Age old debate: Mac VS Microsoft PC

[Fox]

@Andy Black @Fox can one of u pull out the Mac vs pc convo and create a new thread? It’s a bit big for the random chat thread.thx!

Looks like Andy beat me to it.

Hope you are feeling better!

 

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[Fox]

Definitely team Mac here.

I just gave my GF my old mac recently and it still worked fine from 2012/2013.

I also own another new Macbook, mini mac, iPhone etc.

What I like is what people said above - it just works. You turn it on and within a few seconds, you are good to go.

Back when I worked in oil I spent a lot on a Sony laptop - it was horrible. EVERY time I tried to turn it on it was updating something or thinking about its own existence - anything but actually just turning on.

Even when you closed it for just a second and reopened it - it was like you hadn't turned it on in years lol.

The only Mac product that annoys me is the phones. I am pretty sure they build them purposely to fail after 2-3 years.
I can literally see the camera quality getting worse after a year for no reason.

To sum up, why I love Mac is because I never have to think about using them - they just work.
With any other laptop or computer, I am wondering what it is doing 60%+ of the time.

 

[MTF]

To sum up, why I love Mac is because I never have to think about using them - they just work.
With any other laptop or computer, I am wondering what it is doing 60%+ of the time.

Unless you tried every PC brand you can't say that. There are shitty PC brands and good PC brands while there's only one (terribly overpriced and overhyped ) Mac.

I'm not sure why you bought a Sony laptop but the idea in itself was terrible LOL.

 

[Guest-5ty5s4]

I've owned both, and I like both for different things.

Macs are the best for light computer use: emailing, videos, browsing, etc. The UI is so clean and simple.
Macs are the best for recording music, making movies, and other creative stuff. Apple has great creative software and the trackpad is amazing.

PCs are the best for programming (unless you're programming for other apple devices).
PCs are the best for gaming. Overheating? GPU? SSD, HDD, CPU? Better value, better parts, change them out, etc.
PCs give you the most customization and power. You can dig into the bowels of your computer more easily with a PC, and you aren't chained to an ecosystem. - Windows 7 and 10 are better for this, I hated Windows 8.

Pros and cons.

So yeah I own or owned Mac, Asus, HP, Dell, etc... have friends who build their own PCs and those are all Windows or Linux.

I can get the same specs on a PC for $900 that would cost me $2000 on a Mac. If you have plenty to spend, this is a non-issue.

I also used my last Asus computer from 2011 to 2021 - only got rid of it because I wanted to upgrade - thing was still a champ. The Macbook I had was outdated after 3 years. It was a great 3 years though!

 

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[JAJT]

I'm a "forever Windows / PC" guy, for one simple reason - I've been using them and building them at a well above average, near expert level for decades and I'm really, really damn good with them.

There's literally zero point in me switching over to Mac as long as Windows/PCs continues to be a relevant product in the market on the simple basis that it would be inefficient and extremely frustrating for me to do so at this point.

That being said - I don't hate Macs or think people are wrong for switching to them. They clearly have a passionate user base with enough converts for me to admit they probably have an objectively superior product, especially for the casual, non-techy user. I just can't be enticed to switch when none of the benefits seem to apply to the kind of user who doesn't have time consuming issues with Windows / PCs.

 

[ryanbleau]

Linux. so many varieties and you can run it on virtually everything. Doesn't eat up resources like you have them to spare and you can get so many that have the emulation built in. I prefer Kali but POP seems to be the hot number these days with windows and Mac emulation and themes

 

[ji612]

Between windows, mac & linux - linux, free & open source software gives me more control over my system & software.

 

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[ljean]

I havent had any notable issues with Windows PC since the garbage ME edition in 2000ish. Usually my laptop hinges break or some such is why I end up upgrading.

 

[Jon L]

to me, you're just trading one set of problems for another.

Macs can be amazing to work with, until they're not.

