Andy's Inbound/Sales Braindump

[Monica Rose]

ALWAYS BE CLOSING?

If someone asks “Why should we work with you?” then they’ve just pissed me off. They’re running through their nice little questionnaire and will be comparing me to other apples.

So I’ll throw the kitchen sink at them and let them figure the f*ck out what to do with it. But they’re too late, I’ve already mentally shut that door and moved on.

Send in a Request For Proposal (RFP)? See ya.

Sales is a screening process. They’ve just told me they don’t know why they want to work with me. I’d much rather spend my time helping the people in motion.

“Our job is to find the people who see the value in what we do, not the cost.” (Blaise Brosnan)

While you’re trying to close someone who’s not that interested, there’s someone else up the road who’ll bite your hand off to work with you.

Always Be Closing?

I read that as “Keep moving till someone bites your hand off.”

(Your mileage may vary. I’m not selling high-ticket initial sales. I’m building long-term relationships with clients. Over the years it ends up high-ticket.)

Agreed! Look for prospects you have chemistry with. After all, if your goal is to work with them, then you want to like them, and vice versa. A term I use, that is stolen from business coach/author Sid. Walker, is that when prospecting, you're looking for gold, not trying to turn rocks into gold.

 

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[Andy Black]

If I spot a typo or broken link I just send a quick note with it highlighted on a screenshot. Pretty easy to do. Conversations start but I don’t do web dev so I don’t take it any further.


The emails that I’d send are super short:


“Hi,

Spotted a wee typo:

<screenshot>

Andy”

.

“Hi,

I get this when I click on the Facebook link on your website:

<screenshot>

Andy”

.

“Hi,

Your ad for car insurance shows up when I searched for home insurance?

<screenshot>

Andy”


Hmm... are these cold emails? I fire them off and keep moving. The goal isn’t even to get a reply... it’s just to show them something they need to fix.

The funny thing is... people often reply with a thanks and wee conversations ensue.



(Originally posted here: Are Audits Enough? Trying To Offer More Value Upfront)

 

[The Abundant Man]

I'm getting referrals because of Andy's advice in this thread. Thanks Andy

 

[Andy Black]

I'm getting referrals because of Andy's advice in this thread. Thanks Andy

Awesome. Tell us more! What did you do different? What’s the main takeaway for you?

 

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[Andy Black]

Someone asked for tips on a "sales call" he has coming up.

Here was my reply:

Just have a "chat"?

Off the top of my head I just ask stuff like this:

• Hi Bob. How's it going?
• Where are you based?
• What time is it over there?
• Do you have to run off soon to get the kids or anything?
• I hear you're having a cold snap in Florida? How cold is cold?
• I'm curious how you found out about me!
• <continue the small talk>
• Sooo... how's business going?

Let them talk.

• How do you normally get new business?
• What marketing have you tried to date? How has that worked out?
• What services do you provide?
• What do you think people type in to find those services?
• What locations do you cover?

 

[Andy Black]

"Show Don't Tell" & "Putting the first things first"
(Originally posted on 08-Sep-17 here.)

I had a Skype call with a prospect last night.

He read some of my TFLF posts and liked that my focus was on simplifying things, and on bringing results NOT increasing traffic.

He told me the history of their AdWords account, and how an agency took over 18 months ago and traffic and spend was up, but they're not sure sales have gone up similarly.

He explained that they didn't have tracking and reporting nailed down yet, so didn't know what was working and what wasn't.

I told him that I think too many people get anal about tracking and reporting, and aren't doing the right things in the first place - like getting the right offer in front of the right people at the right time.

I then suggested he open their AdWords account and share his screen with me.

I then proceeded to show him where he was potentially missing out on sales. They were getting a lot of visitors who were looking for information, and not getting the visitors who were looking to buy.

I SHOWED him what search terms people were coming in on, and showed how there were none for a particular product they were selling. This was a big AHA moment for him.

He's so delighted he's going to get the owner of the business onto a call with me next week.

