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Is black magic the real key to wealth? (And other lies we sell ourselves)

Fox

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Excuse my approach but i could'nt help but ask. Is black magic or lucky charms the real key wealth?

I live in South Africa and we have diverse cultures from muslims, indians, africans and whites. One thing I've noticed among the rich here is that most have some sort of belief and use black magic to convince other people to do business with them or to push their product.

Notice how some people will start a business from scratch and get tons of investors in a short period of time. Notice also how a flawed product will sell like hot cakes. I read a wealth building book some time ago and the author wrote that the main key to business is to persuade people or convince them.

I live in the east coast of South Africa where there is a high population of indians. and guess what... most of them are successful and admit to use some sort of Voodoo to grow their business.

So is this the missing part that every successful writer will skip and not tell readers for some reason. I know that making millions takes a lot of work but is there some other hidden factor that puts odds in your favor...? something like BLACK MAGIC?

Actually, some of your post is decent. If I can chop it around it looks like this...

Magic stuff:

- Is black magic or lucky charms the real key wealth?
- One thing I've noticed among the rich here is that most have some sort of belief and use black magic to convince other people to do business with them or to push their product.
- guess what... most of them are successful and admit to use some sort of Voodoo to grow their business.
- something like BLACK MAGIC?

Other observations you have made:


- Notice how some people will start a business from scratch and get tons of investors in a short period of time.
- Notice also how a flawed product will sell like hot cakes.
- I read a wealth building book some time ago and the author wrote that the main key to business is to persuade people or convince them.
- I know that making millions takes a lot of work

You got half the puzzle.
You just got to stop letting your brain being lazy and linking these observations to magic.

You already know that some products sell better than others even when inferior (marketing, sales and persuasion) and that some people seem to attract money and investors faster than others (networking, sales and persuasion).

Also, you have noted hard work pays off.

I would look outside your country to places where magic is not even a factor and something people don't even think about - the USA, Europe, Canada, Australia etc. How are these people succeeding?

Also, keep in mind that people like to tell stories and simplify their success to protect their business.

The 48 laws of power would be a good read too for you.
And of course, the Fastlane Millionaire if you haven't already.

Success is half maths, half mentality.
 
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ChrisV

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MJ DeMarco

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@lunga ngcobo -- "Black magic" has absolutely nothing to do with success. "Black magic" is simply your local community's way of describing something they don't understand: why some people can become successful and others don't. It's your version on a very niche basis of "slowlane paradigm".

Let's run through some examples from a coupe different parts of the world to give you a better understanding of what's happening.

How can he afford that Lamborghini at a young age?
  • America: He's probably a basketball player, or some kind of athlete.
  • Eastern Europe: It has to be mafia. No one becomes that rich on their own.
  • Southeast Asia: His parents must've had a successful business that he inherited.
  • East Coast of Africa: Black Magic
  • Other Places: Other bullshit

People don't understand success, so they come up with their own explanations. They have limited beliefs, limited knowledge, limited experiences... they simply can't think on the same level as someone whose made it so they come up with their own explanation.

And what propagates this thinking further is that the successful people will agree with your flawed assessment since it allows them to maintain their wealth. You ask some Indian guy if got rich because of black magic? F*ck yeah he did! And don't mess with him or you'll be cursed next.

The truth is... end of the day there's only one real way to get rich, and that's by providing value.

You create something that other people value - whether that be a product or a service, and you find a way to deliver it to them in a value chain that allows you to make a profit.

People need roads? Ok. You create a concrete paving company, build them the roads, and keep some money for yourself.

People want pizza? Ok. You find a way to make pizza they'll like and sell it to them.

People want cheap clothes? Ok. You find a way to import cheap clothes and make a small margin.

It's all about finding a way to deliver value. It has absolutely nothing to do with black magic.

And this is why the thread is not landfilled. Rep in a repless era! ;)
 

lunga ngcobo

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Actually, some of your post is decent. If I can chop it around it looks like this...

Magic stuff:

- Is black magic or lucky charms the real key wealth?
- One thing I've noticed among the rich here is that most have some sort of belief and use black magic to convince other people to do business with them or to push their product.
- guess what... most of them are successful and admit to use some sort of Voodoo to grow their business.
- something like BLACK MAGIC?