One time, my iPhone didn't show up in iTunes. Why? No clue. So, I googled. Found a list of 10-20 possible things that could cause this. Several of them required I go to the command line and start typing unix commands. How is that easier than Windows, where you'd be presented with a specific error message that you could google? It turned out that my version of iTunes wasn't up to date. Updating it fixed the problem. But that took a bit.

How about trying to change the backup location of an iPhone? Sorry, unless you're comfortable executing a long list of commands at the command line, you're out of luck. So, my 64GB iPhone backup took up 1/8 the space of my 512GB MBP's SSD drive instead of using my network drive.

Want to make sure your pictures are backed up to the cloud? You'll find (3 years ago, anyway), that they're likely not, as Macs store all your pictures in a database file that many online backup systems never get around to backing up.

I do miss my retina display, though. Nothing quite like it.

 

[Guest-5ty5s4]

to me, you're just trading one set of problems for another.

Macs can be amazing to work with, until they're not.

One time, my iPhone didn't show up in iTunes. Why? No clue. So, I googled. Found a list of 10-20 possible things that could cause this. Several of them required I go to the command line and start typing unix commands. How is that easier than Windows, where you'd be presented with a specific error message that you could google? It turned out that my version of iTunes wasn't up to date. Updating it fixed the problem. But that took a bit.

How about trying to change the backup location of an iPhone? Sorry, unless you're comfortable executing a long list of commands at the command line, you're out of luck. So, my 64GB iPhone backup took up 1/8 the space of my 512GB MBP's SSD drive instead of using my network drive.

Want to make sure your pictures are backed up to the cloud? You'll find (3 years ago, anyway), that they're likely not, as Macs store all your pictures in a database file that many online backup systems never get around to backing up.

I do miss my retina display, though. Nothing quite like it.

this is my biggest problem with Apple.

Everything works seamlessly, until you try to do anything differently from the way they designed it to.

Then it becomes absolutely impossible.

 

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[Jon L]

this is my biggest problem with Apple.

Everything works seamlessly, until you try to do anything differently from the way they designed it to.

Then it becomes absolutely impossible.

yes ... and figuring out what that one 'annointed' way is, ain't easy - especially if you're the least bit technical. I just expect to be able to do X. When I can't, its quite frustrating.

I'm sure that if I used the proper backup solution, things would just work and my pictures would be safe, but first, how was I supposed to know that was an issue? I just happened to stumble upon it when I read other people's horror stories about years worth of irreplaceable family pictures disappearing forever. And second, what is the proper backup solution? I know there was a backup device available, but what if I also wanted that backed up to the cloud?

 

[Guest-5ty5s4]

yes ... and figuring out what that one 'annointed' way is, ain't easy - especially if you're the least bit technical. I just expect to be able to do X. When I can't, its quite frustrating.

I'm sure that if I used the proper backup solution, things would just work and my pictures would be safe, but first, how was I supposed to know that was an issue? I just happened to stumble upon it when I read other people's horror stories about years worth of irreplaceable family pictures disappearing forever. And second, what is the proper backup solution? I know there was a backup device available, but what if I also wanted that backed up to the cloud?

If you're stuck or confused, the answer is always whatever requires you to pay them.

Backup not working? Pay for iCloud. Android having problems with your computer? Buy an iPhone. Charger not charging your iPhone? Oh, it's not an official Apple brand charger, go buy one of theirs and it will work.

That is the "walled garden," or so they call it.

 

[Jon L]

If you're stuck or confused, the answer is always whatever requires you to pay them.

Backup not working? Pay for iCloud. Android having problems with your computer? Buy an iPhone. Charger not charging your iPhone? Oh, it's not an official Apple brand charger, go buy one of theirs and it will work.

That is the "walled garden," or so they call it.

That's quite funny.
But if you don't trust just one backup system? I have my pictures and other important business stuff in dropbox, plus my entire computer is backed up (including the dropbox folders) by a separate cloud system.

 

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[Guest-5ty5s4]

That's quite funny.
But if you don't trust just one backup system? I have my pictures and other important business stuff in dropbox, plus my entire computer is backed up (including the dropbox folders) by a separate cloud system.

hey, me too. This is my complaint against them.

