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OFF-TOPIC Thoughts - The Social Dilemma [Netflix Documentary]

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Your thoughts about social media abuse?

  • The government needs to regulate these businesses

    Votes: 7 31.8%
  • There is nothing to worry about

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Something needs to be done but without government regulation

    Votes: 12 54.5%
  • Nothing should be done but all this information is concerning

    Votes: 3 13.6%

  • Total voters
    22

VicFountain

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Is this even something new?
People have been saying this since 2015 lol

Now that Netflix released a movie/tv series on it people start believing it, just because Netflix is a figure of "authority", but this is some shit you could have found on YouTube a long time ago.

Instead of watching videos or documentaries, buy yourself a book on psychological operant and classical conditioning and you're set for life. If you don't understand why social media is addictive, you probably don't realize even this forum or any other form of social medium is using the same methods and techniques to hit on the brain.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39RS3XbT2pU
 

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Kevin88660

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The only thing I am very concerned is monopolistic power that the giants can have over small businesses.

Just one day suddenly they ban you and you cannot get in touch with the fans you build over a few years.

It reminds me of the industrial oligarchs in the 19th century in U.S.

Economics of scale leads to monopolies growing. Railway industry. Oil refinery and exploration. Social media is kind of like that. Concentration of markets into smaller players.

There are industries that hard to monopolize. Smart phone is one example. No body has more than 40 percent market share.
 

drahz

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One thing they touch on in the doc is the rise in teen suicide that coincides with the introduction of social media.

I saw the movie and I agree with some things there, but this is just another random correlation. The same as the correlation between saturated fat and heart disease (although there were at least some studies).

I am not an advocate for social media, but people were glued in front of the TV before, then a computer, then a smartphone. Now everybody can be a superstar with thousands of followers.

The only thing which concerns me is that the control over the platform and thus billions of people are in the hands of few.
 

AidenRafi

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The only thing I am very concerned is monopolistic power that the giants can have over small businesses.

Just one day suddenly they ban you and you cannot get in touch with the fans you build over a few years.

It reminds me of the industrial oligarchs in the 19th century in U.S.

Economics of scale leads to monopolies growing. Railway industry. Oil refinery and exploration. Social media is kind of like that. Concentration of markets into smaller players.

There are industries that hard to monopolize. Smart phone is one example. No body has more than 40 percent market share.


Another factor is network effects, if all your friends are posting on youtube then you will sign up too.

Each new youtube user becomes a potential content creator, thus creating more value.

I was reading an interesting concept the other day. It states that monopolies created based on unique value are actually desired in the long term by all players in a market.

When there is even competition, there is a pricing war, which changes the game from innovation to price.

In a pricing war, everyone is the loser. And there is not enough net revenue to innovate.

Peter Theil gives an example of the airline industry vs Google.
 

mon_fi

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you probably don't realize even this forum or any other form of social medium is using the same methods and techniques to hit on the brain.

Very true

I put the theory into practice a while ago and deleted all social media.

SM is a bit like cigarettes: addictive enough to make you buy some, but not to the point of forbidding it altogether. And just like smoking, consuming or not is YOUR OWN responsibility.

What I am sad about is that while there is plenty of prevention for cigarettes, there is none for social media, and that is not fair. Everyone knows smoking is bad, not everyone is aware how bad SM are.
 

Kid

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It struck a chord with FB, since they posted official response to this title.
 

Andy Black

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I get that and actually like a lot of one-liners, too. But you'd have to wash a lot of sand to find gold on Twitter.
I think it’s more a case of who you follow. I like Justin Jackson’s stuff for instance. I think it’s like all these platforms in that we have to train our feed with Likes (and unfollows!).
 

Dark Water

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Good movie that should get the basic concepts across to a much larger audience, which is a good thing.

Digital Minimalism is something every person needs to learn (there's a great book by the same name by Cal Newport) but especially those striving for more.

My own thoughts are that at the surface level, you have basic internet surfing, latest news, upvotes, email, etc. At the next level, you have more social interaction that are things like Snapchat, Facebook, LinkedIn etc. And where the movie didn't cover, the third level, is the most addictive of them all and I've seen here from time to time here on the forum: gaming. Loot boxes, highly complex mechanisms to keep you addicted and playing more, and countless parallels to gambling. This is the most dangerous form of what one might call dopamine exploitation.

Set out to use the internet like a tool, be productive, have productive conversations, block useless websites, etc.