Other observations you have made:


- Notice how some people will start a business from scratch and get tons of investors in a short period of time.
- Notice also how a flawed product will sell like hot cakes.
- I read a wealth building book some time ago and the author wrote that the main key to business is to persuade people or convince them.
- I know that making millions takes a lot of work

You got half the puzzle.
You just got to stop letting your brain being lazy and linking these observations to magic.

You already know that some products sell better than others even when inferior (marketing, sales and persuasion) and that some people seem to attract money and investors faster than others (networking, sales and persuasion).

Also, you have noted hard work pays off.

I would look outside your country to places where magic is not even a factor and something people don't even think about - the USA, Europe, Canada, Australia etc. How are these people succeeding?

Also, keep in mind that people like to tell stories and simplify their success to protect their business.

The 48 laws of power would be a good read too for you.
And of course, the Fastlane Millionaire if you haven't already.

Success is half maths, half mentality.
thanks you for the advice and a dose of reality. i posted this thread to get rid of my childhood beliefs that i was raised with.

I now have a full picture of what it really takes to make it outside Africa. hard work, hard work and more hard work. Even if Voodoo does work, people who use it have a flawed mentality, the same mentality i desperately am trying to get rid of.
 
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Fox

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thanks you for the advice and a dose of reality. i posted this thread to get rid of my childhood beliefs that i was raised with.

I now have a full picture of what it really takes to make it outside Africa. hard work, hard work and more hard work. Even if Voodoo does work, people who use it have a flawed mentality, the same mentality i desperately am trying to get rid of.

You're welcome. We all have them. I used to think you HAD to be born rich to ever make it.

Get some books on growth mindset and self-image. They will help in a big way.
 

lunga ngcobo

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And this is why the thread is not landfilled. Rep in a repless era! ;)
It is an honor to finally have you MJ DeMarco comment on my thread. The purpose of My Thread is to get views from people outside africa about this topic. There are a lot of people here who feel that wealth is something that only comes to people who use magic powers (voodoo). the replies frm international business men have freed me coz now i know i was right. wealth is a step by step process that is tied to time and hard work.

Now you have one more thing to add on your next book... Africa Needs your advice ;)
 

lunga ngcobo

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You're welcome. We all have them. I used to think you HAD to be born rich to ever make it.

Get some books on growth mindset and self-image. They will help in a big way.
Thank you very much for taking the time to understand my thread. talk to you soon:thumbsup:
 
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lunga ngcobo

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And this is why the thread is not landfilled. Rep in a repless era! ;)
@lunga ngcobo -- "Black magic" has absolutely nothing to do with success. "Black magic" is simply your local community's way of describing something they don't understand: why some people can become successful and others don't. It's your version on a very niche basis of "slowlane paradigm".

Let's run through some examples from a coupe different parts of the world to give you a better understanding of what's happening.

How can he afford that Lamborghini at a young age?
  • America: He's probably a basketball player, or some kind of athlete.
  • Eastern Europe: It has to be mafia. No one becomes that rich on their own.
  • Southeast Asia: His parents must've had a successful business that he inherited.
  • East Coast of Africa: Black Magic
  • Other Places: Other bullshit

People don't understand success, so they come up with their own explanations. They have limited beliefs, limited knowledge, limited experiences... they simply can't think on the same level as someone whose made it so they come up with their own explanation.

And what propagates this thinking further is that the successful people will agree with your flawed assessment since it allows them to maintain their wealth. You ask some Indian guy if got rich because of black magic? F*ck yeah he did! And don't mess with him or you'll be cursed next.

The truth is... end of the day there's only one real way to get rich, and that's by providing value.

You create something that other people value - whether that be a product or a service, and you find a way to deliver it to them in a value chain that allows you to make a profit.

People need roads? Ok. You create a concrete paving company, build them the roads, and keep some money for yourself.

People want pizza? Ok. You find a way to make pizza they'll like and sell it to them.

People want cheap clothes? Ok. You find a way to import cheap clothes and make a small margin.

It's all about finding a way to deliver value. It has absolutely nothing to do with black magic.
@lunga ngcobo -- "Black magic" has absolutely nothing to do with success. "Black magic" is simply your local community's way of describing something they don't understand: why some people can become successful and others don't. It's your version on a very niche basis of "slowlane paradigm".

