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What's your motivation to do things if you don't need to make money.

MJ DeMarco

I followed the science; all I found was money.
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Last night my friend and I went to see the Suns playoff game. We got courtside seats, row 3. This was both of our first times being courtside. So like going to any event, we walk in and we proceed to our seats. My friend is asking, do you want to get food before we get to our seats. Little did we know...

We get to our seats and we don't have our wristbands, so we walk back up the tunnel to get them and the lady says, the Ultra Club is just behind your seats. Umm ok. We walk into the Ultra club and it basically looks like a buffet restaurant. But there is no cashier. So we are wondering, is all this free? And yes it was, even the alcohol is free!

I'm so glad we didn't get food before we sat down!

So below is us getting our steak and tacos. They had every kind of food there, pizza, sandwiches, pasta, desserts, ice cream, snacks, etc...
View attachment 48679

They even had clams, mussels, crabs and lobster!

View attachment 48681

I cannot stress how big of a game changer this was. I was able to go use the bathroom during timeouts and make it back to the seat before the game restarted. Whenever I wanted a snack, I just walked around 50 feet from my seat and just grabbed a Coke and a cookie. It was like being at home walking to the kitchen during any game stoppage. Then during half time instead of sitting in our seats, we just sat at a table in the club and munched on food.

In this photo you can see how close the court and this club was. For reference the two people standing in the tunnel about 10 feet behind our seats in the third row!

View attachment 48680

So why I am posting this here? Well it's because of this conversation we had with a couple sitting next to us in this buffet.

The lady was telling us that they have season tickets and that she doesn't even cook dinner because they just come here just eat 40 times a year. Imagine you're like, what should we do for dinner. I don't know, is there a game tonight? Let's just go to the game and eat.

That is some FU money. It was kind of motivating for me!

Also as an FYI, rows 3 and 2 courtside and basically the same. Row 1 is exponentially better. That's my next goal.

Once you go courtside, there's no going back to the nosebleeds.

I had courtside seats this year when Phoenix visited Utah, as well as an earlier Utah game. The wife and I were sitting next to Phoenix's assistant coach (dont know his name) and we could hear the players talk, in the huddle; it was like we were with the team traveling. The wife even got some fist bumps from Bizzy Biyombo. I think the tickets cost nearly $1.5K, but it was worth every penny.

These types of experiences were bought by money and it was more evidence that anyone who says, "money doesn't buy happiness" is either full of shit, or a broke loser who has given up.

Private entrance, private dinner, private bathroom, what's not to like? Don't be misled by the mediocrity gurus selling you a pile of shit; abstinence, settling for less, demand less, etc.

Have you ever flown by private jet?

While I don't travel a lot, that's my next experience. I imagine it is Courtside Seats X 10.
 
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Kevin88660

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I have never met anyone in real life telling me or others that “money is not important” or “money cannot buy happiness”.

At most it has been remarks like “life is not all about money”, “money doesn’t buy happiness when it reaches a point”….heard that plenty of times.

I have never met anyone who seriously thinks “money is not important” literally.
 

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Once you go courtside, there's no going back to the nosebleeds.

I had courtside seats this year when Phoenix visited Utah, as well as an earlier Utah game. The wife and I were sitting next to Phoenix's assistant coach (dont know his name) and we could hear the players talk, in the huddle; it was like we were with the team traveling. The wife even got some fist bumps from Bizzy Biyombo. I think the tickets cost nearly $1.5K, but it was worth every penny.

These types of experiences were bought by money and it was more evidence that anyone who says, "money doesn't buy happiness" is either full of shit, or a broke loser who has given up.

Private entrance, private dinner, private bathroom, what's not to like? Don't be misled by the mediocrity gurus selling you a pile of shit; abstinence, settling for less, demand less, etc.

Have you ever flown by private jet?

While I don't travel a lot, that's my next experience. I imagine it is Courtside Seats X 10.
I've flown private was, but it was for work. So it was a company private jet. But yes, the experience was next level.

Because I lived by the small airport, my flight was at 8am. I left my house at 7:45am, parked my car in the parking lot and walked straight onto the jet. We landed around 9am (flew Chicago to Cedar Rapids IA) and got to the corporate HQ by 9:15am. This trip was shorter than my drive into downtown Chicago. Left the office at 4pm, was home by 5:30pm that day. No wonder the execs all like private!

