Lex DeVille's: How to Make $1,000 a Week with no Degree, no Feedback, & no Portfolio.

[SweetTooth]

Hey Lex. How do you handle clients that try to turn you from contractor to employee? My two only local clients that I have helped with copywriting, marketing, and websites have both had some delusional assumption envisioning that I would be their apprentice, marketing director, or other things outside of the work that was agreed upon. Could it be that its because I'm 20 years old and they're much older? Causing them to associate being older with teaching or controlling? Its a very thin bridge trying to explain to them that I want to stay as a contractor that helps them. How would you handle it? What is a way that I can make the relationship clearly stated from the get go?

 

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[Lex DeVille]

Hey Lex. How do you handle clients that try to turn you from contractor to employee? My two only local clients that I have helped with copywriting, marketing, and websites have both had some delusional assumption envisioning that I would be their apprentice, marketing director, or other things outside of the work that was agreed upon. Could it be that its because I'm 20 years old and they're much older? Causing them to associate being older with teaching or controlling? Its a very thin bridge trying to explain to them that I want to stay as a contractor that helps them. How would you handle it? What is a way that I can make the relationship clearly stated from the get go?

Usually I don't have to handle them because I spend a lot of time picking and choosing.

I'd rather not have clients at all than have clients who don't understand / respect the freelance mentality.

That's because freelance isn't my Fastlane, and I can't afford to spend all my time working for others.

Every once in a while a client gets pushy and I tell them I'll do my best but I have a very busy schedule.

The way to make the relationship clearly stated from the get go is to clearly state it.

Thanks but no thanks usually works fine for everyone else.

It's not like they can't find another freelancer.

 

[Five Star]

For anyone doubting themselves, my advice is to see it through, and stick it out. Things were slow for me at the start though I kept plugging away. My best week so far was $495 for 16 hrs work, not bad. Just landed some hours this week at $55/hr.

It's also great to work with such a variety of entrepreneurs and businesses, it's inspiring.


In the meantime, I have a question that perhaps some of you might be able to help with. I got a quote for personal liability insurance of over £1200/yr! If I was Freelancing in the UK alone it would be £300.

Because I'm paid through Upwork in USA, then hardly anyone here in the UK wants to even quote because they're unfamiliar with US law. In this day and age of people working globally online, there must be a better option.

Anyone, particularly in the UK with any experience on this?

 

[rblitz]

Thank you SinisterLex!

I'm far away from reaching $1000 a week.
To be honest, it's far less than $1000 a month, at the moment.

But today I've got this email:

I don't do copywriting jobs as I'm, unfortunately, not a native speaker.
I'm into app/web development.
And this niche is very crowded. It's damn hard to get a freelance job because usually there are 30 guys applying within the first 20 minutes a job is posted.
However, I'll always try to stand out from the crowd by applying the things mentioned in this thread.
The first few months were a disaster. I've not getting a single job.
The last four days, however, I was able to land three jobs. In fact, I turned down two additional ones for various reasons.

My next challenge is to get paid much better.
The problem is 95% of the jobs got a "budget" of $150. For designing a website, or developing an app, that's just ridiculous.
I know there are many people out there, from other countries, with much lesser living expenses, etc. But for us folks in Europe/North America it's really hard to cover your expenses by working for such a low pay.

I'll have to figure out how to get paid much more.

But for now, thanks again SinisterLex for indirectly encouraging me to put some more effort into Upwork!

 

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[DrunkFish]

Thank you SinisterLex!

I'm far away from reaching $1000 a week.
To be honest, it's far less than $1000 a month, at the moment.

But today I've got this email:

I don't do copywriting jobs as I'm, unfortunately, not a native speaker.
I'm into app/web development.
And this niche is very crowded. It's damn hard to get a freelance job because usually there are 30 guys applying within the first 20 minutes a job is posted.
However, I'll always try to stand out from the crowd by applying the things mentioned in this thread.
The first few months were a disaster. I've not getting a single job.
The last four days, however, I was able to land three jobs. In fact, I turned down two additional ones for various reasons.

My next challenge is to get paid much better.
The problem is 95% of the jobs got a "budget" of $150. For designing a website, or developing an app, that's just ridiculous.
I know there are many people out there, from other countries, with much lesser living expenses, etc. But for us folks in Europe/North America it's really hard to cover your expenses by working for such a low pay.