Let's run through some examples from a coupe different parts of the world to give you a better understanding of what's happening.

How can he afford that Lamborghini at a young age?
  • America: He's probably a basketball player, or some kind of athlete.
  • Eastern Europe: It has to be mafia. No one becomes that rich on their own.
  • Southeast Asia: His parents must've had a successful business that he inherited.
  • East Coast of Africa: Black Magic
  • Other Places: Other bullshit

People don't understand success, so they come up with their own explanations. They have limited beliefs, limited knowledge, limited experiences... they simply can't think on the same level as someone whose made it so they come up with their own explanation.

And what propagates this thinking further is that the successful people will agree with your flawed assessment since it allows them to maintain their wealth. You ask some Indian guy if got rich because of black magic? F*ck yeah he did! And don't mess with him or you'll be cursed next.

The truth is... end of the day there's only one real way to get rich, and that's by providing value.

You create something that other people value - whether that be a product or a service, and you find a way to deliver it to them in a value chain that allows you to make a profit.

People need roads? Ok. You create a concrete paving company, build them the roads, and keep some money for yourself.

People want pizza? Ok. You find a way to make pizza they'll like and sell it to them.

People want cheap clothes? Ok. You find a way to import cheap clothes and make a small margin.

It's all about finding a way to deliver value. It has absolutely nothing to do with black magic.
thanks for the
@lunga ngcobo -- "Black magic" has absolutely nothing to do with success. "Black magic" is simply your local community's way of describing something they don't understand: why some people can become successful and others don't. It's your version on a very niche basis of "slowlane paradigm".

Let's run through some examples from a coupe different parts of the world to give you a better understanding of what's happening.

How can he afford that Lamborghini at a young age?
  • America: He's probably a basketball player, or some kind of athlete.
  • Eastern Europe: It has to be mafia. No one becomes that rich on their own.
  • Southeast Asia: His parents must've had a successful business that he inherited.
  • East Coast of Africa: Black Magic
  • Other Places: Other bullshit

People don't understand success, so they come up with their own explanations. They have limited beliefs, limited knowledge, limited experiences... they simply can't think on the same level as someone whose made it so they come up with their own explanation.

And what propagates this thinking further is that the successful people will agree with your flawed assessment since it allows them to maintain their wealth. You ask some Indian guy if got rich because of black magic? F*ck yeah he did! And don't mess with him or you'll be cursed next.

The truth is... end of the day there's only one real way to get rich, and that's by providing value.

You create something that other people value - whether that be a product or a service, and you find a way to deliver it to them in a value chain that allows you to make a profit.

People need roads? Ok. You create a concrete paving company, build them the roads, and keep some money for yourself.

People want pizza? Ok. You find a way to make pizza they'll like and sell it to them.

People want cheap clothes? Ok. You find a way to import cheap clothes and make a small margin.

It's all about finding a way to deliver value. It has absolutely nothing to do with black magic.
thanks for advice againtsALLODDS. It really made a difference in how i think. :thumbsup:
 

AgainstAllOdds

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thanks for the

thanks for advice againtsALLODDS. It really made a difference in how i think. :thumbsup:

If you can afford it, take a trip outside of South Africa to somewhere that's complete opposite. London, Singapore, New York. A place like that.

You spending time there for a week or two will put into perspective your local environment and challenge your beliefs. You'll quickly realize which beliefs you should hold, and which beliefs would be laughable outside of your bubble.

If you can't afford it, start watching more interviews by entrepreneurs form different places.
 

lunga ngcobo

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If you can afford it, take a trip outside of South Africa to somewhere that's complete opposite. London, Singapore, New York. A place like that.

You spending time there for a week or two will put into perspective your local environment and challenge your beliefs. You'll quickly realize which beliefs you should hold, and which beliefs would be laughable outside of your bubble.

If you can't afford it, start watching more interviews by entrepreneurs form different places.
thank you brother, already i was planning to visit USA florida. I was planning to live there for good. africa is not for me man. cant see myself making big here.

thank you so much bro... :thumbsup:
 
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Successful Steve

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You guys may laugh at black magic but I deal with high net worth individuals on a regular basis and quite a few of them have consulted Shamans, done ayahuasca experiences, or have been involved in the occult in some form.