...

So what happened and what can you take away from this even if you're not an AdWords dude?


1) I explained something to him and he logically agreed with it. However, it wasn't until he saw how it impacted his own business that he GOT it. Cue widened eyes, sit back in chair, slow nodding. The AHA moment.


2) The above is a case of SHOW DON'T TELL. I showed him his bleeding neck. It's also a case of me showing him that I know my stuff.

I didn't tell him I was good. I didn't tell him who I'd worked for, what results I had achieved, how long I'd been in business. All that can come at the end of the call next week with his boss present.

The first thing I did was get to helping him - educating him, consulting immediately.

I did a SHOW DON'T TELL with my expertise.

("Add value first" anyone?)


3) A Skype video call helps them get to know you pretty damn quick. I don't mind that they see me in my playroom with kids posters behind me. It was 10pm. Anyway, if they have an issue they're not the client for me.


4) A screenshare where he looks over my shoulder can impress people with me whizzing round the screen. Except it can also lose them.

A screenshare where I look over their shoulder and direct them to type things in, click on buttons, unhide columns, sort by this and by that... well, that equally impresses people, but moves at their pace, AND gives them the skills to keep doing it after the call.

He now has the columns in his AdWords interface setup better. He now knows what they mean. He now knows how to drill down and replicate the work I did with him.

I suspect he might get his boss in and show him what we learned. (He literally had to go to a monthly management meeting straight after the call.) Maybe they'll all sit round the office excitedly spotting missed opportunities and "GETTING" it instead of thinking it's the preserve of a technical whizz.


5) *** IMPORTANT ***

He's not the decision maker, his boss is. But he's my champion in the business. If I make him look good, and promise him an easier and more successful future, then he's going to pull out all the stops to make it happen.

With his new skills he can show the company what I showed him. Maybe they're now wondering what else they can learn if that's what happened in one hour, of mostly chatting?

YOUR BOSS IS WHOEVER SIGNS YOUR TIMESHEET (or approves your invoice).

If I'm going to be working with this guy, and he's reporting into his boss, then his boss is NOT my client. This guy is.

Of course, I want to get on a call with the business owner and SHOW DON'T TELL his bleeding neck, and SHOW DON'T TELL how I can stem it, and how I can help them make more money.

...

What's your main takeaway?

What will you do differently going forward?

...

You might be wondering what I meant by putting the first things first?

Get the right people to your offer first, before getting anal with tracking, attribution, and reporting.

Add value first, before trying to "close". (I dislike that word!)

"Show them their bleeding neck", before showing them how to stem the bleed.

 

[PizzaOnTheRoof]

Hey Andy, interested in how you handle potential (cold) clients calling you?

Do you start questioning right away or do you schedule a discovery call for another time?

 

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[Andy Black]

Hey Andy, interested in how you handle potential (cold) clients calling you?

Do you start questioning right away or do you schedule a discovery call for another time?

I never get cold calls from potential clients. My phone number isn’t advertised anywhere.

Inbound communication are either emails or messages on various platforms. I message back and forth and if it seems worth our while I point them towards my Calendly calendar where they can schedule in a Zoom call.

Same for clients actually. I’m super responsive within Basecamp, and folks don’t have my phone number anyway.

 

[PizzaOnTheRoof]

I never get cold calls from potential clients. My phone number isn’t advertised anywhere.

Inbound communication are either emails or messages on various platforms. I message back and forth and if it seems worth our while I point them towards my Calendly calendar where they can schedule in a Zoom call.

Same for clients actually. I’m super responsive within Basecamp, and folks don’t have my phone number anyway.

Cool. All I need to hear as an introvert!...just kidding.

Do you think you miss out on potential sales by not advertising your number?

 

[Andy Black]

Do you think you miss out on potential sales by not advertising your number?

No, because I wouldn't answer a call from a number I don't recognise anyway.

 

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[Miketing]

Just got a lead through from the "When your back's against the wall..." method. Cheers Andy.

