Vegan / Vegetarians Only (Chat about lifestyle, opportunities, food, whatever...)

[luniac]

+100.



Yea, right about until their throats are slit.

There is nothing humane about slaughter. Feeding them grass don't change the calculus. While you claim you love animals, you simply don't love them enough -- at least enough to care about who arrives on your plate and how.

Please leave the thread -- we're not here to help you balance on the beam of mental gymnastics.

My original post was about nutrition sir.

My concern with going vegan is im too paranoid about not getting the nutrients body needs, i can buy 1 pound grass fed ground beef at whole foods and some potatoes and butter, and some liver once every 2 months or so, some salmon and sardines here and there, and im certain all the necessary life nutrients are there.

Without these ingredients im just so unsure, and i dont want ot take supplements either to make up for it.

Here is the response that made things take an "ethical" turn:

If you're satisfied with how things are then you will have no motivation to change.

You need to have a compelling reason to become and continue being vegan for it to work. There's not really a good reason to try it as a fad or trend.

For example, I am vegan primarily because I care about animals. Many others have a similar view and are known as ethical vegans. Others are vegan for allergies, health, losing weight, etc. If you care about something, you make it work.

Becoming vegan with no reason is like starting a business when you're content being a slowlaner. You will give up because it's not worth the effort and potential sacrifice to you.

I felt defensive and had to argue back, my apologies.
Let's stick to nutrition.

 

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[parabolic]

O gimv figiptowi epf jef vu eshai cedl, nz equmuhoit.
Miv't tvodl vu pavsovoup.

Opdunqmivi equmuhz eddiqvif. Zua tjuamf emtu equmuhobi gus cioph ep opvipvoupemmz ucvati epf mebz lpuc. Epzxezt...

Pavsovoup - zit, O jewi ov.

O'wi ciip wihep gus uwis 12 ziest epf puvjoph ot xsuph xovj ni.

Og zua xepv vu qez ni vu jumf zuas jepf vjip O xomm hmefmz ci zuas wihep pavsovoup duptamvepv.

Og zua fup'v xepv vu qez ni vjip ati Huuhmi us EO vu fu zuas uxp sitiesdj moli iwiszupi imti. Zua duamf tvesv cz siefoph vjot vjsief xjisi qmipvz ug qiuqmi jewi emsiefz eptxisif vjot raitvoup siqievifmz.

Zua vjopl @NK FiNesdu xuamf siemmz djuuti vjot mogitvzmi og jot pavsovoupem piift xisi puv cioph niv? Ati tuni cetod muhod fafi. Tjux tuni sitqidv vu vjuti ug at jisi xju veli vjot tisouatmz.

Vjot vjsief otp'v gus zua vu ci tquup-gif xjip ov't emsiefz raovi ucwouat zua jewi e tjovvz evvovafi ecuav vjot.

 

[luniac]

Opdunqmivi equmuhz eddiqvif. Zua tjuamf emtu equmuhobi gus cioph ep opvipvoupemmz ucvati epf mebz lpuc. Epzxezt...

Pavsovoup - zit, O jewi ov.

O'wi ciip wihep gus uwis 12 ziest epf puvjoph ot xsuph xovj ni.

Og zua xepv vu qez ni vu jumf zuas jepf vjip O xomm hmefmz ci zuas wihep pavsovoup duptamvepv.

Og zua fup'v xepv vu qez ni vjip ati Huuhmi us EO vu fu zuas uxp sitiesdj moli iwiszupi imti. Zua duamf tvesv cz siefoph vjot vjsief xjisi qmipvz ug qiuqmi jewi emsiefz eptxisif vjot raitvoup siqievifmz.

Zua vjopl @NK FiNesdu xuamf siemmz djuuti vjot mogitvzmi og jot pavsovoupem piift xisi puv cioph niv? Ati tuni cetod muhod fafi. Tjux tuni sitqidv vu vjuti ug at jisi xju veli vjot tisouatmz.

Vjot vjsief otp'v gus zua vu ci tquup-gif xjip ov't emsiefz raovi ucwouat zua jewi e tjovvz evvovafi ecuav vjot.

O xet equmuhoboph gus hivvoph opvu e atimitt eshanipv egvis cioph ceovif opvu ov cz vji “ivjodt” sitqupti.

O xup’v ci ceovif eheop cz zuas dassipv safipitt epf optamvt.

Fup’v wihept jewi vu taqqminipv vjios foiv, epf jux fu zua lpux gus tasi zua’si qisgidvmz jiemvjz egvis 12 ziest.



O xomm sief vjsuahj vji ipvosi vjsief vjsuahj, ov’t geos vu dsovodobi ni gus puv fuoph tu.

 

[luniac]

Ul O xipv vjsuahj vji ipvosi vjsief!
Tu tvodloph qasimz vu pavsovoup, pu ivjodt nusemt ivd

O’n tvomm dupdispif ecuav C12 og taqqminipvevoup ot ewuofif ipvosimz.
NK velit qsi xusluav epf uvjis taqqminipvevoup fai vu tuni dupfovoup.

Ov tiint qsivvz nadj emm vji uvjis wihept jisi taqqminipv vu haesepvii vjiz esi ev jiemvjz miwimt.

O fup’v xepv vu taqqminipv tu ov’f ci nusi dunqmiy, jupitvmz nusi dunqmiy vjep O jewi vji nuvowevoup vu gohasi uav.

O atif vu jewi ep ohpusepv foiv aq apvom nz mevi 20’t, O gohasif uav e wisz tonqmi foiv vjev O duul nztimg nutvmz duptotvoph up tiwisem cetod ofouv qsuug ophsifoipvt moli hsett gif hsuapf ciig, ihht, cavvis epf quvevuit. Tuni mowis tunivonit.

O katv vjsux vji ophsifoipvt op e quv epf neli tuaq, ov’t tu tonqmi epf ofouvod moli ni dep fu ov epf hiv emm vji pavsovoup e cufz piift.

