with the skin.

And besides, a placebo is still a form of treatment/results we want. Many drugs rely on a placebo, but who cares as long as it works and give an effective result.

 

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[Aidan04]

I just don't get how you guys see any differences, let alone such huge differences after a week. Your diet before either had to be utter shit or it's placebo.

I've never seen any difference. But maybe that's because I was vegetarian since I was 17 and then switched to vegan at 31 so at this point I've actually lived longer meat-free than as a meat-eater.

I saw zero differences when I switched to vegetarian at 17 (as far as I remember) and zero differences when I switched to vegan at 31 (other than actually feeling worse, primarily digestive-wise, and I find it's way easier to gain weight as a vegan).

But I don't do veganism for health reasons but ethics. Either way, I'm really confused how you're guys noticing all these ridiculous changes and can't help thinking it has to be placebo.

Refer me to your dealer. I'd like to buy the same good stuff.

(this is all half-joking but I really am confused)

Partly yes, it is somewhat a placebo, but as Spenny said I used to eat meat with every meal and drink milk all the time, so this is a drastic shift.

The mental effects aren't extremely strong yet, but my digestive system and circulatory system are very happy.

It's also about your genetics. Some people react to this differently. Weirdly, some people (especially those with Nordic genetics as Vikings ate meat extensively) thrive on meat instead of plants.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

Your diet before either had to be utter shit

I don't think you understand how poor most people's diets are; they eat crap every single meal 3-4X a day and it is meat/cheese centric. It's not like a good Paleo meal either where it's mostly vegetables and maybe one tiny piece of salmon.

Another way of looking at it is if they started juicing and eliminated all food.

They still would feel better.

In the beginning, it's more about what was REMOVED over what was ADDED.

If you ate an inflammatory food item every single meal of your life, and it was the main course, and then eliminated it, you'd likely feel better.

Not sure why this is shocking to you.

 

[MTF]

I don't think you understand how poor most people's diets are; they eat crap every single meal 3-4X a day and it is meat/cheese centric. It's not like a good Paleo meal either where it's mostly vegetables and maybe one tiny piece of salmon.

Another way of looking at it is if they started juicing and eliminated all food.

They still would feel better.

In the beginning, it's more about what was REMOVED over what was ADDED.

If you ate an inflammatory food item every single meal of your life, and it was the main course, and then eliminated it, you'd likely feel better.

Not sure why this is shocking to you.

I may live in a bubble or maybe Europe is that different but I don't know of any people who eat crap 3-4x a day. Even meat-eating friends don't eat it exclusively. The closest to that is probably my mom whose diet is mostly dairy with some grains. But even she still eats vegetables and fruits daily.

America is truly another world, lol.

 

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[Spenny]

America is indeed another world, lol.

US is similar to the UK, plus we have a drinking culture where it's strange if you don't engage with it unless you've got great friends.

 

[MakeItHappen]

I just don't get how you guys see any differences, let alone such huge differences after a week. Your diet before either had to be utter shit or it's placebo.

I've never seen any difference. But maybe that's because I was vegetarian since I was 17 and then switched to vegan at 31 so at this point I've actually lived longer meat-free than as a meat-eater.

I saw zero differences when I switched to vegetarian at 17 (as far as I remember) and zero differences when I switched to vegan at 31 (other than actually feeling worse, primarily digestive-wise, and I find it's way easier to gain weight as a vegan).

But I don't do veganism for health reasons but ethics. Either way, I'm really confused how you're guys noticing all these ridiculous changes and can't help thinking it has to be placebo.

Refer me to your dealer. I'd like to buy the same good stuff.

(this is all half-joking but I really am confused)

For me, it was similar to you. But that might be because I was still young when I made the transition. Also, I went vegetarian first for like 2 years I think. As I might the choice because of morale reasons I wasn't eating all that healthy as well (lots of proceed foods). That being said I am not the only one who became a vegan. Most of my family are now and the older ones are healthy as F*ck. Like over 90 years old and still needing no daily pills from the doc kind of healthy, while I know enough people around me who are getting diabetes, high blood pressure, etc. in their fifties.

 

[Timmy C]

I just don't get how you guys see any differences, let alone such huge differences after a week. Your diet before either had to be utter shit or it's placebo.

I've never seen any difference. But maybe that's because I was vegetarian since I was 17 and then switched to vegan at 31 so at this point I've actually lived longer meat-free than as a meat-eater.

I saw zero differences when I switched to vegetarian at 17 (as far as I remember) and zero differences when I switched to vegan at 31 (other than actually feeling worse, primarily digestive-wise, and I find it's way easier to gain weight as a vegan).

But I don't do veganism for health reasons but ethics. Either way, I'm really confused how you're guys noticing all these ridiculous changes and can't help thinking it has to be placebo.

Refer me to your dealer. I'd like to buy the same good stuff.

(this is all half-joking but I really am confused)

Yeh I know right, a week isn't that long.

