I finally understand David Goggins, Jocko, Cameron Haynes etc.. #75Hard

[EngineerThis]

I will say this: everythig you talked about has nothing to do with business success, and it’s merely a distraction.

You cannot train yourself to be successful in business by being successful at something else — one would think that would be intuitively obvious.

If business success is what you’re after, it’s easy — work on your business 24/7. I’ve done that for years. You will be successful. And yes, the process will be very painful too. Especially once your business starts getting bigger I guarantee that you’ll ALWAYS find something else to do.

There almost never is a time when I can say I’ve got nothing to do. It’s always that there is too much to do. The bigger you get, the more options you have.

Most people when they get bigger lose their drive. Then they chill and “pretend” to work hard. But they really don’t.

Get clear on why you’re doing #75HARD — if your goal is business success, then drop it, and focus on business. You don’t need any mindset to be successful in business.

You will find rich people who are extremely petty and jealous. Some who lack confidence. Others who have no discipline whatsoever. Because all those traits are not causative of success in business in any way.

I understand what you saying but, many people.. Myself included, flat out don't know how to just work on my business all day.. I realize that sounds funny but it's true! I wasn't raised with discipline or self-control, and public school/corporate jobs beat me into submission.. My work ethic is great but my Focus is nonexistent, and my craving for distraction and pleasure is strong. This is why I started on this program to build mental toughness, learn to prioritize, learn to grind, and learn to say no.. And I'll tell you what, it works!!! Never in my life have I felt this strong and focused. It is apparent in my business too, my effort and creativity has been 10x what it was before. Again I know it sounds funny, but I did not know how to work on my business all day before I started this. That's exactly why Andy created this program, which is 100% free mind you.

 

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[Panos Daras]

They seem to be happy, peaceful, and drama-free, yet are still top performers.

Sign me up for this club anytime. I am super fed up with the drama llamas, stay hard, get after it, no process, self-destruction club. Thanks for the videos @MTF I could listen to these guys speak for hours on end.

 

[EngineerThis]

I actually have to agree with this, some of us aren't born/raised/equipped to pull it off. Add personalities or other things like ADHD, and just "getting up and doing what we should" while still trying to do everything else is not something everyone is equipped to or prepared to manage.

I needed the structure of someone else's program or challenge, and the physical is an easy way to help people develop that. In this particular case, Andy had his businesses rolling before he came up with 75, he didn't need it to build a business, he needed it to keep his own health a priority, so canme up with his own little challenge, and when he shared it, well, others jumped on the bandwagon because they needed to learn more self discipline than they had as well.

No, it's not for everyone, and the cult following is sometimes hilarious, but to throw the entire premise out because "you" didn't need it is narrow minded imo.

Between several rounds of this, and my power list, I feel equipped to take things into my own hands and keep running with it, but I can promise I NEVER would have figured it out on my own, or learned as much about myself and how to deal with my own short comings, what does and doesn't work for me in such a limited amount of time without those two things.

I would never have read MJ's book if it wasn't for 75 either..... because I always viewed self development books as frufru bs and never went to that book section to begin with....

It may not be for "you," and "you" may not need it, but it has definitely helped some of us figure some stuff out other things simply didn't drill into our heads the same way.

To simplify what you and I stated.. I always knew "What I should do, and what I have to do" That was never the issue. The issue was "How". How do I focus and grind out the daily tasks I need to do, every day? How do I tell my friends No, without being bummed out? How do I hit the gym when I'm tired, How do I turn down free doughnuts?... Executing, discipline, integrity, focus, resilience, perseverance.. These are learned skills that I never really mastered... Because I was always under the leadership of others... Luckily I found 75hard, which teaches you these skills via bootcamp. Except it's harder because YOU are YOUR own drill sergeant... Which is absolutely true in the real world.

 

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[DarkKnight]

Edit

 

[MakeItHappen]

It's not a negative thing.. Beating your enemy is an extremely rewarding feeling.. Does it feel negative when you defeat a boss in video games?

I am not saying that it is. Still, it sounds a lot like David Goggins talking about "Taking souls". In this case, you try to crush yourself.

