Jordan Belfort’s Sales Training - Is it worth It?

[DaRK9]

This is the only sales guy I follow https://joshbraun.com/
And for negotiation Chris Voss Black Swan Home - Black Swan

I feel like sales is at a turning point and old tactics are being thrown out the window. It honestly doesn't feel like I'm selling anymore after implementing the tactics from these two.

 

[Minus9]

One sales tip for you: Know your product well - be well informed and how you can benefit your customers with said product. No need for fancy Jordan Belfort tactics that are based on how your voice pitch should be etc. just literally know your product well, have a market for it and sell it. Easier said then done obviously but better spend time on that instead of wasting it on courses like his.

His main source of income like many others is based on course-selling. He might have some useful information but probably not something you want to neccessarily pay for.

My two cents.

 

[csalvato]

I’ve taken his straight line sales course. It’s good but also a bit too much on the scammy sales side for me, personally. But you will learn a few nuggets about selling for sure.

 

[Andy Black]

I’m not a salesman and don’t aspire to be one so take what I say with a pinch of salt...

I don’t recall ever reading a sales book. I must have just picked up bits and pieces over the years. Like being comfortable with silence while they think. Like not coming across as a salesman.

Personally, I’d rather not take any sales courses - because I never have a goal to make the sale.

I like the following lines:

“Sales is a screening process” (Blaise Brosnan)

“The first purchase is a test - both ways.” (Unknown)

“The most important formula in business is R+R.” (Blaise Brosnan)


I’m chatting so we can get to know each other and see if we can create a win-win.

Obviously I try to only chat to people where I believe I can help them, and/or I believe building that relationship will help my business. That’s an important part of the screening process.

Not sure that helps. I’m just putting it out there that maybe you don’t need to take a sales courses?

 

[DaRK9]

Interesting. What’s been your main takeaways? What are you doing different after reading their books?

I’m repelled by even the idea of reading sales books. I just think they’ll mess with my mojo. Am I mistaken?

Josh is big on making deposits with no withdrawals. Most sales are geared around boxing the customer into categories, removing objections and going for the kill. Which, yes you need to do that but more tactfully than most go about it.

Both of the people I mentioned are much more passive and value-based.

Check out Josh on LinkedIn. I pretty much only use LinkedIn to read his posts. This video alone has helped a ton.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zuzR3zC-Jg


Landed an IoT dev project using the methods.

I knew the company was looking to develop an IoT solution in house, knew what the product was and I sent them detailed renders for a prototype with no strings attached. No "Let's schedule a 15 min chat, no pressure."

What, no pressure now that I've given you value then immediately asked for your time? Even if the person schedules they are doing it out of being polite most of the time if you gave them something for free first.

It’s on my list of things to do as well, but I aim to write a whole book on this technique and the different applications of it to gain control and keep control of the conversation, conversation structure/ people’s expectations, and how to always be closing using the technique

I used to sell the same way but moving to these newer methods in B2B has crushed my old methods. People know when they are being controlled and lead into a bunch of yes traps and micro-agreements and all that BS. Especially at higher levels when they have read all the same books as you if not more.

 

[BlindSide]

I'm trying to improve at all forms of Sales. I wont' be doing any cold calling. Mostly calls to warm leads and prospects in my own network. I need to get better at closing and handling objections.

OK -

I've been doing exactly this. But just because I know my product inside out, doesn't mean I'll be great at selling. There's still a lot I need to learn as far as sales go. And I won't learn that by knowing more about my product. I can know it better than the owner of the company himself and it won't make me better than him at sales.

I've been absorbing as much as I can from Grant Cardone, Jordan Belfort and Chet Holmes. It has for sure helped me.

The reason I'm looking into Belfort's program is because what he did is similar to what I'm currently doing.

I personally am not a fan at all - but if they’re producing results, then I don’t have any grounds.

Not sure the price of the course -I think the book Objections by Jeb Blount is good, as is Smart Calling by Art Sobczak.

Courses? Eh. I haven’t seen any that fit. I have a course by Josh Braun, but I’m not 100% sure it’s the right fit for you.

 

[csalvato]

Yes

if you were to read a sales book, you would take what you like that helps you, and you would leave the rest.

Nothing is going to mess with your mojo.

The salesperson needs to be self aware enough to try out the tactics and back off the things that don't work for them.

Too many people read books and blindly apply things, and when it doesn't go well they blame themselves for sucking.

I've seen sales books definitely mess with people's mojo. I've literally seen salespeople go from top to shit because of that mindset.