 

[Andy Black]

Just got a lead through from the "When your back's against the wall..." method. Cheers Andy.

Well done applying it!

Did you email people? What did you write?

 

[Miketing]

Well done applying it!

Did you email people? What did you write?

Mostly emails, yes. I sent a couple messages on Upwork and Skype but not even a reply to those. Nearly all the emails I sent at least got a response though, even if they weren't interested in my services.

Come to think of it, maybe I should try following up with the non-repliers some other way as well. They could just not be active on those platforms anymore.

Anyway, here's the one I sent to this guy who showed interest (just after NY obviously):

"Hey <Name>, Happy New Year!

How’s business these days? Still working from Dubai?

I thought I'd reach out and let you know some space has cleared in my calendar. If you need any help with Facebook Ads/funnels or know anyone who does then just let me know.

To the happiest and most productive year yet!

<My name>"

I was thinking afterwards that maybe I should have said something more results-oriented rather than "Facebook Ads/funnels" though - e.g. "If you need any help driving traffic and sales". What do you think?

 

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[Andy Black]

Mostly emails, yes. I sent a couple messages on Upwork and Skype but not even a reply to those. Nearly all the emails I sent at least got a response though, even if they weren't interested in my services.

Come to think of it, maybe I should try following up with the non-repliers some other way as well. They could just not be active on those platforms anymore.

Anyway, here's the one I sent to this guy who showed interest (just after NY obviously):

"Hey <Name>, Happy New Year!

How’s business these days? Still working from Dubai?

I thought I'd reach out and let you know some space has cleared in my calendar. If you need any help with Facebook Ads/funnels or know anyone who does then just let me know.

To the happiest and most productive year yet!

<My name>"

I was thinking afterwards that maybe I should have said something more results-oriented rather than "Facebook Ads/funnels" though - e.g. "If you need any help driving traffic and sales". What do you think?

I like that you said Facebook Ads. You’re now positioned in their minds as “The Facebook Ads Guy” the next time someone complains to them that their Facebook Ads are running like a dog.

 

[Andy Black]

This is an interesting thread about sales:
> Jordan Belfort’s Sales Training - Worth It?


It’s dragging some thoughts and content out of me that I may later copy/paste into here.

 

[Andy Black]

From here:

I’m not a salesman and don’t aspire to be one so take what I say with a pinch of salt...

I don’t recall ever reading a sales book. I must have just picked up bits and pieces over the years. Like being comfortable with silence while they think. Like not coming across as a salesman.

Personally, I’d rather not take any sales courses - because I never have a goal to make the sale.

I like the following lines:

“Sales is a screening process” (Blaise Brosnan)

“The first purchase is a test - both ways.” (Unknown)

“The most important formula in business is R+R.” (Blaise Brosnan)


I’m chatting so we can get to know each other and see if we can create a win-win.

Obviously I try to only chat to people where I believe I can help them, and/or I believe building that relationship will help my business. That’s an important part of the screening process.

Not sure that helps. I’m just putting it out there that maybe you don’t need to take a sales courses?

 

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[Andy Black]

From here where we discussed whether our mojo can get screwed up taking sales courses or listening to advice about sales:

My mojo was definitely messed with by listening to other people (who I paid to help me!). Smart people. Well meaning people. But they unintentionally gave me great sounding advice that took me away from finding what works best for me.

In some ways it’s the act of finding what works best for you that’s most beneficial.

I think we can spend too much time learning or following other people’s paths and drown out our own thoughts, causing us to lose our way.


Another coach gave me very different advice when I paid for a call with him. He said “You don’t need to be on any lists brother. All you need is within you.”

This was very liberating advice for me. He gave me the permission and confidence to be myself and do things my way. (Sad that I needed permission, but I suspect I’m not the only one.)

Now I think about it, he gave me some other good sales advice with an off-the-cuff comment of “You’re the type of person people want to buy from.” Oh... that’s interesting. People want to buy from me because of the type of person I am, not because of sales skills I have?