I was surprised to learn some of the things these highly successful people told me because I thought only the poor or uneducated got involved in that stuff but it’s surprising the amount of wealthy people out there involved in that world.

Joe Rogan and Tim Ferris I believe have discussed psychedelics and experiences kinda like what the poster is referring to also.
 

Daniela101

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You guys may laugh at black magic but I deal with high net worth individuals on a regular basis and quite a few of them have consulted Shamans, done ayahuasca experiences, or have been involved in the occult in some form.

I was surprised to learn some of the things these highly successful people told me because I thought only the poor or uneducated got involved in that stuff but it’s surprising the amount of wealthy people out there involved in that world.

Joe Rogan and Tim Ferris I believe have discussed psychedelics and experiences kinda like what the poster is referring to also.
There's more to this world than what meets the eye.
 

Jeff Noel

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And naw man. It's an incredibly stupid thread, but not landfill. There's cultures out there that attribute everything to the supernatural and keep themselves from success.
Don't get me started on this "religion" thing :rofl:
 
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Jeff Noel

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You guys may laugh at black magic but I deal with high net worth individuals on a regular basis and quite a few of them have consulted Shamans, done ayahuasca experiences, or have been involved in the occult in some form.

I was surprised to learn some of the things these highly successful people told me because I thought only the poor or uneducated got involved in that stuff but it’s surprising the amount of wealthy people out there involved in that world.

Joe Rogan and Tim Ferris I believe have discussed psychedelics and experiences kinda like what the poster is referring to also.
Drugs are not magic. Magic is a fictious thing. Ayahuasca is a drug which makes you thing or rethink things differently. Psychedelics are acting on your brain and nerves, they're not magic.

If these things were legalized here, perhaps more studies could come out and science could detail everything that's going on in your body when you take these substances.

There's no magic. We're not in Harry Potter.
 

Successful Steve

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Drugs are not magic. Magic is a fictious thing. Ayahuasca is a drug which makes you thing or rethink things differently. Psychedelics are acting on your brain and nerves, they're not magic.

If these things were legalized here, perhaps more studies could come out and science could detail everything that's going on in your body when you take these substances.

There's no magic. We're not in Harry Potter.

Definitely not talking about some make believe magic. I guess when he referred to black magic I’m thinking about the umbrella term of the occult. To me it’s all the same - voodoo, black magic, tarot cards, shamanism, psychics, channeling spirits- I consider that one thing and I don’t think the poster was referring to Harry Potter magic that children watch. The people I’m referring to were talking to ‘spirits’ through Shamans and certain drug experiences.

I’ve taken psychedelics before but I don’t mess around with trying to seek out spirits and seeking out shamans. That’s a whole other level but I’m aware quite a few of the wealthy do it.
 

Monica Rose

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@lunga ngcobo -- "Black magic" has absolutely nothing to do with success. "Black magic" is simply your local community's way of describing something they don't understand: why some people can become successful and others don't. It's your version on a very niche basis of "slowlane paradigm".

Let's run through some examples from a coupe different parts of the world to give you a better understanding of what's happening.

How can he afford that Lamborghini at a young age?
  • America: He's probably a basketball player, or some kind of athlete.
  • Eastern Europe: It has to be mafia. No one becomes that rich on their own.
  • Southeast Asia: His parents must've had a successful business that he inherited.
  • East Coast of Africa: Black Magic
  • Other Places: Other bullshit

People don't understand success, so they come up with their own explanations. They have limited beliefs, limited knowledge, limited experiences... they simply can't think on the same level as someone whose made it so they come up with their own explanation.

And what propagates this thinking further is that the successful people will agree with your flawed assessment since it allows them to maintain their wealth. You ask some Indian guy if got rich because of black magic? F*ck yeah he did! And don't mess with him or you'll be cursed next.

The truth is... end of the day there's only one real way to get rich, and that's by providing value.

You create something that other people value - whether that be a product or a service, and you find a way to deliver it to them in a value chain that allows you to make a profit.

People need roads? Ok. You create a concrete paving company, build them the roads, and keep some money for yourself.