Here's a few things I do off the top of my head:

- Not subscribed to a single email list, if something comes in I immediately unsubscribe
- No notifications for any apps at all
- Have an adblocker, YouTube adblocker, and a website blocker
- No games
- I disable as much tracking info that I can, from apps to my own PC to Google. These actively track and build a history of every single thing you do unless you explicitly turn them off, please do
- Clear my cookies (but save my passwords and logins) from my browser once or twice a day (stop tracking me with targeted advertising)
- I keep my digital life as organized as a made bed; empty email inbox, no extra files on my PC, closed out conversations when I'm done, saying "no" to people, jobs, or conversations when needed
- I don't use social media. I have Facebook to manage a few pages, with less than 10 connections (2 best friends who added me and the rest are family who added me). I have a LinkedIn which I check once a month
- Avoid Reddit (this deserves its own point)
 

PizzaOnTheRoof

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Is this even something new?
People have been saying this since 2015 lol

Now that Netflix released a movie/tv series on it people start believing it, just because Netflix is a figure of "authority", but this is some shit you could have found on YouTube a long time ago.

Instead of watching videos or documentaries, buy yourself a book on psychological operant and classical conditioning and you're set for life. If you don't understand why social media is addictive, you probably don't realize even this forum or any other form of social medium is using the same methods and techniques to hit on the brain.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39RS3XbT2pU
I don’t think forums got your brain the same way as social media.

This forum (and even Reddit) are still organically driven. I’m sure MJ would confirm that there is no AI on the backend feeding people threads they want to see.
 

VicFountain

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I don’t think forums got your brain the same way as social media.

This forum (and even Reddit) are still organically driven. I’m sure MJ would confirm that there is no AI on the backend feeding people threads they want to see.
Of course it's nearly as powerful as mediums like Instagram.

In general, the raise in dopamine happens mostly due to notifications (those red circles with the number indicating the new notifications) and messages. That hits your brain like a monkey.

Another thing is novelty seeking behavior. "I wonder what's new.".
Fear of missing out.

Even another one is systems simulating social tribes and hierarchy ranking (followers, likes, and all that bullshit).
 

MJ DeMarco

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I've merged the two threads, unfortunately, the poll was lost. Does anyone know what the options were?
 

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Gabbe18

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I've merged the two threads, unfortunately, the poll was lost. Does anyone know what the options were?
I unfortunately don't remember the exact words of the options but they were along the lines of:
- The government needs to regulate these businesses
- Something needs to be done but without government regulation
- Nothing should be done but all this information is concerning
- There is nothing to worry about

I hope this helps! :)
 

MJ DeMarco

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Thanks, poll added.

I finally finished this and I must say, I was disappointed.

I thought they would go deep into the psychological impacts of this as it pertains to young kids -- how it is creating depression, short attention spans, and addictions to instant gratification. I have first-hand experience with this with a young adult in my life in my family. The little girl taking selfies of duck faces (as demonstrated in The Social Dilemma) is exactly the kind of "disease" I'm talking about, and yes, it is a disease.

Instead, the series seemed to want to say that social media was responsible for fake news -- of course, the type of "news" that hasn't been preselected, preapproved and disseminated by our corporate media overlords ... which Netflix is one.
 

Dark Water

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I don’t think forums got your brain the same way as social media.

This forum (and even Reddit) are still organically driven. I’m sure MJ would confirm that there is no AI on the backend feeding people threads they want to see.

I think in many instances they (forums) are worse. Take Reddit for example: endless clickbait news articles congregated in one place, hivemind culture driving hyperrealities, anonymous interaction, "gotcha" culture of endless arguing, and people being socially conditioned to fit in and post what will earn upvotes, not necessarily what is correct. It's pseudo-intellectualism on steroids based on what sounds good or what fits in with a particular subreddit's culture, not what is necessarily true or false.

Compare that to Facebook, where if you have a couple hundred friends, you might see a few new posts per day... if that, because barely anyone uses it anymore. Well, if you're older that is - while the adults are being conditioned to operate on smaller forums, Reddit, whatever, the next generation of children are now becoming the product for Facebook, TikTok, Snapchat, etc.

Organically driven doesn't necessarily mean any more or less addictive than AI-driven. What drives addiction are the dopamine hits and the intermittent, random reward feedback: the latest new post in your feed, the likes you receive, and the back and forth social conversation (like this one). Is your post going to be good enough to get a like from one of the recognized forum names like Andy or Vigilante, or even MJ himself? Is it going to get a gold thread status? What's your ratio of messages to likes? Are you a Bronze Contributor or a Legendary Contributor? These things all play into organically-driven feedback loops. With that said, I'm not saying it's a bad thing, since for example it drives people to post things of value and people can have a guess of how valuable a post will be based on who posts it. But for many who are action-faking, it plays a role.
 

