Lex DeVille's: How to Make $1,000 a Week with no Degree, no Feedback, & no Portfolio.

[Lex DeVille]

Hey there @SinisterRex, I've read over this a few times and have a few questions. What exactly IS Odesk?

Edit* I've checked it out and discovered that I don't have any skills that would come in useful for clients on Odesk. For the time being, at least

You speak English. You're better prepared for oDesk (Now called Upwork) than 90% of the freelancers on the site.

You said you work with music. Do you make music? I just paid someone $100 for two short musical pieces on Upwork.

Your writing is clear enough, so you're qualified for creative article writing.

In your thread you said you have business inclinations. I know you're passionate about making change.

So imagine how your world will start to change when you move from "I wish" to "I will".

Forget words like "I can't because", "I don't have any"... those are limiting beliefs.

The Fastlane doesn't care what limits you. It only cares how you connect where you're at with where you want to be.

 

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[Lex DeVille]

@SinisterLex what is the lenght of the application you do recommend? I don't want to scare potential client with too focused application thank you for this amazing thread!

Hey Michal,

Kind of a tricky question since my knee-jerk answer is: custom tailor it to your client's needs.

A good question to ask is: What kind of job is it?

Sales Copy = Long a$$ application unless the client specifically says "keep it short". Demonstrate your sales skills.

Content/Article Gigs = Doesn't have to be very long. Just show you speak English well.

Web Pages = Medium to long with a direct focus on conversions & customer problem solving.

This is a pretty generalized way of looking at it, but it's a start. I try to give each client a taste of the exact kind of writing they can expect, and then I link to my portfolio on Dropbox so they can read more.

If you really want to get into it...some clients only need the big picture, and some need lots of detail. With a keen eye you can notice this by the words they use in their job posting.

Big Picture Example:

"Our company needs a copywriter to write some articles and make some sales pages. If you're a good fit for the job then please apply."

• Kinda sucks for the Copywriter because they have no idea if they're a fit for the job. Not enough details to know anything really. But actually this says A LOT about how the client thinks. He doesn't need much info. He just needs to know you can do the job, and get it done right. Vague language like "some" and "good fit" means you're probably safe with a shorter application. Also you can use bullet points here to sum up your experience & training.

Detailed Example:

"Kansas Wine & Alligators LLC seeks a dedicated direct response copywriter to write nine articles about wine etiquette and alligator wrestling. Please send four examples of previous similar experience, and also let us know what experience and what training you have. If you can follow detailed instructions and meet deadlines, please apply.

• In this one we get a lot more info. A lot more details. More numbers. More precise. They want more information. They want all the little pieces of the puzzle before they choose you. So, for this one write a longer application.

Bonus Points

When you really start to pay attention you can write your applications to mimic the client. If he uses vague language, then your language can be more vague also.

Vague: "I've written some pretty good articles and lots of great salescopy."

Specific: "I just finished writing 4 articles on gas fume addictions that increased my client's conversions by 44% overnight."

 

[Michał Kóska]

Perfect, thank you @SinisterLex for your insights! I'm new in there and trying to get good reputation, my aim is to start with making $100/week on a side as I'm still working full time. Right now I'm still waiting for my 1st contract

 

[Lex DeVille]

Perfect, thank you @SinisterLex for your insights! I'm new in there and trying to get good reputation, my aim is to start with making $100/week on a side as I'm still working full time. Right now I'm still waiting for my 1st contract

If your aim is $100/week, go for article writing gigs.

$5 per article x 2 articles a day x 5 days a week = $100.

These are super easy to get and super easy to over-deliver on.

 

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[Michał Kóska]

Thank you for that idea! I'll be able to build a reputation through it and open a way to more $ profitable contracts in the future.

You are a good man @SinisterLex !

 

[harerace]

@SinisterLex

Brother I would like to thank you for saving my a$$. I followed what you said and it worked. I got so many replies of people happy that I didn't copy and paste a response and I took the time out to research their company or product. My niche is WordPress services. Thanks again!

