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How to Buy A Ferrari for $20K

JEdwards

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And don't drive a 458, 'coz then you won't like the 360 OR 430 :p

The 458 is the only car I would trade in the 430 for... I am on the list.. waiting.

BTW: Looked in the garage, it is sleeping.
 
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Inphinity

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The 458 is the only car I would trade in the 430 for... I am on the list.. waiting.

BTW: Looked in the garage, it is sleeping.

Have you driven Lambo's LP570-4 or LP550-2 (if you prefer RWD over AWD)? I would take them in a heartbeat over the 430... 458, not sure.. hmm could go either way it's an awesome car (but they're about $450k here.. not in my view yet!)
 

CEBenz

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Have you driven Lambo's LP570-4 or LP550-2 (if you prefer RWD over AWD)? I would take them in a heartbeat over the 430... 458, not sure.. hmm could go either way it's an awesome car (but they're about $450k here.. not in my view yet!)

Unfortunately, I could only chime in if you were asking about the LP640.

But this is a fun watch:

[video=youtube;pVHCjuoZNCo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVHCjuoZNCo[/video]
[video=youtube;q4BR-s-rS8g]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4BR-s-rS8g[/video]

apologize for the hot the hot air balloon.
 
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Jonleehacker

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This one could fund a nice regular car. You have a site making $1000 a month, first bid is $12,500 or 1x. My guess is that it will go at 15k. Disclaimer: I haven't done any research on this one at all. Could be a dud.

My first glance is that it probably gets 15-20 orders a month. Easily managed in 15 minutes a day. Probably could increase traffic with SEO, maybe run a PPC campaign.

https://flippa.com/135835-Fine-Home-Lamps-E-Commerce-Strore---950-Avg--Monthy-Net-Profit-and-Growing

I like this one, if the numbers are true, and it sells for 15k then it is fantastic... my guess is, and it's just a hunch, that is reserve is more like 20k. Experienced sellers know they get the best price when there is no reserve, to me this seller seems like he really isn't too committed to sell unless he gets what he considers a great price.

One thing that is really interesting when I see a listing like this on flippa is that basically the guy has laid out a complete business plan of how to steal his niche... to me that is one of the most effective uses of flippa ;)
 

Rickson9

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Buy a business that sells the need of attaining social affluence by way of material goods and you can print money forever.

Rolls Royce, Hermes Louis Vuitton, Ferrarri, Gucci, Patek Philippe, etc.

Marketers are genius; 0 to stupid in 3 seconds.

Best regards.
 
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CEBenz

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I like this one, if the numbers are true, and it sells for 15k then it is fantastic... my guess is, and it's just a hunch, that is reserve is more like 20k. Experienced sellers know they get the best price when there is no reserve, to me this seller seems like he really isn't too committed to sell unless he gets what he considers a great price.

One thing that is really interesting when I see a listing like this on flippa is that basically the guy has laid out a complete business plan of how to steal his niche... to me that is one of the most effective uses of flippa ;)


Jon, I feel better knowing I wasn't the only one thinking that. lol
 

biophase

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I'd want to know way revenues and profit declined so much in 2010... maybe those cameras are a fad that is losing steam.

As someone who has purchased many helmet cameras in the past 10 years and also is a dealer of some, I can tell you that this market is very competitive now. Prices are coming down a little, but there are now many brands out there. I wouldn't be interested in this store because new technology is launched every year which will leave your old stock, well old. I shy away from tech stores because of this. Margins are pretty decent and none of the brands dropship so you have to hold inventory. I think that revenues declined from 2010 because 2 years ago the helmet cameras went to HD which caused many people to dump their SD ones. But in the last year, no real changes have been made.

The newest helmet camera coming out soon will now have bluetooth so you can see what they are seeing on your mobile phone. Pretty cool, I'm just waiting for the new Gopro to get that feature. Not sure if that would make people trade up their current ones.
 
