What's your motivation to do things if you don't need to make money.

[ShamanKing]

Write a book.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Anon3114]

So I'm bumping this thread because it is a year later and I honestly don't have any new answers.

I'm in no position to give an advice, but I have an idea.

Lots of folks like me have no one to learn from in person.

Have you ever think of helping people without using money, secretly, by giving them hints on their journeys?

You don't have to disclose who you are.

You could watch results of your actions. We, the ones who have big dreams, really need that kind of influence.

 

[biophase]

@biophase you are the originator of 'the superman speech'.
you changed a LOT of our lives that day in Phoenix.
you have superpowers. you are called to use them for good, brother.

i have a challenge for you:
create the next @biophase 's
teach. give back. show others the way. send the elevator back down.

your new scorecard could be the impact those you impact make

Hi Zane, I do think alot about that speech. Not the actual speech, but if I am living up to it.

I do think I can help others. I just don't know what the structure would be or the delivery system. I think I just don't want to commit myself to something that I'm not fully all in on. I've also come to the conclusion that I think alot. I mean alot. My brain runs through so many scenarios all day.

Just as an example, let's say I start a youtube channel. I know that I can post every week for 3-6 months easy. However, I'm already dreading the thought of having to make videos a year from now. I'm not worried about content or editing or the actual work. I'm thinking, "man in a year, I could hate doing this. But I can't just shut down a channel and disappoint all my subscribers." So I would rather not start it.

I'm sure my brain will come up with something to do. But in the meantime, I'm just cruising and enjoying life.

 

[biophase]

At 63, I'm probably as happy and challenged as I have ever been. Haven't always felt that way though.

When you say challenged, what is it that you are doing that is challenging?

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[ZCP]

Hi Zane, I do think alot about that speech. Not the actual speech, but if I am living up to it.

You are blessed and cursed, Kenric. You see the end just at the beginning. It gives you great power because you can build great things. It gives you great trepidation because you see all that is involved.

I think you need the Elon Musk office. You in the middle. Lot of people working on things around you. You wander by and put ideas out there for others to do 'the day to day'.

That is why, to me, your new calling is to make more @biophase 's. Help start a think tank, run by someone other than you. It leverages you and your ideas WITHOUT you being day to day committed. The only requirement to be in it is that 10% of profits go to a cause (or some similar idea). Then you can leverage yourself.

So back to the quoted sentence above, and I mean this in the best most loving way possible (because, dude, you really mean a lot to me personally) ...... if you don't pass along your wisdom, then no, you are not living up to it.

If being afraid of all the work, or being afraid that you cannot let it be less than perfect, or it not occurring because you cannot 'give a little advice' vs doing the whole thing yourself, or you cannot do it because you might not be 1000% excited about it 3 months from now ..... if that is the result, then Superman has left the building.

-------------------
In reality, I agree. Something will pop up. Enjoy your time, you have more than earned it. Patience, something will come along that sparks Superman. Love you, bro!

 

[SteveO]

When you say challenged, what is it that you are doing that is challenging?

I now view the golf course and my house/yard as my canvas. I am painting them. They are MY expression!

Also, really into my jeep. Building it beyond belief. Love wheeling in the wilderness.

 

[fastlane_dad]

Hi Zane, I do think alot about that speech. Not the actual speech, but if I am living up to it.

I do think I can help others. I just don't know what the structure would be or the delivery system. I think I just don't want to commit myself to something that I'm not fully all in on. I've also come to the conclusion that I think alot. I mean alot. My brain runs through so many scenarios all day.

Just as an example, let's say I start a youtube channel. I know that I can post every week for 3-6 months easy. However, I'm already dreading the thought of having to make videos a year from now. I'm not worried about content or editing or the actual work. I'm thinking, "man in a year, I could hate doing this. But I can't just shut down a channel and disappoint all my subscribers." So I would rather not start it.

I'm sure my brain will come up with something to do. But in the meantime, I'm just cruising and enjoying life.

@biophase

Read through the thread, very interesting position to be in and one I find myself in after a successful amazon fba business exit that happened close to a year ago.

I happen to time it out simultaneous to the birth of my first son - so a LOT (and i mean a LOT) of time, energy and mental resources have been shifted to that from running a business (do you have any kids or planning on having any)?

I am also at or near the level of 'enough' - wealth and possessions such as housing / cars / hobbies etc. There is always 'more', but the return on value starts to diminish very quickly at this point past what I got.

It is tough to view business in the same way now as well, and the money hunger is nowhere near the level of 15 / 20 years ago. Doing and starting a business just for 'moneys' sake seems to be a non starter. And and you mentioned - I very well now know the extent and level of work, commitment and process necessary to create a running business (especially one that gets to the point of being hands off). I am not interested in creating another 'job' for myself.

Things that I have slowly shifted (or thoughts that shifted) - is taking a much longer view now, things that I can contribute to 5-10 years with no immediate pay off. So things like starting a blog, podcasting, mentoring either one-on-one or through mastermind type groups. I have been looking into investments and how to deploy capital (for wealth preservation, growth and making sure I never run out of money!) Also doing a lot of thinking along my current hobbies, and if/how a fusion of business and passions can co-exist.

I am still interested in business, as I love the idea of starting something from scratch and watching it grow. Money will come as a side effect of providing significant value (which I hope I can do this time around as well!)