Like @Likwid24 says, everyone is different. Try to just be yourself and take the pieces of these books/courses that play to your personality and strengths. There's definitely great nuggets in Jordan's courses, and others like him (Cardone, Holmes, etc.)

I have seen people try to be just like Jordan and implement everything he says in the program, and they crash and burn because his methods are for a very particular kind of sale and salesperson, imo.

Just like always be learning, always be experimenting, imo.

 

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[DaRK9]

The thing with sales, marketing and persuasion more generally is that they are always changing. We'll never have a "final" way to sell that is the best. An important factor in selling is standing out - the moment everyone starts sending cute gifts along with their letters, etc. will be the moment when those tactics no longer work. Suddenly the straight forward approach "I wanna sell you this pen" will be back in vogue and you'll appear honest and straightforward by adopting it, as opposed to masking your intentions. At the moment, sending the cute gifts, empathy driven, etc. makes you stand out because so few sales people do it and it's a more human way focused on building relationships. It gives you credibility because you're not just trying to make a buck. But as soon as the people who ARE just trying to make a buck start copying these approaches, that will be the end of them.

I agree to an extent, but until recently salespeople have never really ever ben customer-centric. This is a paradigm shift that I'm not sure will revert.

People have always done gifts and letters. That isn't anything new. The real change has been how salespeople view customers.

The old way of looking at customers is they are all dumb sheep who need to be herded down a "straight line" and to try and one call close every single person you get on the phone with.

The mindset was never "I wanna sell you this pen", in fact, the quote is "Sell me this pen." Which is a command, and how the entire old-school sales process is. Controlling the convo and customer and hardline the sale.

Modern companies that are EQ focused and customer-driven have changed customer buying habits permanently.

The slime-balls might try to emulate EQ but the customer will be able to sniff out the intent.

Using empathy is counterintuitive to the mindset of someone who only cares about the close.

Empathy is a mindset, not another sales tactic and when you get it wrong, it goes very wrong. It's not a masked intent, it's the entire process.

I might be wrong, but I don't see it reverting, only evolving. Sales has been done the same way with only minor adjustments for so long that people kind of accepted all the hard closing and micro-agreements and bs that comes with it.

 

[Likwid24]

Has anyone purchased any of Jordan's Programs? Thoughts?

 

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[csalvato]

One sales tip for you: Know your product well - be well informed and how you can benefit your customers with said product. No need for fancy Jordan Belfort tactics that are based on how your voice pitch should be etc. just literally know your product well, have a market for it and sell it. Easier said then done obviously but better spend time on that instead of wasting it on courses like his.

His main source of income like many others is based on course-selling. He might have some useful information but probably not something you want to neccessarily pay for.

My two cents.

Yeah I agree.

If you have an incredible product, know it inside and out and have read Influence by Cialdini, then you will have no problem selling and won't need all the special tactics these Sales Gurus peddle.

IMO once you get to that baseline, all that other stuff gets you the last 2 mm to be world class.

 

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[Likwid24]

One sales tip for you: Know your product well - be well informed and how you can benefit your customers with said product. No need for fancy Jordan Belfort tactics that are based on how your voice pitch should be etc. just literally know your product well, have a market for it and sell it. Easier said then done obviously but better spend time on that instead of wasting it on courses like his.

His main source of income like many others is based on course-selling. He might have some useful information but probably not something you want to neccessarily pay for.

My two cents.

I've been doing exactly this. But just because I know my product inside out, doesn't mean I'll be great at selling. There's still a lot I need to learn as far as sales go. And I won't learn that by knowing more about my product. I can know it better than the owner of the company himself and it won't make me better than him at sales.

I've been absorbing as much as I can from Grant Cardone, Jordan Belfort and Chet Holmes. It has for sure helped me.

The reason I'm looking into Belfort's program is because what he did is similar to what I'm currently doing.

 

[JohnForte]

If I remember correctly from what I read and what my friends have told me the straight line persuasion technique is to minimize distractions. To focus on the sale and getting there in the shortest possible path. Not time, but path so you want to research the objections they would have and squash those so no barriers are in the way of the sale.

He also teaches tonality but again that something you can kinda learn on your own, just don't be a robot speaking.

Again if I remember correctly that is basically his core of the course.

 

[Not Most People]

I've read 'way of the wolf' and got some great insights from it.

Jordan Belfort, like many others out there, is a mixed bag. You can simply take the good parts and forget the rest. Same goes for Cardone, etc.

Having said that, I would look around some more before pulling the trigger. Most of these guys that sell training programs also have books, so I would read some more books before investing heavily in a course/program.