The attachment is 6 days on upwork.

 

[Sheps]

If your aim is $100/week, go for article writing gigs.

$5 per article x 2 articles a day x 5 days a week = $100.

These are super easy to get and super easy to over-deliver on.

What have you found is the best bang for your buck job? Best pay to time investment scale?

 

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[Lex DeVille]

What have you found is the best bang for your buck job? Best pay to time investment scale?

If I had to pick one, I'd probably say SEO Webpages.

The main thing that slows down writing is flow. Most clients who want SEO don't care much about the technical aspects of copy. They're more worried about ranking pages on Google than carrying readers from one line to the next.

That makes my job a lot easier because instead of writing copy I'm just telling a a short creative story and sprinkling keywords here and there. Usually they don't care if you use a casual tone over something more technical, so that speeds up flow too. The best part is it's considered copywriting so you can still earn quite a bit for these gigs.

One of my clients needed like 27 pages with 350 words per page and keywords. I charged a high flat rate, and completed it in a couple days in my spare time. I thought the rough draft writing was shit, but they thought it was fine and accepted it as is.

If you really want to capitalize on your time, consider the LTV (Life Time Value) of your clients. Follow up with people who've hired you in the past, because they're more likely to pay you again.

If you really want the best bang for your buck, get hired and blow them away, get them to rehire you + refer you to their friends.

 

[Trevor Chaumont]

You speak English. You're better prepared for oDesk (Now called Upwork) than 90% of the freelancers on the site.

You said you work with music. Do you make music? I just paid someone $100 for two short musical pieces on Upwork.

Your writing is clear enough, so you're qualified for creative article writing.

In your thread you said you have business inclinations. I know you're passionate about making change.

So imagine how your world will start to change when you move from "I wish" to "I will".

Forget words like "I can't because", "I don't have any"... those are limiting beliefs.

The Fastlane doesn't care what limits you. It only cares how you connect where you're at with where you want to be.

Thanks man, I'm beginning to see how my mindset is limiting me more and more each day! I'm creating a freelance profile right away.

 

[SYK]

This thread is all about shining examples of how to apply for jobs. From the client side, here's how not to do it.

These are actual answers I got to my screening requirements. And this coming from someone with 0 jobs and 0 hours clocked.

It'd be like telling an employer you'll hand over your resume once you're hired.

What are your nutritionist qualifications/certifications?

If you offer me the position I will tell you all my qualifications and certifications

One of the ingredients in our products is avocado. In a sentence or two, show us how you would describe some of the features/benefits of avocado.

Again only if you offer me the position I will explain the benefits of avocados

Cover Letter

Cover letter upon offer of position

 

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[David Fiddler]

This thread is all about shining examples of how to apply for jobs. From the client side, here's how not to do it.

These are actual answers I got to my screening requirements. And this coming from someone with 0 jobs and 0 hours clocked.

It'd be like telling an employer you'll hand over your resume once you're hired.

What are your nutritionist qualifications/certifications?

If you offer me the position I will tell you all my qualifications and certifications

One of the ingredients in our products is avocado. In a sentence or two, show us how you would describe some of the features/benefits of avocado.

Again only if you offer me the position I will explain the benefits of avocados

Cover Letter

Cover letter upon offer of position

Lol. I'll comment something meaningful on your post but only if you pay me $100 right now.

 

[Formless]

This thread is all about shining examples of how to apply for jobs. From the client side, here's how not to do it.

These are actual answers I got to my screening requirements. And this coming from someone with 0 jobs and 0 hours clocked.

It'd be like telling an employer you'll hand over your resume once you're hired.

What are your nutritionist qualifications/certifications?

If you offer me the position I will tell you all my qualifications and certifications

One of the ingredients in our products is avocado. In a sentence or two, show us how you would describe some of the features/benefits of avocado.