MTF's example was partly about being totally relaxed in your pursuit of greatness. Seeing yourself as an enemy that you have to beat doesn't sound relaxing at all to me.

 

[MTF]

Is there any reading material or resources around this sort of philosophy? Elite Performance centered around the concept of doing it for yourself/internal rather than for others/external.

Nothing that direct. I don't think it's that common because it doesn't appeal to social media masses. It's not extreme enough. But you can find many role models in sports like freediving (like William Trubridge or Alexey Molchanov), surfing (like Laird Hamilton though he's super competitive but he's still a chill guy as far as I know), and rock climbing (like Alex Honnold).

 

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[NervesOfSteel]

I haven't been able to figure out "WHY" These guys put themselves through such suffering on a daily basis... But I think I do now.

David Goggins, Jocko Wilnik, Cameron Haynes, Andy Friscilla all have something in common, they're sadistic in the suffering they put themselves through.. Yet love it, crave it, and push even harder the next day.. Why do they do this?

I thought it was a quest to be "Tough or manly as possible" or maybe "To be stronger than anyone else" or maybe they just get addicted to the endorphin rush..

They probably had their WTF moment, tore themselves apart from the artificial fabric of a cozy, God-fearing, highly judging society and started doing what they loved until they became the best on the globe for their skill.
They did make millions and I guess they deserve every penny of it. They are masters of their trade. They CAN walk the talk.

No, you don't know. Most of these guys have f*cked up psyches after a shitty childhood and then serving in special forces and having equally shitty experiences there.

Broken people are often drawn to this type of work, as if by becoming badass they can finally face their (often long dead) bully from their childhood (often a family member, dad or stepdad).

The shit they've gone through well before becoming gurus is the most important thing that discerns them. An everyday person will never get anywhere close to the mindset of those guys and I don't think any sane person wants to.

There are so many victims out there, but only one Goggins! I would give an arm and a leg for his mindset - to push forward while ignoring whatever his mind or body says!

Yes, they all have one thing in common besides their psychotic/PTSD-infused experiences and/or traumatic childhood, and that's the fact that they're all selling you something : Courses, masterclasses, merch, public speaking bookings.

These guys know that the eCommerce/get-rich-quick guru marketing angle is overused, so they crafted their brand based on the go-hard-or-go-home identity. Military elements, oozing testosterone (yes, young aspiring men get wet at this word), the no-nonsense traditional/conservative tough guy vibe. Guess what? Their target demographic is the exact same audience as Black Riffle Coffee lol.

You're confusing Andrew Tate with David Goggins! The former is a Guru, latter is a legend.

They don't sell merch, they sell Emotion .. !

 

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[SnowLava]

In short, good/fun/easy things will leave you feeling depressed after.. (To various degrees)

But painful, scary, hard, tiring, draining things WILL make you feel awesome after, and that feeling of accomplishment, pride, energy, next level etc... Stays for a while. At least until tomorrow, when you grind it into fruition again

Great post! Have actually felt the 'happiness' one gets after working and doing shit you didnt want to do.

Something that I struggle with, is actually going against 'that' moment - when you absolutely 0 energy, 0 will, 0 desire to do anything. I am not talking about the daily feeling of just not feeling like it, its that combined with absolutely feeling like why am I doing that anymore. Whats the point?

Any advice to deal with that would be helpful.
Thank you for the post!

 

[EngineerThis]

Kinda a big difference between driving your Lambo and jerking off with your cake.

Look, enjoying things you earned does feel good.

I got a '74 911 last year and that thing is so fun to drive.

Zero regrets after taking it for a spin - it only gets me more hungry to do bigger things.

@Ravens_Shadow is in his thread loving life with a few hours ripping around in his classic Ferrari.

View attachment 53787

I kinda get your point in this thread but you are throwing the baby (and everything else) out with the bathwater.

I meant when you rent a Lambo or do a super car experience! I love cars and 110% want a Lambo of my own, because when I get it. I know “I” earned it. Keeping a sports car on the road is not easy! Thats why it feels so good too.. I could’ve expounded on that more!