Private is also my next step up. But it's mostly because I have a dog that I bring with me. I'm about to do the 1800 mile 3 day drive to Chicago with my pup next week. Or I could spend $10k and be there in 3 hours which I just can't get myself to do to yet. I'm sure I'll be there in a few years.
 

biophase

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Interesting thing is that the first comment on that video is somebody that I know that sold his business two years ago.

I need to give him a call because I see he is going through the same issues as I am.
Well my friend did a podcast about what he's been doing the past 2 years. This is a really good podcast on this subject.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bESFPPOj7kY
 
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Oso

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Interesting topic.

I will outright say I don't care about money at all. I recognize it as a necessity of life, and I recognize the more I have, the higher quality of life I'll have. That said, even nowadays, when I get "screwed out of money," I tend to just shrug and keep it moving.

Does it suck? Yup. Doesn't matter if it's 20$ or 20,000$. That's still food out of my child's mouth. But realistically, unless I'm going to go after them legally or personally, crying over lost money is useless. Money comes and goes. This mentality essentially boils back to the whole "we only care about money because someone that came before us created the idea." "Money" is nothing more than another script; a way to keep us enslaved to a broken system.

"Money" is irrelevant because "money" can be replaced with anything. Hell, theoretically, we could morph the entire world into prison via having every country use cigarettes as "money." Or you could throw the planet into the dark ages via using goats and horses as our only form of "money." It's all the same shit.

I took a chick to see Bad Bunny a couple of years ago. I paid just under 4k for the tickets alone. I understood MAYBE 10% of what was said. It was still one of the best nights of my life. Fast forward to now, he's playing in Chicago in March, and guess what I did? Dropped another X,XXX on a few tickets for me and these two women I'm taking. I'm now fluent in Spanish. For New Years 2023-2024, I flew out to Vegas with a friend for the Post Malone show.

I recognize the only reason I've been able to experience these things and make these memories is money. But if I'm being completely transparent here, I can take or leave those memories/experiences. My life wouldn't be any different had I not done those things, despite the fact I consider the Bad Bunny night one of the "best nights of my life." I can still take it or leave it.

Back to the original question: realistically, when/if I hit the net worth of MJ, bio, or some of the other members, I'd probably start a private "shark tank" style thing. P2P lending is an area that still needs massive improvement, and despite the fact most adults are trash, there are people in this world with good ideas who have genuinely good intentions.

Otherwise, I'd probably just turn into the "Wish" version of Mr. Beast, and drive around in a Viper, handing out stacks of money. I really love Vipers.

Cheers.
 

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Back to the original question: realistically, when/if I hit the net worth of MJ, bio, or some of the other members, I'd probably start a private "shark tank" style thing. P2P lending is an area that still needs massive improvement, and despite the fact most adults are trash, there are people in this world with good ideas who have genuinely good intentions.

I've been fortunate to hit some great numbers over a decent career lifespan and every time my idea of what that level is rose higher.

Little examples: there was a time when I wished I could eat out anytime I wanted... early days money was tight. Then after being able to eat at any restaurant as much or as often as I wanted, I wanted to have the time freedom to cook at home. That got boring fast and I was missing the deal action at the business level.

Then, there was a time when cars were super exciting. I have a deposit on two very luxury cars now and am contemplating if it would add joy when I take possession. But the idea of 10x my business give me the phantom joy instantly! It hasn't happened yet, but the excitement I feel from it is hard to overstate.

So I know that once I achieve another 10x, there will be another after as a goal.

The point of this ramble is to know yourself. We are all wired differently. Each of us enjoys different things. Lean into what you enjoy and make sure you have enough of THAT.

I imagine @Kak never ever contemplating a "retirement" as he'd die inside if he stopped. Yet, I think @MTF is in his element the most when he's in a "retirement" mode, living an untethered life full of travel etc.

Most people want a lot of money and getting to a point when it doesn't matter if you have another $1M or $10M in your bank. Yet it's not the money we really crave, it's what we do with it. Right? So I agree with your post in that sense @Oso - it's not important for its own sake. But for those who need a private island and a jet as their objective, the road to that "freedom" is a little longer than those who want to chill in Mexico at an all inclusive resort.

:)
Knowing yourself is key. This thread shouldn't about anything other than being true to oneself and living a good life that is consistent with who you are.
 

