The Worldwide C0VlD-19 Coronavirus Pandemic Discussion Thread...

[hellolin]

Do you live in the US?

Stomping free speech and the right to gather is not a state right. Go read the First and Tenth Amendments.

Jesus, you are like the second person on this forum that assumes me living outside the US, lol.

I have probably been on more US aircraft carriers severing in the world interests of the US more than the countries you and many others here has been to.

Money > laws in a lot times here during my time here as a new immigrant. Stomping free speech and the right to gather is pretty common thing I see here, as long as the heretical isn't fitting with whatever the peer pressure is.

It's ok, I know what goes on as normal in California isn't for everyone, that's fine, that's why we got another 49 states. This is not to say that I will forever enjoy this, but for now, this thing doesn't matter to me. What I see is if the overall economy of the states, the relative standing of our economy will be impacted or not.

Don't like it? Don't live here, case closed.

 

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[Thoelt53]

Jesus, you are like the second person on this forum that assumes me living outside the US, lol.

I have probably been on more US aircraft carriers severing in the world interests of the US more than the countries you and many others here has been to.

Money > laws in a lot times here during my time here as a new immigrant. Stomping free speech and the right to gather is pretty common thing I see here, as long as the heretical isn't fitting with whatever the peer pressure is.

It's ok, I know what goes on as normal in California isn't for everyone, that's fine, that's why we got another 49 states. This is not to say that I will forever enjoy this, but for now, this thing doesn't matter to me. What I see is if the overall economy of the states, the relative standing of our economy will be impacted or not.

Don't like it? Don't live here, case closed.

Strawman. Second, I didn’t assume shit. I asked you a question because I was unsure.

Take a seat.

 

[Envision]

Wah I have to sit at home on my couch for 2 weeks!

it's not fair!

This just in, the government can do way worse shit to you. Like, you know.... the draft. Our grandparents were literally snatched out of their homes and sent to go stomp the beaches of Normandy in one of the bloodiest battles in human history and Millenials whine that they had in order to help their country they had to sit at home for two weeks (which by the way members of the Greatest Generation ALSO had to freakin do)

If You Think Quarantine Life Is Weird Today, Try Living It in 1918

From atomizer crazes to stranded actor troupes to school by phone, daily life during the flu pandemic was a trip.

slate.com

and I bet they still didn't wine 10% as much.. despite not having Netflix and Xbox and literally the entire world at their fingertips

Seriously, this generation are the biggest wet noodles.

My rights! My rights! I have rights! You're in my safe space! Don't call me that gender!

Our grandparents were asked to topple the third reich, and grown men can't even sit in their cushy technology-infested wonderlands for more than two weeks without kicking the door like kids do when they're mad.

Christ almighty. Millenials are such whiny little milksobs.

It's like Jordan Peterson. All these kids care about is their endless buffet of rights

View: https://youtu.be/Nyw4rTywyY0?t=4582

Reading all your responses in this thread you’d think if someone were living in your head all they would be hearing is screams and ambulance sirens.

You’re comparing a world war that the US stayed out of for years to a virus that has killed 185k people worldwide in 5 months since its inception. Let’s round it up to 500k to pad any argument you have about the severity of this virus. For context about 110k people die everyday on this planet. 2 million will die from being too fat this year in America.

The models our governments used to project everything were completely wrong. Which is fine, it’s better to overreact than under react with a pandemic like this. But at this point we know the death rate isn’t what it was, there is not going to be a vaccine for 1-2 years and the best thing the government can do is actually test everyone, release restrictions and protect public health through the system they have. Not impose restrictions on systems they cannot control.

You’re arguments about public health ignore the economic, social, and mental heath issues that are inevitable and will be way worse than this virus. For clarity; I’m not downplaying the virus. But as it stands more people will starve, commit suicide, lose everything, abuse their family members, create social unrest, and suffer in countless other ways as a ripple effect from what the government has done.

And if you’d actually ever built a company and poured your blood sweat and tears into it you’d probably sympathize with the millions of business owners that are losing and will lose everything because the government deemed them non essential while they all continue to get paid with the very tax dollars of the business owners they shut down.

 

[Andreas Thiel]

Btw. ... I read an article about the A, B and C types of the new Corona virus.
A while ago an article said that the prevalence of the original (type A) in Guangdong compared to Wuhan implicated that the origin might not be Wuhan.

Right now I mostly find articles that link Type A to Wuhan. Anybody else following that?

 

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[Intax]

Back to actual news and data over another debate that unfortunately won't solve anything...

Swedish health agency says virus has peaked in Stockholm, no easing of restrictions yet

Around one-third of Stockholm's 1 million people will have had the novel coronavirus by the start of May and the disease may have already passed its peak in the capital, Sweden's public health agency said on Tuesday.

www.reuters.com

It's based on a model, though:



At the moment there are about 6,200 cases in Stockholm. Yesterday there were 60 new confirmed cases in the city meaning that by May 1, Stockholm (assuming that the peak was indeed reached) shouldn't have more than perhaps another 600 cases, or 6,800 in total. This means that—again, according to the model, which is not perfect data—the real number of cases might be up to 49x higher. This also reduces the mortality rate in the city (not the entire country) to around 0.5-0.6%.

