I finally understand David Goggins, Jocko, Cameron Haynes etc.. #75Hard

[Antifragile]

I haven't been able to figure out "WHY" These guys put themselves through such suffering on a daily basis... But I think I do now.

David Goggins, Jocko Wilnik, Cameron Haynes, Andy Friscilla all have something in common, they're sadistic in the suffering they put themselves through.. Yet love it, crave it, and push even harder the next day.. Why do they do this?

Between going back to working out just after shoulder surgery, running a 200mile foot race, waking up at 4am, and hitting weights EVERY DAY.. Running up Mountains EVERYDAY, finishing the race despite major injuries, raw skin, and hurricanes.. These guys are ultra performers, yet seemingly "normal" dudes.

I thought it was a quest to be "Tough or manly as possible" or maybe "To be stronger than anyone else" or maybe they just get addicted to the endorphin rush..

I started #75Hard a mental toughness program that utilizes physical daily challenges to get you there, I was on Day 16 (Wake up 4:30am, walk 2 miles, work.. Hit the gym, then home.. While making sure I read 10 pages of a book, stick to a diet, and finish my gallon of water) EVERYDAY. Then I injured my knee, got the flu, and my wife went into labor.. No joke! I relented and took off 2 weeks to care for her and my new daughter... What I realized is I felt like crap. I was overjoyed for my daughter but physically I felt like crap, why? Because I wasn't doing anything HARD...

So back on the train, on Day 5 now, and it clicked with me this morning on my daily 5am 2 mile walk.. As the snow was falling, and was sleep-deprived.. I realised the truth, ONLY HARD THINGS MAKE YOU FEEL GOOD AFTER.

This is why I believe these guys do the things they do, because they feel awesome after! Physically stronger, breaking mental barriers, just being proud of yourself, and having the integrity to do the workout fully even though no one is watching..

NOTHING FUN OR EASY MAKES YOU FEEL GOOD AFTER..

Drinking, eating cake, Masturbating, Driving a Lambo, Watching TV... All those things feel good at the moment, but ALL make you feel bad AFTER you stop.

Going to church, real sex, working out, learning, running towards fear, pain, living/eating healthy, working on your Fastlane, and Finishing a major project.. These things suck at first, but you will feel AWESOME after!

In short, good/fun/easy things will leave you feeling depressed after.. (To various degrees)

But painful, scary, hard, tiring, draining things WILL make you feel awesome after, and that feeling of accomplishment, pride, energy, next level etc... Stays for a while. At least until tomorrow, when you grind it into fruition again

Survival -> Status -> Freedom -> Purpose​

I tried to explain my thinking in this thread.

GOLD! - ASSERTION - MINDSET - Tell us, who are you?

There is a scene in the movie ”Anger Management” where Dave is asked a simple question: “tell us, who are you?” As you can see it evolved quickly into a comical moment where Dave flipped out. Clearly it’s not a simple question! That question is the most important one for every one of us to...

www.thefastlaneforum.com

Whenever I hear people saying "while others commute to work I am taking my Ferrari to grab a coffee", they are still only at "Status". There is not only nothing wrong with it, I applaud people who moved on from mediocrity to this level.

It never ceases to be a part of you anyway, it just changes. I am still on the hunt for collectable 911s (similar to @Fox) but I don't have a warehouse "man-cave" set up yet, so it'll all have to wait and it causes me no pain to wait. That deep desire for a car drops in intensity the minute you know you can get one! Doesn't go anywhere, just isn't a priority.

The Freedom part is important, that's the f-u money where you know that short of being very stupid, you'll be ok without having to do things for money.

Where does Goggins come into this? To get past survival, we need to do extraordinary things. To live like the 1%... you know, can't be the 99%. But our minds stand in the way. We seek comfort, way too much of it. It's a disgrace that people are literally eating themselves into obesity and then killing themselves out of depression at staggering rates. Too much comfort.

I butt heads with @MTF on this a lot. In fact, I think our relationship (that used to have hints of friendship) broke right after the discomfort club he used to run ceased to exist.

The point is this: be true to who you are. You aren't Goggins, don't try to do his best, do YOUR best. When you think you've hit a wall, why not try to push past it? Worst case, you get hurt a little - you aren't likely to die or permanently damage yourself, your brain will likely stop you miles before then. But some people want to be imitators and want to do Goggin's events, not their own version of Goggin's events.

And the habits you build from doing that will serve you outside of athletics. Business too needs that discipline!

YOU be YOU. Let Goggins be him. Take what works from him mindset and that's it. He's a force for good for that reason.

That's the hill I'll die on this forum. There is a real comfort crisis in North America (and maybe Europe) these days. We need to manufacture discomfort to grow as people.