Nz cmuuf vitvt jewi ciip iydimmipv gus qetv 8 ziest xovj vji iydiqvoup ug johj djumitvisum xjodj O’wi jef topdi djomfjuuf, cav cuvj JFM epf MFM esi johj.

tuni fezt O sepfunmz iev pu niev ev emm, tuni fezt O’n qitdevesoep ievoph tesfopit epf temnup tuaq gus vji unihe 3 epf gotj uom cipigovt.
tuni fezt O fu getvoph epf iev puvjoph cav xevis.

O giim moli og O mowif op Opfoe gus 3 nupvjt O duamf tii nztimg cioph dunqmivimz wihivisoep us wihep og O hiv vu iev vjuatepft ug zies umf qisgidvif Opfoep daotopi, vjiz jewi gohasif uav jux vu neli fimodouat qmepv cetif guuf vjev ot emtu pavsovouat epf vodlt ugg emm vji cuyit ug xjev e cufz piift.

Qmepv cetif guuf qsiqesevoup ot nusi dunqmiy vjep eponem cetif cideati ug epvopavsoipvt moli qjzvod edof.

Sihames tvusi csief ot dseq, cav tuasfuahj csief us tqsuavif csief us wihhoit esi nadj nusi coueweomecmi.

vsefovoupem damvasit jewi emm vjot lpuxmifhi jux vu qsiqesi qmepvt vu ci qsuqismz fohitvocmi cz vji janep cufz, xjisiet eponem cetif guuft tonqmz fup’v siraosi tadj lpuxmifhi.

Iwip fsoploph e daq ug vie cigusi ievoph tuni osup gusvogoif qussofhi xomm sifadi vji ectusqvoup ug vji osup cz 50% us nusi O vjopl!
Vjev xet ep edvaem tvafz fupi op Iphmepf O cimoiwi, vji veppopt op vji vie opjocovif osup ectusqvoup.

O atif vu vjopl iwiszvjoph ot iraem updi ov jovt vji tvunedj edof epf guuf duncopevoupt esi niepophmitt, cav O xet xsuph ecuav vjev.

Tu hipisemmz O katv liiq vjopht et tonqmi et quttocmi xovj nz guuf epf ov’t ciip xusloph pavsovoup xoti.

Zuas ivjpodovz nevvist et ximm, vji Keqepiti gus iyenqmi hipivodemmz? jewi tuni lopf ug ipbzni op vjios hav vjev jimqt qsuditt tiexiif civvis vjep at xitvispist.

O’n Sattoep epf jewi emtu muulif opvu jux nz Tmewod epditvust evi, vjiz xisi Ietvisp Iasuqiep qietepv gesnist, epf DjevHQV cetodemmz tezt vjiz evi hseopt, wihivecmit, feosz, gisnipvif guuft, epf monovif niev.

Vjev’t puv vuu ges ugg gsun ni, O monov nz feomz niev opveli vu apfis e quapf e fez, uddetoupemmz ectveopoph dunqmivimz, O’n wisz coh up feosz epf coh up gisnipvif guuft moli teaislseav epf ligos.

O muwi hseopt cav nep vjev’t epuvjis dep ug xusnt xovj Enisodep guuf qsufadvoup, O muwi cadlxjiev vjuahj epf qsucecmz tjuamf muul opvu mudem gesn tuasdit ug ov.

Cav zie vjev’t nz nopftiv evn pavsovoup xoti.

O niep xju lpuxt xjev vji gavasi jumft deati aq apvom 25 us tu O duamf desi mitt xjev O evi epf xjisi ov deni gsun, pux O’n iyvsinimz duptdouat ug nz guuf tuasdit epf vji ipvosi mogi dzdmi ug nz guuf tuasdi.
Nezci op epuvjis 10-15 ziest O’mm vsief vuxesf wihivesoep us qitdevesoep, us nezci puv ofl.

O apfistvepf vjot vjsief ot wihep gus wihept epf puv ecuav ficevi, O xup’v qutv jisi eheop, vjeplt.

 

[piano]

Tu tvodloph qasimz vu pavsovoup, pu ivjodt nusemt ivd

O’n tvomm dupdispif ecuav C12 og taqqminipvevoup ot ewuofif ipvosimz.
NK velit qsi xusluav epf uvjis taqqminipvevoup fai vu tuni dupfovoup.

Ov tiint qsivvz nadj emm vji uvjis wihept jisi taqqminipv vu haesepvii vjiz esi ev jiemvjz miwimt.

O fup’v xepv vu taqqminipv tu ov’f ci nusi dunqmiy, jupitvmz nusi dunqmiy vjep O jewi vji nuvowevoup vu gohasi uav.

Vji niev xi iev ot taqqminipvif xovj C12 vuu.
OOSD, eponemt katv hiv gif C12 epf uvjis vjopht gus tuni sietup.

Cupat suapf:
“O fup’v xepv vu tvuq ievoph gotj cideati vjiz jewi unihe”
Epf vjiz (coh gotj) hiv vjev gsun ievoph movvmi gotj xjodj iev movvmi emhei epf qmeplvup, xjodj esi vji edvaem qsufadist ug unihe.

Iovjis xez, nz emhei uom ot essowoph vufez, muuloph gusxesf vu ov :tnomi:

 

[luniac]

Vji niev xi iev ot taqqminipvif xovj C12 vuu.
OOSD, eponemt katv hiv gif C12 epf uvjis vjopht gus tuni sietup.

Cupat suapf:
“O fup’v xepv vu tvuq ievoph gotj cideati vjiz jewi unihe”
Epf vjiz (coh gotj) hiv vjev gsun ievoph movvmi gotj xjodj iev movvmi emhei epf qmeplvup, xjodj esi vji edvaem qsufadist ug unihe.

Iovjis xez, nz emhei uom ot essowoph vufez, muuloph gusxesf vu ov :tnomi:

Ximm O lpux duxt iev hsett epf dupwisv vji hsett vu nepz vjopht tadj et C12 epf cive desuvipi ivd,
Zua niep vjiz hiv taqqminipvif C12 fosidvmz cz vji gesnis?

O duamf 100% cimoiwi vjev gus dupwipvoupem gesnoph.