Oso

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I've been fortunate to hit some great numbers over a decent career lifespan and every time my idea of what that level is rose higher.

Little examples: there was a time when I wished I could eat out anytime I wanted... early days money was tight. Then after being able to eat at any restaurant as much or as often as I wanted, I wanted to have the time freedom to cook at home. That got boring fast and I was missing the deal action at the business level.

Then, there was a time when cars were super exciting. I have a deposit on two very luxury cars now and am contemplating if it would add joy when I take possession. But the idea of 10x my business give me the phantom joy instantly! It hasn't happened yet, but the excitement I feel from it is hard to overstate.

So I know that once I achieve another 10x, there will be another after as a goal.

The point of this ramble is to know yourself. We are all wired differently. Each of us enjoys different things. Lean into what you enjoy and make sure you have enough of THAT.

I imagine @Kak never ever contemplating a "retirement" as he'd die inside if he stopped. Yet, I think @MTF is in his element the most when he's in a "retirement" mode, living an untethered life full of travel etc.

Most people want a lot of money and getting to a point when it doesn't matter if you have another $1M or $10M in your bank. Yet it's not the money we really crave, it's what we do with it. Right? So I agree with your post in that sense @Oso - it's not important for its own sake. But for those who need a private island and a jet as their objective, the road to that "freedom" is a little longer than those who want to chill in Mexico at an all inclusive resort.

:)
Knowing yourself is key. This thread shouldn't about anything other than being true to oneself and living a good life that is consistent with who you are.
Good sir, we may have started off on rocky roads, but you already know you're one of the few members of this forum I genuinely respect and admire. That said, I couldn't agree more: knowing yourself is key to everything in life.

Ultimately, while I personally don't care about the money itself, you are correct in that I want my net worth to be the highest ever recorded in human history... For no other reason than to have the ability to dramatically morph lives and do it on a scale never seen. Because that's what's important to me.

I will never deny the fact I can be a ruthless, cold-hearted twat. But beneath that 5% of my personality lies a normal dude that's sick of seeing the world suffer, and is committed to doing everything he can in hopes of alleviating some of it. Even if that suffering returns to normal the instant said man leaves this plane of existence.

P.S. Through our discussions, I know you and I share similar beliefs in regards to the whole "people begging for handouts" stuff. That said, have you considered maybe getting rid of the deposits on the luxury cars, buying a handful of drivable, sub ~10k cars, and doing some type of "drawing" or outreach within your local community to gift them to those in need? You could even throw in some "sponsored by <Antifragile's company>" copy. Perhaps it's a little too gimmicky for you, but this type of marketing seems to do well for people such as Mr. Beast, Hormozi, etc. Perhaps it'd aid in your goal of 10x your business. Just throwing that out there.

Cheers.
 
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Antifragile

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Thank you for your kind words!

That said, have you considered maybe getting rid of the deposits on the luxury cars, buying a handful of drivable, sub ~10k cars, and doing some type of "drawing" or outreach within your local community to gift them to those in need? You could even throw in some "sponsored by <Antifragile's company>" copy. Perhaps it's a little too gimmicky for you, but this type of marketing seems to do well for people such as Mr. Beast, Hormozi, etc. Perhaps it'd aid in your goal of 10x your business. Just throwing that out there.

I am terrible at such self-promotion, maybe because it's not aligned with who I am. Recently we were fortunate to be able to give away multiple 5 figure donations to charities. But all of that was done without any public recognition.

A while ago I read "Titan: The Life of John D. Rockefeller", Sr. by Ron Chernow - a book that explores the life and times of the enigmatic John D. Rockefeller, the man who built an oil empire and became one of the most influential figures in American history.

What stood out to me was not his wealth (that's a given!), but his anonymous donations: Throughout his life, Rockefeller made numerous anonymous donations to various causes, including hospitals. He believed in giving back to society and did so without seeking any recognition or fame.

Growing a business is about finding ways to provide more value to your stakeholders: investors, employees, customers and in our case, community as a whole. Hopefully I am good enough to pull it off that way.
 

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I know you and I share similar beliefs in regards to the whole "people begging for handouts" stuff.
I'm very curious about this. In my personal experience the most malicious thing you can do to an ambitious individual is give them free handouts, it weakens them, and if the charity continues it turns them mediocre. Like the adage of the man and the fish. I have seen it happen too many times in my own life.
 