Your life will be hard regardless, so why not channel the hard to the right kind of hard.

 

[EngineerThis]

I haven't been able to figure out "WHY" These guys put themselves through such suffering on a daily basis... But I think I do now.

David Goggins, Jocko Wilnik, Cameron Haynes, Andy Friscilla all have something in common, they're sadistic in the suffering they put themselves through.. Yet love it, crave it, and push even harder the next day.. Why do they do this?

Between going back to working out just after shoulder surgery, running a 200mile foot race, waking up at 4am, and hitting weights EVERY DAY.. Running up Mountains EVERYDAY, finishing the race despite major injuries, raw skin, and hurricanes.. These guys are ultra performers, yet seemingly "normal" dudes.

I thought it was a quest to be "Tough or manly as possible" or maybe "To be stronger than anyone else" or maybe they just get addicted to the endorphin rush..

I started #75Hard a mental toughness program that utilizes physical daily challenges to get you there, I was on Day 16 (Wake up 4:30am, walk 2 miles, work.. Hit the gym, then home.. While making sure I read 10 pages of a book, stick to a diet, and finish my gallon of water) EVERYDAY. Then I injured my knee, got the flu, and my wife went into labor.. No joke! I relented and took off 2 weeks to care for her and my new daughter... What I realized is I felt like crap. I was overjoyed for my daughter but physically I felt like crap, why? Because I wasn't doing anything HARD...

So back on the train, on Day 5 now, and it clicked with me this morning on my daily 5am 2 mile walk.. As the snow was falling, and was sleep-deprived.. I realised the truth, ONLY HARD THINGS MAKE YOU FEEL GOOD AFTER.

This is why I believe these guys do the things they do, because they feel awesome after! Physically stronger, breaking mental barriers, just being proud of yourself, and having the integrity to do the workout fully even though no one is watching..

NOTHING FUN OR EASY MAKES YOU FEEL GOOD AFTER..

Drinking, eating cake, Masturbating, Driving a Lambo, Watching TV... All those things feel good at the moment, but ALL make you feel bad AFTER you stop.

Going to church, real sex, working out, learning, running towards fear, pain, living/eating healthy, working on your Fastlane, and Finishing a major project.. These things suck at first, but you will feel AWESOME after!

In short, good/fun/easy things will leave you feeling depressed after.. (To various degrees)

But painful, scary, hard, tiring, draining things WILL make you feel awesome after, and that feeling of accomplishment, pride, energy, next level etc... Stays for a while. At least until tomorrow, when you grind it into fruition again

 

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[Fox]

Drinking, eating cake, Masturbating, Driving a Lambo, Watching TV... All those things feel good at the moment, but ALL make you feel bad AFTER you stop.

Kinda a big difference between driving your Lambo and jerking off with your cake.

Look, enjoying things you earned does feel good.

I got a '74 911 last year and that thing is so fun to drive.

Zero regrets after taking it for a spin - it only gets me more hungry to do bigger things.

@Ravens_Shadow is in his thread loving life with a few hours ripping around in his classic Ferrari.



I kinda get your point in this thread but you are throwing the baby (and everything else) out with the bathwater.

 

[Ravens_Shadow]

I put myself through suffering so that I can be free.

 

[MTF]

Have you completed #75Hard? It absolutely is a program for “normal” people to build that mindset. The proof is staggering.

I tried it when I was into that stuff and stopped it because it made me less "hard" instead of more.

The arbitrary rules were completely idiotic. You can complete a day by doing a 45-minute gym session and a 45-minute walk but when I had 2 hours of MMA (much harder than weightlifting or walking) or a 3-hour swimming session (much more exhausting) that only counted for one workout and I had to do one on top of that. A professional athlete wouldn't complete a day of 75 Hard because one 8-hour bike ride would count only for one workout and be less valid than two 45-minute bike rides lol.

And no dude, you aren't going to build that mindset by doing some silly things like taking cold showers or running. You'll get stronger, for sure, but you'd still be a regular human being.

You need to understand that most of these dudes are masochistic and have completely f*cked up brains.

They can't walk, get a surgery, are told to not move for 3 months or they can become disabled for life and yet they still go out and run the next day, completely disrespecting the work the surgeons put into their bodies.

Or they're dealing with severe PTSD and they deal with it by tattooing their bodies so they can use physical pain to counter mental pain.

Or they're completely fine risking or losing their lives and leaving their spouses or children to fend for themselves just for an ego trip.

I understand how appealing this philosophy is to young impressionable dudes who lack a strong father figure in life. But you aren't strong because you run with injured legs. You're just being stupid.

Silly feats of "toughness" aside, OF COURSE it's satisfying to do hard things. I've done a lot of that stuff and agree with that.