I'll have to figure out how to get paid much more.

But for now, thanks again SinisterLex for indirectly encouraging me to put some more effort into Upwork!

Nice man! I just recently got my first somewhat higher paying copy job. $75 for some emails and maybe a homepage. It's weird because some copy jobs will be totally swamped and others will be like 2 applicants. I beat out 15 other people though for this one, i mentioned specific tactics i would use so he felt comfortable because i was using copy terms and such.

 

[rblitz]

It's funny.
Not, it's not.

My account got suspended for no reason!

30 minutes, after posting here, I've got a message from Upwork that my account got suspended. They didn't state a reason.
At the moment, I'm awaiting an answer from them.

And I'm really screwed up! Upwork was my only income stream at the moment.
Which reminds me of the C in CENTS. COMMAND.

Now I have to figure out how to earn money without Upwork.
But that's something for another topic. I don't want to hijack this one here...

 

[DrunkFish]

It's funny.
Not, it's not.

My account got suspended for no reason!

30 minutes, after posting here, I've got a message from Upwork that my account got suspended. They didn't state a reason.
At the moment, I'm awaiting an answer from them.

And I'm really screwed up! Upwork was my only income stream at the moment.
Which reminds me of the C in CENTS. COMMAND.

Now I have to figure out how to earn money without Upwork.
But that's something for another topic. I don't want to hijack this one here...

Make your own website with an LLC and offer web dev packages. You can make way more that way and have reccuring income.

 

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[Metabaron]

It's funny.
Not, it's not.

My account got suspended for no reason!

30 minutes, after posting here, I've got a message from Upwork that my account got suspended. They didn't state a reason.
At the moment, I'm awaiting an answer from them.

And I'm really screwed up! Upwork was my only income stream at the moment.
Which reminds me of the C in CENTS. COMMAND.

Now I have to figure out how to earn money without Upwork.
But that's something for another topic. I don't want to hijack this one here...

I also had this happen today. I had someone offer to pay me off of upwork because they don't like the middleman, and said we could see about it after this job, and it was flagged. It violates thier terms of service to accept jobs or payment not through them. This was my first paying job, and I HATED the lose of control.

 

[Lex DeVille]

It's funny.
Not, it's not.

My account got suspended for no reason!

30 minutes, after posting here, I've got a message from Upwork that my account got suspended. They didn't state a reason.
At the moment, I'm awaiting an answer from them.

And I'm really screwed up! Upwork was my only income stream at the moment.
Which reminds me of the C in CENTS. COMMAND.

Now I have to figure out how to earn money without Upwork.
But that's something for another topic. I don't want to hijack this one here...

It sucks, but really it doesn't matter.

Just take what you've learned and apply it somewhere else.

If you've really learned to help people the results will be the same whether you're on Upwork, local or someplace else.

 

[Metabaron]

I wanted to thank you @SinisterLex for helping show me the way. Thanks to your teachings and videos I was able to land the very 1st job I applied for on upwork, @ more hourly than my day job. This job is also teaching me e-commerce skills while I get paid. Was also invited to write a 1000 word article for content on a provisional basis, waiting to hear back on that. It's not fastlane, but is part of my Hustle to get seed money. Thanks again SinisterLex.

 

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[SweetTooth]

Usually I don't have to handle them because I spend a lot of time picking and choosing.

I'd rather not have clients at all than have clients who don't understand / respect the freelance mentality.

That's because freelance isn't my Fastlane, and I can't afford to spend all my time working for others.

Every once in a while a client gets pushy and I tell them I'll do my best but I have a very busy schedule.

The way to make the relationship clearly stated from the get go is to clearly state it.

Thanks but no thanks usually works fine for everyone else.

It's not like they can't find another freelancer.

I've earned a couple hundred dollars off Upwork since January so I've dealt with a couple clients. One enormous aspect I've come across with the higher priced projects is that each client wants to have the task done in their own way and with their own advice. Even when they hire me to be the one to do that? I'll be doing copywriting projects and these clients will want something done their own way when it doesn't even work. It's really ironic when they mention in their project description post that they don't know marketing/copywriting/designing and thats why they're hiring. Yet once they hire you they know everything about the topic and at more of a deep-rooted level than apparently I do. I'll try to advise them on what's proven to work and why it works. But it hardly gets me anywhere, they want it done their way.