I am well versed in e-commerce and have been around this space for close to 20 years. But the idea of just selling another 'product' or recreating another amazon business (even if it provides significant value for customers) does not seem very exciting anymore.

Chiming in here to hear more thoughts and mindsets on where to go from here!!

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[WJK]

@biophase

Read through the thread, very interesting position to be in and one I find myself in after a successful amazon fba business exit that happened close to a year ago.

I happen to time it out simultaneous to the birth of my first son - so a LOT (and i mean a LOT) of time, energy and mental resources have been shifted to that from running a business (do you have any kids or planning on having any)?

I am also at or near the level of 'enough' - wealth and possessions such as housing / cars / hobbies etc. There is always 'more', but the return on value starts to diminish very quickly at this point past what I got.

It is tough to view business in the same way now as well, and the money hunger is nowhere near the level of 15 / 20 years ago. Doing and starting a business just for 'moneys' sake seems to be a non starter. And and you mentioned - I very well now know the extent and level of work, commitment and process necessary to create a running business (especially one that gets to the point of being hands off). I am not interested in creating another 'job' for myself.

Things that I have slowly shifted (or thoughts that shifted) - is taking a much longer view now, things that I can contribute to 5-10 years with no immediate pay off. So things like starting a blog, podcasting, mentoring either one-on-one or through mastermind type groups. I have been looking into investments and how to deploy capital (for wealth preservation, growth and making sure I never run out of money!) Also doing a lot of thinking along my current hobbies, and if/how a fusion of business and passions can co-exist.

I am still interested in business, as I love the idea of starting something from scratch and watching it grow. Money will come as Ba side effect of providing significant value (which I hope I can do this time around as well!)

I am well versed in e-commerce and have been around this space for close to 20 years. But the idea of just selling another 'product' or recreating another amazon business (even if it provides significant value for customers) does not seem very exciting anymore.

Chiming in here to hear more thoughts and mindsets on where to go from here!!

Being in your financial position does bring a different point of view. I have found that I don't see things the same way anymore. IF I lost everything -- I don't think I would go back to the old mindset. It is a totally different paradigm. Once you stick your head through those clouds, the world never looks nor feels the same. You have different priorities.

 

[Mckenzie]

"What do you feel you would regret not doing more of now when you are 80, 90, 100 years old?", I don't know. I think if I had an answer I would be trying to do it now.

This book “The top five regrets of the dying “ by Bronnie Ware helps me to answer this question lately

 

[Determined2012]

Self actualization and fulfillment.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[LateStarter]

Another year passes... so it's time to check in with @biophase . How are you doing Kenric? How's the basketball court coming along?

I'm 48 and I admit that in terms of net worth, I'm not where you're at. I have enough that my wife and I can retire today if we wanted to. She is feeling like it's "enough", while I still want to contribute more, do more, learn more despite it no longer being purely about money. I say that just to preface that I am not in your position and am not pretending to be.

My fastlane has been in real estate (building, flipping, and buy & hold) so I get the appeal of REI. After working in this industry during some really good years, it's painful to see so many people feel like they can't afford a house; not now, not ever. And it's not those living just above the poverty line. I have friends that had a failed business because of covid and had to restart after turning 50, and another that went through a divorce and is a single mom without support. Thankfully there are rental options that they can afford but those rates are quickly outpacing inflation too.

These people and others like them are becoming my 'why'.

Maybe that's an angle you can explore if you enjoy REI and aren't in it for the money?

I'm now toying with the idea of building small prefabs and ADUs. I think there's an opportunity on the for-profit side for people who can afford it but also a chance to understand how these could help with the housing shortages on the low income side that we currently have. It's like your tiny house community concept but a bit bigger footprint and not STR. Instead perhaps lease-to-own or purchases so everyone can take pride in being a home owner and build some equity.

The thing holding me back despite my motivation is that it would require a factory, perhaps not initially but it would be a long-term requirement for success. And I'm sure I don't have to explain to you how daunting that sounds.

Anyway, I hope you've found some purpose or new passion to give you more motivation over the past year, or at the very least more peace with 'lifting off the gas'.

If you ever do decide to offer a mentorship/coaching program again, as Zane and others have suggested, let me know. I'd be up for learning how to be successful in ecom, because factories aren't cheap to build.

 

[Gustav2005]

I've been thinking about this alot lately because I'm now at the point where I truly think that I have enough. But I'm not 100% certain yet. And it's also not as much as people may think. I know that is weird to say, but as you get older, you actually need less and less money. It's an odd place to be in, where your motivation for doing things ever since you were a teenager suddenly disappears.

I made this post in July 2020 (HOT TOPIC - How would you spend $1 million dollars and get no sellable value from it?). As you can see, this idea of spending money and having enough has been on my mind for a while now.

Then, someone recommended this book to me a month ago, (BOOK - Book discussion: Die With Zero) and it basically reinforced what I had already been thinking.

Getting back to how much is enough. That's a tough question. I'm going to be 50 this year and if I estimate that I'll live till 90, that's 40 more years of spending money. However, let's do some math here. If I had $4M, I could spend $100k a year. Many of you may think that $100k a year is not enough. However, if you factor in investments, real estate appreciating, rent increases, it's pretty clear that one could spend alot more than $100k a year and still have a substantial amount at age 90. So in reality, I could probably spend $150k a year on $4M. Now let's assume that I had $6M. Well now it's truly a no brainer. I mean $200k a year for the next 40 years with no living expense?