I am not entirely sure its all due just to the diet. But I'm taking it haha.

I used to drink alot of dairy, and maybe I was lactose intolerant without realising it? I had a coffee latte every morning with one teaspoon of brown sugar prior to changing. Sugar is now completely cut out from my diet, well, minimised. I don't add it at all, unless it's natural like in fruits.

For breakfast I used to have even more dairy. I had weat bix with blueberries and strawberries with a scoop of whey protein mixed in. I didn't add any sugar here apart from the berries.

So that's already alot of dairy to start the day.

 

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[S.Y.]

I just don't get how you guys see any differences, let alone such huge differences after a week. Your diet before either had to be utter shit or it's placebo.

I've never seen any difference. But maybe that's because I was vegetarian since I was 17 and then switched to vegan at 31 so at this point I've actually lived longer meat-free than as a meat-eater.

I saw zero differences when I switched to vegetarian at 17 (as far as I remember) and zero differences when I switched to vegan at 31 (other than actually feeling worse, primarily digestive-wise, and I find it's way easier to gain weight as a vegan).

But I don't do veganism for health reasons but ethics. Either way, I'm really confused how you're guys noticing all these ridiculous changes and can't help thinking it has to be placebo.

Refer me to your dealer. I'd like to buy the same good stuff.

(this is all half-joking but I really am confused)

Not surprising to me at all.

I have that Indian place I love. Whenever I go there, I know I will be lethargic after the fact - regardless of how I ate before. I remember you saying that you can eat and eat and eat and keep going. Man, I don't understand how. I just can't.

Whenever I do long fasts, my energy levels drop 36 hours in. A few hours later, once it passes, I am on cruise control until 55ish. If I don't take salt by then, I will not feel good. If I get some, I am fine. I think my longest is 80ish and I stopped out of boredom.

Maybe it is a placebo. I find a week more than enough.

Which makes me curious about trying a CGM. But Canada man... Canada...

 

[Timmy C]

I will still be eating eggs, for now I reckon. I found this local farmer who sells them, and it's ACTUALLY free range.

I can see them frollicking around on the property and they appear to be very healthy.

It's also cheaper than the supermarket trash!

 

[MTF]

I will still be eating eggs, for now I reckon. I found this local farmer who sells them, and it's ACTUALLY free range.

I can see them frollicking around on the property and they appear to be very healthy.

It's also cheaper than the supermarket trash!


View attachment 54330

The reality of even these "happy" free range backyard eggs is very different from what you see.

Is It Okay For Vegans To Eat Eggs From Backyard Chickens?

In this post, we break down the delicate topic of the ethics behind consuming backyard eggs. Where do we draw the line between an exchange and exploitation?

theminimalistvegan.com

 

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[MTF]

I remember you saying that you can eat and eat and eat and keep going. Man, I don't understand how. I just can't.

I would love to be like that. I know a lot of skinny guys hate it but I'd take skinny over fat every single time. Skinny can still look fine. Fat looks terrible always.

It sucks to have to control yourself every single day or you'll gain weight but that's my life now.

Whenever I do long fasts, my energy levels drop 36 hours in. A few hours later, once it passes, I am on cruise control until 55ish. If I don't take salt by then, I will not feel good. If I get some, I am fine. I think my longest is 80ish and I stopped out of boredom.

If I don't eat, I don't eat. The longest fast I did was over 90 hours.

But if I eat, and if my appetite levels are f*cked up (as they often are) then I can eat until I'm in slight discomfort or pain. Then I can wait 30-60 minutes and do it again. Wake up with digestive issues the next day and do it all over again. The way I describe it I guess I should seek professional help.

 

[Brookzo]

The reality of even these "happy" free range backyard eggs is very different from what you see.

Is It Okay For Vegans To Eat Eggs From Backyard Chickens?

In this post, we break down the delicate topic of the ethics behind consuming backyard eggs. Where do we draw the line between an exchange and exploitation?

theminimalistvegan.com

Interesting read. Modern hens are def a product of selection with how many eggs they lay...

 

[theNeverMore]

I'm just glad I'm aware now. @Spenny opened my eyes. I'm starting to wonder what else they're shoving down our throats.

There should honestly be a forum thread where we list every SCRIPT dogma we can find.

One thing that I can think of is energy. Nuclear power is the most efficient and environmentally friendly way to make energy on a large scale, but instead, we're investing so much into solar panels and wind farms that will eventually just end up in landfills.

We should be upgrading our infrastructure and vehicles to hydrogen fuel cells, but instead, we want to use batteries for everything. To make those, you have to dig up tons of lithium, harming the environment even more. Plus, recharging is incovenient.