D

DeletedUser2

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I buy sites like this on a regular basis. at 1x or 1.2 even 1.5x all the time. there are alot out there.... if you know where to look


But is the $8k/mo revenue or profit? I'd be amazed to find anyone who'd sell a $96/year profit business for $100k, unless it requires an awful lot of effort to maintain or they feel it's close to dying... or they have no idea what they've got? hehe
 
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D

DeletedUser2

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Ok, what do you guys think this business is worth? I am not interested in purchasing this one.

https://flippa.com/136820-Established-Online-Store-for-Helmet-Cameras-1-on-Google

So I have some formulas I use.
1. its older than 24 months, +
2. it makes more than 200K yr ++
3. the product is in an evergreen industry, +++
4. the product ties into several vertical markets and has the ability to expand beyond its borders +++
5. the customer list has potential for additional income ++

So i would start at a 1X of NET rev. (gross profit is kinda misleading, but lets say 25% off the top of the GP to figure Net Rev. and I am just WAY guessing here)
since I have 11 Pluses (in my own little hinky way of valuing things) i would be willing to pay up to 2.1X of NET rev.

but since i have not done my Due Diligence yet, I would expect to find 2-7 -'s so lets just say 4 for fun. that would bring it down to 1.7X of net

They claim a 345K GP number so lets take our 25% off (my number) and we get about 258K at 1.7X that's about 438K is the TOP of what i would pay for the site.

now about my discounts. I would like to get it for 1/2 that. or less.

so looking at the 199K price, i find a nice little flag. not bad, just pay attention. this might be a motivated seller with a "problem" he has to solve to buy his way out of, it might be on the other side of a divorce, and price for speed.
it might be a "partner dissolution" situation. in any case, its a pursue until there is a flag that says no.
now all my DD is focused on finding the absolute reason to NOT buy it.

but that's my 2 cents... and my kinda off the cuff numbers
Dale
 

Bozigian

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Everytime I talk about the Ferrari 458, I feel like I just cheated on my wife. Its like if I was to have an affair with Pamela Anderson.

One time on Website Broker. Their was this one site that had all languange in french and the site consisted of selling perfume fragrances. The site claimed to make 100,000 a month and it did look believable by the fancyness of the site, only thing I cant remember what the price of it was for sale on I think like 800,000 or 1.2 million.
 
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biophase

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So I have some formulas I use.
1. its older than 24 months, +
2. it makes more than 200K yr ++
3. the product is in an evergreen industry, +++
4. the product ties into several vertical markets and has the ability to expand beyond its borders +++
5. the customer list has potential for additional income ++

What do you mean by evergreen industry?
 

gofalls

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I'd be amazed to find anyone who'd sell a $96/year profit business for $100k, unless it requires an awful lot of effort to maintain or they feel it's close to dying... or they have no idea what they've got? hehe

I had a business partner that refused to let me buy him out or buy my half and I wanted out. So we put it up for sale and dropped the price to 1x earnings. Still no buyers for various reasons. Eventually I was able to buy him out for a premium but for 1 year my business was up for grabs for 1x earnings.

They are out there. People have their reasons for selling cheap that might not make sense to most.
 

CEBenz

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In reading this thread, I've come to the conclusing that there is a lot I don't know about off page SEO for ecommerce. Anyone feel like laying out the basic strategy?
 
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D

DeletedUser2

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What do you mean by evergreen industry?

evergreen, never goes out of style, or will always be able to be sold.
examples,

how to make money,
Dating,
credit and money,
stock markets
entertainment
toys

some examples of non evergreen markets
the atari 2600 stragetgy guide,
walkmans
super 8 video store...

this market would fall into "toys" for evergreen. it is a new category, that is less than 20 yrs old. but it wont really go away, just evolve as the tech evolves.

it could also be in the "extreme sport" category, another evergreen type market.
hope that helps
 

TK1

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They are out there. People have their reasons for selling cheap that might not make sense to most.

I would like to read more about all those reasons people sell a good business at those prices - I just can't imagine anybody selling a business unless it's declining a lot etc.
 

kwerner

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TK1 - I would imagine for the same reasons that people sell their homes for less than what they're worth. Some reasons could include: divorce, medical emergency / bills, job loss, retiring, liquidating assets to pay off creditors, moving, paying for kids' college, selling off the little businesses to focus on the big business, bad partnership, owner died and the estate is selling off their assets, etc. There could be any number of reasons.
 