I like a lot of JB's stuff. Spin selling was also insightful. I've heard great things about Sandler's training systems but haven't gotten into yet.

The point is, check out a few different things and see what resonates and will be the best fit for your business.

Regardless of what you choose for sales, pair it with Chris Voss's teachings.

 

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[SEBASTlAN]

I've read his book and the straight line persuasion methodology.

IIRC, the basic premise is to line up the 3 T's, which is the 3 levels of trust.

The prospect must trust you.
The prospect must trust your company.
The prospect must trust your product.

Worth a read - probably what the sales training is about too, but a much more affordable way to learn it =)

 

[Andy Black]

It honestly doesn't feel like I'm selling anymore after implementing the tactics from these two.

Interesting. What’s been your main takeaways? What are you doing different after reading their books?

I’m repelled by even the idea of reading sales books. I just think they’ll mess with my mojo. Am I mistaken?

 

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[BizyDad]

I’m repelled by even the idea of reading sales books. I just think they’ll mess with my mojo. Am I mistaken?

Yes

if you were to read a sales book, you would take what you like that helps you, and you would leave the rest.

Nothing is going to mess with your mojo.

 

[Likwid24]

I’m repelled by even the idea of reading sales books. I just think they’ll mess with my mojo. Am I mistaken?

Everyone's different man. One thing I learned in life is that everyone isn't like me and I'm not like everyone. Some people are natural at sales. Some need help. Some people think they are a natural at sales but need lots of help but they are too ignorant to admit it.

To each his own.

It can never hurt to get better at any one subject. Always be learning.

 

[Andy Black]

My mojo was definitely messed with by listening to other people (who I paid to help me!). Smart people. Well meaning people. But they unintentionally gave me great sounding advice that took me away from finding what works best for me.

In some ways it’s the act of finding what works best for you that’s most beneficial.

I think we can spend too much time learning or following other people’s paths and drown out our own thoughts, causing us to lose our way.


Another coach gave me very different advice when I paid for a call with him. He said “You don’t need to be on any lists brother. All you need is within you.”

This was very liberating advice for me. He gave me the permission and confidence to be myself and do things my way. (Sad that I needed permission, but I suspect I’m not the only one.)

Now I think about it, he gave me some other good sales advice with an off-the-cuff comment of “You’re the type of person people want to buy from.” Oh... that’s interesting. People want to buy from me because of the type of person I am, not because of sales skills I have?


On another note, I don’t subscribe to always be learning. My goal isn’t to learn. It’s not even to be better at specific subjects or skills.

I’m good enough at Google Ads.

I’m good enough at writing.

I’m good enough at creating videos.

I’m good enough at sales.

I’ve no interest in getting better at any of the above.

My problem isn’t that I can’t sell, it’s that my offer and processes haven’t been refined enough so it sells itself.

I won’t read any sales books, not because I think I’m a natural salesman, but because I don’t want to be better salesman. I want to be a better business owner.


Another thing that would be a big no-no for me is the background and values of whoever I’m listening to.

“How you do anything is how you do everything.”

If someone’s moral compass is skew then obviously they can still give great advice. But if I’m learning from them then how do I know what’s good advice for *me*? Do they have my best interest at heart? Will I inadvertently pick up some mindset or belief that holds me back for years?


I’m super protective of my values, way of thinking, and way of doing things. That’s part of the reason I’m on an information diet, don’t go to events, and don’t want to be in any masterminds.




Hope that helps.

 

[Likwid24]

I’m in agreement with this one.

I’m a bit confused on if @Likwid24 are you trying to improve at prospecting (cold outreach) or later stage selling?

I'm trying to improve at all forms of Sales. I wont' be doing any cold calling. Mostly calls to warm leads and prospects in my own network. I need to get better at closing and handling objections.

 

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[BizyDad]

What are the objections you usually hear?

 

[TTG SS]

I'm currently reading: The Way Of The Wolf by JB. Good book for sure, maybe buy that first and then determine if you want to invest in his further trainings?

https://www.amazon.com/dp/1501164309/?tag=tff-amazonparser-20

 

[Thiago Machado]

Yeah, it's pretty sleazy.

Read Spin Selling and Take Sandler's Sales Training.

 

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[ZCP]

I'm trying to improve at all forms of Sales. I wont' be doing any cold calling. Mostly calls to warm leads and prospects in my own network. I need to get better at closing and handling objections.

zig ziglar

 

[Kevin88660]

That's because he still owes millions lol

He could be hiding his assets from his creditors.