 

[EngineerThis]

No, you don't know. Most of these guys have f*cked up psyches after a shitty childhood and then serving in special forces and having equally shitty experiences there.

Broken people are often drawn to this type of work, as if by becoming badass they can finally face their (often long dead) bully from their childhood (often a family member, dad or stepdad).

The shit they've gone through well before becoming gurus is the most important thing that discerns them. An everyday person will never get anywhere close to the mindset of those guys and I don't think any sane person wants to.

I've read multiple books written by guys like them. For a period of time I was super impressed with them until I realized it was my own coping mechanism, too.

I'm NOT saying there's no value in voluntary suffering. There is. But don't fool yourself you can understand the ridiculously f*cked up mentality these guys have.

I agree with @Fox.

Have you completed #75Hard? It absolutely is a program for “normal” people to build that mindset. The proof is staggering.

 

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[EngineerThis]

For a time I felt that 75 hard was too easy but I think sticking with it for the whole time will do something great for me.

I've been too easy on myself for some time now and it's about time for a challenge.
Thank you for writing this post.

As did I… I eat clean, drink a lot of water, read a lot… but man doing it everyday without fail is difficult! Teaches you to say “No”. To prioritize your tasks, and do it regardless of the weather, sickness, commitments etc.
FYI I used to laugh at the people that jogged at 5am in the rain… they’re nuts! But now I’m one of them, and it’s awesome. I’ve never been a gym rat, or even had a membership… but going everyday.. my gains have been very noticeable and made some new friends too.

 

[MakeItHappen]

I tried it when I was into that stuff and stopped it because it made me less "hard" instead of more.

The arbitrary rules were completely idiotic. You can complete a day by doing a 45-minute gym session and a 45-minute walk but when I had 2 hours of MMA (much harder than weightlifting or walking) or a 3-hour swimming session (much more exhausting) that only counted for one workout and I had to do one on top of that. A professional athlete wouldn't complete a day of 75 Hard because one 8-hour bike ride would count only for one workout and be less valid than two 45-minute bike rides lol.

And no dude, you aren't going to build that mindset by doing some silly things like taking cold showers or running. You'll get stronger, for sure, but you'd still be a regular human being.

You need to understand that most of these dudes are masochistic and have completely f*cked up brains.

They can't walk, get a surgery, are told to not move for 3 months or they can become disabled for life and yet they still go out and run the next day, completely disrespecting the work the surgeons put into their bodies.

Or they're dealing with severe PTSD and they deal with it by tattooing their bodies so they can use physical pain to counter mental pain.

Or they're completely fine risking or losing their lives and leaving their spouses or children to fend for themselves just for an ego trip.

I understand how appealing this philosophy is to young impressionable dudes who lack a strong father figure in life. But you aren't strong because you run with injured legs. You're just being stupid.

Silly feats of "toughness" aside, OF COURSE it's satisfying to do hard things. I've done a lot of that stuff and agree with that.

But that's besides the point. I'm not talking about pursuing big goals in life and voluntarily exposing yourself to useful, context-specific suffering. I'm talking about being impressed by guys who are very, very broken inside. They are no role models.

Have you figured out how to have a "winning mindset" without using fuel of childhood Trauma etc.?
I mean how to be a high Performer when your have "nobody to prove wrong" and nobody to beat. If I look at top Performers Like Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant they both had the need to crush others to the Point that nothing Else mattered in there lifes...

A winning mindset based on empathy seems more attractive to me...

 

[EngineerThis]

Have you figured out how to have a "winning mindset" without using fuel of childhood Trauma etc.?
I mean how to be a high Performer when your have "nobody to prove wrong" and nobody to beat. If I look at top Performers Like Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant they both had the need to crush others to the Point that nothing Else mattered in there lifes...

A winning mindset based on empathy seems more attractive to me...

You don’t need to crush others. Just your ego. You are your worst enemy, crush that person, love others

 

[StrikingViper69]

I've done 75 Hard multiple times, and in 2023 started a "Live Hard" year.