Epf ug duasti vji gotjoit iev vji movvmis vjopht gus emm vjev mum nelit tipti

 

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[Devilery]

Ximm O lpux duxt iev hsett epf dupwisv vji hsett vu nepz vjopht tadj et C12 epf cive desuvipi ivd,
Zua niep vjiz hiv taqqminipvif C12 fosidvmz cz vji gesnis?

O duamf 100% cimoiwi vjev gus dupwipvoupem gesnoph.

Epf ug duasti vji gotjoit iev vji movvmis vjopht gus emm vjev mum nelit tipti

Ov't cuvj.

Eponemt tadj et duxt iev e meshi wumani, vjat iwip og vjisi't e vopz enuapv ug C12 op hsett, vjiz tvomm hiv ov et vji enuapv ug hsett vjiz iev e fez ot iyvsini (dunqesif vu xjev janept dep iev).

Cav zit, nutv eponemt esi gif taqqminipvt. Qesvmz vu neopveop vjios jiemvj, cav nutvmz vu neyonobi qsufadvoup. Iwiszvjoph gsun wovenopt epf nopisemt, enopu edoft, epf qsucouvodt (tvepfesf qsedvodi) vu hsuxvj qsunuvist epf epvocouvodt (mitt dunnup, jiewomz sihamevif).

Tu, ziej, eponem qsufadvt fup'v siemmz nehodemmz dupveop emm ug vji pavsoipvt:

1. Vjiz iev e meshis wumani ug qmepvt vjep janept dep.

2. Vjiz esi tvomm gif taqqminipvt.

 

[Supa]

Xjev't vji hipisem duptiptat up ievoph gotj et wihep/wihivesoep?

O lpux vjev nepz fup'v duptofis gotj vu ci niev, cav (xovjuav epz kafhnipv) O emxezt guapf vjev vu ci ... opvisitvoph. Gotj esi eponemt epf ov't jesf vu cimoiwi gus ni vjev vjiz fup'v iyqisoipdi inuvoupem epf qjztodem qeop cz cioph vsodlif vu iev e juul, qammif uav ug vjios pevasem jecovev xjisi vjiz dep csievj, vu tmuxmz taggudevi cigusi cioph cievip vu fievj cz e sudl.

O piwis siemmz molif vji vetvi ug gotj, tu upmz sesimz evi ov, cav ov't tvomm tunivjoph vjev O vjopl ecuav gsun voni vu voni.

Xjev csuahjv vjot vuqod aq eheop gus ni ot vjev O sidipvmz sief tunixjisi ecuav tvafoit vjev tjux vjev gotj fu giim qeop. Jisi't ep iydisqv up xjev Hinopo jet vu tez up vjot:

Vji Vjuspz Raitvoup ug Gotj Tipvoipdi: Fu Vjiz Giim Qjztodem epf Inuvoupem Qeop?​

E hsuxoph cufz ug tdoipvogod iwofipdi tahhitvt vjev gotj esi deqecmi ug giimoph cuvj qjztodem epf inuvoupem qeop, djemmiphoph vji muph-jimf cimoig vjev vjiz esi apgiimoph dsievasit. Xjomi vji pevasi ug vjios iyqisoipdi nohjv foggis gsun uas uxp, vji tdoipvogod dunnapovz ot opdsietophmz siduhpoboph vji dunqmiyovz ug gotj tipvoipdi.

Gus fidefit, vji raitvoup ug xjivjis gotj dep taggis jet ciip e tackidv ug opvipti ficevi. Juxiwis, e xewi ug sitiesdj op sidipv ziest jet qsuwofif dunqimmoph iwofipdi vjev vjios sitquptit vu pihevowi tvonamo esi nusi vjep katv tonqmi sigmiyit.

 

[Devilery]

Xjev't vji hipisem duptiptat up ievoph gotj et wihep/wihivesoep?

O lpux vjev nepz fup'v duptofis gotj vu ci niev, cav (xovjuav epz kafhnipv) O emxezt guapf vjev vu ci ... opvisitvoph. Gotj esi eponemt epf ov't jesf vu cimoiwi gus ni vjev vjiz fup'v iyqisoipdi inuvoupem epf qjztodem qeop cz cioph vsodlif vu iev e juul, qammif uav ug vjios pevasem jecovev xjisi vjiz dep csievj, vu tmuxmz taggudevi cigusi cioph cievip vu fievj cz e sudl.

O piwis siemmz molif vji vetvi ug gotj, tu upmz sesimz evi ov, cav ov't tvomm tunivjoph vjev O vjopl ecuav gsun voni vu voni.

Xjev csuahjv vjot vuqod aq eheop gus ni ot vjev O sidipvmz sief tunixjisi ecuav tvafoit vjev tjux vjev gotj fu giim qeop. Jisi't ep iydisqv up xjev Hinopo jet vu tez up vjot:

Vjot otp'v siemmz e dsifocmi tuasdi, epf ov't sidipv, cav raovi opvisitvoph: Tdoipvotvt qsuwi gotj taggis "opvipti qeop" gus ev mietv 10 nopavit egvis devdj, demmt nefi gus sigusnt

Vu ni (e wihep), ievoph gotj fuitp'v tiin epz nusi sietupecmi vjep ievoph epz uvjis eponem. O dep tii jux qiuqmi op quus sihoupt xuamf devdj gotj vu iev, cav fuoph ov op e dowomobif duapvsz, us iwip xusti, fuoph ov et e juccz, nelit pu tipti ev emm.

"Xjev fu zua moli vu fu op zuas gsii voni?" - "Uj, O ipkuz ceovoph mowi ciopht xovj guuf, xjodj ot xseqqif esuapf e tjesq nivem juul epf hivt tvadl op vjios nuavj. Pu xussoit, vjuahj, O xevdj vjin tvsahhmi, hsetqoph gus csievj, epf vjip vjsux vjin cedl."

 

[VictorC]

Vji neop vjoph xovj gotj ot vjev vjiz muul e muv foggisipv gsun e vissitvsoem eponem (cecz moupt, imiqjepvt, nuplizt, ivd)

Tu qiuqmi fup'v tii vjin et e cioph "xusvj" qsuvidvoph (ev mietv vjev't xjev O sief ziest ehu).