Now imagine if I continue to work 5 years. During this time I will increase my net worth and then have only 35 years to go. So now my yearly spend number increases to $250k-$300k? It's sort of going in the wrong direction. This is why I'm pondering all this right now. Just before I turn 50, and not 55 or 60.

So where is this going? Well, the funny thing is that alot of the things I have wanted to do was money motivated. And without the money part, I wonder if I still want to do them.

For example, I've always wanted to buy land and build tiny homes on them. Buy why did I want to do this? Well, the building part was cool and the finished product is cool too. But the last part is where you put them on Airbnb and make $200/night x 350 nights = $70,000. Multiply that by 5 tiny homes and you got $350,000/yr coming in. Again the dream was money based. What else would I do with them? Leave them empty? Sell them?

So I'm wondering if I should still but land and build Airbnb tiny homes, IF I don't care about what they can bring in. What is the purpose of this project then? Is it a hobby that I'd do regardless of monetary consequences? That's a question I haven't answered yet.

People tell me, you should buy bitcoin... but why?
You should buy XXX stock, but why?
You should buy real estate in XXX, but why?

Why should I if there is no money motivation?

This past week me and @snowbank went around Sedona looking at lots and new construction. I am trying to look at things without a money lens, but it is so hard. When you stand on a lot that is asking $300k. You look at the beautiful views. But then you ask, how much does it cost to build, how much does the next house over sell for? Then you do the calculations in your head. Hmmm, if I buy this and build this, it will be worth this and I can sell it for this. But should any of that really matter if you want a house of your dreams on this lot?

I guess I'm trying to get to the point where I don't make decisions based on money. And I don't mean I waste money. But the potential profits or future value of things really shouldn't come into play anymore, if I truly have enough net worth today.

I'm curious to know so I ask @MJ DeMarco, what is the purpose of your day trading? Is it a fun game you play? Is it something you do to keep your mind sharp? I assume that the day trading returns are a small percentage of your net worth/cash flow?

Interested to hear everyone's thoughts.

For me, it's never about seeing 10 million in my bank account but achieving freedom of any kind. I don't want to be forced to do anything, and automation and a monthly recurring income that makes it possible for me to do anything i desire, will do that for me. If you're interested in this you can read "the 4-hour work week".

 

[WJK]

For me, it's never about seeing 10 million in my bank account but achieving freedom of any kind. I don't want to be forced to do anything, and automation and a monthly recurring income that makes it possible for me to do anything i desire, will do that for me. If you're interested in this you can read "the 4-hour work week".

It is called financial independence. It means you can pay your bills and finance your life. You don't have to be rich to do that.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Robdavis]

I think I'll just post this here for completeness:

Meaningful Work... It's Not About The Money- Ep 334

In today's episode I discuss a permanent pivot. For the life of KKRS I have thrown an umbrella over the entire category of entrepreneurship and addressed ALL who considered themselves entrepreneurs even though I focused on enterprise building and visionary leadership of something bigger than...

www.spreaker.com

 

[biophase]

Another year passes... so it's time to check in with @biophase . How are you doing Kenric? How's the basketball court coming along?

I'm 48 and I admit that in terms of net worth, I'm not where you're at. I have enough that my wife and I can retire today if we wanted to. She is feeling like it's "enough", while I still want to contribute more, do more, learn more despite it no longer being purely about money. I say that just to preface that I am not in your position and am not pretending to be.

My fastlane has been in real estate (building, flipping, and buy & hold) so I get the appeal of REI. After working in this industry during some really good years, it's painful to see so many people feel like they can't afford a house; not now, not ever. And it's not those living just above the poverty line. I have friends that had a failed business because of covid and had to restart after turning 50, and another that went through a divorce and is a single mom without support. Thankfully there are rental options that they can afford but those rates are quickly outpacing inflation too.

These people and others like them are becoming my 'why'.

Maybe that's an angle you can explore if you enjoy REI and aren't in it for the money?

I'm now toying with the idea of building small prefabs and ADUs. I think there's an opportunity on the for-profit side for people who can afford it but also a chance to understand how these could help with the housing shortages on the low income side that we currently have. It's like your tiny house community concept but a bit bigger footprint and not STR. Instead perhaps lease-to-own or purchases so everyone can take pride in being a home owner and build some equity.

The thing holding me back despite my motivation is that it would require a factory, perhaps not initially but it would be a long-term requirement for success. And I'm sure I don't have to explain to you how daunting that sounds.

Anyway, I hope you've found some purpose or new passion to give you more motivation over the past year, or at the very least more peace with 'lifting off the gas'.

If you ever do decide to offer a mentorship/coaching program again, as Zane and others have suggested, let me know. I'd be up for learning how to be successful in ecom, because factories aren't cheap to build.

Sorry I somehow missed this post.

Yes, another year passes and I'm still kind of in the same place in terms of mentality. Financially, I'm better because as each year passes, you accumulate more money and you have one year less to spend it.

I still find it very hard to let go of the more money mindset. I'm just going to guess that even someone worth $100M, if they dropped to $99M they would feel kind of bad. I think this keeps us always wanting to hold onto to what we have and accumulate.