On another note, I don’t subscribe to always be learning. My goal isn’t to learn. It’s not even to be better at specific subjects or skills.

I’m good enough at Google Ads.

I’m good enough at writing.

I’m good enough at creating videos.

I’m good enough at sales.

I’ve no interest in getting better at any of the above.

My problem isn’t that I can’t sell, it’s that my offer and processes haven’t been refined enough so it sells itself.

I won’t read any sales books, not because I think I’m a natural salesman, but because I don’t want to be better salesman. I want to be a better business owner.


Another thing that would be a big no-no for me is the background and values of whoever I’m listening to.

“How you do anything is how you do everything.”

If someone’s moral compass is skew then obviously they can still give great advice. But if I’m learning from them then how do I know what’s good advice for *me*? Do they have my best interest at heart? Will I inadvertently pick up some mindset or belief that holds me back for years?


I’m super protective of my values, way of thinking, and way of doing things. That’s part of the reason I’m on an information diet, don’t go to events, and don’t want to be in any masterminds.




Hope that helps.

 

[Andy Black]

Making your first sale this week

Are you navel gazing trying to determine who your ideal client could be?

I’ve been there and bypassed that hurdle by talking and helping as many different people as I could. From there I could think about who I *already* spoke to and helped or couldn’t help.

...

If you don’t have any paying clients yet then consider doing this for the coming week:

1) Reach out to everyone you’ve ever done business with, and then everyone in your network as described here:

• When your back's against the wall...

2) Find out what local business networking events are going on this week (most likely on Zoom).

• Join them **as a peer**, not as a marketer trying to find clients.
• Get chatting to those business owners and see if you can help them.
• Maybe offer to “jump on a quick call” if someone has any specifics they might need help with.
• Take it from there.

...

Make it a goal to speak to and help X number of people this week. Don’t push sales. See who's eyes light up when you tell them what you do. See who’s motivated enough to jump on a call (even a free call costs them time, which is a precious resource).

Good luck!

 

[Andy Black]

STOP OVERCOMPLICATING SALES

I’ve been on local business workshops where I didn’t know anyone in the room.

“Before we start this workshop on how to use LinkedIn for your business (or whatever), can we go round the room and get a little introduction from everyone? Tell us your name and what your business does.“

“Hi. My name is Andy Black. I do those little ads on Google.”

No need for an elevator pitch.

No need for a website.

No need for a business card.

No need for a company name.

No need for a USP.

No need for a portfolio.


Have a think why folks sometimes button-holed me at the coffee break or asked for my email address.

The same happened for web designers, social media managers, and many other businesses types in the room.

“Oh, you do print banners? I know someone who needs some.”


Have a think why it didn’t work when someone “pitched” the room.

 

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[Andy Black]

Here's a video chatting about a lot of this stuff:
> AndyTalks with Sonny about getting his 1st digital marketing client

 

[Zyanwc]

Things to note about letting everyone know what you do:

Show, Don't Tell

Don't TELL people you "do AdWords" or "build Websites" or whatever.

SHOW them.

Tell stories that SHOW you do it. Stories are what people remember. Stories are what people will tell other people when they refer you on.

"Oh, I know a guy who does AdWords. He helped his electrician friend get going by running ads and finding out that 5,000 of the 10,000 searches one month were to do with washing machine, cooker, and oven repairs. They then built washing machine, cooker, and oven repair websites and shutdown the electrican website. His friend’s phone then leapt off the hook."



Don't say "PM me"

Add so much freaking value that people reach out to you instead.


Ask about them first

Him: "So what do you do Andy?"

Me: "Oh, I work for myself. What is it that you do again?"

Him: (Reply...)

Me: "Oh, so you're a plumber? Do you work for yourself?"

Him: (Reply...)

Me: “Actually, I help plumbers get more phone calls using those little ads on Google."

[Branch 1]: Him: "So you do AdWords?"