But that's besides the point. I'm not talking about pursuing big goals in life and voluntarily exposing yourself to useful, context-specific suffering. I'm talking about being impressed by guys who are very, very broken inside. They are no role models.

 

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[MTF]

I haven't been able to figure out "WHY" These guys put themselves through such suffering on a daily basis... But I think I do now.

No, you don't know. Most of these guys have f*cked up psyches after a shitty childhood and then serving in special forces and having equally shitty experiences there.

Broken people are often drawn to this type of work, as if by becoming badass they can finally face their (often long dead) bully from their childhood (often a family member, dad or stepdad).

The shit they've gone through well before becoming gurus is the most important thing that discerns them. An everyday person will never get anywhere close to the mindset of those guys and I don't think any sane person wants to.

I've read multiple books written by guys like them. For a period of time I was super impressed with them until I realized it was my own coping mechanism, too.

I'm NOT saying there's no value in voluntary suffering. There is. But don't fool yourself you can understand the ridiculously f*cked up mentality these guys have.

I agree with @Fox.

 

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[Kak]

I like doing hard things. A challenge inspires me. In business mostly, but more recently in athleticism. Most people die having lived a life well short of what they were actually capable of.

I'm more on the Goggins side of things. Push the limits. See what you are truly capable of in business and in life. I don't want to live my life not becoming all I was made to be. That means a proper combination and order of priorities. I don't want to waste potential. I also don't see the point in needlessly injuring myself, that's well past the point of diminishing returns.

Comfort ironiclly breeds uncomfortable levels of depression and anxiety. It's a luxury to be depressed and anxious. Find more important things to do.

 

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[Johnny boy]

Drinking, eating cake, Masturbating, Driving a Lambo,

Have you tried doing them at the same time or should I make another post in the lifestyle thread?

 

[MTF]

Have you figured out how to have a "winning mindset" without using fuel of childhood Trauma etc.?
I mean how to be a high Performer when your have "nobody to prove wrong" and nobody to beat. If I look at top Performers Like Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant they both had the need to crush others to the Point that nothing Else mattered in there lifes...

A winning mindset based on empathy seems more attractive to me...

My core philosophy these days draws heavily from freediving. It's a unique sport in that you can only be the best by being the most relaxed and the most detached from the outcome. The top guys are all super chill and don't seem to be driven by proving others wrong but simply are driven by exploration.

Maybe you can learn something from this talk by one of the best freedivers in the world, William Trubridge:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MZetpFw7qY


Alexey Molchanov is currently the best freediver and he's super, super chill, too (one of his nicknames is "the Golden Retriever" lol). Here's an interview with him:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHtqeacA3ws


These are the people I get inspired by now. They seem to be happy, peaceful, and drama-free, yet are still top performers.

 

[Black_Dragon43]

I will say this: everythig you talked about has nothing to do with business success, and it’s merely a distraction.

You cannot train yourself to be successful in business by being successful at something else — one would think that would be intuitively obvious.

If business success is what you’re after, it’s easy — work on your business 24/7. I’ve done that for years. You will be successful. And yes, the process will be very painful too. Especially once your business starts getting bigger I guarantee that you’ll ALWAYS find something else to do.

There almost never is a time when I can say I’ve got nothing to do. It’s always that there is too much to do. The bigger you get, the more options you have.

Most people when they get bigger lose their drive. Then they chill and “pretend” to work hard. But they really don’t.

Get clear on why you’re doing #75HARD — if your goal is business success, then drop it, and focus on business. You don’t need any mindset to be successful in business.

You will find rich people who are extremely petty and jealous. Some who lack confidence. Others who have no discipline whatsoever. Because all those traits are not causative of success in business in any way.

 

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[Black_Dragon43]

I actually have to agree with this, some of us aren't born/raised/equipped to pull it off. Add personalities or other things like ADHD, and just "getting up and doing what we should" while still trying to do everything else is not something everyone is equipped to or prepared to manage.

That's true – but nobody is born ready to pull it off. We all have our own strengths and weakness, and we need to figure out our own path, not listen to a guru.

Put it like this, so long as you're listening to a guru, no matter how much you rise, you'll always stay in that guru's shadow. To become greater than the guru, you can have no master, no leader aside from yourself.

So listening to a guru is putting a bandaid on the problem of figuring out your own path. It's looking to outsource success to someone else. It's giving up control, which is anti-fastlane in my view.

And saying "I don't know what to work on my business" is an excuse. The first thing to work on is always getting money. Or putting together the things that will enable you to get money. Sales presentations, ideas, and so on. Marketing – figuring out who your buyer is, what their needs are, what they look for in terms of credibility, etc.