Regarding a new purpose, giving back is probably the most fulfilling thing that I do now. New toys or houses are just blah for me. The novelty wears off so quickly. I can feel myself changing because I spend more money on others than myself now. And sometimes it's hard to do, but I'm treating it like working out a muscle. The more I do, the easier it gets.

For example, I bought two rescue vehicles this year and spent around $40k. But I couldn't get myself to by myself a new car.

I think my venture into REI and fulfillment will be doing dog sanctuaries or dog rescue buildings. Many people purchase commercial buildings and then rent them to rescues at $1/year. I think this part is where I'm fighting with myself because I say to myself, if I had an extra $1M I would totally buy this building for a rescue. But then I step back and realize that I probably said this to myself 5 years ago and now I do have that additional $1M. I guess it's admitting to myself that I'm not ready to spend $1M and get no return for it. So maybe I don't really have "enough". But then I redo my calculations, and yes I do. So why I don't I do it and buy that $1M building?

There was a story of the secretary that passes away and then they find out she had accumulated over $10M in XXX company stock. She left all her inheritance to a charity. The media was praising her for donating $10M to a charity sayings that she's so unselfish and giving.

I remember reading an article rebutting this. It said, you aren't unselfish if you donate it all after you die because you couldn't use it anymore. It went on to say, that having $10M and not doing anything with it was worse than not having it at all. She could have donated $1M a year, for 10 years and started 10 years earlier. I don't know if you agree or disagree with that, but it certainly made me think. The dog that needs a surgery needs it now, not 10 years from now, not whenever it's convenient of me to donate it. So that's why I'm trying to train myself to start doing this earlier and earlier.




BTW, I've noticed that this topic is becoming more prevalent in podcasts. I must have listened to at least 3-4 people discuss this in the past 6 months. I think the initial wave of ecom/internet business owners are now getting to 45+ after years of making decent money and trying to figure out what's next.

When your wife says that you have enough, does she want you to change your lifestyle somehow? Is it because she wants to travel or do something? Or is it because she thinks you are working too hard?

Again, let me reiterate that this all doesn't mean I'm unhappy. I am super happy and very grateful to be in this position.

 

[WJK]

Sorry I somehow missed this post.

Yes, another year passes and I'm still kind of in the same place in terms of mentality. Financially, I'm better because as each year passes, you accumulate more money and you have one year less to spend it.

I still find it very hard to let go of the more money mindset. I'm just going to guess that even someone worth $100M, if they dropped to $99M they would feel kind of bad. I think this keeps us always wanting to hold onto to what we have and accumulate.

Regarding a new purpose, giving back is probably the most fulfilling thing that I do now. New toys or houses are just blah for me. The novelty wears off so quickly. I can feel myself changing because I spend more money on others than myself now. And sometimes it's hard to do, but I'm treating it like working out a muscle. The more I do, the easier it gets.

For example, I bought two rescue vehicles this year and spent around $40k. But I couldn't get myself to by myself a new car.

I think my venture into REI and fulfillment will be doing dog sanctuaries or dog rescue buildings. Many people purchase commercial buildings and then rent them to rescues at $1/year. I think this part is where I'm fighting with myself because I say to myself, if I had an extra $1M I would totally buy this building for a rescue. But then I step back and realize that I probably said this to myself 5 years ago and now I do have that additional $1M. I guess it's admitting to myself that I'm not ready to spend $1M and get no return for it. So maybe I don't really have "enough". But then I redo my calculations, and yes I do. So why I don't I do it and buy that $1M building?

There was a story of the secretary that passes away and then they find out she had accumulated over $10M in XXX company stock. She left all her inheritance to a charity. The media was praising her for donating $10M to a charity sayings that she's so unselfish and giving.

I remember reading an article rebutting this. It said, you aren't unselfish if you donate it all after you die because you couldn't use it anymore. It went on to say, that having $10M and not doing anything with it was worse than not having it at all. She could have donated $1M a year, for 10 years and started 10 years earlier. I don't know if you agree or disagree with that, but it certainly made me think. The dog that needs a surgery needs it now, not 10 years from now, not whenever it's convenient of me to donate it. So that's why I'm trying to train myself to start doing this earlier and earlier.


View attachment 47168

BTW, I've noticed that this topic is becoming more prevalent in podcasts. I must have listened to at least 3-4 people discuss this in the past 6 months. I think the initial wave of ecom/internet business owners are now getting to 45+ after years of making decent money and trying to figure out what's next.

When your wife says that you have enough, does she want you to change your lifestyle somehow? Is it because she wants to travel or do something? Or is it because she thinks you are working too hard?

Again, let me reiterate that this all doesn't mean I'm unhappy. I am super happy and very grateful to be in this position.

It comes down to -- What now? What is important now? I understand how you feel. You've "arrived" and it's a very flat, empty feeling. During your journey, you've milked all the happiness out of the actual destination moment. You're still the same person as you've been for all of these years. You still save every dime and turn over every rock to find that next stud-card deal. What? More of the same? When you figure out what is next, let me know...

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Kevin88660]

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=InU_gL8m__A

First to escape from financial bondage, then try escape from death.

 

[WJK]

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=InU_gL8m__A

First to escape from financial bondage, then try escape from death.

Breaking the financial bondage is doable. Most people I have observed make their fortune a couple of times. They lose it through silly behavior or no fault of their own. Then, on average, they get smarter and are able to keep that third try.