DarkWoods

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Hi everyone.

I have not watched the documentary but I really like this discussion.

A few years ago, I I was spending a few hours every day on Facebook, spending too much time on Twitter and trying to create meaningful connections with other LinkedIn users. Then, I was diagnosed with a major depression and anxiety disorder. Most of it came from my job but social media were also to blame.

Since then, I try to reduce the impact that new technologies are having on my anxiety. I am really not perfect but here are a few steps I took to improve my life;

- I have never owned a smartphone. I have a dumb phone that is closed maybe 90% of the time. I use it just in case of an emergency. I prefer to use my home phone. I don't like people to be able to join me all the time.

- I don't have a television. I used to have one but when it broke, I decided not to replace it. I still watch movies sometimes on my little iPad. I love horror movies ;)

- I deleted all my social media accounts. Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn and Instagram in the garbage. I don't see the points of having 350 Facebook "fake friends" or "stalkers" on my profile. My real friends have my email and my phone number and I try to see them as much as possible but recently with covid-19, it's getting nearly impossible. I also think that LinkedIn is useless. For most people, their only goal on LinkedIn is to send the maximum of invitations to strangers but when you write to them, they wont respond. For Instagram well, I have never seen a website as useless as this one.

- Every day, I try to read from a book. You know the two covers with a lot of paper pages inside? That's called a book and we can learn a lot by reading them ;)

- I try to spend as much time as possible outside in nature, doing outdoor sports and to spend less time in front of a screen. Since my computer broke three years ago, I have not replaced it. Instead I use my iPad for everything.

- Learning art (drawing, oil painting ...) is a good way to replace the time you use to spend on social media with something more useful.

Finally, I recommend you read Cal Newport's book called "Digital Minimalism". I was very inspired by this book.
 

Kid

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Thanks, poll added.

I finally finished this and I must say, I was disappointed.

I thought they would go deep into the psychological impacts of this as it pertains to young kids -- how it is creating depression, short attention spans, and addictions to instant gratification. I have first-hand experience with this with a young adult in my life in my family. The little girl taking selfies of duck faces (as demonstrated in The Social Dilemma) is exactly the kind of "disease" I'm talking about, and yes, it is a disease.

Instead, the series seemed to want to say that social media was responsible for fake news -- of course, the type of "news" that hasn't been preselected, preapproved and disseminated by our corporate media overlords ... which Netflix is one.
I gave up on almost all sources of information.
Sound radical but its pragmatic.

One can also meta-learn from such events (I mean this pseudo-documentary).
The thing is that they have agenda. The agenda of Netflix is to sell.

I wrote in post in this thread that FB posted official response to this title.

They basically said how one sided the title was (to FB's disadvantage ofc).

You see two descriptions of reality (or situation) and both of them are totally biased towards those who describe them.

Its like being promised a road out to freedom, and it always turns you back to being enchained.
I'm not even "tired" of it. I don't follow those roads. They stand there like trees on sidewalk, on a rainy day when you bus commute to somewhere. If one of them would be erased, you wouldn't even noticed.
 

metallon

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There was an interesting scene in the documentary where the boy was asked to not use his mobile phone for 7 days. It is an interesting thing to try it out by ourselves. I tried this a year ago after watching Cal Newport's TED talk.

I switched to a flip phone and told myself that I would check my mobile phone after 7 days. And here are a few thoughts.
1. I felt a way more peaceful than before. I don't know why, but I became very calm and the world around me seemed like they were all in a hurry.

2. Initially I thought I would miss important updates. But didn't miss anything much. What I missed is only the birthday reminders. And most of the emails and other updates could wait.

After 7 days, I eventually ended up like the guy in the documentary. This documentary is a good wake-up call for a guy like me. I would suggest everyone to take that challenge and see if we are affected by FOMO, social validation.
 

MJ DeMarco

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1. I felt a way more peaceful than before. I don't know why, but I became very calm and the world around me seemed like they were all in a hurry.

+1.

I am one of the few people in my world who isn't attached to his phone. Once you step away from the nonsense, you feel like you're the only one not infected in a zombie pandemic.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts my friend.
 

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