Where does Goggins come into this? To get past survival, we need to do extraordinary things. To live like the 1%... you know, can't be the 99%. But our minds stand in the way. We seek comfort, way too much of it. It's a disgrace that people are literally eating themselves into obesity and then killing themselves out of depression at staggering rates. Too much comfort.

What's extraordinary? I am extraordinary in some things but very ordinary and substandard in others. My diet is shit, I eat all the sugars all the time. Every day I have cake and sweets and ice cream. Because I don't really care about my diet that much, it's not a priority. Some people with my diet would be like "ughh but I feel like shit, bla bla bla" – work anyway!

It is now 2 AM and I am just coming off creating a new automated billing system for our company. And in fact, before I go to sleep, I'll go eat some more cake and ice cream

I realize this though – if I tried to be out of my comfort zone in all areas of life, I would fail in all areas. So I stay deep into my comfort zone in most areas of my life, so I can get out of my comfort zone in the few that matter to me at the moment. You need to learn to conserve your energy. I put a lot of energy in my business because I conserve a lot of energy in the rest of my life. I wouldn't be able to do it otherwise.

In addition, I'd say that working on my business is actually my comfort zone. Getting a job would be F*cking scary for me by comparison. I never held a job. Going in for an interview, being judged, taking a test – ... gives me the chills even thinking about it.

 

[Xeon]

David Goggins, Jocko Wilnik, Cameron Haynes, Andy Friscilla all have something in common

Yes, they all have one thing in common besides their psychotic/PTSD-infused experiences and/or traumatic childhood, and that's the fact that they're all selling you something : Courses, masterclasses, merch, public speaking bookings.

These guys know that the eCommerce/get-rich-quick guru marketing angle is overused, so they crafted their brand based on the go-hard-or-go-home identity. Military elements, oozing testosterone (yes, young aspiring men get wet at this word), the no-nonsense traditional/conservative tough guy vibe. Guess what? Their target demographic is the exact same audience as Black Riffle Coffee lol.

They try to out-tough one another : if Goggins is running a full marathon in Ohio while there's a Cat5 hurricane, the rest of his industry counterparts will one-up him by doing one-arm muscle-up on an erupting volcano, or free-falling from a plane (without any skydiving gear or parachute) into the Atlantic. There'll be a camera crew filming them (yes, always has to be one), so that their sheep can lap it up and get more drawn to the brand they're crafting. The sales funnel!

They need to do this; that's what their entire branding is based around. Create a tribe, build a community, sell your gear and courses to them. People aren't attracted to normal stuff, they want something crazy and extreme!

The 'Shop' section of their individual websites just prove this, and I LOLed at Andy Frisella's Shop section on his website: it even has the classic shot showing him in a suit ("I'm an entrepreneur who made it") and that Porsche behind him ("Look at how my Porsche pulls girls").

Meanwhile, on Cameron's home page, the first thing he does is to sell his merch, everything from caps to air fresheners lol Thanks for the laugh, Cameron!

Exact same old marketing **** like the gurus of the early 2010s but with a different angle, targeted at a different demographic, but still the same.

 

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[MitchC]

I will say this: everythig you talked about has nothing to do with business success, and it’s merely a distraction.

You cannot train yourself to be successful in business by being successful at something else — one would think that would be intuitively obvious.

If business success is what you’re after, it’s easy — work on your business 24/7. I’ve done that for years. You will be successful. And yes, the process will be very painful too. Especially once your business starts getting bigger I guarantee that you’ll ALWAYS find something else to do.

There almost never is a time when I can say I’ve got nothing to do. It’s always that there is too much to do. The bigger you get, the more options you have.

Most people when they get bigger lose their drive. Then they chill and “pretend” to work hard. But they really don’t.

Get clear on why you’re doing #75HARD — if your goal is business success, then drop it, and focus on business. You don’t need any mindset to be successful in business.

You will find rich people who are extremely petty and jealous. Some who lack confidence. Others who have no discipline whatsoever. Because all those traits are not causative of success in business in any way.

I like Alex Hormozi when he talks about his morning routine

I wake up, have a coffee, and get to work

 

[HoneyBadger302]

I understand what you saying but, many people.. Myself included, flat out don't know how to just work on my business all day.. I realize that sounds funny but it's true! I wasn't raised with discipline or self-control, and public school/corporate jobs beat me into submission.. My work ethic is great but my Focus is nonexistent, and my craving for distraction and pleasure is strong. This is why I started on this program to build mental toughness, learn to prioritize, learn to grind, and learn to say no.. And I'll tell you what, it works!!! Never in my life have I felt this strong and focused. It is apparent in my business too, my effort and creativity has been 10x what it was before. Again I know it sounds funny, but I did not know how to work on my business all day before I started this. That's exactly why Andy created this program, which is 100% free mind you.