I don't even try to explain why I do things anymore to the clients. Especially copywriting. Now if they want it done their way I'll just nod my head yes and do it exactly how they want it done. They'll have a copywriting strategy that doesn't work yet its what they want and they're happy with it. I thought it was just one client but its an issue I've come across with many of the high paying clients.

 

[SweetTooth]

It's funny.
Not, it's not.

My account got suspended for no reason!

30 minutes, after posting here, I've got a message from Upwork that my account got suspended. They didn't state a reason.
At the moment, I'm awaiting an answer from them.

And I'm really screwed up! Upwork was my only income stream at the moment.
Which reminds me of the C in CENTS. COMMAND.

Now I have to figure out how to earn money without Upwork.
But that's something for another topic. I don't want to hijack this one here...

This is the dominant issue with Upwork, Fiverr, and other client connecting contractor sites that I noticed from the get-go. Your success on Upwork is established by your job success score, client feedback, and badges. If you lose your profile, you lose all your leverage in contracting. If you're doing $1,000 projects because you have a powerful history with strong reviews, and you lose all of it. Then you can't just make a new profile with no reviews and start asking for $1,000 a project again. You'll get destroyed. When I first got my rising-talent badge, I never had so many clients wanting to work with me before. I literally had to tell clients that they will have to wait if they want to work with me. To put it in even more perspective, I had 2 applications I put in weeks ago that were suddenly approved by clients. All because of the trustworthy rising talent badge. And within a day it was removed. I contacted Upwork and they said it was because I was on my way towards the top-rated badge. It makes very little sense and emphasizes the lack of control.

The solution to this is having your own contractor website that you can showcase your reviews, portfolio, pictures and more. This puts you in control should you have to switch platforms. It is important for me to mention that this should not be a reason to avoid Upwork. This platform is genuinely profitable. And it is one I will continue using.

 

[Lex DeVille]

I don't even try to explain why I do things anymore to the clients. Especially copywriting. Now if they want it done their way I'll just nod my head yes and do it exactly how they want it done.

If you know so much what stops you from getting through to them?

If you can't sell them on why your way is better, why should they believe it is?

Clients aren't stupid. Many of them own multi-million dollar companies.

They're putting that in your hands and if you screw it up, it hurts them.

Show them results and they'll listen. Prove you can help them and they'll do it your way.

Sure you can give them what they want and they'll be happy for a minute.

But who do they blame when they get those same results?

A hint - not themselves.

 

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[Five Star]

I've earned a couple hundred dollars off Upwork since January so I've dealt with a couple clients. One enormous aspect I've come across with the higher priced projects is that each client wants to have the task done in their own way and with their own advice. Even when they hire me to be the one to do that? I'll be doing copywriting projects and these clients will want something done their own way when it doesn't even work. It's really ironic when they mention in their project description post that they don't know marketing/copywriting/designing and thats why they're hiring. Yet once they hire you they know everything about the topic and at more of a deep-rooted level than apparently I do. I'll try to advise them on what's proven to work and why it works. But it hardly gets me anywhere, they want it done their way.

I don't even try to explain why I do things anymore to the clients. Especially copywriting. Now if they want it done their way I'll just nod my head yes and do it exactly how they want it done. They'll have a copywriting strategy that doesn't work yet its what they want and they're happy with it. I thought it was just one client but its an issue I've come across with many of the high paying clients.

Yep, agree with you on that one! I've noticed it a lot too, though I still persist with the reasoning behind doing what I do, and why it will help them.

 

[NoPainNoGain]

...

· There are a lot of clients who like to offer peanuts for pay!
· There are clients who will take advantage of new Freelancers (“Do 20 hours of work for $5, but be assured you will get 5 star feedback to boost your new profile”)
·







Anyway, this post turned out to be a lot longer than I planned! I hope it’s of help to anyone considering making the jump – just go for it! ...

Hi there @Five Star, thank you for sharing what you've learned.

As you mentioned, some clients will attempt to take advantage of new freelancers, trying to get them to do good work and offer insignificant money and promise a five star review to entice them(the freelancers), to accept.

Have you accepted any of these to get a five star review? Did the employer actually deliver on his promise?

 

[Five Star]

Hi there @Five Star, thank you for sharing what you've learned.

As you mentioned, some clients will attempt to take advantage of new freelancers, trying to get them to do good work and offer insignificant money and promise a five star review to entice them(the freelancers), to accept.