It needs to be emphasized, though, that Sweden's epidemiologist Anders Tegnell explained that they failed to protect the most vulnerable enough as Sweden's higher death rate was mostly caused by outbreaks in care homes for older people.

Also, curiously, according to this article, many countries in Europe and in the United States are mostly recording C0VlD-19 deaths from hospitals, and don't include deaths from nursing homes or other long-term care facilities. In Sweden, however, deaths from the coronavirus at nursing homes are counted toward the official tally of how many have died from the disease.

@MTF keep those great ressources coming! I learn a lot from the links many people share in this thread.

Thanks for all the information in this thread

 

[Vigilante]

On a positive note ya’all have inspired me to read Atlas Shrugged again.
History is already starting to reveal the collective got nearly all aspects of this wrong.

 

[David Harrison]

I remember years ago I got stopped by the uniformed forces of good.
They asked me if I knew why they'd stopped me.
I said I'm guessing it's because I haven't strapped my seatbelt on. (the year was 1998)
He carried on explaining the virtues of said act etc. (in my mind I was saying, just leave me alone, I haven't done anything wrong)

Note: When you avoid putting a bet on, and it comes in, do you lose money or not?

The point being.
Folk can get you to believe if you refrain from acting out your own life, you could save lives. (hypothetical living). Where does it end?

Prevention is better than a CURE!
Hmm...

 

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[Vigilante]

I remember years ago I got stopped by the uniformed forces of good.
They asked me if I knew why they'd stopped me.
I said I'm guessing it's because I haven't strapped my seatbelt on. (the year was 1998)
He carried on explaining the virtues of said act etc. (in my mind I was saying, just leave me alone, I haven't done anything wrong)

Note: When you avoid putting a bet on, and it comes in, do you lose money or not?

The point being.
Folk can get you to believe if you refrain from acting out your own life, you could save lives. (hypothetical living). Where does it end?

Prevention is better than a CURE!
Hmm...

If I don’t drive on the highway, I have a 0% chance of killing someone on the highway. Absent of abstention, I have a chance of killing someone. Statistics show the more drivers, the more deaths. Yet, everyone in this thread continues to drive on the highways. Wouldn’t a more selfless position be to abstain for the collective good? Why do we not honor, encourage, force, shame and ultimately enforce that? Even if it saves a singe life, right?

1.35 million people die in road accidentsworldwide every year — 3,700 deaths a day. Car crashes have risen to the 8th leading cause of death for people globally.

 

[David Harrison]

If I don’t drive on the highway, I have a 0% chance of killing someone on the highway. Absent of abstention, I have a chance of killing someone. Statistics show the more drivers, the more deaths. Yet, everyone in this thread continues to drive on the highways. Wouldn’t a more selfless position be to abstain for the collective good? Why do we not honor, encourage, force, shame and ultimately enforce that? Even if it saves a singe life, right?

1.35 million people die in road accidentsworldwide every year — 3,700 deaths a day. Car crashes have risen to the 8th leading cause of death for people globally.

The "art" of thinking. As rare as oil storage

 

[Longinus]

Facts only seem to matter when it fits the (political) agenda. Unless you're detached from this, it's hard to see and not treat them as personal attacks. Pity.

I wonder if this thread can sink any lower.

 

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[ChrisV]

Seriously Chris. In my country Argentina the senate already passed a law that vaccines are MANDATORY, wheter you want it or not. Word is you got to show you got your vaccines or you can't get an ID or a driver licence.
So let's talk of vaccine ingredients:
You know what Wi-38 cells are? Those are cells from the lung of an aborted female human fetus.
Not a theory, you can fact check in 10 seconds or less.
Timerosal ? That is a comercial name for mercury.
Formalehyde?
A stupid toilet video will not make me forget what those are.
Bill Gates gives a lot of money to WHO and is in the vaccine making business. So he is likely the responsable for the inyecting of this disgusting ingredients into millions of people.
Oh and if you don't like it ? Don't worry, WHO says to goverment to buy vaccines for everybody, either one wants the fetal tissue inyected or not, its paid by our taxes.
That is the opression we live in. I wish there was more theory on this conspiracy, this is just opression.
Saying Bill Gates is just a nice guy is Fake News. And like you said, misinformation should not be allowed to spread.

I actually want to go back to this, because this post isn't fully true. Argentina did not pass any laws saying you have to vaccinate. The laws are that if you want your kids to use public schools and you want to use other public services you need to present a vaccine card.

Now I will say that I think this is a little overkill, but I support those actions more than I oppose them.

There are plenty of arguments in the other direction.

Anti-vaxxers create dangers for EVERYONE. If I vaccinate my kids, and some cluster of 'enlightened' parents decide not to (because some conspiracy-theory Facebook group they're in said not to).. what happens is that that disease spreads through those unvaxinated children and mutates into a superbug that we can't fight with our current vaccines.