I actually have to agree with this, some of us aren't born/raised/equipped to pull it off. Add personalities or other things like ADHD, and just "getting up and doing what we should" while still trying to do everything else is not something everyone is equipped to or prepared to manage.

I needed the structure of someone else's program or challenge, and the physical is an easy way to help people develop that. In this particular case, Andy had his businesses rolling before he came up with 75, he didn't need it to build a business, he needed it to keep his own health a priority, so came up with his own little challenge, and when he shared it, well, others jumped on the bandwagon because they needed to learn more self discipline than they had as well.

No, it's not for everyone, and the cult following is sometimes hilarious, but to throw the entire premise out because "you" didn't need it is narrow minded imo.

Between several rounds of this, and my power list, I feel equipped to take things into my own hands and keep running with it, but I can promise I NEVER would have figured it out on my own, or learned as much about myself and how to deal with my own short comings, what does and doesn't work for me in such a limited amount of time without those two things.

I would never have read MJ's book if it wasn't for 75 either..... because I always viewed self development books as frufru bs and never went to that book section to begin with....

It may not be for "you," and "you" may not need it, but it has definitely helped some of us figure some stuff out other things simply didn't drill into our heads the same way.

 

[Kak]

So listening to a guru is putting a bandaid on the problem of figuring out your own path. It's looking to outsource success to someone else. It's giving up control, which is anti-fastlane in my view.

Yes. I call this "boss seeking behavior."

Entrepreneurs aren't really entrepreneurial if they insist on a crutch of someone smarter or better than them to hold their hands at all times.

Become the master of your domain.

In business, I don't go looking for someone to lead me. I'll bounce things off of others from time to time, but each decision is ultimately is left to me.

I'll never be the best or even a good runner. That's not the point. The point is beating myself, so I'm happy to cede some of my mindset and strategy to gurus or my coach on this endeavor.

 

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[HoneyBadger302]

So listening to a guru is putting a bandaid on the problem of figuring out your own path. It's looking to outsource success to someone else. It's giving up control, which is anti-fastlane in my view.

This absolutely does not compute with me - you're here, in a "guru"'s forum, sharing and receiving advice, yet by your own admittance, no one should ever need any direction from anyone else ever? If that's the case, why are you here?

By your statements, scrap any and all education of any variety, because everyone can just "figure it out" perfectly fine on their own. Hint: not true, because if it was, the world would look VERY different than it does.

I have not given anyone else control, nor have they sought or taken any control. No one will save me if I fail (nor has anyone in the past), no one is by my side should I succeed. Using some of their advice, or tips or tricks from those who've gone before is not "giving up control" or worshiping someone else and riding their coattails. It's choosing things that also work for me, without having to learn every single lesson in life the hard way. Personally, if you don't need to learn every single lesson yourself, that's a good thing, not a bad thing.

Not everyone comes from the same background, or was exposed to the same ideas at a younger age. I'm all for finding out what works for you, but if someone else has done some of the legwork, and you can take a tried and true method and apply it to your situation, I do not see why that is a bad thing.

Guess our traction in life has varied wildly, and we probably won't agree on this matter. I'm perfectly okay with that, don't feel a need to change your mind, but you're definitely not going to change mine lol.

 

[NervesOfSteel]

This is a lesson from Adam Smith's principle of economics: It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker David Goggins, Jocko, Cameron Haynes, that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own self-interest. sales funnel.

There's a saying that I heard somewhere a soon-to-be retired Navy Seal has book contract waiting for them.

DISCLAIMER: I am not downplaying their achievements. They have accomplished great things and managed to channelled (not conquered) their demons. How many psychopaths were in the special-forces and turned out to be serial-killer after leaving the military? I called these people mini-Goggins.

There could be more mini-Goggins out there than the real Goggins himself.

Why Goggins? What makes him special?

His thought process is available online for free. He's not of the type: Buy My Book, I need your money to be a millionaire because that's my only goal, blah blah guru!

He saved my life, twice, without asking for a penny!

2020, Covid .. I was in ICU .. a Powerlifter with a boastful pair of legs .. 3 weeks of ICU .. eats muscle so much that I was reduced to a crawler, a wheelchair-bound victim of hospitalization.

The loss in business due to factory shutdown because of lockdown, loss of health due to lockdown, Doctors bewildered .. unable to handle the post-COVID traumas...

Goggins came to my mind... "When your body says stop .. you're at only 40% of your capacity"...

I pushed myself beyond my limits...

abandoned the wheelchair... I crawled, then I walked .. then I jogged .. now I lift half the weight I used to...