The biggest challenge to this process is the timing. You must have the time & strength to do it all again after suffering through the failure/loss stage.

If you must ask, the answer is yes. I have had some spectacular failures over the years. (I must be a slow learner because it has taken me more than 3 tries.) I've become good at climbing to the top of the mountain even though at times I've fallen off that sheer cliff face. My main takeaway is that climbing the next mountain is easier and faster. The failures taught me a lot about how to do better and manage the assets on the next trek.

Good luck with the death part. Morality is part of the life cycle -- or so I've come to accept. It is part of the human experience. I've seen people put off the grim reaper, but he always comes to call someday. He is an equal-opportunity guy. He doesn't care how much money you have, who your friends are, or what's on your to-do list.

 

[wanttogofaster]

The dog that needs a surgery needs it now, not 10 years from now, not whenever it's convenient of me to donate it. So that's why I'm trying to train myself to start doing this earlier and earlier.

This!

In the last few weeks, I've seen many posts on nextdoor.com about pet owners who cannot afford treatment for their pets.

Perhaps it is harder for you to find opportunities where you hang out, but they're definitely everywhere.

A while ago I read a book called "I like giving", it is a Christian book, but it gives so many ideas that it should not matter if you are a Christian or not.

From a previous post, I understand you'd rather find solutions to the problems than giving money away, but some things, like medical bills, are not ones you can find a solution for (for the most part at least). There are lots of go fund me campaigns for people that need all kinds of medical treatments.

Just a few of ideas to think about... good luck!

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[wanttogofaster]

Also, I don't know much about your business, or how many employees you have, but you could always give everyone a performance bonus, or learn more about what needs they have and find a way to help them out.

It could be set up so that they don't know that it was you or your company who helped them out.

Just a thought, because giving is great and it doesn't have to be far from home. As I just said in my previous posts, there are needs everywhere.

 

[wanttogofaster]

I think this part is where I'm fighting with myself because I say to myself, if I had an extra $1M I would totally buy this building for a rescue. But then I step back and realize that I probably said this to myself 5 years ago and now I do have that additional $1M. I guess it's admitting to myself that I'm not ready to spend $1M and get no return for it. So maybe I don't really have "enough". But then I redo my calculations, and yes I do. So why I don't I do it and buy that $1M building?

Sorry, I can go on and on... how about starting small? A $250K or whatever price building is available to start?
A big number is great, but if it's also causing you to think too much about it, then you have to adjust the number!

 

[Productocrazy]

I just wanted to say thank you for bringing up this topic and discussing it so intensely - I haven't seen it discussed in such honesty anywhere else. I am a person learning from reading and it helps me a lot to see what may be happening some steps ahead of my own journey. It also keeps me wondering if this something one can adjust for early on. I fear not, but I like the way how djmarco came up with actualizing ones purpose.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[WJK]

I just wanted to say thank you for bringing up this topic and discussing it so intensely - I haven't seen it discussed in such honesty anywhere else. I am a person learning from reading and it helps me a lot to see what may be happening some steps ahead of my own journey. It also keeps me wondering if this something one can adjust for early on. I fear not, but I like the way how djmarco came up with actualizing ones purpose.

You will find your own way.

At this moment I find it is the little things that can do for others that really count in my life. I do all of it under the radar. Only the people in my immediate circle know what I am doing. They only know because I'm getting them to help me in the execution of small acts of kindness.

For example, I have a tenant who is a disabled young woman raising 6 kids by herself. She has serious heart problems. Three of the kids are hers and the other 3 are her sister's abandoned kids. The young lady's budget is tighter than tight. So, this month I went out and bought sundries for her -- toilet paper, toothpaste, soap, shampoo, cleaning supplies, and other household things that get used up. I just showed up at her door with the back of my pickup truck filled with stuff that I know she needs and cannot afford. It costs about the same as a night for my husband and me to go out on the town. I'd rather have a quiet night at home in front of our fireplace and spend the money blessing this sweet woman and her kids. By the way, she sent the 6 kids over to shovel out my walks and driveway this week when we got another big snow. We all had a "snow party" in my driveway. Those kids are wonderful!

I try to do something nice for someone just about every day. It's the small acts of kindness that really shape and count in my life. I don't have to do anything big. I can pick up a prescription while I'm in town and pay for it when someone needs the meds. I can take someone a plate of home-cooked food. I can give someone a ride that they need. I can give someone a break when they are feeling really down. I can be kind and generous without it making a dent in my life or the greater world noticing. Now you know about my secret life!

 

[BizyDad]

Sorry I somehow missed this post.

Yes, another year passes and I'm still kind of in the same place in terms of mentality. Financially, I'm better because as each year passes, you accumulate more money and you have one year less to spend it.

I still find it very hard to let go of the more money mindset. I'm just going to guess that even someone worth $100M, if they dropped to $99M they would feel kind of bad. I think this keeps us always wanting to hold onto to what we have and accumulate.

Regarding a new purpose, giving back is probably the most fulfilling thing that I do now. New toys or houses are just blah for me. The novelty wears off so quickly. I can feel myself changing because I spend more money on others than myself now. And sometimes it's hard to do, but I'm treating it like working out a muscle. The more I do, the easier it gets.

For example, I bought two rescue vehicles this year and spent around $40k. But I couldn't get myself to by myself a new car.