Again only if you offer me the position I will explain the benefits of avocados

Cover Letter

Cover letter upon offer of position

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• Enjoyment of Food and Beverages
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• Sexual Companionship (more than you could EVER imagine!)
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• Care and Protection of Loved Ones
• Social Approval

What's more! I'll RUSH IT IMMEDIATELY to you for a VERY SMALL outlay. A mere fraction of its value.

I've changed the lives of 12,997 THRILLED CLIENTS...

For a measly $497...

This is only a fraction of what my help is worth!

But since we are forum buddies, I'll give you a SPECIAL deal.

NOT $̶4̶9̶7̶

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Paypal me now at ************ and get the RESPONSE, AND LIFE, THAT YOU DESERVE.

P.S. I have clients flash-flooding my inbox every minute. I'm currently qualifying and selecting the HIGHEST PAYING ONES. Once I start working for them (by tomorrow), I will no longer have the time to give you this monster of a deal.

Do not let hesitation rob you of your ticket to a great life.

Order Now at *********

---------------------

Am I doin' it rite guise?

 

[harerace]

@SinisterLex

Two things. What are your thoughts on buying extra proposal credits and on bidding on jobs where the client is new or no feedback.

 

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[Lex DeVille]

@SinisterLex

Two things. What are your thoughts on buying extra proposal credits and on bidding on jobs where the client is new or no feedback.

I never use more than a couple credits each month. Haven't ever dipped below 40 so there was never any need for it. Upwork isn't my only source of clients, and I usually only bid on high-paying clients and focus more on exceeding their specific needs.

As for clients who are new to Upwork, I personally don't bid on these because they haven't proven themselves worth my time. A lot of new clients are just like new freelancers. They still have certain mentalities that I'm not interested in. Those I've worked with still have this I'm the boss, you're the employee mentality and that's not a very good way to start a relationship. People who freelance don't do it because they want a job.

That said, new clients can be easy to pick up if you offer a great deal and give value.

 

[David Neill]

@SinisterLex first and foremost. This thread is mind blowing with the amount of value it has. I'm super new to the copywriting game (Still going through the process of the AWAI copywriting course) Is it wise to create my upwork profile and begin researching customer needs to create a customized value proposition?

 

[Lex DeVille]

@SinisterLex first and foremost. This thread is mind blowing with the amount of value it has. I'm super new to the copywriting game (Still going through the process of the AWAI copywriting course) Is it wise to create my upwork profile and begin researching customer needs to create a customized value proposition?

If you think about it - I'm pretty sure you already know the answer.

 

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[Trixii]

This works and it's amazing. I registered to Elance a long time ago and read this thread sometime later but I didn't act because I got a large batch of work from elsewhere and had other projects on the go. This week I came back to register on Upwork, re-read this thread and applied for 2 jobs. One came back to me and I'm working on it now.

My rate is not low. It is by no means high and I intend to raise it as soon as I can but it's a livable wage level (a fair bit over the minimum wage here in the UK).

I'll add more details later if anyone is interested - right now I have work to do.

This thread is pure gold - thank you to everyone who has contributed.

 

[Trixii]

This works and it's amazing. I registered to Elance a long time ago and read this thread sometime later but I didn't act because I got a large batch of work from elsewhere and had other projects on the go. This week I came back to register on Upwork, re-read this thread and applied for 2 jobs. One came back to me and I'm working on it now.

My rate is not low. It is by no means high and I intend to raise it as soon as I can but it's a livable wage level (a fair bit over the minimum wage here in the UK).

I'll add more details later if anyone is interested - right now I have work to do.

This thread is pure gold - thank you to everyone who has contributed.

(Oh, and I'm not completely new here. I seem to have lost my login details - pretty sure I had another profile at some point...)

 

[exclusives88]

So, I had to hire a new accountant after my bookkeeper quit. (Said it was due to health?) So, it was back to the drawing board and I made another Upwork Ad. Got a bunch of applications, but it only took about 10 seconds to find the right one.

The new accountant is way more expensive, but she gets it, and knows how to focus on solving problems. Things are going good so far and she's fixing a lot of stuff the last guy messed up. Anyway, enough about that - just want mention an email I got yesterday from Upwork...