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MJ DeMarco

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I should have titled this thread "How to buy a Ferrari for $20k".

Done. Some GOLDEN NUGGETS in this thread. If you want it changed back, let me know.
 

oddball

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I'm kind of new to the website game but if you buy a storefront site, what do you have to do to continue selling whatever they are selling?

I do see what you mean, there are a lot of sites listed that make good monthly profit for decent prices. How do you verify that they are correct though?
 

CEBenz

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I'm kind of new to the website game but if you buy a storefront site, what do you have to do to continue selling whatever they are selling?

I do see what you mean, there are a lot of sites listed that make good monthly profit for decent prices. How do you verify that they are correct though?

Due diligence is going to be the name of the game here. Usually, I believe, you're going to want to look for the ones with verified income and ideally sites that derive traffic from more than one source. I think it was zen******* that pointed out he only looks at sites that are 2 or more years old. I especially love the ones that say "great income" but have no revenue or net listed. lol

Some companies (dropshippers etc.) will require the new owner to set up a new account. Other times, you may be looking at dealing with manufacturers in China and you'll just need to know who your suppliers are. Be prepared, when dealing with Chinese companies, to do business with wire transfers. It seems to be pretty much standard operating procedure.
 
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Last edited:

Davidla

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Nice thread.
Allmost missed it because of the "creative" title - thanks MikeC :smxB:

I am currently negotiating to buy a 7k/y "passive" earning website for 1X aswell.
After hearing first hand stories from people who bought "passive" websites generating around 10k+/y for 0.4-0.5X, the 1X markup actually feels a little high.
But my logic tells me it is like hearing stories from experienced R.E investors about a deal they got with no money down, or 50% off market price. These things exist, but they are very rare.

On the other hand, I came across a lot of small "active" web businesses for sale (30k/y profit and downwards) selling for 1x and less - but without doing a lot of DD on these, I noticed they were usually involved with a decent time investment.

So I"l join the ones who claim people actually do sell their online businesses for 1X and less, and I"l even dare say there are more than a few of them.
My hunch is that once there is offline/non standard work involved with the business, people are willing to pay much less.

---------------------

On a different note, I like your idea of letting the business pay for the car Biophase.

I'm looking to do something similiar with university tuition.
I'm looking at 10k/y passive business at 1X, and looking for potential to make it grow atleast 50-100%, and then flip or keep it.

So using 20k saved up for school to buy two of these assets, can actually cover tuition for 4 yrs (assuming 20k/y tuition) - not taking into account business growth.
 

FiveStar

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I am a web guy and I invest heavily in revenue producing websites as well. Currently I have about 20 smaller websites earning between $50 - $800/mo each, I felt it was a better play from a risk standpoint to diversify into a basket of websites.

There is excellent deals out there for 8x-15x monthly revenue if you know what to look for and can continue to build upon the property once you acquire, resulting in close to 100% yearly returns.

zen******* has outlined most of the things to look for when shopping for a website, one of my biggest is looking for under optimized sites with poor on/offsite SEO which have a huge upside when ranking higher for targeted keywords.

This has been very successful for me so far, but you do need to really closely analyze the websites and try to poke as many holes in the deal as you can. I wouldn't recommend this to anyone without a strong technical background as it does take a lot of time, expertise, effort and a special skillset.

It takes a while to build up a portfolio of gems, but the returns you can see are unbelievable.

FiveStar
 

Russ H

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Man, I have really missed threads like these (thanks, Kenric). :)

We used to have them all the time around here.

And then the economy did a belly flop.

Gerk.

OK, my 2¢ (which, due to inflation and the recession, are really only worth about 7/10¢ right now) :smxB:

***********

We got into doing our "thing" based on some pretty serious number crunching.

We had spreadsheets that incorporated so many variables that even the SBA consultants and lenders admitted our projections were a lot more solid (ie, predictive) than theirs.