I read about his 4x4x48 principle .. and it stuck with me... I managed my working capacity vs rest time as per his rule.

I saved my business, I thrived, and I started 2 more endeavors.. none at a loss...

He sold me nothing!

Yet he saved me twice!

He was a Navy seal anyway, does this guy need our certificate?

I would have bought his merch if his designs were good! His designs don't sync with what he says.

 

[heavy_industry]

Pain and pleasure are two sides of the same coin.

Both are modulated by the same underlying neurological circuit - the dopamine reward system.

• Pursue difficulty and you will be rewarded with joy.
• Pursue only pleasure and you will, eventually, lose your willingness to live.

This is not any life philosophy or call to "mental toughness", it's the basic reality of our biology.

We have evolved to endure pain and hardship.

That's how we, a primitive species of apes, went from sticks and stones to conquering the entire planet and shooting F*cking rockets into space.

We are inherently motivated by difficulty.

This is one of our most fundamental psychological needs.

The comfort crisis of the Western world mentioned by @Antifragile and @Kak is a very real thing.

 

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[MitchC]

@MTF you’ve done a complete 180 and sound like you are about to launch a comfort club newsletter I love it

I have a friend who’s doing things your way and believe me I’d take his life over Andy’s or Goggins. People forget why we are doing this sometimes.

I did 75 hard and failed on day 45 because I forgot to take a photo because I decided not to use my phone that night. It was the most miserable, unhealthy and unproductive time in my life.

 

[PureA]

I think a lot of these guys (goggins specifically) get celebrated for a socially acceptable form of 'trauma expression'.

(not to knock Goggins, he has my respect)

I say this as someone who hasn't missed a day of gym in 13 years and eats perfectly 99.9% of the time. But you know what? It's not discipline, it's a reliable way to get out of my noisy overactive mind and force focus onto my body.

From the outside it looks like discipline, truly it's a coping mechanism.

You get to where you want to go, by doing the thing that gets you closer to your goal (even when you don't feel like it).

It can turn into a lot of noise, trying to 'stay hard' - cardio, lifting, sauna, meditation, ice plunge etc (all of which I love).

There are a few actions each day that have a disproportionate effect on you reaching your goals, focus there. Make that your hard thing, and I'd bet life would bring a lot more fulfilment over the long run.

 

[EngineerThis]

You are perfect, but you can always be better, do better, and love better.

This has always been my mantra, but recently I realized how much joy comes from crushing fears and barriers you "Think" are surrounding you. That's all I meant when I created this post

 

[tomzestatlu]

No, you don't know. Most of these guys have f*cked up psyches after a shitty childhood and then serving in special forces and having equally shitty experiences there.

Broken people are often drawn to this type of work, as if by becoming badass they can finally face their (often long dead) bully from their childhood (often a family member, dad or stepdad).

The shit they've gone through well before becoming gurus is the most important thing that discerns them. An everyday person will never get anywhere close to the mindset of those guys and I don't think any sane person wants to.

I've read multiple books written by guys like them. For a period of time I was super impressed with them until I realized it was my own coping mechanism, too.

I'm NOT saying there's no value in voluntary suffering. There is. But don't fool yourself you can understand the ridiculously f*cked up mentality these guys have.

I agree with @Fox.

You´ve made me think about some of your points and I appreciate your perspective.
When I read headline and main post of this thread, I was like "Oh yes" and then I read through both of your posts and I am more like "Oh wait".

Of course I read books from Goggins or Jocko even though it was along the journey. The journey wasn´t ignited by any external figure, I guess.

First of all, I don´t think that any person could live Goggins life just by power of the will. It takes really serious trauma. Secondly, I don´t think that challenges as 75 hard necesarilly change a person. Why? No matter what you go through, you can always easily slip into being soft or lazy. There are so many people who always point at their previous accomplishments, especially physical. The truth is that the only thing that matters is who they are right now.
And that´s why David Goggins is so phenomenal. He knows he has to prove himself every single day until he´s dead. If someone of you complete 75 hard this year or 365 hard, nobody would care about it in 10 years, because it won´t matter. The only thing that will matter life-time is putting yourself into suffering every single that and that´s extremely scary and fascinating at the same time.

Take a look at Silvester Stallone or Arnold Schwarzeneger. They probably would be appreciated even if they looked like average men in their 70s, but I think that what´s so fascinating about their story is the fact that they are still living it with no excuses.
And they both fuel it with their childhood trauma.