The subject line was something like "Checking in again: How's your project going?"

I wasn't sure wtf it was and assumed it was checking in on me as a freelancer. But it was actually some sort of survey and they wanted input as an employer. It only had 1 question...

Q. How confident are you that (freelancer) will finish the job successfully? Select one below.

1. I feel very confident.
2. I feel pretty confident.
3. I'm a little concerned.
4. I don't feel confident at all.

Thought you guys might wanna know since you don't get the email on the freelancer side. It reinforces the importance of asking specific, detailed questions to understand your client's needs. I can't say for sure, but I'm 99% certain the response to this email impacts the freelancer's Job Success score.

So keep this in mind anytime you apply, interview, or get hired - you have to prove beyond a shadow of doubt that you can solve your client's problems. They have to know it. There can't be any reason to believe anything different, because now just getting hired isn't enough. Now you actually have to do things that cause clients to feel confident in you, and you have to keep proving it throughout the project.

Anything less and your Job Success score, and therefore your ability to get gigs is at risk.

Just do it.

Hi @SinisterLex can you get in more detail what the accountant did to dtand out of from the rest? I'm a CPA and have been considering doing freelance work on the side.

Thanks!

 

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[Lex DeVille]

Hi @SinisterLex can you get in more detail what the accountant did to dtand out of from the rest? I'm a CPA and have been considering doing freelance work on the side.

Thanks!

I don't have access to her original cover letter anymore, but here's some stuff that caught my attention:

• "Accounting & Tax CPA based in Dallas, TX" - Listed at top of cover letter
• Asked questions about specific aspects of my business
• Mentioned Oct. tax deadline that I wasn't aware of (very helpful)
• No grammar errors in cover letter

This stuff got her in the door. ^

• 100% Job Satisfaction
• 503 Hours Worked
• Perfect Feedback
• Accounting Degree in Texas
• Uses Quickbooks Online
• Priced in my range

This is what I saw in her profile. ^

Next I messaged her with a couple of questions and a little more info to see how she'd respond. She responded with answers + more questions going into deeper detail.

We scheduled a Skype chat and during the session she let me do most of the talking. Her answers weren't judgmental in any way and didn't come across as critical. That's important because I don't want to feel judged by an accountant. I just want her to execute. I know my shits jacked up, so just help me fix it lol.

She also catered to me when it came to phone chat vs. text chat. All of her questions helped clarify specifics about my business and made me feel comfortable that she's capable of handling my tasks.

All of this = a winning application based on past freelance experience. So I hired her.

In summary:
• She read the job post & touched my strongest desires instantly.
• She asked questions to help clarify my needs from the start.
• She offered valuable information right in the cover letter.
• Her profile backed her cover letter, adding proof that she was worth the cost.
• Throughout the entire process she spent free time to offer tailored, valuable responses & advice.

 

[The Grind]

Whats a good way to convince a client to pay your hourly?

Hourly looks better on your profile.

I got 5 or so jobs in the past week ( not sure how or why ) and they all said "I prefer to pay a fixed price". I just agreed with a mentality of "whatever makes it easier for the client and makes them happier".

 

[Lex DeVille]

Whats a good way to convince a client to pay your hourly?

Hourly looks better on your profile.

I got 5 or so jobs in the past week ( not sure how or why ) and they all said "I prefer to pay a fixed price". I just agreed with a mentality of "whatever makes it easier for the client and makes them happier".

Usually I only bring it up if I think they'll be a good ongoing client.

A lot of clients want fixed price because they only pay when the work is done and they've approved it.

So, if you want to move to hourly you gotta make it a smooth transition.

You have to address their concerns and show how it benefits them.

I usually do it like this:

Client says: "Okay, well, I don't think I have any more questions for you, so I'll go ahead and start the contract if you're ready."