It eventually nullifies my children's vaccine.

All because now these mad-hatters don't want to listed to doctors and created a new disease.

I'm sorry but I don't want parents bringing their little unvaxinated kids around mine. I don't want them playing in parks with unvaxinated kids, I don't want them making friends with unvaxinated kids in school.

You have no god-given right to public services.

Fine... If you want to go live in the woods somewhere and start your own society based off your own science you made up.. go for it.

But people want the benefits of modern society, but don't want to do the things that actually make modern society modern. You're able to read this message on your smartphone or computer because the scientific method works. If you want to be anti-vaxxer or science deniers... go for it. Just do it away from us. Because this society works because the scientific method works.

Seriously... if want create a better society.. go for it. I mean that society will very likely be wiped out by some strange disease within a few decades, but shit.. go for it.

But people want to live in our society and not play by our rules because they have some wacky conspiracy theory about the literally microscopic amounts mercury in vaccines.

Again, I'm like 60/40 for/against laws like these, but there are plenty of solid arguments in the other direction.

So yea, Bill Gates is a F*cking hero. If it weren't for Windows and Microsoft this world would be a much different (in a bad way) place. And he's continuing to make the world a better place with his foundations.

 

[GIlman]

Texas judge’s 30-day coronavirus mask order blasted as 'ultimate government overreach'

A judge in Harris County, Texas, on Wednesday ordered residents to start wearing face masks in public for 30 days beginning next week. But the action drew immediate pushback – including from the state’s lieutenant governor.

www.foxnews.com

Can someone explain this to me. Preferably someone in Texas with more direct information. How does a judge pass an order on society in general. Isn’t that a legislatures job, how does a judge create a law and enforce it.

 

[ChrisV]

The models our governments used to project everything were completely wrong.

No. They weren't.

I create these types models for a living. You guys just fundamentally misunderstand how statistical models work, and I get paid way too much to provide an education on how they function.

You telling me that they're 'wrong' is like me sitting there lecturing my car mechanic about how transmissions work.

 

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[Vigilante]

Texas judge’s 30-day coronavirus mask order blasted as 'ultimate government overreach'

A judge in Harris County, Texas, on Wednesday ordered residents to start wearing face masks in public for 30 days beginning next week. But the action drew immediate pushback – including from the state’s lieutenant governor.

www.foxnews.com

Can someone explain this to me. Preferably someone in Texas with more direct information. How does a judge pass an order on society in general. Isn’t that a legislatures job, how does a judge create a law and enforce it.

@Kak I know you are avoiding this thread more than a redneck avoids a charging station but isn’t this your county?

 

[ChrisV]

screams and ambulance sirens

Well I live in the NY / CT area, so actually there are disproportionately more 'screams and ambulance sirens' where I live in comparison to the rest of the forum. And that is where the problem lies. People looking out their windows and thinking what they see represents the entire United States / World.

I'm not pro-lockdown, I'm Anti-Anti-lockdown. I'm anti-'there's one policy that works for everyone.' Rural areas (where most fasteners live) don't really need them. But on the other hand New York needs them. Period. Every single New Yorker I know agrees, so making these grossly oversimplified statements like "lockdown are good" or "lockdowns are bad" is just utter gobbildy gook.

And the other thing is.. if you don't like lockdowns, just make your case without using fallacious reasoning.

Here's a valid argument: "Hey, my particular community hasn't been hit that hard, and there's no evidence that the hospitals will be overrun anytime soon, so maybe the Pros of lifting the lockdown outweigh the cons in my community. I understand if other communities have different needs, but my community? I think it would be better if we opened."

But rather the arguments are "the models are wrong and this is all just a ploy for Bill Gates to sell vaccines" or whatever other mental backflips people have to do to sell their case of just not liking lockdowns. Here's a valid argument: "I don't like these lockdowns. They're making me unhappy and I've lost money." Instead we get "The models our governments used to project everything were completely wrong."

No. No. No.

I've explained this in a previous post.

First off, that stuff comes from an article posted here from Daily Wire which is essentially a hardcore right wing propaganda machine.

Epidemiologist Behind Highly-Cited Coronavirus Model Drastically Downgrades Projection | The Daily Wire

www.dailywire.com

I mean Daily Wire is literally run by Ben Shapiro. It's not considered a credible news source. This isn't an article by Reuters or some other credible/unbiased source. It's like citing Breitbart or Occupy Democrats.

The Daily Wire - Bias and Credibility

RIGHT BIAS These media sources are moderate to strongly biased toward conservative causes through story selection and/or political affiliation. They may

mediabiasfactcheck.com

Furthermore, they corrected their article later:

"Correction: The original title of this article incorrectly suggested that Neil Ferguson stated his initial model was wrong. The article has been revised to make clear that he provided a downgraded projection given the new data and current mitigation steps. This article has also been updated to include Ferguson’s clarifying statement posted on Twitter on Thursday."