A week ago, halfway through the final phase (Phase 3), I decided to quit. Not a "fail" - I didn't miss any tasks, I didn't get overwhelmed with life and not be able to complete my day - I just realized, even that close to the finish line, that I was just checking off boxes for things that were doing me NO benefit at this point. For those who aren't aware, Phase 3 contains a variety of additional tasks to the usual 5 items in 75.

Checking off those boxes was pulling my attention and energy away from things that really DID matter in my life.

I saw it more as a "graduation" than quitting though. For me, I've gained plenty in the program - realizing that not getting outside even in crappy weather was just an excuse; learning to say "no" and stand by my choices even with tons of pressure from family, friends, etc to break my resolve; learned that my commitment to my choices could also bring better people into my circle who are also pushing towards their goals; I learned what I do - and don't - need at this point in my life; I learned how I could fall off the wagon around my own goals when my focus was not on MY goals....

So, I quit on day 16 of Phase 3. I set up my own Habits Tracker for the items I feel are important for me to keep up (personalized), and I keep up my daily Power List, and feel like I don't need to follow these other random programs to set my goals and stick to them anymore.

I like a fair bit of what Andy has to say, and some of his advice has literally changed my life - and I have some serious issues with some of his perspectives (especially as a woman). I like a lot of what Jocko and them have to share as well, but I'm not out here to purposefully beat up my body more than I already have/may through things I love to do, but I also know we can do more than we often think we can if we put our mind to it.

I'm weirdly proud of the fact that the program led me to feeling strong enough to call it quits that close to the end, and have zero regrets and would defend my choice to Andy's face if I had to lol. But, ultimately, I think that's really what it should be about....

I think you learned the most important thing you can from these people and challenges: make it a challenge for what you want to do with your life.

 

[Bounce Back]

Is there any reading material or resources around this sort of philosophy? Elite Performance centered around the concept of doing it for yourself/internal rather than for others/external.

Stoicism sans "the gods"/abstract spiritual references.

Otherwise I'd say elements of say Zen Buddhism but not completely from my understanding. They wouldn't really strive to be elite as chasing that on its own would be clinging to this life.

However both are internal focused in my opinion. Basically anything else covering "internal locus of control" would most likely be able to be adapted I'd think.

 

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[Consolation]

Yes, they all have one thing in common besides their psychotic/PTSD-infused experiences and/or traumatic childhood, and that's the fact that they're all selling you something : Courses, masterclasses, merch, public speaking bookings.

This is a lesson from Adam Smith's principle of economics: It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker David Goggins, Jocko, Cameron Haynes, that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own self-interest. sales funnel.

There's a saying that I heard somewhere a soon-to-be retired Navy Seal has book contract waiting for them.

DISCLAIMER: I am not downplaying their achievements. They have accomplished great things and managed to channelled (not conquered) their demons. How many psychopaths were in the special-forces and turned out to be serial-killer after leaving the military? I called these people mini-Goggins.

There could be more mini-Goggins out there than the real Goggins himself.

 

[NervesOfSteel]

Pain and pleasure are two sides of the same coin.

Both are modulated by the same underlying neurological circuit - the dopamine reward system.

• Pursue difficulty and you will be rewarded with joy.
• Pursue only pleasure and you will, eventually, lose your willingness to live.

This is not any life philosophy or call to "mental toughness", it's the basic reality of our biology.

We have evolved to endure pain and hardship.

That's how we, a primitive species of apes, went from sticks and stones to conquering the entire planet and shooting F*cking rockets into space.

We are inherently motivated by difficulty.

This is one of our most fundamental psychological needs.

The comfort crisis of the Western world mentioned by @Antifragile and @Kak is a very real thing.

A hungry man, with undying hunger, will one day sail to your shore, in a low boat, because the hungry man has lost his mind, and now can defy logic and existing physics! - The Viking!

None of They/Them were harmed in this comment!

 

[NervesOfSteel]

You mean you are the free user in his sales funnel? Like Google charges us nothing for cloud storage but premium for more storage?



Sorry if we don't share the same hero.

Congrats for being able to accomplish what most people can't.