I did buy Jordan’s book. Jordan does have a deep understanding of sales/business and developed a water tight sales strategy for himself.

His Core strategy is as follow.

-Run a marketing campaign to find out qualified prospects. Never talk to unqualified prospects.

-Key Objective of the sales appointment, close a small deal to prove performance so as to win a bigger deal in the future.
There was a youtube video of him convincing an Australian business owner to move part of his foreign currency account to the bank he works for and let then do the hedging for him. Prove to him how much the bank can make on a percentage basis for that small deal to earn credibility.

-Key style in sales presentation. Talk like an expert. Be an expert. Reaffirm the track record and branding of the product/service, the company and the salesperson. The logic is that, a prospect will often hesitates to put the money into something he doesn’t know well or fully trust. There is always a fear they they are presented with the good sides of a product or service by a salesperson only to be hunted by the bad sides in the future and regret about it. That is why people always say “let me think about it” to a logically good deal. That’s why it is important to stress on the track record of the company, product/services and the salesperson throughout the presentation multiple times before the objection and after the objection.

What are the short comings of such a system?

1) All systems start to cripple if they do not fit the actual sales scenario. If you study how Jordan trains sales force for business a lot is operating on the “street smart factors” relevant to the business rather than following his own system.

2) Demonstration effect is good if the product or service you are getting can be demonstrated. That is why Jordan focus on closing small deals to prove value. You can see that is how Jordan strategize for his sales coaching. He put in a lot of research and value into his book which is sold cheaply. This acts as a marketing tool for the more expensive premium training services that is offering elsewhere.

But if you are selling intangible financials like insurance it could be harder to use such a method.

Salesperson: “Hi Mr Client how do you feel about the insurance plan that You bought last year.?”

Mr Client: “ I paid for it. i didn't die or get disabled. It proves that it is a waste of money.”

In the above example it is better to do most of the sales education and consultation before closing anything. Don’t try to close a small deal in the first appointment and make the product sell itself. It is better to educate and explain through multiple appointments and close a big deal once the client is ready.

3)Consultative selling and talking like an expert will be good and sufficient, if that is what the client is expecting.

The reason why a customer buys through a salesperson (you) versus he making his own mind through his own research online or through product catalogue is that you are the expert who can add value and he can trust you as an honest advisor right? That is what most the “textbook says” and what sales people aspire to be. And therefore they hallucinate and hope for it and start to say rubbish like “we are not salespeople..we are not selling.. we are offering solutions...blabla despite the fact that the business demands them to sell, their sales contract demands them to sell and their renumeration package is 100 percent based on how much they sell.

The reality on the ground is the prospect, most of the time is not expecting a full-fledged consultation. Look if they are looking for consultations they will be paying for a consultant on a hourly basis. Most likely they did their preliminary research themselves and assume that they know the most (but really very little) about the business, and they expect to fill the missing information gap with a salesperson to just inform them if there are things they are missing out. If you look decent, and seem to know your stuff and can occasionally stroke his ego the deal is done.

 

[BizyDad]

The salesperson needs to be self aware enough to try out the tactics and back off the things that don't work for them.

Too many people read books and blindly apply things, and when it doesn't go well they blame themselves for sucking.

I've seen sales books definitely mess with people's mojo. I've literally seen salespeople go from top to shit because of that mindset.

Like @Likwid24 says, everyone is different. Try to just be yourself and take the pieces of these books/courses that play to your personality and strengths. There's definitely great nuggets in Jordan's courses, and others like him (Cardone, Holmes, etc.)

I have seen people try to be just like Jordan and implement everything he says in the program, and they crash and burn because his methods are for a very particular kind of sale and salesperson, imo.

Just like always be learning, always be experimenting, imo.

Agreed. Thanks for clarifying the point. I specifically meant nothing was going to mess with Andy's mojo...

 

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[Likwid24]

Yup. Like I said, to each his own. Thats whats working for you. If it works then great. Do what works for you.

 

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[Black_Dragon43]

Imo, Jordan's Straight Line Persuasion is too expensive compared to the value offered. You pretty much get a brain-dump of sales information, which is good information, but it's not very well organized and you don't really have any homework or ways to really get it into your system provided.

If you ask me Jordan does a far better job at being a marketer and salesman selling an expensive course. If you do buy it, you're likely to make more than you paid for it based on the info inside, but it's not the most efficient allocation of your money - there are better courses out there.

I'd recommend Tony Robbins' Mastering Influence in its place. At around 300 bucks it's significantly cheaper and goes over pretty much the same NLP techniques, but also has added homework to help you remember the concepts and tailor them to your own situation.