I can´t post online about exact steps I took in my past, but they were definitely not "what-would-average-guy-do". And I came to a point, where I understand that putting yourself voluntarily into suffering is very healthy, but at the same time I understand that there´s more to life than endless suffering until the day I die. At least I think that I understand it.
On the other hand, I look back to those days few years ago and I´m totally drawn to them. And not in the meaning like being proud of what I´ve gone through or feeling strong. I wish I had more grit to overcome things others did and I didn´t. I only see mountains I haven´t conquered and not those I have.

And most importantly ... even though I hate being in the moment of suffering, I realized that suffering is the only moment when I feel really alive.
If you think about it, most people go through their days without noticing it´s happening. They just exist. Even during those moments that should bring joy. It´s very difficult to really feel every second. The only situation when you actually feel every second is when you immerse in deep suffering. And that equals feeling alive.

I´m not really sure where I am heading with this post. But I realize that my life feels so empty right now in comparison to those days when I lived to prove myself to me every day (by crushing myself).
And I am not saying I am lazy or something right now. I am just living more normal balanced life with other things on my mind than just crushing myself physically like I hate the person I am.

 

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[HoneyBadger302]

I've done 75 Hard multiple times, and in 2023 started a "Live Hard" year.

A week ago, halfway through the final phase (Phase 3), I decided to quit. Not a "fail" - I didn't miss any tasks, I didn't get overwhelmed with life and not be able to complete my day - I just realized, even that close to the finish line, that I was just checking off boxes for things that were doing me NO benefit at this point. For those who aren't aware, Phase 3 contains a variety of additional tasks to the usual 5 items in 75.

Checking off those boxes was pulling my attention and energy away from things that really DID matter in my life.

I saw it more as a "graduation" than quitting though. For me, I've gained plenty in the program - realizing that not getting outside even in crappy weather was just an excuse; learning to say "no" and stand by my choices even with tons of pressure from family, friends, etc to break my resolve; learned that my commitment to my choices could also bring better people into my circle who are also pushing towards their goals; I learned what I do - and don't - need at this point in my life; I learned how I could fall off the wagon around my own goals when my focus was not on MY goals....

So, I quit on day 16 of Phase 3. I set up my own Habits Tracker for the items I feel are important for me to keep up (personalized), and I keep up my daily Power List, and feel like I don't need to follow these other random programs to set my goals and stick to them anymore.

I like a fair bit of what Andy has to say, and some of his advice has literally changed my life - and I have some serious issues with some of his perspectives (especially as a woman). I like a lot of what Jocko and them have to share as well, but I'm not out here to purposefully beat up my body more than I already have/may through things I love to do, but I also know we can do more than we often think we can if we put our mind to it.

I'm weirdly proud of the fact that the program led me to feeling strong enough to call it quits that close to the end, and have zero regrets and would defend my choice to Andy's face if I had to lol. But, ultimately, I think that's really what it should be about....

 

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[Subsonic]

I haven't been able to figure out "WHY" These guys put themselves through such suffering on a daily basis... But I think I do now.

David Goggins, Jocko Wilnik, Cameron Haynes, Andy Friscilla all have something in common, they're sadistic in the suffering they put themselves through.. Yet love it, crave it, and push even harder the next day.. Why do they do this?

Between going back to working out just after shoulder surgery, running a 200mile foot race, waking up at 4am, and hitting weights EVERY DAY.. Running up Mountains EVERYDAY, finishing the race despite major injuries, raw skin, and hurricanes.. These guys are ultra performers, yet seemingly "normal" dudes.

I thought it was a quest to be "Tough or manly as possible" or maybe "To be stronger than anyone else" or maybe they just get addicted to the endorphin rush..

I started #75Hard a mental toughness program that utilizes physical daily challenges to get you there, I was on Day 16 (Wake up 4:30am, walk 2 miles, work.. Hit the gym, then home.. While making sure I read 10 pages of a book, stick to a diet, and finish my gallon of water) EVERYDAY. Then I injured my knee, got the flu, and my wife went into labor.. No joke! I relented and took off 2 weeks to care for her and my new daughter... What I realized is I felt like crap. I was overjoyed for my daughter but physically I felt like crap, why? Because I wasn't doing anything HARD...

So back on the train, on Day 5 now, and it clicked with me this morning on my daily 5am 2 mile walk.. As the snow was falling, and was sleep-deprived.. I realised the truth, ONLY HARD THINGS MAKE YOU FEEL GOOD AFTER.

This is why I believe these guys do the things they do, because they feel awesome after! Physically stronger, breaking mental barriers, just being proud of yourself, and having the integrity to do the workout fully even though no one is watching..

NOTHING FUN OR EASY MAKES YOU FEEL GOOD AFTER..

Drinking, eating cake, Masturbating, Driving a Lambo, Watching TV... All those things feel good at the moment, but ALL make you feel bad AFTER you stop.