He made a new model before / after mitigatigation steps, and that's most of the difference. The other difference was that CV has been circulating so some people were immune. Those were added to the model too, but the largest difference in R0 was for mitigation steps.

If you don't like lockdowns, say you don't like lockdowns. Human comfort is a valid argument. Saying the models are wrong and other falsehoods does nothing to further your case.

The models our governments used to project everything were completely wrong. Which is fine, it’s better to overreact than under react with a pandemic like this. But at this point we know the death rate isn’t what it was, there is not going to be a vaccine for 1-2 years and the best thing the government can do is actually test everyone, release restrictions and protect public health through the system they have. Not impose restrictions on systems they cannot control.

I'm fairly certain I've said that same exact thing like 16 times.

Increase testing, lift quarantines.

Rural areas for the most part never needed quarantines.

Cities and hard hit areas did.

Overall crude Case Fatality Rate worldwide is 7%. United States is 5.

The models our governments used to project everything were completely wrong. Which is fine, it’s better to overreact than under react with a pandemic like this. But at this point we know the death rate isn’t what it was, there is not going to be a vaccine for 1-2 years and the best thing the government can do is actually test everyone, release restrictions and protect public health through the system they have. Not impose restrictions on systems they cannot control.

You’re arguments about public health ignore the economic, social, and mental heath issues that are inevitable and will be way worse than this virus. For clarity; I’m not downplaying the virus. But as it stands more people will starve, commit suicide, lose everything, abuse their family members, create social unrest, and suffer in countless other ways as a ripple effect from what the government has done.

Again, health vs economy is a false dichotomy. Abandoning quarantine measures before adequate testing is in place does more economic harm than maintaining them. Period. Consensus among economists:

http://www.igmchicago.org/igm-economic-experts-panel/

This is from a bi-partisan panel of Nobel Prize winning economists.

 

[MTF]

The reason this thread was originally one of the most informative and thought-provoking threads in the history of the forum was because it was a bastion of ideas and data from all points of view. After the first 100 pages it became polarized much like the country has become polarized with people talking past each other not talking to each other. I’m as guilty of this as anybody else posting here at this point. Everybody has pretty much formulated their opinions on this through extensive discussion and research and now most (all?) are simply in search of confirmation bias. The upside is at least a lot of it is original content and not talking points.

So we’ve become the rest of the Internet.

All the more reason to focus on creating value and going back to the original purpose of this thread. No need to write it off. I've stated my opinion, too but it doesn't mean I (or everyone else for that matter) can't keep reporting objective interesting updates. Whether we agree with each other or not, we're all in this together.

So here we go:

https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/bern-r...e-within-reach--say-swiss-scientists/45704796

A team of researchers at the University of Bern is hoping to be the first to produce a vaccine against C0VlD-19 and inoculate the entire Swiss population in October.

“We have a realistic chance of being successful,” said Martin Bachmann, head of immunology at the Swiss university via a web conference with ACANU, the United Nations press association. “Switzerland has a history of being pragmatic and is more interested in finding a compromise to get the vaccine faster.”

“The vaccine is unique because of the huge scalability. It has the ability to produce billions of doses in a short time frame,” Bachmann said.

Who's up for an early vaccine?

If they somehow managed not to cut corners in a mad rush to create it and if it's really possible to scale it up so fast then maybe this nightmare can be over by the end of the year. A lot of iffy ifs, the worst being: what if there are side effects a few years down the line?

-----

So far four previously infected countries and territories are coronavirus-free:

• Greenland (11 cases, all recovered, 56,025 population) - virus-free since April 8, still under lockdown, 20,257 tests per 1M population (higher than Spain, to compare, US tests at the moment 13,071 per 1M population). Slowly planning to reopen: After 11 C0VlD-19 infections, Greenland plans to slowly reopen Nuuk | Nunatsiaq News
• Saint Lucia (15 cases, all recovered, 181,889 population) - still under lockdown but it's the first day with no active cases. Not much testing done, though (1,982 per 1M). More details on the situation here: 100 percent recovery of C0VlD-19 cases in St Lucia
• Mauritania (7 cases, 1 death, 4.403 million population) - virus-free since April 18. Very little testing done (just 208 per 1M) but the country is sparsely populated. The country is currently enforcing a nigh-time curfew as part of containment efforts. More info here: Mauritania, West African Country With Seven C0VlD-19 Cases, One Death, Now Coronavirus-free | Sahara Reporters
• St. Barth (6 cases, all recovered, 9,131 population) - the last case cured on April 21. No info regarding how much testing was done but given that it belongs to France it was probably sufficient for the small population. Slowly relaxing restrictions but you're still required to sign an "exit certificate" before you go outside. More info (in French) here: La baignade et les engins bruyants de nouveau autorisés à compter de demain

 

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[NovaAria]

@ChrisV I agree with you on a lot of what you said, but let me one up you on a couple of points.