Have you accepted any of these to get a five star review? Did the employer actually deliver on his promise?

No, I didn't take any of the jobs that I was referring to in my post, though I certainly started off with some lower paying jobs. It's necessary to take some lower paying jobs to get started, but the ones I was referring to were ridiculous.

Recently however, I was negotiating the price with a client. He did low ball me with a counter offer, with the promise of a 5 star review on the completion of work. I took the job at the lower price because it was one I wanted to do, and thought it would be good experience. The client did come through with a great review though.

That being said, I always over deliver, and so expect a good review anyhow so these kind of promises don't really mean much at this point.

 

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[DrunkFish]

Ayee I made it to the rising talent program.

I've made around $200 from upwork so far. Haven't been going hard though. I think I'm coming to a point where I need to learn to focus some energy and drop some other lanes in life. Between my normal job, training, foundation stuff, car stuff, filming/photos, social media, family/friends, trying to get into public speaking, and then this I find it hard to find time. Seems a mess.

Maybe once i get a laptop I'll be able to focus better in public spots. I have bad ADD and it's so easy to get distracted with cleaning, forum browsing, eating, music, videos, etc.

 

[SYK]

Anyone interested in some regular copywriting work (~$20hr) for a UK business? I was doing some on the side but no longer have the time. PM if interested. I'll be referring you so will need to run my eyes over some of your copy.

 

[The-J]

FINAL UPDATE:

I no longer write copy as a deliverable. I haven't done a copy job for a client in over a month.

I sell business solutions, for which copy is a part. The other parts are hired out, and copy will be hired out very soon too.

Within the next month, I will no longer be writing any copy unless I really have to. And I will not be doing it for a direct payment.

The only work in my business that I do is liaising with customers and freelancers.

What does that mean for me? Well, it means I'm done, and let me tell you why.

The end game of this stuff is not a $60k a year job. You can get that learning a trade. You can get that hustling on Craigslist. You can get that by going to college, networking, and getting a job in middle management for a big firm. F*ck it, go work for an agency. $60k a year while writing proposals and churning out deliverables is nothing to get excited about, folks: I don't care where you live. This is not what the forum is about.

The real evolution is to take what you learned here and apply it to your own Fastlane business.

Let me give you some examples of how to apply this knowledge:

• Writing copy for your own landing pages, websites, Amazon listings, sales funnels, and client proposals... among other things.
• Writing copy to your job postings to attract the best freelancers or employees.
• Using the knowledge of copy to boost your performance over the phone when talking to a potential customer.
• Using the knowledge of copy to talk to current customers and improve your customer service.
• Using what you learned from identifying and communicating customer needs to find new business ideas.
• A hell of a lot more that I can't think of right now

Don't work in a business, work on a business. I guarantee you, in 99% of cases it's better to spend your time securing customers than to spend your time building the system from scratch.

Remember: the end game of learning copy and doing these jobs is NOT to create a job for yourself! That's not the goal! It's a consequence of getting good. Let me repeat: creating a job this way is a CONSEQUENCE, not a GOAL. It just happens when you start to focus and get good at writing copy, listening to customers, and (gasp) CHALLENGING them on the way they do things.

Many members of the forum think that these kinds of threads are silly. I don't, but I can see why they do. It's because you guys need to raise your expectations.

 

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[Mac]

Business has been booming for me on Upwork. The last three high-paying clients I've had found ME. Just landed a 7-touch direct response campaign job for $500. And I even have people hitting me up on LinkedIn asking me to quote them jobs.

 

[Rudynate]

If you know so much what stops you from getting through to them?

If you can't sell them on why your way is better, why should they believe it is?

Clients aren't stupid. Many of them own multi-million dollar companies.

They're putting that in your hands and if you screw it up, it hurts them.

Show them results and they'll listen. Prove you can help them and they'll do it your way.

Sure you can give them what they want and they'll be happy for a minute.

But who do they blame when they get those same results?

A hint - not themselves.

I deal with this all the time. When I disagree with the approach a client wants to take, I explain very carefully, point by point, why I think there is a better way, and what doing it their way will cost them. I explain step-by-step what I want to do and why it will work better than what they want to do. If I can't convince them, we do it their way, and I do it to the best of my ability. Sometimes, if I think they are really shooting themselves in the foot in insisting on their way, I refuse to do it. When I refuse to do it, then they really listen.