Going to church, real sex, working out, learning, running towards fear, pain, living/eating healthy, working on your Fastlane, and Finishing a major project.. These things suck at first, but you will feel AWESOME after!

In short, good/fun/easy things will leave you feeling depressed after.. (To various degrees)

But painful, scary, hard, tiring, draining things WILL make you feel awesome after, and that feeling of accomplishment, pride, energy, next level etc... Stays for a while. At least until tomorrow, when you grind it into fruition again

For a time I felt that 75 hard was too easy but I think sticking with it for the whole time will do something great for me.

I've been too easy on myself for some time now and it's about time for a challenge.
Thank you for writing this post.

 

[Bounce Back]

I agree wholly that the feeling of accomplishment brings joy and you can't trick your brain into thinking fake things can take that place. But accomplishment can vary from person to person - for some it can be simply holding your tongue when you normally would've said something rude for others it can be climbing Mt. Everest.

 

[Panos Daras]

Is there any reading material or resources around this sort of philosophy? Elite Performance centered around the concept of doing it for yourself/internal rather than for others/external.

The inner game of tennis. An absolutely must read book.

 

[EngineerThis]

That's true – but nobody is born ready to pull it off. We all have our own strengths and weakness, and we need to figure out our own path, not listen to a guru.

Put it like this, so long as you're listening to a guru, no matter how much you rise, you'll always stay in that guru's shadow. To become greater than the guru, you can have no master, no leader aside from yourself.

So listening to a guru is putting a bandaid on the problem of figuring out your own path. It's looking to outsource success to someone else. It's giving up control, which is anti-fastlane in my view.

And saying "I don't know what to work on my business" is an excuse. The first thing to work on is always getting money. Or putting together the things that will enable you to get money. Sales presentations, ideas, and so on. Marketing – figuring out who your buyer is, what their needs are, what they look for in terms of credibility, etc.


What's extraordinary? I am extraordinary in some things but very ordinary and substandard in others. My diet is shit, I eat all the sugars all the time. Every day I have cake and sweets and ice cream. Because I don't really care about my diet that much, it's not a priority. Some people with my diet would be like "ughh but I feel like shit, bla bla bla" – work anyway!

It is now 2 AM and I am just coming off creating a new automated billing system for our company. And in fact, before I go to sleep, I'll go eat some more cake and ice cream

I realize this though – if I tried to be out of my comfort zone in all areas of life, I would fail in all areas. So I stay deep into my comfort zone in most areas of my life, so I can get out of my comfort zone in the few that matter to me at the moment. You need to learn to conserve your energy. I put a lot of energy in my business because I conserve a lot of energy in the rest of my life. I wouldn't be able to do it otherwise.

In addition, I'd say that working on my business is actually my comfort zone. Getting a job would be F*cking scary for me by comparison. I never held a job. Going in for an interview, being judged, taking a test – ... gives me the chills even thinking about it.

I serve God, no man.. Just because I implemented some ideas from Alex Hormozi, Followed a Mental program Andy created, try some new workouts I saw Cameron Haynes doing... I could go on and on.. That does not mean I worship these guys or even wish I could live their life for a day, they're just human... That being said, they're willing to teach, and their ideas and strategies sound good to me for the most part, and their ideas and strategies are MUCH better than anyone else I've known in my own small life.. I assume many feel the same, which is why these guys have the following they do.

 

[Consolation]

Don't tell me your hero is Andrew Tate! LOL

Try again. I even have a life-sized statue of my hero made from gold. Ok, I'm joking. Not that much. The keyword is lobster.

 

[EngineerThis]

Great post! Have actually felt the 'happiness' one gets after working and doing shit you didnt want to do.

Something that I struggle with, is actually going against 'that' moment - when you absolutely 0 energy, 0 will, 0 desire to do anything. I am not talking about the daily feeling of just not feeling like it, its that combined with absolutely feeling like why am I doing that anymore. Whats the point?

Any advice to deal with that would be helpful.
Thank you for the post!

I would say it’s because you’re getting your rocks off elsewhere, too much stimulus, too much content, sensory/dopemine overload… for example I found myself really tired after work and not creative..

Why? Because all day I would have podcasts and lectures on as I worked.. information overload! I blocked some websites, and just listen to music and my energy and creativity is much stronger when I get home… I also have completely minimized my iPhone, using the Blank Spaces app.. this has dropped my screen time by 47%. Check it out

 

[JordanK]

I completed 75HARD and it did wonders for my confidence and self belief. Sticking to your word to yourself and seeing the challenge through really sets you up nicely in other areas of your life.

You feel better discipline in approaching business matters, more confident in leading your relationship or dating life, more confident in your health and how far you can push your body/mind.