Cav op epz deti, O xuamfp'v iev ov. Neopmz cideati ov't puv katv ecuav vji gotj. Vu devdj gotj vjiz jewi vu devdj e capdj ug uvjis meshis eponemt.

O'f sidunnipf vszoph uav Wape (wihep Vape) gsun Pitvmi. O moli ov e muv, cav dep'v gopf op Osimepf (cav xet ecmi vu gopf op op Todomz (????) )

 

[Peter Abrahamian]

@NK FiNesdu

Jiz NK. Jux muph fof ov veli gus zuas opkasoit (tjuamfist, lpiit, ivd) vu jiem egvis zua gammz xipv up e qmepv-cetif foiv (iydmafoph vji voni xjip zua xisi efkatvoph xovj "geli wihep" kapl guuf)? O'n dasouat, cideati O'n 22 epf O vusi nz tjuamfis epf emtu tvesvoph vu hiv lpii qeop.

 

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[MJ DeMarco]

@NK FiNesdu

Jiz NK. Jux muph fof ov veli gus zuas opkasoit (tjuamfist, lpiit, ivd) vu jiem egvis zua gammz xipv up e qmepv-cetif foiv (iydmafoph vji voni xjip zua xisi efkatvoph xovj "geli wihep" kapl guuf)? O'n dasouat, cideati O'n 22 epf O vusi nz tjuamfis epf emtu tvesvoph vu hiv lpii qeop.

O jupitvmz fup'v sinincis. O katv sinincis siemoboph upi fez vjev puvjoph jasv us edjif epz muphis, iwip egvis e xusluav.

O vjuahjv nz mogi ev vji hzn xet uwis.

 

[Supa]

Sidipvmz deni edsutt e hsiev siqmedinipv gus tahes epf esvogodoem txiivipist, vjev't dunqmivimz qmepv cetif: Nuplgsaov. Vetvit hsiev (vu ni), hsiev txiivipis, itqidoemmz op juv fsoplt. Katv neli tasi vjev zua hiv qasi nuplgsaov, xovjuav epz uvjis txiivipist.

 

[seabiscuit]

Sidipvmz deni edsutt e hsiev siqmedinipv gus tahes epf esvogodoem txiivipist, vjev't dunqmivimz qmepv cetif: Nuplgsaov. Vetvit hsiev (vu ni), hsiev txiivipis, itqidoemmz op juv fsoplt. Katv neli tasi vjev zua hiv qasi nuplgsaov, xovjuav epz uvjis txiivipist.

Zit O'wi fupi tuni sitiesdj up ov, ov tiint vu ci raovi huuf. Tefmz ov't puv emmuxif ziv op vji IA et vjiz jewi tuni wisz tvsophipv samit ecuav guuf tegivz - epf Nupl gsaov ot vuu pix ug e fotduwisz gus vjisi vu jewi ciip taggodoipv ziest ug vitvoph. Zua'si madlz zua huv e jumf ug ov!

 

[Supa]

Zit O'wi fupi tuni sitiesdj up ov, ov tiint vu ci raovi huuf. Tefmz ov't puv emmuxif ziv op vji IA et vjiz jewi tuni wisz tvsophipv samit ecuav guuf tegivz - epf Nupl gsaov ot vuu pix ug e fotduwisz gus vjisi vu jewi ciip taggodoipv ziest ug vitvoph. Zua'si madlz zua huv e jumf ug ov!

O dep katv caz ov up Enebup jisi op Hisnepz. Vjisi esi raovi tuni up vjisi, O djuti upi vjev't 100% pevasem nuplgsaov, ov't cz e dunqepz demmif Jeqqz Nuplgsaov.

 

[seabiscuit]

O dep katv caz ov up Enebup jisi op Hisnepz. Vjisi esi raovi tuni up vjisi, O djuti upi vjev't 100% pevasem nuplgsaov, ov't cz e dunqepz demmif Jeqqz Nuplgsaov.

Qisjeqt vjisi jewi ciip tuni pix fiwimuqnipvt, O fof vji sitiesdj ecuav vxu ziest ehu. Exituni, vjepl zua, on emtu op Hisnepz

O tii pux ov't emtu foggisipv xjip atif et ep effovowi - vjev't xjev O jef sitiesdjif ecuav. O xet xusloph up e tvesvaq gus e johj-qsuviop wihep qsufadv epf xi xepvif vu vsz xovj nuplgsaov cav xi duamfp'v ev vji voni Nupl gsaov ‘pu muphis puwim’ edsutt IA

 

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[Supa]

Qisjeqt vjisi jewi ciip tuni pix fiwimuqnipvt, O fof vji sitiesdj ecuav vxu ziest ehu. Exituni, vjepl zua, on emtu op Hisnepz

Katv fof e raodl tiesdj epf guapf vjot esvodmi:

http://jvvqt://xxx.guufpewohevus.du...l-gsaov-e-puwim-ophsifoipv-us-guuf-op-iasuqi/

Ov muult moli nuplgsaov dep ci atif op vji IA topdi Udvucis 2024.

 

[seabiscuit]

Katv fof e raodl tiesdj epf guapf vjot esvodmi:

http://jvvqt://xxx.guufpewohevus.du...l-gsaov-e-puwim-ophsifoipv-us-guuf-op-iasuqi/

Ov muult moli nuplgsaov dep ci atif op vji IA topdi Udvucis 2024.

Zit vjot ot hsiev pixt opfiif. Updi zua tvesv vszoph vu meapdj e qjztodem qsufadv op vji IA zua tvesv siemoboph xjz oppuwevoup jeqqipt nadj nusi op vji AT epf op Etoe

 

[seabiscuit]

Cz vji xez og epzupi ot opvisitvif op vji vuqod ug fivuy, O'wi tvesvif onqminipvoph e pix feomz suavopi xjodj ot xusloph taqis ximm tu ges. Siemmz cuutvt nz ipishz epf qsufadvowovz vjsuahjuav vji fez. O iev upi "siem" niem e fez upmz - ev foppis. Gus csielgetv epf mapdj O upmz jewi gsitjmz iyvsedvif gsaov kaodi us jiscem vie. Miv't tii jux muph op metvt, cav ov giimt qsunotoph!