First off, before reading TFM and quitting my day job, I was working in Pharmaceutical Biotechs and Bioengineering and, believe me, there is 0 good will in that field. I have talked about vaccine patents a lot in this thread as this is my field of study and I would have loved to dabble in it again if I smelled a good opportunity.
Vaccines are not free and they are not made to eradicate diseases. They are products a company pours millions in research and development to make, they protect them with continually renewed IP patents, and the greatest joy of a vaccine manufacturer is to see a government add his product to the list of mandatory vaccines.
There is a reason why investing in Pharmaceutical companies is one of the safest investments ever. People can stop using their cars, can eat less if the money is tight... But if the doctor prescribes you something and tells you that you will go blind if you don't buy it, will you really skip that?
The heart behind mandatory vaccination is good, we need that for certain diseases. But when you start asking which vaccines should be added to the list, who pays for them and who gets that money... suddenly its a whole new discussion where ethics go out the window.

As for Bill Gates, he is no angel either. If you're a bit of an internet geek, read up on Microsoft's EEE strategy and you will start seeing how much they strangle the competition by pretending to help it. Billie himself used to sell operating systems for computers, but now his business is in selling the data he acquires through operating systems. The running joke right now is that the worst malware you could get on Windows 10, is Windows 10 itself.
So when you think of him as a data salesman, does it surprise you that he's a pioneer in skin-chips and vaccines that can be tracked with computers? Is that really what African children who can barely get enough food really need?

And my final point is, yes, Africa is the testing ground for all manners of vaccines and drugs. And this is not an anecdote. I personally worked with the US government on research done for curing the Leishmania disease in North Africa. We benefited from the research and got drugs and equipment as aid but the goal was never to help cure a disease that hit the people there, that was a secondary benefit. The goal for the US government was to have a cure for something a soldier could catch when deployed in the middle east or elsewhere.

There are no angels when money is involved, so don't ask if there will be a Corona vaccine, but ask who will pay for it, and who will get that money. The worldwide panic is literally a money printing machine waiting for someone to start it.

 

[Andreas Thiel]

I am really torn when it comes to the numbers. But looking back at the Diamond Princess numbers, doesn't that also look more in line with the antibody numbers that suggest a way lower mortality rate?

What the cruise-ship outbreaks reveal about COVID-19

Close confines help the virus to spread, but closed environments are also an ideal place to study how the new coronavirus behaves.

www.nature.com

I assume the mortality rate varies a lot depending on age groups. With a high average age and still a relatively low overall mortality (1.1%) ... should we now assume that most people on that ship would have been tested positive with antibody tests - not just the 700?

 

[GIlman]

I am really torn when it comes to the numbers. But looking back at the Diamond Princess numbers, doesn't that also look more in line with the antibody numbers that suggest a way lower mortality rate?

What the cruise-ship outbreaks reveal about COVID-19

Close confines help the virus to spread, but closed environments are also an ideal place to study how the new coronavirus behaves.

www.nature.com

I assume the mortality rate varies a lot depending on age groups. With a high average age and still a relatively low overall mortality (1.1%) ... should we now assume that most people on that ship would have been tested positive with antibody tests - not just the 700?

Actually, I think the diamond princess is more distressing than comforting in outlook. As I’ve said before, the problem with this disease is that you HAVE to keep watching to know what really is going on. It has been 2 months since the diamond princess saga began. That article you reference is from 3/26. SInce that time the death toll has risen to 13, or 1.8%. 4 remain serious/critical, being sick do long they are likely not to survive. But all we can say is minimum death rate was 1.8%, maximum 2.4%. Average age of passenger on the cruise as I recall was 56, which will increase death rate some compared to the general population.

As far as the antibody test, it would have made zero sense (and it wasn’t developed yet anyway) to test passengers for antibodies. It takes weeks for antibodies to appear after infection. That’s why they did the viral rna PCR test, looking for actual infection. If passengers left the ship and were negative for covid 19 by PCR, one would assume that a positive antibody test done today would have been due to a subsequent infection rather than from the diamond princess.

Antibody studies by Stanford, USC, and Mass General in Chealsy suggests good news for lower mortality rates, but the sample sizes are low which can cause major errors from bias. But even the most optimistic from Mass General (Chelsea) suggests antibody positive rate of 30% of the population (14,000). So if we accept actual infected to 30% of Chelsea (14,000), we can calculate current death rate of 0.3%. But as pointed out above in the diamond princess, this is a long disease and the 0.3% is likely to rise to more like 0.5%+.

 

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[Trevor Kuntz]

classic liberal.... if people don’t agree with you they’re reacting from a place of instinct and not intelligence. The tolerance crowd has a monopoly on intellect. This is why, at its core, having a sustained discussion with liberals always goes here. When the weight of your 3,000,000 dead projection turns into being 97% wrong, the little people just can’t understand from a logical perspective. We just don’t understand science.

Unfortunately For you, Doc, we do. And basic math. The Emperor no clothes.

You can be as smug and condescending and arrogant as you want. That probably plays well in the circles you travel in. Doesn’t make you any less wrong than you have been here for the previous 139 pages.