I say: "Thanks Don, oh, before you start the contract, would you consider switching to hourly pay so you can track everything I do with screenshots. The amount's still the same and I won't go over. If I do you can just delete anything that doesn't belong. Plus Upwork only gives their money-back guarantee on hourly jobs. This way we both benefit because you can see what I'm doing and you help me prove I'm worth it."

Ask and you shall receive.

 

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[The Grind]

Lex how did you become such a good writer, do you write for hours everyday about random topics?

Do you copy sales letters?

Do you read a lot?

Whats your process you've used?

 

[Lex DeVille]

Lex how did you become such a good writer, do you write for hours everyday about random topics?

Do you copy sales letters?

Do you read a lot?

Whats your process you've used?

I've never copied a sales letter. I think it helps some people, but I don't like to limit myself like that.

Probably the biggest influence came from learning short stories for a year.

Before that I used to study/practice influence, persuasion & interpersonal communication a lot for a long time.

Now I mostly get experience from gigs and by catering to a variety of clients.

If I need to mimic a certain style I just study it for a few minutes then put it to use.

If I miss the mark the client tells me and I adjust, reload, and fire again.

Basically it's a combo of learning to write + understanding people + taking action to get feedback.

 

[mosdef]

Started to think outside of the box and got my first job today!!

Havent finished the job yet but im so happy so had to come and tell you guys

Thx to Sinisterlex and thanks to everyone who contributed to this forum.

Probably some luck that i got the job to. You know that? When you try over and over again sometime you gonna get lucky.

 

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[Xiz7ian]

What's up FLFers. Fellow freelancer, copywriter, SEO here.

Just caught up on this thread.

I've been freelancing on and off for the past year,
and I had no idea of the hourly wage my skills could garnish.

I'm in the process of revamping my UpWork profile.

Follow me, keep me accountable,
and I'll share you tips, tricks, and the cover letters I used to convert candidacies to interviews.

The mission is:
$0 to $3,000 a month freelancing.


No Excuses.
Down With Rationals
& F*ck Resistance!!!
Let's GO!!

Now back to you @SinisterLex .

 

[David Fiddler]

Alright, went back for some more work. It's addictive when you get feedbacks like this.

It isn't as hard as it sounds to be awesome. Most freelancers don't give a shit. Not only about the application, but about the jobs or the clients.
They want to get paid quick then F*ck off.
They view their clients as temporary employers.

But they really are your friends and business partners.
So get them involved, talk shop, make extra suggestions even if it's not your job.

It won't only affect your clients' opinions in a positive way...
It's actually great for you.

You're reading all this marketing and business stuff anyway. You have some insight. Even though not first-hand experience,
it's still much more than the average Internet entrepreneur reads or knows about.

So if you remember something relevant your clients could use, or just see a good ad in the niche on Fb when you're browsing...
let them know. They will appreciate it.

I get feedback like this not because I'm some special snowflake. Hell, sometimes I doubt I'm any good.
But my attitude gets me results.

And unlike a pro level skill, an attitude is easy and quick to develop.

PS - Yes, it's a $100 job. But it took only around 2 hours since it was a copy review.
And guess who's this guy gonna get to write copy for his next projects?
Or who will he recommend to his friends.

So in the long run, it isn't about $100 and then getting out of there.

It's about your clients' lifetime value.
(and generally, being a cool cat they can trust)

 

[Lex DeVille]

Alright, went back for some more work. It's addictive when you get feedbacks like this.

It isn't as hard as it sounds to be awesome. Most freelancers don't give a shit. Not only about the application, but about the jobs or the clients.
They want to get paid quick then F*ck off.
They view their clients as temporary employers.

But they really are your friends and business partners.
So get them involved, talk shop, make extra suggestions even if it's not your job.

It won't only affect your clients' opinions in a positive way...
It's actually great for you.

You're reading all this marketing and business stuff anyway. You have some insight. Even though not first-hand experience,
it's still much more than the average Internet entrepreneur reads or knows about.

So if you remember something relevant your clients could use, or just see a good ad in the niche on Fb when you're browsing...
let them know. They will appreciate it.