Their products are shiny and they work well, but I hate this aspect of Apple. The standardization of parts and hardware was a great revolution in the world and in industry. This exclusive community of products with planned obsolescence is worse, in my opinion.

Great products, terrible how they are outdated so fast and you must buy into the whole family of products or it craps out.

 

[DWX]

I used to be a Mac-man myself, but I converted back to Windows a couple of years. No regrets.

More customisation. Access to a wider library of software. And still snappy AF.

The only thing I missed was the keyboard, but Microsoft‘s one isn’t too shabby.

 

[nothingness]

Honestly, as a techie, I think too many people spend too much time thinking about their machines and OS and not just producing. It becomes a massive action fake and the object of mental masturbation for people who aren't in that part of the technical world.

For example, your setup may be great, but how much time did you spend learning the OS and the setup? How much time doing the initial configuration and research? If you grow a normal, non-technical business, how hard will it be to find people that can work with you? Did you cut the size of the labor pool or increase the billing rate of those who can help you? You might be able to take that on. I don't know your background, but should most people? Can you bill for the hours you spent learning? Can most people?

A lot of people seriously disregard the amount of time spent learning a new OS so they can save a few dollars of what is often called Microsoft tax, but Windows is just easier and better supported than Linux for most things people want or need to do. If someone is a computer enthusiast, then fine, learn whatever you want. But it all may come at a cost of time and a cost of people.

Everyone has to figure in their time to learn the thing to get it done. I think many if not most people should just avoid Linux and use Windows or Mac. No learning new skills and you can go to the store to get a drop in replacement. More games and other commercial software. Best Buy is 5 min away and the OS is pre-configured. If you're a geek, then Linux or some Unix variant is great. I tend to use a Unix myself, but would I run a small office on it when I might need non-technical workers? Not a chance unless I've also provided software that is turn-key or web based for the people to run.

I totally agree, but here's the kicker, I enjoy learning how to configure and fix things in Linux. When it goes wrong it forces me to use the terminal to fix it. As a result of fixing problems in Linux, I have proficiency in configuring servers. When I'm hosting a business and it goes wrong, I don't have to wait for customer service, I can just log in via ssh and see what's up and fix it, or post a question to one of the linux communities and 9/10 get an answer within minutes. I don't need to pay extra for a managed server when I can do all that myself, which can be as easy as running a script which installs an OS and configures it, if you are deploying servers. I can patch it and harden it without having to pay a company to do that. Just switching to the hardened kernel, turning on UFW and configuring Firejail hardens 80% of a linux system. If I ran a business running a lot of servers, I could just hire an expert to do the really hard work for the remainder 20%. It's the good ole 80/20 rule. Whereas Windows is practically created as spyware/malware Microsoft's Software Is Malware - GNU Project - Free Software Foundation

I run a PiHole on my home network. Linux never tries to send anything out. Apple, Microsoft, and Amazon Kindle devices are constantly trying to send analytics to their respective services. It's nuts!

 

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[Kak]

Unless you tried every PC brand you can't say that. There are shitty PC brands and good PC brands while there's only one (terribly overpriced and overhyped ) Mac.

I'm not sure why you bought a Sony laptop but the idea in itself was terrible LOL.

ASUS is highly regarded though. And Sony stuff is almost always rockstar quality.

I’ve bought a lot of computers in my life. Every Dell, HP, Microsoft Surface, Acer, and Toshiba I have ever purchased sucked.

This ASUS has been my favorite so far and it still sucks. Anything apple I’ve ever owned was at least solid, although mostly uninspiring.

 

[ji612]

I run a PiHole on my home network. Linux never tries to send anything out. Apple, Microsoft, and Amazon Kindle devices are constantly trying to send analytics to their respective services. It's nuts!

Why I switched to linux full time initially. There's no privacy on windows or mac.

 

[PureA]

I've been using Mac's over 10 years at this point. Never had a problem the whole time. Raw specs get beaten everytime by windows machines, but it just works 'better'. Everything is seamless, always.