Only someone who has never met Gilman in real life or has never listened to his podcasts or has never read his posts without bias would form this opinion. Not everything is so left or right, Dave. Assuming someone's political orientation based on their views about one topic is probably not accurate unless they outright tell you their political orientation and just because someone disagrees with you about one topic does not mean they are on the opposite end of the political spectrum regarding everything else.

I personally worked with the US government on research done for curing the Leishmania disease in North Africa.

Thank you for your really interesting insights. I'm glad that we have so many people on this forum who can provide first-hand accounts about the medical field. If we ever meet at a summit or B&P, I will have a million questions about your leishmaniasis research. Nothing is as interesting to me as parasitic diseases. Lol.

 

[Kak]

Texas judge’s 30-day coronavirus mask order blasted as 'ultimate government overreach'

A judge in Harris County, Texas, on Wednesday ordered residents to start wearing face masks in public for 30 days beginning next week. But the action drew immediate pushback – including from the state’s lieutenant governor.

www.foxnews.com

Can someone explain this to me. Preferably someone in Texas with more direct information. How does a judge pass an order on society in general. Isn’t that a legislatures job, how does a judge create a law and enforce it.

I can explain this for you.

In Texas, just like a city has a council and the executive figure is the mayor... The county has a commissioners “court” and “THE county judge” in Texas is like the mayor/executive figure of the county. It is like a county ordinance.

They aren’t judicial judges. The county judge doesn’t wear robes or hang out in a courtroom. It is just a name and it confuses the hell out of everyone constantly.

I am not in Harris, I am in Montgomery. Neighboring county to the north, but I know all of these idiots.

 

[Andreas Thiel]

Actually, I think the diamond princess is more distressing than comforting in outlook. As I’ve said before, the problem with this disease is that you HAVE to keep watching to know what really is going on. It has been 2 months since the diamond princess saga began. That article you reference is from 3/26. SInce that time the death toll has risen to 13, or 1.8%. 4 remain serious/critical, being sick do long they are likely not to survive. But all we can say is minimum death rate was 1.8%, maximum 2.4%. Average age of passenger on the cruise as I recall was 56, which will increase death rate some compared to the general population.

As far as the antibody test, it would have made zero sense (and it wasn’t developed yet anyway) to test passengers for antibodies. It takes weeks for antibodies to appear after infection. That’s why they did the viral rna PCR test, looking for actual infection. If passengers left the ship and were negative for covid 19 by PCR, one would assume that a positive antibody test done today would have been due to a subsequent infection rather than from the diamond princess.

Antibody studies by Stanford, USC, and Mass General in Chealsy suggests good news for lower mortality rates, but the sample sizes are low which can cause major errors from bias. But even the most optimistic from Mass General (Chelsea) suggests antibody positive rate of 30% of the population (14,000). So if we accept actual infected to 30% of Chelsea (14,000), we can calculate current death rate of 0.3%. But as pointed out above in the diamond princess, this is a long disease and the 0.3% is likely to rise to more like 0.5%+.

Okay, so the 7% that some people keep bringing up are unlikely, but the 0.09% even more so.
We'd only get closer towards the 1% and below if some (as in: many) people were infected and cured before the tests were done. Then the PCR tests probably would not have been positive. But I agree, that is somewhat unlikely.

 

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[Contrarian]

@ChrisV I agree with you on a lot of what you said, but let me one up you on a couple of points.

First off, before reading TFM and quitting my day job, I was working in Pharmaceutical Biotechs and Bioengineering and, believe me, there is 0 good will in that field. I have talked about vaccine patents a lot in this thread as this is my field of study and I would have loved to dabble in it again if I smelled a good opportunity.
Vaccines are not free and they are not made to eradicate diseases. They are products a company pours millions in research and development to make, they protect them with continually renewed IP patents, and the greatest joy of a vaccine manufacturer is to see a government add his product to the list of mandatory vaccines.
There is a reason why investing in Pharmaceutical companies is one of the safest investments ever. People can stop using their cars, can eat less if the money is tight... But if the doctor prescribes you something and tells you that you will go blind if you don't buy it, will you really skip that?
The heart behind mandatory vaccination is good, we need that for certain diseases. But when you start asking which vaccines should be added to the list, who pays for them and who gets that money... suddenly its a whole new discussion where ethics go out the window.

As for Bill Gates, he is no angel either. If you're a bit of an internet geek, read up on Microsoft's EEE strategy and you will start seeing how much they strangle the competition by pretending to help it. Billie himself used to sell operating systems for computers, but now his business is in selling the data he acquires through operating systems. The running joke right now is that the worst malware you could get on Windows 10, is Windows 10 itself.
So when you think of him as a data salesman, does it surprise you that he's a pioneer in skin-chips and vaccines that can be tracked with computers? Is that really what African children who can barely get enough food really need?

And my final point is, yes, Africa is the testing ground for all manners of vaccines and drugs. And this is not an anecdote. I personally worked with the US government on research done for curing the Leishmania disease in North Africa. We benefited from the research and got drugs and equipment as aid but the goal was never to help cure a disease that hit the people there, that was a secondary benefit. The goal for the US government was to have a cure for something a soldier could catch when deployed in the middle east or elsewhere.