People want pizza? Ok. You find a way to make pizza they'll like and sell it to them.

People want cheap clothes? Ok. You find a way to import cheap clothes and make a small margin.

It's all about finding a way to deliver value. It has absolutely nothing to do with black magic.
Your logic makes sense in a free country. This is not the case in many places around the world where corruption and violence are rampant. Try starting that pavement company in a communist country with a militaristic government and see how long you're allowed to add value for before you get shut down or worse. I wish it weren't the case but sadly it is. For all of our problems I feel crazy blessed to be trying to make it in the US of A
 
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Successful Steve

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[/QUOTE]
Drugs are not magic. Magic is a fictious thing. Ayahuasca is a drug which makes you thing or rethink things differently. Psychedelics are acting on your brain and nerves, they're not magic.

I noticed your in Quebec. I went there a couple times over the winter to Quebec City and Montreal. It’s my new favorite place to do a road trip from DC. Very beautiful. I brought back 14 bottles of the Caribou whiskey and some Maple Whiskey.
 

AgainstAllOdds

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Try starting that pavement company in a communist country with a militaristic government and see how long you're allowed to add value for before you get shut down or worse. I wish it weren't the case but sadly it is.

Eh. @lunga ngcobo is in South Africa. There's definitely opportunities, maybe even more than in most parts of America depending what you get into.

As for "communist countries" or other countries where the government has more control, it's the same, just a different game. Instead of paying taxes, you pay bribes. Instead of building your business around bank loans, you build your business around political party support.

It's a different game, but the fundamentals are the same. You need to create a product or service that provides value first. Violence and "communism" is just the added cost of doing business after you create that value.

Want to start a factory in Bangladesh? Ok. You can bribe all the local officials to get it going, give them kickbacks, have your own mafia, but that doesn't guarantee success. Your factory still needs to offer a product that buyers will value at the price that you're offering it for. If you're selling product at a price that's too high, then you go out of business. If you're selling a product that no one has a need for, you go out of business. You still have to create value. If you don't create value, you can't play the game because there's nothing to be "taxed" (for the government or mafia to take a part of).

Also, this thought that America is the easiest place to operate is naive.

China is communist, but in the past few decades it's been the easiest place in the world to become ultra-rich. You think Jack Ma started with political party support or his own army? F*ck no. But he navigated, created a very valuable service, and then appeased the appropriate parties as he navigated.

Today, the fastest growing places are as follows:

25361

Nigeria, Egypt, Bangladesh, Vietnam... are any of those places you'd consider less violent and communist than the U.S.? Definitely not, but they're the fastest growing and where the most present moment opportunity exists.
 
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100ToOne

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Eh. @lunga ngcobo is in South Africa. There's definitely opportunities, maybe even more than in most parts of America depending what you get into.

As for "communist countries" or other countries where the government has more control, it's the same, just a different game. Instead of paying taxes, you pay bribes. Instead of building your business around bank loans, you build your business around political party support.

It's a different game, but the fundamentals are the same. You need to create a product or service that provides value first. Violence and "communism" is just the added cost of doing business after you create that value.

Want to start a factory in Bangladesh? Ok. You can bribe all the local officials to get it going, give them kickbacks, have your own mafia, but that doesn't guarantee success. Your factory still needs to offer a product that buyers will value at the price that you're offering it for. If you're selling product at a price that's too high, then you go out of business. If you're selling a product that no one has a need for, you go out of business. You still have to create value. If you don't create value, you can't play the game because there's nothing to be "taxed" (for the government or mafia to take a part of).

Also, this thought that America is the easiest place to operate is naive.

China is communist, but in the past few decades it's been the easiest place in the world to become ultra-rich. You think Jack Ma started with political party support or his own army? F*ck no. But he navigated, created a very valuable service, and then appeased the appropriate parties as he navigated.

Today, the fastest growing places are as follows:

View attachment 25361

Nigeria, Egypt, Bangladesh, Vietnam... are any of those places you'd consider less violent and communist than the U.S.? Definitely not, but they're the fastest growing and where the most present moment opportunity exists.