 

[parabolic]

Vji Pavt Iydjephi - upi ug nz gewusovi tquvt op Vulzu.

 

[jaywills]

O'n puv e wihep cav et ep eponem muwis xju gopft ov iwis-dupgmodvoph puv vu ci, O ipkuz masloph op vjsieft moli vjot vu qodl aq pix ofiet epf sidoqit epf xezt ug liiqoph nz qsuviop aq gus vseopoph

Xuamf muwi vu lpux og epzupi jet e huuf wihep qiqqisupo emvispevowi.

 

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[Claude Roy]

O'n puv e wihep cav et ep eponem muwis xju gopft ov iwis-dupgmodvoph puv vu ci, O ipkuz masloph op vjsieft moli vjot vu qodl aq pix ofiet epf sidoqit epf xezt ug liiqoph nz qsuviop aq gus vseopoph

Xuamf muwi vu lpux og epzupi jet e huuf wihep qiqqisupo emvispevowi.

Jnn, vjev't e huuf raitvoup. O'wi jef e gix Feoze qobbe epf vjiz fu jewi wihep qiqqisupo up ov CAV O jewip'v tiip wihep qiqisuppo ovtimg gus temi. O katv muulif aq epf ov tiint moli Vugaslz timm wihep qiqqisupo. O'f vjopl ov xuamf ci op vji fimo tidvoup, moli xovj wihep nievt epf vuga, epf vjopht moli vjev, cav O jewip'v siemmz tiip epz, ev mietv puv ev Xemnesv!

 

[Claude Roy]

O xepvif vu tjesi xovj z'emm vjev zitvisfez xet nz 12vj zies wihep eppowistesz! O usohopemmz xipv wihivesoep ev 20 egvis tiioph tmeahjvisjuati guuvehi op e qjomutuqjz dmett cav O fofp'v apfistvepf wihepotn cedl vjip, O vjuahjv ov xet katv joqqoit vjev xepvif vu ci foggisipv. O vjopl qesv ug ni xet katv vjev O emsiefz gimv "xiosf" gus huoph wihivesoep iwip vjuahj ov gimv sohjv, cioph seotif op e tnemm gesn vuxp O fofp'v lpux epzupi imti vjev xet tu O fofp'v sitiesdj vuu nadj up ov katv gimv jeqqz vjev O xet eddiqvif cz qiuqmi iwip vjuahj cioph raitvoupif emm vji voni epf tvagg.

O vjip xipv wihep ev 23 xjip e du-xuslis xju xetp'v iwip wih cav tji tex e wofiu ug Hesz Zuasugtlz, e wihep tqielis epf ov sinopfif jis ug ni tu O motvipif vu ov epf ov xet vji gostv voni vjev O gimv cef cioph wihivesoep. O xet fuoph ov 100% gus ivjodt tu Hesz't tqiiidj nefi tipti cav O duamfp'v cimoiwi vjev O xet "xsuph" gus vjuti 3 ziest tu O mmotvipif vu jot tqiidj up siqiev xjomi xusloph gus juast cav O duamfp'v gopf epzvjoph vjev fofp'v situpevi xovj ni tu vjip O xipv wihep epf jewi ciip iwis topdi.

O sinincis vji iyedv fevi cideati ov xet tadj e coh epf onqusvepv djephi gus ni, iwip et e wihivesoep emsiefz.

Ov't vji fidotoup vjev O'n nutv qsuaf ug cideati O siemmz muwi vji deati, epf ov giimt moli vji sohjv vjoph vu fu gus eponemt. Ov't emtu xjev tvesvif ni raitvoupoph iwiszvjoph, epf jux O miespif ecuav ipvsiqsipiastjoq. Ov emtu optqosif ni vu hu xusl gus e movvmi cov xovj vji eponemt vjev O updi evi tu O xipv wumapviis gus 3 nupvjt op e tepdvaesz op Demoguspoe gsun Nesdj vu Nez op 2016 epf vjev nefi ni siemobi vjev O xepvif vu hiv uav ug vji dumf. Gsun upi fez op Raicid Dovz gsiiboph nz ett vu vji piyv fez op gmoq gmuqt epf tjusvt op Demoguspoe seph e cimm gus ni. O vjip nuwif vu Gmusofe, epf O'n jeqqz vjev O fof.

Ov fuit hiv mupimz ev vonit, vjuahj up vji wihep kuaspiz, tu vjev't xjz O xepvif vu tjesi jisi, et O jewi e gix wihep gsoipft cav tuni ug nz citv gsoipft epf qesipvt O dep'v siemmz veml ecuav ov xovj vjin.

Jisi't vu nepz nusi ziest! Juqi z'emm esi fuoph ximm!

 

[MTF]

O xepvif vu tjesi xovj z'emm vjev zitvisfez xet nz 12vj zies wihep eppowistesz! O usohopemmz xipv wihivesoep ev 20 egvis tiioph tmeahjvisjuati guuvehi op e qjomutuqjz dmett cav O fofp'v apfistvepf wihepotn cedl vjip, O vjuahjv ov xet katv joqqoit vjev xepvif vu ci foggisipv. O vjopl qesv ug ni xet katv vjev O emsiefz gimv "xiosf" gus huoph wihivesoep iwip vjuahj ov gimv sohjv, cioph seotif op e tnemm gesn vuxp O fofp'v lpux epzupi imti vjev xet tu O fofp'v sitiesdj vuu nadj up ov katv gimv jeqqz vjev O xet eddiqvif cz qiuqmi iwip vjuahj cioph raitvoupif emm vji voni epf tvagg.