There are no angels when money is involved, so don't ask if there will be a Corona vaccine, but ask who will pay for it, and who will get that money. The worldwide panic is literally a money printing machine waiting for someone to start it.

Fascinating insight.

While I am not interested in offering an opinion right now on the benefits vs. adverse event profile of vaccines, it's hard to think of an industry with a higher risk profile for moral hazard.

Who wouldn't want to own the exclusive rights to a mandatory product that gets purchased for everyone in the country (or world), year after year, indefinitely?

What kind of sums are floating around for bribery to secure such an arrangement, I wonder?

I had a brush with big pharma recently. Fluoroquinolone antibiotics. It was like my whole body and mind turned on me. Multi-systemic reaction. I must have had over 30 different symptoms at one point. I've never been so ill in my entire life. Four months on I'm about 90% better, but a few things are lingering, and now I have a ton of annoying eye floaters that I don't think will ever go away. It also feels like my entire state of health is more precarious than it used to be.

When I dug down the rabbit hole, I was shocked to learn that adverse reactions to fluoroquinolones are incredibly common, and frequently far worse than what I experienced (as in, permanently disabling or debilitating). For many people, the adverse reaction doesn't appear for weeks or even months until after they've been taken - so it's never connected back to the drug. There is even a (reasonably plausible, IMO) theory that many of the mystery illnesses that have become so prevalent in recent decades (like ME/CFS and fibromyalgia, and even Gulf War Syndrome) are largely caused by fluoroquinolone use.

I also learned that noone really knows why they cause these reactions, but one possibility is that they damage mitochondrial DNA (which nobody knew existed when fluoroquinolones were invented). Which can cause multi-systemic effects, sometimes immediately but sometimes the state of ill health will not manifest until years or even decades later.

Anyway, I digress. So as to tie this back to the topic at hand and not hijack the thread, I guess my point is that blindly trusting medical professionals and bioscientists might ruin your life one day. Question everything and weigh up the risks and benefits. Noone else is invested in your own health and wellbeing like you are.

 

[Vigilante]

What does NYC and Wuhan have in common? What does the WHO have to say about these wet markets? Did the SARS outbreak in the early 2000's also originate from the wet markets? This is enough to make you go full out vegetarian.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_t83cF30XU

 

[David Harrison]

Whoops!!
What a coincidence?

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=525&v=wNkDiBOO4H0&feature=emb_logo

 

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[Kak]

Educate yourself. You might be a self-proclaimed data expert, but it’s clear you are deficient in legal study.

Rather than defend your argument against mine, you chose to nitpick one piece of my argument in an attempt to discredit it. I will admit I misspoke and said commerce is protected by the Fifth Amendment. However, it is in fact Congress’ authority (under the Commerce Clause) to regulate interstate commerce, which many governors have violated. That was not a right given to the states in the Fourteenth Amendment.

In addition to self-incrimination (and all the “other good stuff ”) the Fifth Amendment also protects freedom of movement, despite the unconstitutional quarantines you referenced in that diluted Wikipedia link. Furthermore we can reference the Fourteenth Amendment to support the right of movement on a state level.

Do the research and learn. I would have given you references, however, your pompous attitude leads me to believe you can find them on your own. I wouldn’t want to insult your intelligence by doing the work for you.

What about "Right to peaceable assembly" I would consider that violated. FIRST AMENDMENT!

The the FIRST, SECOND, FOURTH, FIFTH, SIXTH, EIGHTH, NINTH, FOURTEENTH, and I could even make an argument for THIRTEENTH, amendments have also been violated amidst this "SHITSHOW."

Who needs toilet paper when everyone just wants to use the constitution? The reason our bill of rights is there in the first place is to list rights that should never be violated by government. Violations are usually challenged judicially. We have seen NONE of this.

These affirmations of rights and limits on government are literally the foundation that separates the USA from becoming an authoritarian country like China.

@ChrisV you are someone I consider a very good friend, but, I vehemently disagree with nearly everything you are posting in this thread. It seems you take the analysis of government employed experts with their moment of spotlight, grasping at their 15 minutes of fame for dear life, as fact.

I don't blame you, it is what we are taught (indoctrinated) to do, but if you broaden your thought process, outside of government lackeys, instead of dismissing everyone that isn't operating in an "official government capacity" as a conspiracy theorist, you might start to see where we are coming from.

 

[MoneyDoc]

My final post to this thread as some peoples posts are just unbelievable.

What have we learned so far:

Fatality rate is MUCH lower than we initial thought.

It's a NEW virus and it's SUPPOSED to infect AND kill people.

Overall human fatality rate is probably MUCH less than it was last year this time (less car travel).

Lockdowns in less infected states, cities were not necessary.

People really are like sheep. You throw them some free money and they follow order.

The people advocating for extended lockdowns are the people living off of government cheques and they enjoy it.

Oh, and the flu killed a few thousand people this month too. Yes, I am making the comparison.