Sooo many dogmas... it's wild. Here's a list of mine in the last 5 years:
- you don't need meat to survive
- barefoot shoes are better than padded shoes
- you can run with barefoot shoes
- shampoo sucks. You don't need it
- Saving for 40 years is not a plan (thanks MJ)
- modern medicine has less clue about diseases than we imagine.
- Agree about Nuclear Power. The problem is no one wants one in their backyard
- popping pills every day is not normal

Can't remember anymore

 

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[Spenny]

A bit of garbage entertainment I was watching, there was a mention of environmentalism, and 'wanting to continue eating meat' near the end of this table conversation. I couldn't believe my ears when I heard it.

This video format with the Wojak character is standard in GenZ/Millennial backgrounds.

View: https://youtu.be/nZcHmGqTIsE&t=22


I don't tend to go into environmental aspects of veganism, because people like to get away from the fact that beings are still suffering & health is still deteriorating, but it's interesting to see how veganism/vegetarianism is permeating.

 

[Jon822]

I will still be eating eggs, for now I reckon. I found this local farmer who sells them, and it's ACTUALLY free range.

I can see them frollicking around on the property and they appear to be very healthy.

It's also cheaper than the supermarket trash!


View attachment 54330

Even if the chickens are happy, eggs are garbage for your health.

 

[KJFast]

Hey guys, seen stuff lately about people going vegan and their teeth rotting or something about vegans having teeth problems.

I’m plant based, so just wondering what foods exactly we need to not have this happen? Or is it bs?

 

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[Timmy C]

Hey guys, seen stuff lately about people going vegan and their teeth rotting or something about vegans having teeth problems.

I’m plant based, so just wondering what foods exactly we need to not have this happen? Or is it bs?

LOL.

That's BS man.

 

[Timmy C]

I have had cravings for meat this week. I made up meat lasagna for the family for my Mother's birthday, whilst I had my vegetable curry topped with hummous.

I thought about eating it, it looked good haha.

I was triggered a few times, but nothing too bad. I just ate junk food instead.

Unable to go full vegan as yet as I'm still eating eggs occasionally and some other things, but I see it as a process.

I will learn new recipes, new things to make etc.

I've been vegetarian for weeks now, maybe a month, and for now I'll stick to that.

As long as I avoid meat that's the main thing for now.

Health is better, I'm happy.

 

[Brookzo]

Hey guys, seen stuff lately about people going vegan and their teeth rotting or something about vegans having teeth problems.

I’m plant based, so just wondering what foods exactly we need to not have this happen? Or is it bs?

That might be some rare case, as long as you have somewhat balanced plant diet you'll be more than fine. Soy alone is really rich on calcium if you were to worry about that

 

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[Subsonic]

I've been vegetarian for a few weeks now thanks to @Spenny and things are looking good.

I discovered the beauty of onions, salad and properly seasoning food.
Gym is coming along nicely as well.

Most importantly though, the moral aspect. It feels just more right to not eat meat.

Sometimes my lizzard brain craves toast with bacon but that's something I can deal with.

 

[Spenny]

Sometimes my lizzard brain craves toast with bacon but that's something I can deal with.

You can begin weening yourself off this feeling with fake meat substitutes. I've been doing this, and I'm experiencing nearly no difficulties with this feeling. Many replacements are surprisingly good & have somewhat equivalent protein amounts.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

You can begin weening yourself off this feeling with fake meat substitutes.

I never liked Tofu but it turns out, I (and my wife) really wasn't cooking it right.

The key is spices which can turn it into any "meat like" taste you want.

It has done wonders for me and is a good source of protein.

If you curate your IG or TikTok feed for vegan recipes you would fall over at some of the great stuff you can make; my wife and I have found countless dishes that involve tofu and various forms of mushrooms.

Most importantly though, the moral aspect. It feels just more right to not eat meat.

Going vegan was the best thing I ever done for my spiritual life as it brings forth a profound respect for life, even with things you wouldn't eat like spiders, but it also might raise your anxiety levels as you deal with a culture that insists on being selectively blind and incompassionate...

"Don't run over that cute little cow!" followed by eating a hamburger at the dinner table.

6 years later, I still struggle with this aspect.

I made up meat lasagna

I try to keep my fake meat consumption down to 1 serving per week.

Could be Impossible burger, faux chicken nuggets (many brands have mastered chix nuggests) or fake ground beef in a pasta dish, like lasagna.

There are a ton of tasty fake ground beef substitutes that work well in spaghetti and other dishes. Impossible ground beef is the best for this purpose, not sure if they sell those in AU.

These work magic when you need to satisfy a craving.

I will emphasize craving; as you know, processed "anything" isn't going to be very good for you.

 

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[MTF]

I never liked Tofu but it turns out, I (and my wife) really wasn't cooking it right.

The key is spices which can turn it into any "meat like" taste you want.

It has done wonders for me and is a good source of protein.

Try smoky tempeh and your life will never be the same. Tempeh is both healthier and tastes way, way better than tofu.

Just make sure it's fermented soy and some spices, without any extra additives.

I had meat eaters try it and everyone loved it and said it tastes like bacon.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

smoky tempeh

Yes this is good too, however, regular tempeh makes me want to gag. So there's a fine line there for me.