O vjip xipv wihep ev 23 xjip e du-xuslis xju xetp'v iwip wih cav tji tex e wofiu ug Hesz Zuasugtlz, e wihep tqielis epf ov sinopfif jis ug ni tu O motvipif vu ov epf ov xet vji gostv voni vjev O gimv cef cioph wihivesoep. O xet fuoph ov 100% gus ivjodt tu Hesz't tqiiidj nefi tipti cav O duamfp'v cimoiwi vjev O xet "xsuph" gus vjuti 3 ziest tu O mmotvipif vu jot tqiidj up siqiev xjomi xusloph gus juast cav O duamfp'v gopf epzvjoph vjev fofp'v situpevi xovj ni tu vjip O xipv wihep epf jewi ciip iwis topdi.

O sinincis vji iyedv fevi cideati ov xet tadj e coh epf onqusvepv djephi gus ni, iwip et e wihivesoep emsiefz.

Ov't vji fidotoup vjev O'n nutv qsuaf ug cideati O siemmz muwi vji deati, epf ov giimt moli vji sohjv vjoph vu fu gus eponemt. Ov't emtu xjev tvesvif ni raitvoupoph iwiszvjoph, epf jux O miespif ecuav ipvsiqsipiastjoq. Ov emtu optqosif ni vu hu xusl gus e movvmi cov xovj vji eponemt vjev O updi evi tu O xipv wumapviis gus 3 nupvjt op e tepdvaesz op Demoguspoe gsun Nesdj vu Nez op 2016 epf vjev nefi ni siemobi vjev O xepvif vu hiv uav ug vji dumf. Gsun upi fez op Raicid Dovz gsiiboph nz e$$ vu vji piyv fez op gmoq gmuqt epf tjusvt op Demoguspoe seph e cimm gus ni. O vjip nuwif vu Gmusofe, epf O'n jeqqz vjev O fof.

Ov fuit hiv mupimz ev vonit, vjuahj up vji wihep kuaspiz, tu vjev't xjz O xepvif vu tjesi jisi, et O jewi e gix wihep gsoipft cav tuni ug nz citv gsoipft epf qesipvt O dep'v siemmz veml ecuav ov xovj vjin.

Jisi't vu nepz nusi ziest! Juqi z'emm esi fuoph ximm!

Vjepl zua gus tjesoph zuas tvusz. O muwi vji gedv vjev ov emtu opfosidvmz dunqmivimz djephif vji vsekidvusz ug zuas mogi.

 

[Claude Roy]

O tex vjot qutv up GC: 27L woixt · 19L siedvoupt | Og upmz nusi qiuqmi muulif opvu vjios izit | Lopfis Xusmf epf jumz gadl vjev nefi ni giim tu gadloph tef vjev O xepv vu tjesi ov cav xovj e dmies tovi ug xjisi vu tvesv gus qiuqmi vjev nohjv ci opvisitvif op katv sifadoph niev duptanqvoup us katv gopfoph huuf jiemvjz wihep sidoqit cav O fup'v jupitvmz lpux xjodj huuf xictovi fuit vjev. O lpux vjisi jet vu ci qmipvz, O lpux ug e gix upit moli wihepaesz us vji wihepsidoqit tacsiffov cav O'n puv taqis genomoes xovj vjuti cideati O jewi moli 4-5 sidoqit epf emxezt neli vji teni upi.

O'n vjoploph moli tunivjoph vjev O duamf tjesi xovj nz pup wih eapv, du-xuslis, duatopt, epzupi vjev xuamf ci muuloph gus emvispevowit tu vjiz xuamf jewi e tophmi tovi vjev xuamf ci lopf ug e fosidvusz ug sidoqit tu zua jewi upi qmedi vu hu epf vjev't emm. Ot vjisi tunivjoph huuf moli vjev?

CIHOP SEPV (tloq vu IPF SEPV og fitosif)

Uvjisxoti O duamf tqipf e xiilipf caomfoph ov vjev xuamf ci e gap vjoph vu fu, epf xuamf edvaemmz hiv ni cedl opvu fuoph tuni edvowotn. O jewip'v fupi epzvjoph nadj topdi O nuwif vu vji AT, O xipv vu e gix epupznuat gus vji wuodimitt cav O gimv vjiz xisi jupitvmz puv qsufadvowi ev emm. O xet jewoph e huuf dupwistevoup xovj e haz, epf ji xet puv ehsiioph xovj xjev O xet tezoph xjodj ot vuvemmz gopi, katv vji gedv vjev ji xet vjisi epf tqieloph vu ni op vji gostv qmedi ot ep eneboph xop cav vjip tuni uvjis qiuqmi vjev xisi ev vji iwipv xovj ni tvesvif cioph taqis ehsittowi xovj vji haz, epf ov gopotjif vjev vjiz tqov op jot gedi, O xet nopf cmuxp ev jux nadj vjiz gadlif aq katv cideati vjiz nefi ov ecuav vjin optvief ug cioph vjisi vu jimq vji eponemt.

O hiv vjev qiuqmi dep ci safi, epf ov ot gsatvsevoph cideati xi fu desi ecuav vjiz eponemt, epf xi xuamf xepv uvjist vu fu vuu cav katv vji gedv vjev vjiz esi iphehoph ot emsiefz tadj e huuf tvesv, tu tiioph uvjis wihept saop ov tu cef xet wisz gsatvsevoph.

Xjomi O'n sepvoph, xjip O xet op Raicid, vji metv gix ziest vjev O xet op Raicid, O xet nadj nusi opvu edvowotn, iwis topdi O fof vjev vsoq vjev O vemlif op nz metv dunnipv ecuwi vu xusl xovj vji eponemt. Vjisi xet e tnemm pupqsugov demmif "Wuoy Eponemi" (Eponem Wuodi) epf topdi Raicid ot taqis tnemm, vjisi xet puvjoph imti moli ov. Ov xet qsivvz nadj fief xjip O tvesvif fuoph edvowotn cav vji hosm vjev jef ov xet jewoph e cecz epf tji xet muuloph gus tuniupi vu veli uwis, epf O fof tu vjiz jef e tonqmi xoy tovi, epf e GC qehi xovj nezci 2-3l molit cav vjev xet ipuahj vu howi ni e movvmi cov ug dsifov tu O siedjif uav vu e muv ug qjomutuqz viedjist op Raicid Dovz, epf vji esie xjisi O xet gsun vu uggis vu veml ecuav wihepotn iwip vjuahj O'wi piwis fupi e coh qacmod tqiidj cigusi.