Golden post.
@AgainstAllOdds
Follow-up Personal question: If you migrated to Bangladesh for some out of your hand reason, and you had to do what you stated even though you have an American (no corruption, no bribes etc. mindset), will you accomodate yourself to those standards and start that factory? Or would you do everything possible to migrate to another "just" country?

The reason I ask because many entrepreneurs find themselves in similar situation as mentioned above, including me. So I would be interested to hear your thoughts.

@Successful Steve
I do believe you. However this topic goes back to faith and you will usually never be able to prove it to anyone so it will only cause you arguments, at least here on the forum. Nevertheless great to hear your input on the topic.
 

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Drugs are not magic. Magic is a fictious thing. Ayahuasca is a drug which makes you thing or rethink things differently. Psychedelics are acting on your brain and nerves, they're not magic.

If these things were legalized here, perhaps more studies could come out and science could detail everything that's going on in your body when you take these substances.

There's no magic. We're not in Harry Potter.

How do you know for sure?
 

Monica Rose

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Eh. @lunga ngcobo is in South Africa. There's definitely opportunities, maybe even more than in most parts of America depending what you get into.

As for "communist countries" or other countries where the government has more control, it's the same, just a different game. Instead of paying taxes, you pay bribes. Instead of building your business around bank loans, you build your business around political party support.

Based on my experience with our bank, I think I'm going to have to digress and say that gathering political party support may in fact be the easier task :playful:

It's a different game, but the fundamentals are the same. You need to create a product or service that provides value first. Violence and "communism" is just the added cost of doing business after you create that value.

Want to start a factory in Bangladesh? Ok. You can bribe all the local officials to get it going, give them kickbacks, have your own mafia, but that doesn't guarantee success. Your factory still needs to offer a product that buyers will value at the price that you're offering it for. If you're selling product at a price that's too high, then you go out of business. If you're selling a product that no one has a need for, you go out of business. You still have to create value. If you don't create value, you can't play the game because there's nothing to be "taxed" (for the government or mafia to take a part of).

Also, this thought that America is the easiest place to operate is naive.

This is not the first time I've been told that. It's ok. Every time I get a glimpse of my own naivete I get just a little wiser ;)

China is communist, but in the past few decades it's been the easiest place in the world to become ultra-rich. You think Jack Ma started with political party support or his own army? F*ck no. But he navigated, created a very valuable service, and then appeased the appropriate parties as he navigated.

I hear what you're saying, but if you can be shut down along the way because you aren't able to appease "the appropriate parties", then I don't think it's quite the same. Unless you count those "parties who must be appeased" among your customers, as people who you have to add value to. I suppose one could argue that administrative red tape in the USA could be just as much, if not more of an obstacle to succeeding in business, but to me that system seems easier to navigate.

I suppose that if I grew up in a culture where anything was possible if you bribe the right people, I might feel that kind of system was easier to navigate. For example, in the USA you have to get to be a pretty big company before you're able to bribe elected officials, but in other countries the bar for who can pay bribes is much lower. In that way you could say that business owners in those places might have it easier.

I will have to spend some more time unpacking this, and please forgive my rambling, my thoughts have been clarifying as I write...


Today, the fastest growing places are as follows:

View attachment 25361

Nigeria, Egypt, Bangladesh, Vietnam... are any of those places you'd consider less violent and communist than the U.S.? Definitely not, but they're the fastest growing and where the most present moment opportunity exists.

Very well thought out reply, thanks for that! I agree that there is more room for acceleration in the countries on this list, and it seems that principles of CENTS would still stand as the bar against which likelihood of success can be measured, with some slight differences in the details.
 
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guy93777

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There's no magic. We're not in Harry Potter.

you are not supposed to know about that anyway .


so yes from the masses point of view, there is no magic.


asian masters knwo how to master the yin yang energy of the body to heal and so on


from an american guy point of view " this is magic BS "

from an asian master point of view , this is just life.


westerners are just slaves of " modern science " and its ideology.

they don't deserve to know more about yin yang anyway. just stay where you are



25365




View: https://youtu.be/jsfzttQcZUs?t=120




.
 

AgainstAllOdds

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Hey @Yzn - I'll share my thoughts but think they should have zero impact on what you do with your life. We're all different. As long as you don't create harm to anyone in the process, do whatever you want and define your ethics however you want.