Funnily enough, 6-7 years ago, when I first heard about TFLF, Jordan's SLP course was frequently recommended around here for sales. Now, it's very rare to see it recommended as evidenced by this thread. The forum is lower on the sales/marketing type of entrepreneurs and greater on the producers at the moment.

 

[Black_Dragon43]

I feel like sales is at a turning point and old tactics are being thrown out the window. It honestly doesn't feel like I'm selling anymore after implementing the tactics from these two.

The thing with sales, marketing and persuasion more generally is that they are always changing. We'll never have a "final" way to sell that is the best. An important factor in selling is standing out - the moment everyone starts sending cute gifts along with their letters, etc. will be the moment when those tactics no longer work. Suddenly the straight forward approach "I wanna sell you this pen" will be back in vogue and you'll appear honest and straightforward by adopting it, as opposed to masking your intentions. At the moment, sending the cute gifts, empathy driven, etc. makes you stand out because so few sales people do it and it's a more human way focused on building relationships. It gives you credibility because you're not just trying to make a buck. But as soon as the people who ARE just trying to make a buck start copying these approaches, that will be the end of them.

 

[Black_Dragon43]

The old way of looking at customers is they are all dumb sheep who need to be herded down a "straight line" and to try and one call close every single person you get on the phone with.

Yes, it's true that for the most part sales training adopted this line of thinking.

However, the best salesman in the past 100 years had adopted the empathy mindset. Take a look at Joe Girard the Guinness World Record holder for sales (auto sales) who treated his customers like friends and hired assistants to make sure that each customer was contacted on their birthday and would receive greeting cards on other important dates. He was born in 1928 (so he's 91 years old now) - definitely not new school.

Or David Ogilvy who said things like "if you can’t make a lady laugh, you can’t make her buy". Also old-school.

Or even Dale Carnegie with his book How To Make Friends And Influence People - also empathy based.

The mindset was never "I wanna sell you this pen", in fact, the quote is "Sell me this pen." Which is a command, and how the entire old-school sales process is. Controlling the convo and customer and hardline the sale.

I agree that this is generally how sales was taught because it was effective. Customers had not yet caught up with the tricks, that's why it worked. Also, tips and tricks can be taught easily, but teaching empathy is a lot harder.

Modern companies that are EQ focused and customer-driven have changed customer buying habits permanently.

That's true, I think customers are also a lot smarter today than they were in the past. Today you are bombarded with sales messages, so you have a lot more experience with them, and a healthy skepticism. In the past, sales messages were fewer.

The slime-balls might try to emulate EQ but the customer will be able to sniff out the intent.

Using empathy is counterintuitive to the mindset of someone who only cares about the close.

Empathy is a mindset, not another sales tactic and when you get it wrong, it goes very wrong. It's not a masked intent, it's the entire process.

I can't debate you on that. Empathy is here to stay, and it was always here to stay as an attitude. What will change though is the tactics. Take mirroring. Both Josh and Chris Voss advocate it. Imagine a world in which every salesman, everywhere you go, is mirroring your language back to you to get you to talk more. You'll catch up to it, and sooner or later you'll think about it as actually some disingenuous way to get you to buy something. Sure, not everyone will be disingenuous, but more and more of the empathy-driven people will get caught along with the others when using this tactic.

Empathy is an attitude, so people who have this attitude will just change their tactics to adjust to the market. This has always happened and will keep happening.

 

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[Kevin88660]

Jordan Belford way of presentation, if executed elegantly is a very refined presentation that can impress your client. But I do see two problems for my experience.

1) Effort. Belford’s styles a high level of energy and very quick on the spot reaction towards clients’ body language and verbal response. It is constantly trying to be sincerely reasonably without being too pushy. It is technically elegant. But is it worth the effort? Most sales appointment do not lead to sales and factors outside of your control are mainly at play. You might be better off just be straight to the point without trying so hard.

2) The issue is that the style of trying to hard can backfire. Jordan’s style, from the customers pov is that someone will love him and someone else will dislike him. If someone who is looking to be impressed by an eloquent expert will be impressed. But a lot of times speaking to my experience from a sales person customer are not looking to be impressed. Customers did their own preliminary research and are often looking for someone “down to earth” and reliable. They are not looking for a shining star but they are looking for someone who looks like they are not going to let him down or rip him off. Think of the honest quiet boy in your high school class who is not the smartest or most popular but the least likely to lie or steal. If you do the JB system you are at risk of being seen as shrewd at at worse slimy. It just raises people’s guard.