I get feedback like this not because I'm some special snowflake. Hell, sometimes I doubt I'm any good.
But my attitude gets me results.

And unlike a pro level skill, an attitude is easy and quick to develop.

PS - Yes, it's a $100 job. But it took only around 2 hours since it was a copy review.
And guess who's this guy gonna get to write copy for his next projects?
Or who will he recommend to his friends.

So in the long run, it isn't about $100 and then getting out of there.

It's about your clients' lifetime value.
(and generally, being a cool cat they can trust)

Seriously guys...this is what it's all about! WTF is so hard about this?

Solve problems. Help people. Show your value.

So why do I get PMs asking to exchange fake reviews to fix their f*cked up feedback...?

I swear I'd lose my mind if someone didn't make posts like David's that prove there's a better way.

What the F*ck makes some entrepreneurs think shady tactics & more techniques is the way to go... I'll never know.

Until you learn how to connect with people in honest ways that help THEM! You won't get anywhere.

God... people aren't stupid... they see right through your bullshit.

It's why the word transparency is so popular. Because anything else = BS in people's minds.

Feed customers BS and they'll go to a better restaurant with higher quality food.

In case you didn't notice, there's one on every corner.

Props to @David Fiddler for applying his learning and getting real results.

And to those who don't yet get it...go back to page 1. Do not pass go.

 

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[Mr.Optimistic]

Hey @SinisterLex,

I have gone through this thread multiple times and I've learned so many new things.

I do have a question though (pardon me if it has already been asked. There is so much information in this thread).

It is my understanding that the majority of clients that hire copywriters on freelancing sites just expect you to write copy. They do not put you in charge of the campaign (I may be wrong though). If so, how do you test your copy? Do you check back with clients for data?

Also, a kind of dumb request, but may you take a look at my post?
See if the way I organize my sentences are good and if it sounds conversational. I've been trying hard to make my writing sound naturally conversational, but it's a difficult task.

I'm still stuck using the mindset and techniques of the 6 paragraph essay writing method. Plus, I'm from a country where using broken English is a norm even if everyone uses it daily. So, using "normal" conversational English is really darn difficult for me.

Thanks a lot for the thread @SinisterLex, you've helped me a lot with my writing.

But, the mindset you preach is where the real value is.

 

[Lex DeVille]

Hey @SinisterLex,

I have gone through this thread multiple times and I've learned so many new things.

I do have a question though (pardon me if it has already been asked. There is so much information in this thread).

It is my understanding that the majority of clients that hire copywriters on freelancing sites just expect you to write copy. They do not put you in charge of the campaign (I may be wrong though). If so, how do you test your copy? Do you check back with clients for data?

Also, a kind of dumb request, but may you take a look at my post?
See if the way I organize my sentences are good and if it sounds conversational. I've been trying hard to make my writing sound naturally conversational, but it's a difficult task.

I'm still stuck using the mindset and techniques of the 6 paragraph essay writing method. Plus, I'm from a country where using broken English is a norm even if everyone uses it daily. So, using "normal" conversational English is really darn difficult for me.

Thanks a lot for the thread @SinisterLex, you've helped me a lot with my writing.

But, the mindset you preach is where the real value is.

Some gigs are just writing copy, and some want more. If you just want feedback on conversion rates it's pretty easy, just ask the client. Of course you run the risk of discovering the truth about how good your copy really is, but in my opinion it's worth it.

Some clients want something more like a Digital Marketing Manager - I don't really get into these gigs, but if you want more oversight on a project this might be the way to go. Once you get into this you can scale up as a consultant, and branch out with referrals. You can manage whole campaigns and keep money constantly flowing in just by handling a few small tasks for a few companies each day.

Your post content actually looks pretty good. It flows well and doesn't sound broken to me. Very few tiny things that may or may not be noticed by others, such as using "are" when "is" is the correct way. But sometimes I use incorrect versions of words on purpose for effect, so take that with a grain of salt.