Follow-up Personal question: If you migrated to Bangladesh for some out of your hand reason, and you had to do what you stated even though you have an American (no corruption, no bribes etc. mindset), will you accomodate yourself to those standards and start that factory? Or would you do everything possible to migrate to another "just" country?

To answer this, I want to start by addressing your perspective on "American mindset". You defined it as a "no corruption and no bribes" mindset. That couldn't be further from the truth.

We might not be as corrupt as some countries, but we're definitely still extremely corrupt. The corruption is packaged differently so it's not always called "corruption", even though it's the same thing.

Some examples:
  • You're a real estate developer and donate to the local alderman's political campaign because he's in charge of zoning laws and who gets their building permits approved in that given area. You get approved on your proposed project and rezoned so that you can make money.
  • You get a traffic ticket in a small town. You hire a "good lawyer" that was recommended to you. He gets your ticket thrown out. Later you find out the judge in the small town is a part time prosecutor in the town over where the other lawyer serves as the sitting judge.
  • You work for Boeing and want a billion dollar contract with the U.S. government. You offer an extremely high paying job to the decision maker's daughter since there's no law against offering jobs to family members. Their daughter takes the job. Big surprise you get the contract.
  • You're a white collar thief on Wall Street being investigated by the SEC. Your company has a history of hiring ex-SEC employees at insane salaries. Your investigation for some unknown reason dies. You hire the head guy that was investigating you and pay him millions of dollars.
  • You want to be an Ambassador since your mom always wanted you to be. You donate half a million dollars into the Secretary of State's personal charity and get appointed ambassador.
  • ... I can go on all day.
The point is that America's still extremely corrupt. It's not the definition of corruption that we know where you go and hand someone a briefcase of money to get things done. It's a song and dance that's socially accepted.

25364

Just look at "lobbying".

Yeah, there's sometimes socially positive reasons for "lobbying", but overall it's just a form of bribery so that private companies can maintain their competitive edge.

What's the difference between hiring a lobbyist and handing some Bangladeshi official a $50,000 Patek Philippe so that he can look the other way?

To me there's not much.

Follow-up Personal question: If you migrated to Bangladesh for some out of your hand reason, and you had to do what you stated even though you have an American (no corruption, no bribes etc. mindset), will you accomodate yourself to those standards and start that factory? Or would you do everything possible to migrate to another "just" country?

Now to answer your question:

I wouldn't migrate to another country because of corruption reasons. I would calculate where I would be happiest and have the highest likelihood of accomplishing my goals.

If you're happy in the country you're in, and think that it's the best place for you, then stay there. If the local business climate dictates that you offer bribes, then question your own ethics and decide what's right for you.

Personally, if I loved Bangladesh and thought that it was the greatest country in the world, then I'd stay there. And if the local politicians required a bribe for me operate my business there, then I'd pay it.

I wouldn't do anything that crosses my ethical guidelines. I would never hurt another person directly or indirectly, or agree to be a piece of shit in any way. But if someone needed a bribe because "that's how things are done around here", and it didn't cause any harm, then I'd do it with no hesitation. The same way that a tourist in Thailand gives the local cops money for "driving without an international license", I'd pay the local officials to operate my business.

Note: I've met with a couple factory owners that have admitted to paying bribes. I don't think of them any less, just accept it as part of their local business customs, another tax per se.
 

Successful Steve

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Hey @Yzn - I'll share my thoughts but think they should have zero impact on what you do with your life. We're all different. As long as you don't create harm to anyone in the process, do whatever you want and define your ethics however you want.



To answer this, I want to start by addressing your perspective on "American mindset". You defined it as a "no corruption and no bribes" mindset. That couldn't be further from the truth.

We might not be as corrupt as some countries, but we're definitely still extremely corrupt. The corruption is packaged differently so it's not always called "corruption", even though it's the same thing.