What we saw, back in 2001:

•B&Bs in Napa sold for 5x annual revenues (not profits-- gross)

•The market was growing, and rates/occupancy were increasing every year (from 2001 on)

•We did LOTS of spreadsheets-- looked at flat growth, negative growth, loss of occupancy, rising costs, etc.

Then, we pulled the trigger.

Actually, we pulled it a few times: Bought the first B&B, then used the revenues/profits just like you would for your Ferrari-- only we bought more B&Bs/business revenue generators, which allowed us to buy *more* B&Bs.

Our formula:

Wash, rinse, repeat.

************

It worked great, but our spreadsheets neglected to tell us a few things:

1. B&Bs are a limited market. If you have 90% occupancy w/9 rooms, this does NOT mean you'll have 90% occupancy w/20 or 30 rooms. Because at 90% occ, 10% of your rooms were empty during the year-- if you have more rooms, those will also be empty on those days-- but instead of 10% of 9 rooms, you'll have 10% of 9 rooms empty, plus 100% of your additional rooms. I can 'splain further if that doesn't make sense.

Web/product corollary: If you have a market where you're selling 100,000 widgets a year, doubling your production or supply line does NOT mean you'll be able to double your sales. Your market may only be 100,000/year.

2. If you're doing spreadsheets (ie, projections), you're making assumptions:

-That biz will continue to be good and not hit snags
-That google will continue to smile on your property/product/website
-That the market will either grow, or stay flat

But what if:

-The market decreases (ie, LESS people buy this year than last)
-Your costs increase (ie, your raw materials cost more this year than last)
-Your overall selling price decreases (ie, you have to sell your product for less this year to stay competitive)

Look at the above 3 things.

Most spreadsheets/projections never plan on all 3 happening at the same time-- at least not at 20-30% for each.

Yet that's what happened to us, from 2008 to 2009.

Helluva gut check.

So, we're having to re-group. Figure out what to keep, and what not to keep.

Moral of the story?

Nothing lasts forever-- and conditions may change that you do not provide for in your forecasting/projections.

So plan for the worst case scenario at the outset.

Give yourself an escape plan.

So, if your downside isn't too bad (ie, you lose the Ferrari and your credit stinks), and you can live w/that-- then GO FOR IT.

It's a calculated risk.

But if the downside is more serious for you (ie, having your credit rating take a dump is super bad for you, and cascades into your other businesses failing b/c you can't order or pay for things), then structure your deal so if it crashes and burns, it doesn't take you or your other businesses with it-- just that one business entity.

Hope this all makes sense.

What I'm saying is: Do the deal if the numbers make sense. Just structure it so that if it implodes, it won't take you down with it.

And realize that your projections may not count for diddly if there are some major market shifts.

-Russ H.
 
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biophase

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Bozigian

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How do they make a site like BikeTiresDirect and pooltables.com?
How do they get the suppliers?
 

TK1

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Or in other words: If you want to pay for a car that costs 1,000 per month buy a business that makes 2000 per month or more, so when business decreases you have still time to change things or even escape - that would be my escape plan if things go worse - only spend 50% max from business profit on anything.

Man, I have really missed threads like these (thanks, Kenric). :)

We used to have them all the time around here.

And then the economy did a belly flop.

Gerk.

OK, my 2¢ (which, due to inflation and the recession, are really only worth about 7/10¢ right now) :smxB:

***********

We got into doing our "thing" based on some pretty serious number crunching.

We had spreadsheets that incorporated so many variables that even the SBA consultants and lenders admitted our projections were a lot more solid (ie, predictive) than theirs.

What we saw, back in 2001:

•B&Bs in Napa sold for 5x annual revenues (not profits-- gross)

•The market was growing, and rates/occupancy were increasing every year (from 2001 on)

•We did LOTS of spreadsheets-- looked at flat growth, negative growth, loss of occupancy, rising costs, etc.

Then, we pulled the trigger.

Actually, we pulled it a few times: Bought the first B&B, then used the revenues/profits just like you would for your Ferrari-- only we bought more B&Bs/business revenue generators, which allowed us to buy *more* B&Bs.

Our formula:

Wash, rinse, repeat.