Yes. He's great.
Yes. He changed lives.
Yes. He has productocracy.
Yes. He's special.
Yes. [insert anything you want here].

I'm not denying anything what he has done to you.

Once again, I congratulate you with full sincerity. Would be great if you can share your journey.


I don''t have a military background. Everything that I'm going to say came from secondary/third sources either through reading or wisdom of the crowd (crowd, in this sense I meant my relatives, friends, people I met).

Let's take this variable(s):

1. Navy SEALs always have book contract, media publicity, got invited for talk shows whenever they retired. Either they are honorably discharged or dishonorably discharged, that seems to be ignored.

2. In contrast with other special forces unit, like Green Berets, MARSOCs or in the U.K like SAS, SBS; you don't hear them much like the Navy SEALs potrayed themselves. They might not like the Navy SEALs, or is it due to professional rivalry?

3. Every special forces enrollment program are designed to break a human being down to its core. Because if you passed it, you have already signed a death certificate. Guess who has the advantage? I will propose that those who have unresolved childhood trauma. There were few notable hardened-catch-me-if-you-can-criminals in my country with special forces background.

4. It's a sad thing and this is a generalization. Former special forces personnels can't function well in society. Only few are able. Promiscious marriage, multiple partners, abusive husbands, petty, sometimes, full-time criminals, etc. I guess there are price needs to be paid. I AM NOT DISRESPECTING ANY VETERANS HERE. What for? I have few relatives and friends joined the army, and even my late grandfather served during communist insurgency in my country.

Considering these variables. Now you know why it's off-putting for me everytime a book was released with the author claiming he was a member of an elite special forces unit? Who knows he might just a loaned cook.

Don't tell me your hero is Andrew Tate! LOL

 

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[EngineerThis]

I've done 75 Hard multiple times, and in 2023 started a "Live Hard" year.

A week ago, halfway through the final phase (Phase 3), I decided to quit. Not a "fail" - I didn't miss any tasks, I didn't get overwhelmed with life and not be able to complete my day - I just realized, even that close to the finish line, that I was just checking off boxes for things that were doing me NO benefit at this point. For those who aren't aware, Phase 3 contains a variety of additional tasks to the usual 5 items in 75.

Checking off those boxes was pulling my attention and energy away from things that really DID matter in my life.

I saw it more as a "graduation" than quitting though. For me, I've gained plenty in the program - realizing that not getting outside even in crappy weather was just an excuse; learning to say "no" and stand by my choices even with tons of pressure from family, friends, etc to break my resolve; learned that my commitment to my choices could also bring better people into my circle who are also pushing towards their goals; I learned what I do - and don't - need at this point in my life; I learned how I could fall off the wagon around my own goals when my focus was not on MY goals....

So, I quit on day 16 of Phase 3. I set up my own Habits Tracker for the items I feel are important for me to keep up (personalized), and I keep up my daily Power List, and feel like I don't need to follow these other random programs to set my goals and stick to them anymore.

I like a fair bit of what Andy has to say, and some of his advice has literally changed my life - and I have some serious issues with some of his perspectives (especially as a woman). I like a lot of what Jocko and them have to share as well, but I'm not out here to purposefully beat up my body more than I already have/may through things I love to do, but I also know we can do more than we often think we can if we put our mind to it.

I'm weirdly proud of the fact that the program led me to feeling strong enough to call it quits that close to the end, and have zero regrets and would defend my choice to Andy's face if I had to lol. But, ultimately, I think that's really what it should be about....

Sounds like you did graduate that’s awesome, congratulations! That’s exactly what the program is about. It’s awesome you don’t need it anymore!

 

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[EngineerThis]

My core philosophy these days draws heavily from freediving. It's a unique sport in that you can only be the best by being the most relaxed and the most detached from the outcome. The top guys are all super chill and don't seem to be driven by proving others wrong but simply are driven by exploration.

Maybe you can learn something from this talk by one of the best freedivers in the world, William Trubridge:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MZetpFw7qY


Alexey Molchanov is currently the best freediver and he's super, super chill, too (one of his nicknames is "the Golden Retriever" lol). Here's an interview with him:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHtqeacA3ws


These are the people I get inspired by now. They seem to be happy, peaceful, and drama-free, yet are still top performers.