I think my venture into REI and fulfillment will be doing dog sanctuaries or dog rescue buildings. Many people purchase commercial buildings and then rent them to rescues at $1/year. I think this part is where I'm fighting with myself because I say to myself, if I had an extra $1M I would totally buy this building for a rescue. But then I step back and realize that I probably said this to myself 5 years ago and now I do have that additional $1M. I guess it's admitting to myself that I'm not ready to spend $1M and get no return for it. So maybe I don't really have "enough". But then I redo my calculations, and yes I do. So why I don't I do it and buy that $1M building?

There was a story of the secretary that passes away and then they find out she had accumulated over $10M in XXX company stock. She left all her inheritance to a charity. The media was praising her for donating $10M to a charity sayings that she's so unselfish and giving.

I remember reading an article rebutting this. It said, you aren't unselfish if you donate it all after you die because you couldn't use it anymore. It went on to say, that having $10M and not doing anything with it was worse than not having it at all. She could have donated $1M a year, for 10 years and started 10 years earlier. I don't know if you agree or disagree with that, but it certainly made me think. The dog that needs a surgery needs it now, not 10 years from now, not whenever it's convenient of me to donate it. So that's why I'm trying to train myself to start doing this earlier and earlier.


View attachment 47168

BTW, I've noticed that this topic is becoming more prevalent in podcasts. I must have listened to at least 3-4 people discuss this in the past 6 months. I think the initial wave of ecom/internet business owners are now getting to 45+ after years of making decent money and trying to figure out what's next.

When your wife says that you have enough, does she want you to change your lifestyle somehow? Is it because she wants to travel or do something? Or is it because she thinks you are working too hard?

Again, let me reiterate that this all doesn't mean I'm unhappy. I am super happy and very grateful to be in this position.

Would it really be no return?

The building would presumably appreciate. If you ever needed it and you were down to your last million, you could sell the building.

And before you tell me that you wouldn't want to shut it down and ruin all these dogs' lives, I don't think you're accounting for all the dogs' lives you would help in the 10 years or 20 years that somebody would be renting that building for a dollar.

And what kind of value do you put on that? The dog's lives that get saved?

Shoot, going back to the YouTube channel idea it's the same thing. You won't give out 6 months of your knowledge because you're afraid of letting people down 6 months from now.

But maybe you will be helping a ton of people for many many years just because of these 6 months worth of knowledge you put out there.

Instead you choose not to take an action, thus not helping the people you could, because you are unwilling to commit to it into perpetuity.

But whoever said you had to commit anything into perpetuity?

 

[WJK]

Would it really be no return?

The building would presumably appreciate. If you ever needed it and you would down to your last million, you could sell the building.

And before you tell me that you wouldn't want to shut it down and ruin all these dogs' lives, I don't think you're counting for All the dogs' lives you would help in the 10 years or 20 years that somebody would be renting that building for a dollar.

And what kind of value do you put on that? The dog's lives that get saved?

Shoot, going back to the YouTube channel idea it's the same thing. You won't give out 6 months of your knowledge because you're afraid of letting people down 6 months from now.

But maybe you will be helping a ton of people for many many years just because of these 6 months worth of knowledge you put out there.

Instead you choose not to take an action, thus not helping the people you could, because you are unwilling to commit to it into perpetuity.

But whoever said you had to commit anything into perpetuity?

The question is -- what is enough? What is a long enough time period? I agree. It doesn't take a commitment in perpetuity to make a difference. Sometimes it only takes a moment or a short run to make a big difference. Who knows what it will mean in the long run?

Your passion seems to be helping animals. Renting the building you are considering can be a stepping stone toward that organization being able to move up to a bigger and/or more stable situation. Or you could rent the building to a vet who has your same passion. Part of his practice could be to do pro bono work for animals in need.

Or you could help to set up spot clinics or mobile care units. There are a lot of ways to make a difference.

What can you do that will have the maximum results for the minimum investment?

FYI -- One of the pet parents I know is currently getting financial help with having her rescue dog spayed. She could never afford that surgery without help. The organization that is helping her is a real blessing.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Walter Hay]

As a committed Christian who believes in heaven, even this is not enough to combat that feeling of meaninglessness. (It apparently wasn't for Solomon, either, in the book of Ecclesiastes.) For me, the only difference is that I think, "I just need to survive this existence until I get to die, and then the good times will finally start."

I too am a committed Christian, but I believe that the reward offered is life on a vastly changed earth.
The thrust of Solomon's writing in Ecclesiastes is that life without God is meaningless. In Chapter 3 he
emphasises that time is humanity's limiting factor.

Walter

 

[LateStarter]

Sorry I somehow missed this post.

Yes, another year passes and I'm still kind of in the same place in terms of mentality. Financially, I'm better because as each year passes, you accumulate more money and you have one year less to spend it.

I still find it very hard to let go of the more money mindset. I'm just going to guess that even someone worth $100M, if they dropped to $99M they would feel kind of bad. I think this keeps us always wanting to hold onto to what we have and accumulate.

Regarding a new purpose, giving back is probably the most fulfilling thing that I do now. New toys or houses are just blah for me. The novelty wears off so quickly. I can feel myself changing because I spend more money on others than myself now. And sometimes it's hard to do, but I'm treating it like working out a muscle. The more I do, the easier it gets.