************

It worked great, but our spreadsheets neglected to tell us a few things:

1. B&Bs are a limited market. If you have 90% occupancy w/9 rooms, this does NOT mean you'll have 90% occupancy w/20 or 30 rooms. Because at 90% occ, 10% of your rooms were empty during the year-- if you have more rooms, those will also be empty on those days-- but instead of 10% of 9 rooms, you'll have 10% of 9 rooms empty, plus 100% of your additional rooms. I can 'splain further if that doesn't make sense.

Web/product corollary: If you have a market where you're selling 100,000 widgets a year, doubling your production or supply line does NOT mean you'll be able to double your sales. Your market may only be 100,000/year.

2. If you're doing spreadsheets (ie, projections), you're making assumptions:

-That biz will continue to be good and not hit snags
-That google will continue to smile on your property/product/website
-That the market will either grow, or stay flat

But what if:

-The market decreases (ie, LESS people buy this year than last)
-Your costs increase (ie, your raw materials cost more this year than last)
-Your overall selling price decreases (ie, you have to sell your product for less this year to stay competitive)

Look at the above 3 things.

Most spreadsheets/projections never plan on all 3 happening at the same time-- at least not at 20-30% for each.

Yet that's what happened to us, from 2008 to 2009.

Helluva gut check.

So, we're having to re-group. Figure out what to keep, and what not to keep.

Moral of the story?

Nothing lasts forever-- and conditions may change that you do not provide for in your forecasting/projections.

So plan for the worst case scenario at the outset.

Give yourself an escape plan.

So, if your downside isn't too bad (ie, you lose the Ferrari and your credit stinks), and you can live w/that-- then GO FOR IT.

It's a calculated risk.

But if the downside is more serious for you (ie, having your credit rating take a dump is super bad for you, and cascades into your other businesses failing b/c you can't order or pay for things), then structure your deal so if it crashes and burns, it doesn't take you or your other businesses with it-- just that one business entity.

Hope this all makes sense.

What I'm saying is: Do the deal if the numbers make sense. Just structure it so that if it implodes, it won't take you down with it.

And realize that your projections may not count for diddly if there are some major market shifts.

-Russ H.
 
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LightHouse

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Awesome thread, thx for MJ for posting it on facebook or i wouldn't have noticed it.

I dug a bunch into the helmet cams niche. Most of the companies are not accepting US based sellers anymore. So you have to buy in or buy through a middleman.

If you really want to start picking up some deals, like we've discussed before, do what the guy that wanted to buy my site did. Start calling and contacting stores in good niches that are on the 2nd 3rd pages and see who is ready to get rid of their stuff, you can find some great deals that way i imagine if you have the cash ready to roll. Just make sure they have something that you couldnt put together in a weekend that way you know your not buying into something that even with a few months you could have done yourself and you'll be competing with everyone and their brother....
 

Russ H

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Or in other words: If you want to pay for a car that costs 1,000 per month buy a business that makes 2000 per month or more, so when business decreases you have still time to change things or even escape - that would be my escape plan if things go worse - only spend 50% max from business profit on anything.

It's not that simple.

BTW, this was our error in logic, too.

If your sales go down, and expenses go UP, and your selling price goes DOWN, what's left?

NOTHING.

LESS than nothing: You OWE money, and you don't have enough coming in.

You go into the Red.

Again, spreadsheets/projections don't always tell you this-- b/c they're only doing what you told them.

If you don't take market changes into account-- or-- for web based stuff, a change in google that takes you off page 1-- or some big change that makes your product dated or even obsolete-- you're in for some hurtin' for certain.

I speak from experience here. We're in the midst of cleaning things up, cutting expenses, increasing sales, etc.

There is nothing we can do about the market-- but (thankfully) it is getting better.

The last 3 years have been a HUGE learning/lesson for us. They've taught us that projections (and playing learning games, like Cashflow) are very useful when those things mirror the marketplace.

But when changes take place in the markets-- you need to incorporate them into your projections.

This is not always possible, since projections are, by nature, educated guesses about the future.

Guess the wrong direction of events, or not allow for a big enough changes-- and you're toast.

-Russ H.
 

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