You and I going back and forth in this thread did us no good. How much value did we add to our existing businesses during this time? Instead of people suddenly turning into data scientists and doctors, we should focus on our own lives more.

 

[hellolin]

So from this thread, my choices are pretty much this:

1. Believe in the future aspiring small business owners who thinks experts and governments are not in our best interest.

2. Believe in government and large organizations, where some poster has already said, they are in for the money, not really for the cure.

3. Looks like we are not really in this together, at all. Not in a 'rich' and 'poor' type of way as the media likes to think, but literally in every other way. It is gonna be interesting when a large number of people living in the US refuses to take the official government vaccine in a few months, that will probably make excellent material for the upcoming Nov. election.

 

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[Trevor Kuntz]

"For 28 days, they did not leave — sleeping and working all in one place.

In what they called a "live-in" at the factory, the undertaking was just one example of the endless ways that Americans in every industry have uniquely contributed to fighting coronavirus. The 43 men went home Sunday after each working 12-hour shifts all day and night for a month straight, producing tens of millions of pounds of the raw materials that will end up in face masks and surgical gowns worn on the front lines of the pandemic."

"Nikolich said the plants decided to launch the live-ins so employees could avoid having to worry about catching the virus while constantly traveling to and from work, and so the staff at the factory could be closed off to nonessential personnel.
"We tried to make them as comfortable as possible," Nikolich said.

"Boyce said some guys brought their Xbox consoles and TVs, and even a cornhole set, to stay entertained. They stayed active at the on-site gym, which "has never been used so much before," Boyce said, and stayed extra busy in the kitchen. A skilled cook, Boyce and others asked corporate for more pots and pans and a stove, whipping up creamed corn, barbecue and even filet mignon dinners for more than 40 people a night.
Before long, they fell into a routine like they were all in one enormous household, he said.
"We had to kind of adapt. We came up with a chart for housekeeping chores so we could all clean the bathrooms and clean up after meals," Boyce said. "It wasn't long before we're all sitting in the same spots at dinner."

But being separated from family got harder as time went on, said Boyce, a father of two teenagers. Some guys counted down the days. One missed the birth of his first grandchild. Visitors weren't allowed.

So on Day 14, the families organized a "drive-by visit," Boyce said. It was their hump day, celebrating not only being halfway done but also free of any signs of the virus, as no one during that 14-day period developed even a sniffle. With a police escort, more than two dozen families paraded past the plant bearing signs and cheering from the windows — too far away for a conversation but just close enough "to give a boost to all the guys," Boyce said.
"It was something to see," he said. "Just a shout and wave was pretty much what we got, but it was enough."

They went back to work. The days blended between factory floor and conference-room bedrooms, until finally, on Sunday, it was time to clock out.
“We wanted to walk out as a team,” Boyce said. “Everybody felt that way. It really hit me when my car got a little ways down from the plant — I’m finally going to see my family.”

They lived in a Delco factory for 28 days to make millions of pounds of raw PPE materials to help fight coronavirus

The undertaking was just one example of the endless ways that Americans in every industry have uniquely contributed to fighting the coronavirus.

www.inquirer.com

 

[Matt Sun]

Trust me, I know all about it.

This is a common misconception about vaccines.

There's more mercury in the tunafish sandwich you ate than in a vaccine. Formalehyde is in many of your body care products, which in the worst case scenario cause minor skin irritation.

Why Anti-Vaxxers Are Wrong About Mercury In Shots

Some vaccines contain mercury. Some meteorites contain amino acids. But it's in the details where things get interesting.

www.forbes.com

And referencing stem cells is just an appeal to emotion. Stem cells obviously aren't dangerous.


What the hell lol. The fifth Amendment is the right to not self-incriminate.. plus double jeopardy and all that good stuff.

There's nothing in the constitution prohibiting a Quarantine, and the US Government has done it many times.

Hi Cris.
What a weak answer you give me, a Forbes article with no real science to back it up: "Don't worry, is the good mercury, not the bad mercury!" that argument is not against me but againts the periodic table.

Anyway, this thread should be about giving value. Here is a real scientist that works in Switzerland, he has patents of the compound he talks about. One that can kill C0VlD-19 and many other viruses.

https://lbry.tv/@Kalcker:7/Why-ClO2-works-against-C0VlD-19:2?r=3HjkA7vfUjLE4gTappooSekm2PuYr5Du

He shows you things on the microscope, and explains everything with great detail. And you can search and there are hundreds if not thousands of testimonies of real people cured by this stuff (from many illness). And he doesn't make any money selling it since is a cheap substance that is found everywhere in the world.
Recently he got his youtube chanel closed, and his paypal account closed too.
Conspiracy?
You think I don't have anything better to do than be saying Bill Gates and WHO are corrupt? Is it too much to ask to not get inyected with mercury, aluminum and the human DNA that you recognize it's inside the vaccines? Are we not FREE not to be lab rats?
If anything good comes from this virus is we discussing how corrupt WHO really is.