For example, I bought two rescue vehicles this year and spent around $40k. But I couldn't get myself to by myself a new car.

I think my venture into REI and fulfillment will be doing dog sanctuaries or dog rescue buildings. Many people purchase commercial buildings and then rent them to rescues at $1/year. I think this part is where I'm fighting with myself because I say to myself, if I had an extra $1M I would totally buy this building for a rescue. But then I step back and realize that I probably said this to myself 5 years ago and now I do have that additional $1M. I guess it's admitting to myself that I'm not ready to spend $1M and get no return for it. So maybe I don't really have "enough". But then I redo my calculations, and yes I do. So why I don't I do it and buy that $1M building?

There was a story of the secretary that passes away and then they find out she had accumulated over $10M in XXX company stock. She left all her inheritance to a charity. The media was praising her for donating $10M to a charity sayings that she's so unselfish and giving.

I remember reading an article rebutting this. It said, you aren't unselfish if you donate it all after you die because you couldn't use it anymore. It went on to say, that having $10M and not doing anything with it was worse than not having it at all. She could have donated $1M a year, for 10 years and started 10 years earlier. I don't know if you agree or disagree with that, but it certainly made me think. The dog that needs a surgery needs it now, not 10 years from now, not whenever it's convenient of me to donate it. So that's why I'm trying to train myself to start doing this earlier and earlier.


View attachment 47168

BTW, I've noticed that this topic is becoming more prevalent in podcasts. I must have listened to at least 3-4 people discuss this in the past 6 months. I think the initial wave of ecom/internet business owners are now getting to 45+ after years of making decent money and trying to figure out what's next.

When your wife says that you have enough, does she want you to change your lifestyle somehow? Is it because she wants to travel or do something? Or is it because she thinks you are working too hard?

Again, let me reiterate that this all doesn't mean I'm unhappy. I am super happy and very grateful to be in this position.

Thanks for the reply. My wife says we have enough because she wants a more simple life. We're still highly involved in our businesses and she's tired of the stress, the backlog of work, and daunted by the idea of taking on another business. She's really looking forward to working less and enjoying life more, and so am I. But, we can't do that to the extent we want to until the kids have left the house. Staying in the same environment makes it hard to stop when you've been doing it for so long. I becomes a part of you and your identity.

For me, the hard part isn't thinking about the money. It's more about the project or opportunity. I've always been project focused and seeing something I know I could do well, or something someone else is doing poorly and knowing how it could be done better is what kills me (I'm an Engineer...what can I say). That's the hard part. It's not really about being competitive even, it's about seeing an opportunity and wanting it filled. But I guess there is a bit of a competitive side because when I see an opportunity that others don't, sometimes I think "They're not be capable of filling it! They didn't even see it in the first place!"

For example, I just responded to an INSIDERS post on an INE SaaS execution with IMO a flawed execution strategy. It pained me a bit to give away my thoughts on how to do it better; not because I don't want this person to succeed, but because the big picture problem was so glaringly obvious and a different approach would completely destroy his idea. It took me 2 days to commit to posting the reply, but I gave him everything including sample code. Even now I'm still thinking about another way to leverage that code into a different product. Would I pursue the opportunity? Probably not, but that's not the point, is it?

I agree that being philanthropic while you're alive is better than taking the money with you to the grave. Not just from a personal gratification standpoint, but to expedite the benefits to the charity. The example you shared is like a hoarding mentality. What are they saving it for if they're never going to use it? Their own security? It's a another form of scarcity mindset that doesn't benefit anyone. Put the money back in circulation and help others out.

Why the reluctance to buy yourself a new car? (Trying to pry into your psyche here, not your finances) Because you didn't feel like you really needed one? Because you know it wouldn't give you any 'fulfillment'?

I drive a 2019 used minivan. It's bare bones base-model with not a lot of options. I use it for reno work and hauling 4 kids and their stuff around. For me, it's better than a truck. I knew it was going to be abused and it has been. Can I afford a new car? Yep. Would I like a newer car? Yeah, maybe. Would I go and buy one before this dies? Probably not. Why not? I just think my money is better used elsewhere right now. I guess that frugality has just become engrained. If it's not a write off or a necessity, then I prioritize where I spend it.

I know you don't have kids, but I do and I don't want to leave a lot for them. I think it's for their own benefit. I didn't have a lot growing up so I appreciated what I had then, and what I was able to attain even more. I appreciated other people more and had sympathy for those who are struggling. I'm fortunate and think I have some pretty good kids, but even still I can see glimpses of what entitled little shits they can/could be. Their lives have been far too privileged and they've grown up in systems that don't allow them to fail. They need to struggle to grow. They need failure to understand success. I plan on giving each enough for a start. After than, they're on their own financially. Emotionally and intellectually they'll have unlimited support which should be enough for them to be successful.

Anyway, I appreciate the ongoing honesty and perspective. I'm not yet at the stage of feeling completely philanthropic, but I want to do work that is more impactful and beneficial to more people. Work that is less superficial and more meaningful to benefit their lives. I'm not sure how best to do that yet, and I haven't (yet) convinced my wife that we should do it either.

 

[biophase]

Why the reluctance to buy yourself a new car? (Trying to pry into your psyche here, not your finances) Because you didn't feel like you really needed one? Because you know it wouldn't give you any 'fulfillment'?

Yes, I think it is because of the NEED issue.