 

[Betuterien]

I'm just starting on Upwork and Fiverr, among others. I think there is a great potential for growth on these websites.

 

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[Brandon Parker]

Not sure if freelancers are still browsing this thread, but I wanted to share something for those who are starting out. Sinister's philosophy works fantastically for landing clients, but there's another thing to really knock the proposal out of the park.

Provide a relavent sample. It's not smart to build a generic portfolio since works from your portfolio will likely not relate to the specific job a client needs. I assume some of you have no experience, so you need to prove you can deliver what they need. What better way to do that than providing a specific sample?

Check this post out, it helped me land my first three clients in a span of a few days.
https://freelancetowin.com/how-to-become-a-copywriter/

The post is meant for copywriters, but the same concept should apply to any other job.

With a combination of writing a you focused proposal and providing a super specific sample, how can a client not hire you? I used this to land a client for double the asking price before I even had my first 5-star rating.

There's not much you can lose. If you get it, cool. If not, it was good practice and you can improve your next one.

 

[SweetTooth]

Hey Sinister, in interviews I will often get asked to show proof with results (conversion rate or profit made for the client from the copywriting), the trouble is most clients don't follow up with you and tell you how well your copy did for them so you can't give new clients any proof of results. Have you encountered this and how do you handle it?

 

[Lex DeVille]

Hey Sinister, in interviews I will often get asked to show proof with results (conversion rate or profit made for the client from the copywriting), the trouble is most clients don't follow up with you and tell you how well your copy did for them so you can't give new clients any proof of results. Have you encountered this and how do you handle it?

When are you getting asked? Over Skype?

Usually my clients don't ask because I only accept jobs from those who already want to hire me based on profile alone.

The best answer is to hit up some of your old clients and ask how things are going. See if they'll share the results.

It's a good way to strike up a conversation and see if they need more work too.

The best way to overcome the question in Skype interviews is just to be the one asking questions.

If you're asking they're answering and when they're answering they're not thinking about your history because they're focused on themselves.

That's the power of y.o.u. focus.

Ask questions to clarify their needs and they'll know you're a professional.

If all else fails, remind them you offer a money-back guarantee.

 

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[InstantNoodles]

Great thread! I bought cashvertising and finished the book in two days!

Lex, what were the other books you recommended. I know you suggested some but they were buried in this thread somewhere.

 

[Lex DeVille]

Great thread! I bought cashvertising and finished the book in two days!

Lex, what were the other books you recommended. I know you suggested some but they were buried in this thread somewhere.

For copywriting I read Cashvertising, Breakthrough Advertising, and Scientific Advertising.

 

[zerobrainwash]

The real evolution is to take what you learned here and apply it to your own Fastlane business.

Very wise words!! Consciously investing time in building an actual business that can make money while you sleep is key! But freelancing is a nice way to step out of a comfort zone for most people and get a glimpse of what's it like to be on your own. It certainly was for me at least.

 

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[NonMagicalGenie]

@SinisterLex, thank you so much for this thread once again haha.

So far I have completed 1 copywriting job and received 5 stars and feedback (I had completed non-copywriting jobs before landing this one)! Money wasn't that good, but the 5 stars and feedback are well worth the time I put into it (its worth more than the money I received). Since I was also able to use what I created as my portfolio piece. And people bought the service that I was helping him promote. I felt so happy when I found out!

Currently I am working on 2 other copywriting jobs. One is from the same person that hired me for my first one, and the second one I got invited to, and he is paying me the rate I proposed, 25/hr! And I know I can over deliver on both of them.

Your feedback and advice you have given are really invaluable. Without this thread I don't know what I would be doing. But it definitely wouldn't be pushing for my dreams. I would still be in Virginia, miserable and blaming everyone else for where I am instead of taking action and going all in to make my dreams a reality. Can't thank you enough.

With that said.

Loving the new youtube videos! Keep um coming .

 

[iizu]

Just wanted to thank you @SinisterLex for this great thread. Seriously helpful information for anybody who is looking to make some extra. Freelancing has a real low barrier of entry and there are really no execuses for not trying. The advice in this thread works!

I'm about to reach my first 1000 $ in Upwork just by reading this thread.

I know that it is not fastlane, but it is a good start:
You help somebody solve a problem on the other side of planet and they like your solution so much, that they send you money

Will transfer Rep(when I have enough to give, better go and help somebody )