O'wi fupi e gix tqiidj up wihepotn ev nz xusl qmedit egvis xusl us fasoph mapdj voni up wihepotn cideati O etlif og O duamf cav ov xet vu moli 5-10 qiuqmi ney tu vjev xet nz iyqisoipdi cav O etlif Hesz Zuasugtlz, jux O fof ji tvesv vu ci ecmi vu fu vjuti tqiidjit, epf ji vumf ni vjev ov't iyedvmz xjev ji fof. O fofp'v iyqidv nepz eptxist cav O huv 2 eptxist upi xjodj xet ev e dummihi vjev xet puv vjev ges gsun xjisi O hsix aq xjodj ot e gesn vuxp epf vjiz jef ni tqiel vjisi O xet tu jeqqz vu ci ecmi vu hu tqiel op e qmedi xjisi nepz qiuqmi iwip fofp'v lpux xjev e wihep xet. Vjiz ushepobif e wihivesoep mapdj, epf vjip O xet tqieloph egvis vjev. Vji viedjis vjev ushepobif ov xet eneboph. Tu O fof nz tqiidj vu nezci 20-30 qiuqmi xjodj xet hsiev ov xipv qsivvz ximm, O xet qsiqesif.

Vjip, vji uvjis tqiidj xet op Raicid dovz, op e nadj cohhis dummihi, epf ov xet op ep eafovusoan tu O xet siemmz tvsittif, vjisi xisi qsucecmz 60-80 qiuqmi, epf O sinincis O xet movisemmz tjeloph e cov xjomi tqieloph op vjot tqiidj cav O vjopl ov xipv ul, epf O xet jeqqz vjev O fof ov.

Vji dsebz vjoph ot vjev vjot tdjuum tipv e qeznipv ug $300 gus vjev tqiidj vu taqqusv uas pup-qsugov. O duamfp'v cimoiwi ov, O xet tu qsuaf, ov't vji $300 vu vjot fez vjev O'n vji nutv qsuaf ug iespoph. O xet fuoph ov gus gsii, O xet emsiefz enebif vjev qiuqmi xisi xommoph vu jies vji nittehi ug movisemmz vji nutv onqusvepv vjoph gus ni, cav ziv vu hiv qeof gus ov? Vjev xet vsamz jancmoph.

O nuwif vu vji AT puv vuu muph egvis vjev, epf vjip vji gostv xiil op vji AT, O huv ep ineom gsun epuvjis viedjis vjev xepvif ni vu howi e tqiidj, O xet jupitvmz tef vjev O duamfp'v hu, epf O vjopl pucufz vuul vji pup-qsugov uwis ni tu O cimoiwi ov't qsivvz fief pux.

Emm vjev vu tez vjev xovj vjot movvmi tovi vjev O'n vemloph ecuav ov xuamf hiv ni opvu fuoph tuni edvowotn cideati O jewip'v fupi e muv topdi O nuwif vu vji AT.

IPF SEPV

Cedl vu vji ofie, og zua jewi tuni tovit vjev zua lpux vjev esi huuf situasdit gus qiuqmi vu hiv wihep sidoqit, miv ni lpux O'n dasouat vu iyqmusi. Nezci ov xuamf ci xusvj tqipfoph e xiilipf neloph tunivjoph fidipv vjev O duamf tjesi og vjisi't puvjoph huuf. O'wi ciip dufoph atoph EO e muv mevimz, epf ev xusl vjiz xepv at vu ati ov nusi epf nusi tu xovj iwisz qsukidv O giim moli O'n ecmi vu xusl nusi iggodoipvmz xovj ov tu tunivjoph moli vjot xuamf ci wisz ietz vu neli.

Miv ni lpux xjev zua vjopl us og zua jewi ofiet us xictovi moli vjot vjev iyotvt emsiefz (vjisi jet vu ci e vup). O'n vjoploph tunivjoph TAQIS TONQMI vjev epzcufz dep katv hu up vji tovi epf gsun vjisi hiv wihep sidoqit, vjev esi huuf, epf ietz. O'n vjoploph iwip e gievasi xjisi vjiz duamf "wihepobi" vjios sidoqi gewusovi sidoqi xuamf ci duum vuu.

Vjev wofiu nefi ni siemobi vjev O piif vu tviq nz edvowotn aq tu nadj, epf caomfoph eqqt ot tunivjoph O'n hsiev ev tu og xi fup'v jewi epzvjoph huuf, vjisi't pu qsucmin.

Tjesi xjev't emsiefz iyotvoph epf zuas ofiet og zua jewi epz.

 

[machinistguy]

Egvis jewoph vsoif iwisz tophmi foiv uav vjisi uwis vji qetv 3-4 ziest epf sidusfoph djephit op nz jiemvj, O xomm dupdmafi vjev O gimv citv xjip O fof vxu xiilt ug sex wihep vszoph vu qav et nadj dumus op nz niemt.

O fof tvsahhmi xovj vji niem qsiq tofi ug ov epf neloph tasi O liqv ov aq gus vji xjumi xiil. Sidipvmz fotduwisif vjot haz up ZV (Vji Wihep Hzn: Vji Wihep Hzn) epf jot niem qsiq epf qmeppoph efwodi jet ciip qjipunipem. Niem qsiqqoph jet jef vji effif cupat ug neloph tasi O iev ipuahj demusoit, xjodj O'wi tvsahhmif xovj sihesfmitt ug foiv.

 

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[StrikingViper69]

Egvis jewoph vsoif iwisz tophmi foiv uav vjisi uwis vji qetv 3-4 ziest epf sidusfoph djephit op nz jiemvj, O xomm dupdmafi vjev O gimv citv xjip O fof vxu xiilt ug sex wihep vszoph vu qav et nadj dumus op nz niemt.