(Game on! I didn't call them AdWords...)

[Branch 2] Him: "I never click on those ads."

Me: "Haha. Everyone says that, but I think Google makes $200 million a day from people clicking on them."

blah blah

BOOM GOT EM!!!

 

[Andy Black]

I’ve grown my business building relationships. I had a great chat with @Kak about that here:
> Kak & Andy discuss the importance of building relationships in business

 

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[Andy Black]

Talk about limiting beliefs.

If you're a digital marketer you do NOT have to generate leads for your business using your own services.

 

[Black_Dragon43]

Talk about limiting beliefs.

If you're a digital marketer you do NOT have to generate leads for your business using your own services.

View attachment 34543

Hmm, they are not limiting beliefs @Andy Black! Rest assured, it is a political strategy meant to paint you as inferior to him (the competition). Like when coaches who teach other coaches say that you must have a coach of your own - you can't coach people without it. They "claim" they have coaches of their own too!!

In other words, in the language for smart people: "Keep coaching with us, you need it to be a successful coach!!"

This guy is saying "I know what I'm talking about, I run ads for myself, and put my own money where my mouth is. Andy doesn't". That's what he's getting at. And he may not even be running any ads. Still says it, because people don't check.

People on social media can be so dishonest it's really unbelievable. In recent days I have been shocked by the realization that on social media, when for example a woman says that so and so book about the law of attraction changed her life, the best thing ever, etc. she is not doing it because it's true. In fact, she may never even have READ the book, let alone have it changed her life. But she is just saying that for status. To build a brand. To gather followers. That's what she got taught by the guru next door.

It honestly disgusted me.

 

[Kid]

Talk about limiting beliefs.

If you're a digital marketer you do NOT have to generate leads for your business using your own services.

View attachment 34543

Good one Andy.
Its like saying that if you want contract with Fortune 500 company, you should do TV advertisements.

 

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[Andy Black]

Hmm, they are not limiting beliefs @Andy Black! Rest assured, it is a political strategy meant to paint you as inferior to him (the competition). Like when coaches who teach other coaches say that you must have a coach of your own - you can't coach people without it. They "claim" they have coaches of their own too!!

In other words, in the language for smart people: "Keep coaching with us, you need it to be a successful coach!!"

This guy is saying "I know what I'm talking about, I run ads for myself, and put my own money where my mouth is. Andy doesn't". That's what he's getting at. And he may not even be running any ads. Still says it, because people don't check.

People on social media can be so dishonest it's really unbelievable. In recent days I have been shocked by the realization that on social media, when for example a woman says that so and so book about the law of attraction changed her life, the best thing ever, etc. she is not doing it because it's true. In fact, she may never even have READ the book, let alone have it changed her life. But she is just saying that for status. To build a brand. To gather followers. That's what she got taught by the guru next door.

It honestly disgusted me.

Hmmm... I hadn't thought of that. Interesting.

I could go in all guns blazing, but I'm giving the guy replying to me the rope to hang himself. Tbh... why I'm in a Facebook group for Google Ads is beyond me.

Good one Andy.
Its like saying that if you want contract with Fortune 500 company, you should do TV advertisements.

It's like saying... if you want to sell TV ads to companies then you need to use TV ads or how would you know what you're doing. Errr... because the companies that we've run TV ads for get results?

 

[Black_Dragon43]

I could go in all guns blazing, but I'm giving the guy replying to me the rope to hang himself.

Yeah, I think your approach is correct for you. It's important to stay true to who you are.

Tbh... why I'm in a Facebook group for Google Ads is beyond me.

At my agency we made this mistake as well... to hang in a group for sales funnels in our case. That place is a MESS. Everyone there is trying to sell something. I don't even think that there are any buyers. And if they are there, they are outnumbered 10:1 by the sellers. Most posts are created by sellers to show how good they are and build their reputation.