If you want a taste get the m1 MBA for 999. It's such F*cking good value. 1 week in you'll be converted for life and be looking at the pros (if you even care to upgrade) MBA will have more than enough power from what I understand your workflow to be.

 

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[ji612]

I guess windows & macs are the norm. Lol.

 

[Odysseus M Jones]

I need it to turn off and on,

That's the issue for most people and it's what computer repair guys never tell you or they'd never have work.

My good friend in the business told me this.

Never turn a device off. Phone or computer.

Put it to sleep, never hibernate.
Hibernate is worse than hard boot.

 

[ryanbleau]

to me, you're just trading one set of problems for another.

Macs can be amazing to work with, until they're not.

One time, my iPhone didn't show up in iTunes. Why? No clue. So, I googled. Found a list of 10-20 possible things that could cause this. Several of them required I go to the command line and start typing unix commands. How is that easier than Windows, where you'd be presented with a specific error message that you could google? It turned out that my version of iTunes wasn't up to date. Updating it fixed the problem. But that took a bit.

How about trying to change the backup location of an iPhone? Sorry, unless you're comfortable executing a long list of commands at the command line, you're out of luck. So, my 64GB iPhone backup took up 1/8 the space of my 512GB MBP's SSD drive instead of using my network drive.

Want to make sure your pictures are backed up to the cloud? You'll find (3 years ago, anyway), that they're likely not, as Macs store all your pictures in a database file that many online backup systems never get around to backing up.

I do miss my retina display, though. Nothing quite like it.

Fun facts about the Apple update that killed the windows handshake. I was working in airplane guidance systems when the os update happened it killed the ability for a apple device to talk to a windows pc without having to download a new driver. Got a call from the airforce requesting info on why all of a sudden their pilots couldnt connect to the gps guidance and logging systems. They used their phones to transfer the paths to the flight system. Was provided the direct access number to Apple R&D by the military to get the ball rolling on a new update to circumvent the driver. It was a tense month and a half and pilots world wide were trying to return their systems due to the issue. Cost us around 2 mil to swap out systems worldwide until the update got pushed. Long story short, i hate apple products

 

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[nothingness]

That's the issue for most people and it's what computer repair guys never tell you or they'd never have work.

My good friend in the business told me this.

Never turn a device off. Phone or computer.

Hard boots are evil, plus the expansion and contraction doesn't do your hardware any favours.
Computers generate massive amounts of heat.

Put it to sleep, never hibernate.
Hibernate is worse than hard boot.

My newest Windows notebook is 7 years old.
The oldest is maybe 15-20.
Phone is a 2014/5 Nexus 6.
Admittedly that died of battery failure late last year.
But I got another one on Amazon for 100 bucks.
3 gig of RAM and an AMOLED screen.
Beats those skinny screened mid range newbies.

Why do we have skinny screens when we have savanna vision?

Rant over.

TLDR

Only ever put your computer to sleep.
Never shut down or hibernate.

I never even put mine to sleep, I just turn off the networking when I go to bed if I have nothing downloading. The only time I reboot is for for full updates when required.

 

[Andy Black]

Looks like Andy beat me to it.

Hope you are feeling better!

Wasn’t me! Must have been MJ. Yeah, hope you’re feeling better MJ.

 

[Andy Black]

Honestly, as a techie, I think too many people spend too much time thinking about their machines and OS and not just producing. It becomes a massive action fake and the object of mental masturbation for people who aren't in that part of the technical world.

For example, your setup may be great, but how much time did you spend learning the OS and the setup? How much time doing the initial configuration and research? If you grow a normal, non-technical business, how hard will it be to find people that can work with you? Did you cut the size of the labor pool or increase the billing rate of those who can help you? You might be able to take that on. I don't know your background, but should most people? Can you bill for the hours you spent learning? Can most people?