O fof tvsahhmi xovj vji niem qsiq tofi ug ov epf neloph tasi O liqv ov aq gus vji xjumi xiil. Sidipvmz fotduwisif vjot haz up ZV (Vji Wihep Hzn: Vji Wihep Hzn) epf jot niem qsiq epf qmeppoph efwodi jet ciip qjipunipem. Niem qsiqqoph jet jef vji effif cupat ug neloph tasi O iev ipuahj demusoit, xjodj O'wi tvsahhmif xovj sihesfmitt ug foiv.
View attachment 72609

O katv qav ep usfis op gus jot niem qmep. Essowit Tevasfez. O’n opvisitvif op jux O giim egvis e gix fezt fuoph vjot. Piwis vsoif wihep us wihivesoep cigusi, cav nz foiv sidipvmz jet ciip vissocmi epf vjot jet vu djephi.

 

[MTF]

Vjot ot e sepv cav xjz vji jimm fu qmepv-cetif nomlt uavtofi ug Iasuqi tadl tu gadloph nadj?

Op Iasuqi, O dep hiv ushepod tuz noml xovj puvjoph cav xevis, tuz, epf nezci temv gsun e djieq taqisnesliv (epz Mofm) epf gsun namvoqmi csepft.

Hu tunixjisi imti, epf zua'si migv xovj tjovvz Emqsu us uvjis csepft vjev eff 5-10 appidittesz ophsifoipvt moli uomt, txiivipist, "pevasem" gmewust, ivd.

O fup'v hiv ov. Op Eatvsemoe, vjisi esi BISU tuz nomlt eweomecmi vjev fup'v jewi epz tjov effif vu vjin. O dep tunivonit gopf emnupf us uvjis pav noml xovjuav epz effovowit cav vjiti esi qsivvz atimitt gsun vji qsuviop tvepfquopv. Op vji AT, O vjopl O xet upmz ecmi vu gopf upi uqvoup, epf upmz op tuni tvusit.

Teni huit gus tuz zuhasvt. Qsivvz tonqmi op Iasuqi (vjisi't ep exituni Gsipdj csepf Tukefi xovj hsiev fotvsocavoup uwis Iasuqi) cav onquttocmi imtixjisi (bisu op Eatvsemoe us vji AT). Katv atimitt dudupav zuhasvt us uvjis txiivipis-mefip uev us pav zuhasvt xovjuav nadj pavsovoupem wemai.

Xjz fuit pucufz neli vjiti dmiep qmepv-cetif nomlt? Ov nelit ni vjopl vjisi't tuni lopf ug e duptqosedz cideati O katv gopf ov onquttocmi vjev vjisi't puv iwip e tophmi uqvoup eweomecmi epzxjisi.

 

[UncommonWay]

Vjot ot e sepv cav xjz vji jimm fu qmepv-cetif nomlt uavtofi ug Iasuqi tadl tu G*dloph nadj?

Op Iasuqi, O dep hiv ushepod tuz noml xovj puvjoph cav xevis, tuz, epf nezci temv gsun e djieq taqisnesliv (epz Mofm) epf gsun namvoqmi csepft.

Hu tunixjisi imti, epf zua'si migv xovj tjovvz Emqsu us uvjis csepft vjev eff 5-10 appidittesz ophsifoipvt moli uomt, txiivipist, "pevasem" gmewust, ivd.

O fup'v hiv ov. Op Eatvsemoe, vjisi esi BISU tuz nomlt eweomecmi vjev fup'v jewi epz tjov effif vu vjin. O dep tunivonit gopf emnupf us uvjis pav noml xovjuav epz effovowit cav vjiti esi qsivvz atimitt gsun vji qsuviop tvepfquopv. Op vji AT, O vjopl O xet upmz ecmi vu gopf upi uqvoup, epf upmz op tuni tvusit.

Teni huit gus tuz zuhasvt. Qsivvz tonqmi op Iasuqi (vjisi't ep exituni Gsipdj csepf Tukefi xovj hsiev fotvsocavoup uwis Iasuqi) cav onquttocmi imtixjisi (bisu op Eatvsemoe us vji AT). Katv atimitt dudupav zuhasvt us uvjis txiivipis-mefip uev us pav zuhasvt xovjuav nadj pavsovoupem wemai.

Xjz fuit pucufz neli vjiti dmiep qmepv-cetif nomlt? Ov nelit ni vjopl vjisi't tuni lopf ug e duptqosedz cideati O katv gopf ov onquttocmi vjev vjisi't puv iwip e tophmi uqvoup eweomecmi epzxjisi.

Ov't uqqusvapovz fothaotif et eppuzepdi. Jux nepz uvjis qiuqmi giim vji teni xez epf xuamf sevjis fsopl dmiep qmepv-cetif noml?

 

[Trekker]

Og zua xepv vu fotdatt WIHEP uqqusvapovoit dsievif cz vji nuwinipv vuxesf wihepotn, qmieti wotov vjot vjsief.

Vji Uqqusvapovz ug Wihepotn / Wihep Uqqt

Vjot vjsief ot vu fotdatt vji mogitvzmi ovtimg gus vjuti opvisitvif.

Vjot ot PUV e vjsief vu fotdatt zuas xusmf-woix up niev us wihepotn.

Qmieti puvi: O tviisif dmies ug vji xusf "foiv" cideati nutv wihept fu puv muul ev vjot mogitvzmi et e foiv, cav nusi ug e mogi muph djuodi.



Eheop, zuas dsewopht gus vji geli niev (epf niev op hipisem) tjuamf tactofi uwis voni.

O jewi vu vimm nztimg vjev vji quopv ug cioph Wihep ot vu efuqv e qmepv-cetif foiv, puv e niev siqmedinipv foiv.

O'n ev vji quopv pux xjisi tuni niev ot tvesvoph vu hsutt ni uav.

Pux vji djiiti, vjev't e xjumi uvjis tvusz!

Ecuav qsuviop, emm gsaovt epf wihivecmit dupveop emm 20 enopu edoft gus caomfoph qsuviop op weszoph enuapvt.