Some examples:
  • You're a real estate developer and donate to the local alderman's political campaign because he's in charge of zoning laws and who gets their building permits approved in that given area. You get approved on your proposed project and rezoned so that you can make money.
  • You get a traffic ticket in a small town. You hire a "good lawyer" that was recommended to you. He gets your ticket thrown out. Later you find out the judge in the small town is a part time prosecutor in the town over where the other lawyer serves as the sitting judge.
  • You work for Boeing and want a billion dollar contract with the U.S. government. You offer an extremely high paying job to the decision maker's daughter since there's no law against offering jobs to family members. Their daughter takes the job. Big surprise you get the contract.
  • You're a white collar thief on Wall Street being investigated by the SEC. Your company has a history of hiring ex-SEC employees at insane salaries. Your investigation for some unknown reason dies. You hire the head guy that was investigating you and pay him millions of dollars.
  • You want to be an Ambassador since your mom always wanted you to be. You donate half a million dollars into the Secretary of State's personal charity and get appointed ambassador.
  • ... I can go on all day.
The point is that America's still extremely corrupt. It's not the definition of corruption that we know where you go and hand someone a briefcase of money to get things done. It's a song and dance that's socially accepted.

View attachment 25364

Just look at "lobbying".

Yeah, there's sometimes socially positive reasons for "lobbying", but overall it's just a form of bribery so that private companies can maintain their competitive edge.

What's the difference between hiring a lobbyist and handing some Bangladeshi official a $50,000 Patek Philippe so that he can look the other way?

To me there's not much.



Now to answer your question:

I wouldn't migrate to another country because of corruption reasons. I would calculate where I would be happiest and have the highest likelihood of accomplishing my goals.

If you're happy in the country you're in, and think that it's the best place for you, then stay there. If the local business climate dictates that you offer bribes, then question your own ethics and decide what's right for you.

Personally, if I loved Bangladesh and thought that it was the greatest country in the world, then I'd stay there. And if the local politicians required a bribe for me operate my business there, then I'd pa

Definitely right about the pharmaceutical industry and lobbying and being one of the most corrupt organizations in the US. While Americans get sicker and sicker.

I have a friend in El Salvador who owns a construction exporting and importing business. She does very well but is always getting harassed by MS-13. She refused to pay most of the times until they started threatening her children.
Don’t know why she doesn’t move to US but I guess it’s not enough reason to leave her country yet.
Asia on the other hand is not that bad. Very good business opportunities in Vietnam and India.
And it’s safer than our own cities in the US.
 
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lunga ngcobo

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Excuse my approach but i could'nt help but ask. Is black magic or lucky charms the real key wealth?

I live in South Africa and we have diverse cultures from muslims, indians, africans and whites. One thing I've noticed among the rich here is that most have some sort of belief and use black magic to convince other people to do business with them or to push their product.

Notice how some people will start a business from scratch and get tons of investors in a short period of time. Notice also how a flawed product will sell like hot cakes. I read a wealth building book some time ago and the author wrote that the main key to business is to persuade people or convince them.

I live in the east coast of South Africa where there is a high population of indians. and guess what... most of them are successful and admit to use some sort of Voodoo to grow their business.

So is this the missing part that every successful writer will skip and not tell readers for some reason. I know that making millions takes a lot of work but is there some other hidden factor that puts odds in your favor...? something like BLACK MAGIC?
Black magic alone will never make anyone a millionaire but picture this guys. You have this great business idea but you are terrible at speaking to people. And to my knowledge event the most skilled sales people still get rejected. So you use some Voodoo to convince people to buy your product.

I admit that selling cup cakes door to door will never make you rich even if you have a 99% convergence rate but what if you used it on bigger magnitude sales like selling real estate. Or another example... you have a website that needs subscribers... you have a sweet deal but most business people dont want to join your service because you are new and dont have a track record. Here you have it Again... help from Black magic!

travelling around in different cities takes alot of work and money but would you do it if you knew that you could convince any business man to subscribe to your service?
people here call it self made luck... lol. but i still have dough's that it works at all. :happy::happy::happy:
 

Kevin88660

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Many chinese business people spend hundreds of thousands on feng shui. They also believe that charitable donations accumulate karma points which in turn can drive their business up.
 
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socaldude

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Interesting that having a false belief or idea in your head is really no different than believing in stuff like black magic. The metaphysical status of the proposition is still FALSE.

Some people will laugh and make fun of people who believe in this stuff yet never realize some their own beliefs are just as wrong and ridiculous as well.;)

"Black magic" is our imagination trying to make up for the lack of understanding of causal relationships and wrong principles to reason off of.
 

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