Has it ever happened to you on social media to be approached by someone for a "chat", and then it actually turned out that it wasn't a chat at all, but an awkward attempt to sell you to their services, where the purpose was clear almost from the very first question they asked?

Errr... because the companies that we've run TV ads for get results?

Yeah, but their argument will be "Well, if you believe that TV ads work so well, why aren't you running them yourself? See? Andy doesn't really believe in TV ads. If he did, if he was 100% certain in the quality of his services, then he would be running them himself. He would put his money where his mouth is! But no, he's just happy to take the risk with other people's money, not like us. We believe TV ads are the absolute best marketing method out there - that's why we run them ourselves!"

And honestly, I've had the realisation that people do not only deceive others. They also deceive themselves. I've realised that most of these people actually believe their own BS. It's true that there are also some evil geniuses out there, who actually plan this and understand very well that these are not their real beliefs, and it's all just a façade to get more business. But many of the others actually convince themselves that these beliefs are true, and have to be true.

 

[Andy Black]

Yeah, I think your approach is correct for you. It's important to stay true to who you are.


At my agency we made this mistake as well... to hang in a group for sales funnels in our case. That place is a MESS. Everyone there is trying to sell something. I don't even think that there are any buyers. And if they are there, they are outnumbered 10:1 by the sellers. Most posts are created by sellers to show how good they are and build their reputation.

Has it ever happened to you on social media to be approached by someone for a "chat", and then it actually turned out that it wasn't a chat at all, but an awkward attempt to sell you to their services, where the purpose was clear almost from the very first question they asked?


Yeah, but their argument will be "Well, if you believe that TV ads work so well, why aren't you running them yourself? See? Andy doesn't really believe in TV ads. If he did, if he was 100% certain in the quality of his services, then he would be running them himself. He would put his money where his mouth is! But no, he's just happy to take the risk with other people's money, not like us. We believe TV ads are the absolute best marketing method out there - that's why we run them ourselves!"

And honestly, I've had the realisation that people do not only deceive others. They also deceive themselves. I've realised that most of these people actually believe their own BS. It's true that there are also some evil geniuses out there, who actually plan this and understand very well that these are not their real beliefs, and it's all just a façade to get more business. But many of the others actually convince themselves that these beliefs are true, and have to be true.

"Sales is a screening process." (Blaise Brosnan)

"How you do anything is how you do everything."

If people are using that argument then I'll nod, smile, and move on.


...

Maaan, I'm allergic to the online marketing world. I enjoy being in Facebook groups of local business owners. I want to get better at business, not Google Ads. I enjoy the chatter, and the learnings.

 

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[Black_Dragon43]

If people are using that argument then I'll nod, smile, and move on.

Do you think that that's for the best though? This stuff gets me very riled up, because all this "fake" stuff, and lying actually makes the entire marketplace worse for everyone - for clients, and for sellers. Your potential prospects no longer trust you, so you suffer, and your clients struggle to find a reliable supplier because of all the BS out there. In addition, a lot of small business owners make VERY costly mistakes which put them out of business.

You yourself mentioned that when you tried to join a group for Irish business owners, the initial reaction was to label you as a marketer and not to trust you. Why do you think that is? Because these small business owners have seen on their own skin how dangerous the lies and fake information out there associated with marketing is. So we're all hurt by it.

Have you read Cialdini's Influence?

At the end of each chapter, the way to circumvent the method of influence discussed is always to be aware that it is a deception. And that it is carried out with ulterior motives. That things are not what they seem, or what the opposing party is trying to make them look like.

Cialdini goes further, and says that we have a duty to unmask the deceivers, since it is the only way to stop them.

Now, if every time when we encounter deception we turn away and go a different path, are we really helping to build a better marketplace for everyone? Are we really doing the most to help our clients?

 

[maverick]

Results is all what matters. This is my approach and these are the results that we've gotten for other clients.

People that use ad hominem attacks are weak. Be indifferent towards them.

Funnily enough, politicians only seem to be using ad hominem attacks nowadays.