You would like Cameron Haynes, I promise.

 

[DarkKnight]

NA

 

[DarkKnight]

NA

 

[EngineerThis]

Is there any reading material or resources around this sort of philosophy? Elite Performance centered around the concept of doing it for yourself/internal rather than for others/external.

An Elite performer's strongest competition and strongest enemy IS THEMSELVES.. They do everything they can to battle their own ego and inner voice.

 

[MakeItHappen]

An Elite performer's strongest competition and strongest enemy IS THEMSELVES.. They do everything they can to battle their own ego and inner voice.

The philosophy presented by MTF doesn't sound like a philosophy that makes yourself your strongest enemy.

 

[EngineerThis]

The philosophy presented by MTF doesn't sound like a philosophy that makes yourself your strongest enemy.

It's not a negative thing.. Beating your enemy is an extremely rewarding feeling.. Does it feel negative when you defeat a boss in video games?

 

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[DarkKnight]

It's not a negative thing.. Beating your enemy is an extremely rewarding feeling.. Does it feel negative when you defeat a boss in video games?

Edited

 

[Consolation]

Why Goggins? What makes him special?

His thought process is available online for free. He's not of the type: Buy My Book, I need your money to be a millionaire because that's my only goal, blah blah guru!

He saved my life, twice, without asking for a penny!

You mean you are the free user in his sales funnel? Like Google charges us nothing for cloud storage but premium for more storage?

2020, Covid .. I was in ICU .. a Powerlifter with a boastful pair of legs .. 3 weeks of ICU .. eats muscle so much that I was reduced to a crawler, a wheelchair-bound victim of hospitalization.

The loss in business due to factory shutdown because of lockdown, loss of health due to lockdown, Doctors bewildered .. unable to handle the post-COVID traumas...

Goggins came to my mind... "When your body says stop .. you're at only 40% of your capacity"...

I pushed myself beyond my limits...

abandoned the wheelchair... I crawled, then I walked .. then I jogged .. now I lift half the weight I used to...

I read about his 4x4x48 principle .. and it stuck with me... I managed my working capacity vs rest time as per his rule.

I saved my business, I thrived, and I started 2 more endeavors.. none at a loss...

Sorry if we don't share the same hero.

Congrats for being able to accomplish what most people can't.

Yes. He's great.
Yes. He changed lives.
Yes. He has productocracy.
Yes. He's special.
Yes. [insert anything you want here].

I'm not denying anything what he has done to you.

Once again, I congratulate you with full sincerity. Would be great if you can share your journey.

He was a Navy seal anyway, does this guy need our certificate?

I don''t have a military background. Everything that I'm going to say came from secondary/third sources either through reading or wisdom of the crowd (crowd, in this sense I meant my relatives, friends, people I met).

Let's take this variable(s):

1. Navy SEALs always have book contract, media publicity, got invited for talk shows whenever they retired. Either they are honorably discharged or dishonorably discharged, that seems to be ignored.

2. In contrast with other special forces unit, like Green Berets, MARSOCs or in the U.K like SAS, SBS; you don't hear them much like the Navy SEALs potrayed themselves. They might not like the Navy SEALs, or is it due to professional rivalry?

3. Every special forces enrollment program are designed to break a human being down to its core. Because if you passed it, you have already signed a death certificate. Guess who has the advantage? I will propose that those who have unresolved childhood trauma. There were few notable hardened-catch-me-if-you-can-criminals in my country with special forces background.

4. It's a sad thing and this is a generalization. Former special forces personnels can't function well in society. Only few are able. Promiscious marriage, multiple partners, abusive husbands, petty, sometimes, full-time criminals, etc. I guess there are price needs to be paid. I AM NOT DISRESPECTING ANY VETERANS HERE. What for? I have few relatives and friends joined the army, and even my late grandfather served during communist insurgency in my country.

Considering these variables. Now you know why it's off-putting for me everytime a book was released with the author claiming he was a member of an elite special forces unit? Who knows he might just a loaned cook.