When I buy a car for a rescue, I just go to the dealer, pay asking price (because they won't budge). When I buy a car for myself, I won't pay asking price. I think it is because the rescue NEEDS the car and they NEED it right away. So it may cost me an extra $500-$1000 to have it today and be done with it. But for my personal car, I don't NEED a new car, so I won't pay what they want. This cycle has been going on for 5 months LOL. Still waiting for new car prices to come down.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[AnneC]

I have a similar riff on this theme.

I'm not "there" yet, but I'm making a ton of money. Well, to me, anyways. So, I could theoretically be "there" in a few more years.

For me, my personal riff on your question is: How do I evaluate what is acceptable to spend money on, now that money is not an issue. And where's the invisible line? $1k vet bill the other week? No problem, anything for the dog. $500 for two show tickets? Worth it if it's Adele. Not so much if it's Absinthe, but fine if it's with friends. What if it's $1,000? Or $1M for one-third of a baller house? Where's the line between "okay to spend money on" and "costs too much?" How do you measure the value of money?

The problem is that it's entirely subjective. A $250 sushi omakase meal might be worth it to me, but not to you.

I think this is the primary issue with what you're going through. It all boils down to "Know Thyself." And everyone is different.

Reading through the responses here, a few things jump out at me, that I've observed (as an Enneagram Type 5) for a while.

The first is that there are clearly a group of people that are "stick motivated." I'm one of those. I had to make $X or get a job and lose my freedom. That was enough for me to keep going and figure it out. All of these suggestions to get uncomfortable are probably coming from stick wielders, and not that particularly useful for you. Personally, I have never been motivated by carrots. My mindset: I have a bunch of money now, I guess I should park it somewhere.

You, on the other hand, are very clearly a "carrot" person. Your carrots have always been things, and the way to get those things have been through making money. What if your next carrot is not a thing? Could you ask more quality questions to determine what that carrot might be? If the carrot is "Rescue 1 million dogs," then the question becomes "How do I save more dogs?" Neuter/Spay more dogs. Hold an annual convention for rescues. Teach rescues how to fundraise. Lease cars to rescues. Partner with a rental company to buy back old vans. Build a dog transport network. An official M&N rescue membership (like a certification)... a real community, with transport posts or calls for help.

And about your resistance of working on this next project... We're clear that you're not the one who has to start this new venture (business, non-profit, etc.). What's holding you back? Hiring? Managing? Money? You didn't need money or anyone to oversee those volunteers to help pack your donation boxes. That was finding the solution when you were asking the right questions. So... ask better questions. And when the carrot is big enough TO YOU, you'll find a way.

The other thing has to with finding your true identity. Not from your logical brain. You, as a spiritual being. Who are you? What do you enjoy doing? What are you here to do? If you get still, what is the Universe pulling you towards? The answers to these types of questions become more philosophical or religious. They can be harder to answer when you don't have kids. And quite honestly, I think you might struggle with this because I know you've TRIED to communicate with the spiritual side. But maybe you're not wired that way or have never given it much weight. Things can change. I found spirituality in my 30s, and it made a huge difference. I talked about this with snowbank when I dropped him off at the airport. I'm currently taking that woo-woo dream building class to get more personal clarity.

Some other random notes, before I forget: 1) Is it negative EV if you don't buy that dog real estate property? Especially with 80% bonus depreciation this year. And then M can have a place for training. 2) Maybe learning about your Enneagram type can help you on your path of self-discovery. I have a pretty good hunch of what yours is 3) Watching 4Runner prices seems like a waste of energy to me 4) Maybe you should buy #4, if that is your dream

 

[biophase]

Last night my friend and I went to see the Suns playoff game. We got courtside seats, row 3. This was both of our first times being courtside. So like going to any event, we walk in and we proceed to our seats. My friend is asking, do you want to get food before we get to our seats. Little did we know...

We get to our seats and we don't have our wristbands, so we walk back up the tunnel to get them and the lady says, the Ultra Club is just behind your seats. Umm ok. We walk into the Ultra club and it basically looks like a buffet restaurant. But there is no cashier. So we are wondering, is all this free? And yes it was, even the alcohol is free!

I'm so glad we didn't get food before we sat down!

So below is us getting our steak and tacos. They had every kind of food there, pizza, sandwiches, pasta, desserts, ice cream, snacks, etc...


They even had clams, mussels, crabs and lobster!



I cannot stress how big of a game changer this was. I was able to go use the bathroom during timeouts and make it back to the seat before the game restarted. Whenever I wanted a snack, I just walked around 50 feet from my seat and just grabbed a Coke and a cookie. It was like being at home walking to the kitchen during any game stoppage. Then during half time instead of sitting in our seats, we just sat at a table in the club and munched on food.

In this photo you can see how close the court and this club was. For reference the two people standing in the tunnel about 10 feet behind our seats in the third row!



So why I am posting this here? Well it's because of this conversation we had with a couple sitting next to us in this buffet.

The lady was telling us that they have season tickets and that she doesn't even cook dinner because they just come here just eat 40 times a year. Imagine you're like, what should we do for dinner. I don't know, is there a game tonight? Let's just go to the game and eat.

That is some FU money. It was kind of motivating for me!

Also as an FYI, rows 3 and 2 courtside and basically the same. Row 1 is exponentially better. That's my next goal.