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WJK

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I'm very curious about this. In my personal experience the most malicious thing you can do to an ambitious individual is give them free handouts, it weakens them, and if the charity continues it turns them mediocre. Like the adage of the man and the fish. I have seen it happen too many times in my own life.
It depends on you. It's all in how you do the giving.

If you give to a person who feels that they don't deserve your gift, they will hate you for it and they will hate your gift. They will return your favor with anger and destroy the gift.

If you give too large of a gift to a person who can never hope to repay you, you put them into a mental bondage. Resoprosicity is one of the basic human natures. Little kids are built with the scales of justice imprinted on their souls. You hear them saying, "That's not fair!". The human experience is measured and weighed by finding that balance point.

Knowing that truism, when I do someone a favor, I tell them that they owe me a favor in the future. Asking for the future act allows them to save face and maintain their dignity. I have a steady stream of people who line up to help me.

Today I helped a couple who are getting a divorce. She filed on him last week along with a protective order. He can't go back to his house -- which is one of my rentals. She had his dog and she was afraid to see him. So she brought the dog to me and I had the husband come get the dog. Yesterday he came in and was almost crying. Today she cried on my shoulder. I'm not on either side, but I do understand each other's issues. Giving has many forms past money.
 
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Great question. I appreciate you posting about it as this topic has been on my mind for a long time.

And just to be clear, I'm dealing with the same problem. I'm not judging you at all in this post.

Also, I apologize if my post is a little scatterbrained as it's a big topic to tackle and I'm still developing an understanding of it.

First, I wanted to quote Michael A. Singer:

Why would I get out of bed if I'm already happy? Because love wants to express itself. Enthusiasm wants to create and do something. Now you're not acting out of need, pain, problems. You're acting out of joy, beauty. You're driven by a whole another choice.

According to him, this state can be achieved only if we let go of all preferences (if we surrender). If the world needs to unfold according to your likes/dislikes, then you'll be busy manipulating the world and never actually interacting with it as it is. It'll be all self-serving, not serving the world as it is.

For example, imagine you pass a homeless person and give them money. They don't even acknowledge you. Next time you pass a homeless person, will you still give them money or decide it's not worth it? If it's the latter, it means you're giving money as a transaction ("here's 5 bucks, now make me feel good I helped you"). You're not acting out of your higher self (love/joy/enthusiasm/contribution) but out of your lower self (expecting the homeless person to make you feel better which is manipulative and disrespectful).

One of the fundamental concepts of what Michael A. Singer is teaching is letting go of your preferences (likes/dislikes, wants/things you want to avoid) which are built when you create patterns called "samskaras". These samskaras are created when you can't handle the situation unfolding in front of you. For example (another quote):

I'm driving behind a car that's driving slow. My mind is noticing and causing me a hard time. What good is that? The answer is: zero. You're getting aggravated, uptight, you're not enjoying your drive, you're being negative about the person in front of you, etc. In three weeks when you see a similar car you'll avoid it again. You created a samskara. Then you see the person of a certain gender, age, race, and you create a prejudice. You just made the situation make you worse. How about we use this moment as a learning experience? As a trial? I'm gonna use this experience to not do this. I'm going to use this experience to let go of whatever is inside of me that's causing my mind to think like that.

So in this example you can condition yourself to feel anger each time you see, say, a red convertible because THESE DICKHEADS ALWAYS CUT ME OFF. Based on what happened in the past, now you avoid every red convertible and hate every owner of such a car. You create a new reality in which every red convertible is out to get you.

I don't want to go too deep into it as I'm nearing 100 pages of notes of Singer's teachings. It all relates to each other, explaining all the concepts in great detail. But the example above is a good simple explanation of creating patterns and how they affect our life.

In your case, you're conditioned to enjoy the act of creation (in the area of business/investments) only if it stimulates the stuff you've stored inside you, namely, making money.

You created a pattern in which you want to act only if you can get something specific back. If you couldn't make money on your Airbnb tiny homes idea, you don't want to do it. You made it conditional. You live in a reality in which it makes sense to contribute only if you can make money, even if you don't need it. In other words, you're only happy to create something if the world unfolds according to your preferences.