A lot of people seriously disregard the amount of time spent learning a new OS so they can save a few dollars of what is often called Microsoft tax, but Windows is just easier and better supported than Linux for most things people want or need to do. If someone is a computer enthusiast, then fine, learn whatever you want. But it all may come at a cost of time and a cost of people.

Everyone has to figure in their time to learn the thing to get it done. I think many if not most people should just avoid Linux and use Windows or Mac. No learning new skills and you can go to the store to get a drop in replacement. More games and other commercial software. Best Buy is 5 min away and the OS is pre-configured. If you're a geek, then Linux or some Unix variant is great. I tend to use a Unix myself, but would I run a small office on it when I might need non-technical workers? Not a chance unless I've also provided software that is turn-key or web based for the people to run.

I agree with this.

I used to be a UNIX SA. I don’t even have a Linux machine. I get laptops from the biggest store in town just so I can take them back and speak to someone in person if there’s ever any issues. I know I’m paying more than ordering online, but I’m paying for the ease.

I wouldn’t switch to a Mac even if there were small speed advantages purely because of the cost to learn the new OS, and because my kids are all on Windows gaming laptops now.

Convenience wins for me. I’ve even dropped Excel to use Google Sheets as they’re so easy to share.

 

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[Walter Hay]

HELP!!!!
All this talk of Linux and Mac V Microsoft makes me wish I knew something about the subject.

My big problem is that every time Microsoft force an update on me, I dread opening up my laptop to see what damage they have done.

For over 2 years they have been sabotaging my Office 2010 program little by little, so that after each update I find that there are features that no longer exist. They make so many other changes, such as access to apps etc., etc., that it's like using a new machine.

I like Office 2010. I have been using it for over 11 years, as all the bright ones among you can no doubt work out. I am very quick with all the typing that I have to do - I know how to do all the fancy layout that I want - can make corrections in a flash, but they are trying to force me to change to Office 365.

If anyone could guide me on how to install a different OS such as Linux I would appreciate it. I have tried using my daughter's Mac and am not keen on making a change to Mac.

Walter
P.S. I looked up the link provide by @nothingness: Microsoft's Software Is Malware and I am a believer.

 

[nothingness]

Manjaro or Ubuntu are your best bets as an intro OS with a GUI.

You can even install it alongside Windows in case you don't like it (but be prepared for Windows Update to ruin the boot loader for it). There's plenty of youtube videos that describe the entire process if you have more than one computer to use at a time. You can run it from the USB stick without installing it to see if you like it but it won't save any changed / files in between reboots.

It's as simple as download it, put it on a USB stick (probably using Rufus, in Windows) and then installing it if you like it.

 

[TheCj]

The best analogy I've heard:

Mac is for drivers
Windows is for mechanics

Although that analogy applies less and less with today's software and hardware than it did 3-10yrs ago.

As a windows/android user, I think the Mac formula has shown to be the winning formula for manufacturers/developers. Mac products just work, easily, simply, and do what the user wants. This leads to giving the user an empowering feeling. No one wants to feel frustrated or like an idiot. We all want to do what everyone else is doing on their phones or online. By limiting their hardware and software option's they ensure a certain level of user experience at the sacrifice of choice, freedom, and ownership.

Windows and Google are adopting this formula now. Every android phone is more and more restricted. Windows has learned it doesn't want its users paying once and using the operating system for decades. The latest Operating systems are more limited/restrictive on working with older hardware.

Tesla follows this formula with their cars. Everything is Tesla owned and sold with no third-party customizations, or you risk being off the Tesla network.

 

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[c4n]

A HP ZBook (Fury) + Windows = never had any problems, using it daily. Gave my 6.5-year old ZBook to my brother and it still runs 3D software easily.
You need to stop buying low-end consumer Windows stuff


Edit to add: and make sure you turn all auto-updates off

 

[MJ DeMarco]

Been using Macs for over a decade, overall I see no reason to consider anything else.

When I used PC's, either desktop or laptop, the experience was always detrimental to productivity, between virus updates, software updates, blue screens and hourglasses, just talking about it gives me anxiety. I'm sure things have changed today but I have no reason to look back.