I have no idea when and how you created this conditioning, but for me it was probably out of growing up in a relatively poor household with a lot of uncertainty. As a kid, I couldn't handle it. I saw my parents struggling financially and I decided that the only reason to do anything is to make money as this solves the most pressing problems. This is why I still crave security which I believe money will give me. Note that it doesn't matter how much money you make. Because of this stored pattern from childhood you ALWAYS need more. The solution isn't the outer world, but changing the inner world (letting go of this pattern).

Michael A. Singer prescribes noticing this resistance and letting it go. It's good that you're asking yourself this question because you're becoming aware that something doesn't make sense here. If you can observe this urge and not let it dictate your life, you can start freeing yourself of it.

In the example of the red convertible, each time you now see one and start feeling angry, you observe the feeling but don't act on it. Eventually, you'll retrain yourself and start seeing red convertibles as something neutral, in the same way, as, say, white SUVs are to you now.

So coming back to that first quote, if you get rid of your patterns, you're going to act out of love, contribution and enthusiasm, without any expectations or conditions. You want to act on your Airbnb tiny homes idea because it'll be fun and it'll contribute positively to other people. You DON'T do it under the condition that it makes x amount of money. You start serving the world which is infinitely more satisfying than trying to get something out of it.

I like to compare it to being in a relationship. If you feel lonely single, you CAN'T have a good relationship. The reason is that you'll look for another person (the outer world) to solve a problem you have inside (feeling lonely). The relationship you'll have, no matter how great it'll make you feel initially, is NOT the solution because it'll be conditional ("as long as you make me feel not lonely, I enjoy the relationship").

One more quote:

I'm looking for something or looking to avoid something - then I can't interact with you. I'm interacting with me. My consciousness is buried in me. And I'm going to look at you in relation to me. Are you giving me what I want? Are you being the way I want? Are you making sure you're not giving me what I don't want?

While you have it inside of you (the blockages), you cannot be you. You have to be it. It's owning you.

The spiritual path is about liberation. You free yourself from these patterns inside of you, therefore you free yourself to be okay. You free yourself to be open all the time. You free yourself to enjoy the moment that's unfolding in front of you instead of defining the moment that has to be unfolding in front of you for you to enjoy it.


This is what essentially we're dealing with now when we look at business. We're owned by the pattern that a business needs to give us x money back, even if we no longer need it. We aren't free to just do what is fun and would contribute to the world. We're prisoners to our own conditioning.

So what's the solution? The solution is to let go of this pattern. Obviously this is easier said than done. We've spent our entire lives conditioned to believe that business needs to be all about money. But look at guys like Elon Musk or Richard Branson. I'd venture to say that neither of them create new businesses to get anything out of it.

Elon Musk wants to solve big problems (you can argue he's in it for the challenge but I think he just wants to contribute) and Richard Branson starts new businesses when he sees industries where customer experience sucks (so he's all about creating a positive change).

I read biographies of both of these guys and what's interesting is that neither of them, even when they were young, seemed to be motivated by money. They were both in it for pretty much the same reasons they are today. So perhaps they didn't build patterns around this specific area of life?

So I think that a good exercise is to be aware and let go each time you feel resistance to the idea of building something without getting a (determined by you) amount of money from it. Slowly, you can get rid of this blockage and start acting out of pure motives rather than have a transactional approach.

And maybe you'll discover you don't want to do it anymore—and that's fine as well. Nobody says you have to keep building businesses or investing just because you've been doing it all your life.

As an everyday example of how to let go, I was recently in a barbershop with some incredible art on the walls. I asked the owner about it and it turned out she actually created the pieces. I was blown away. This was SPECTACULAR work.

In my head, I was like "Why the hell are you working in a barbershop if you have such a talent? Why don't you become a professional artist?" But I didn't tell her that. It was my problem, based on the patterns I have.

For her, art is something fun she often does with her friends. She told me they meet up every week and just chill out as they create art. I still find it hard to believe that people do this just for fun, without any expectation or financial motives. But this is a great example of how everyone can teach us something. She approaches art from a very pure place. She doesn't have any patterns stored related to art.

Meanwhile, I don't want to write any more books if I can't make money off them. And to be honest, I would do very little creative work without proper compensation. And here we're back to the work of letting go. Until I fully let go of it, I'll continue looking at the world in a distorted, self-serving, and ultimately not really satisfying way - all because of what I have stored in my head.

This is why I'm retired at the moment. I don't think it's a good idea to keep investing money, time, and effort into something I delude myself will give me something I should find in myself.
This advice is heckin life changing!
 

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