Random Chat, Thoughts, Posts, and/or Rants Thread

[ApparentHorizon]

A 3-1 post ratio says people really value what you post here. 3 likes for every 1 post! That's WAY higher than the average which is around 1:1 (if that). Hopefully you can hang out a bit and not feel like you have to fit any specific "look." With that post ratio, you HAVE established credibility. The badges are systematic, not awards. If you keep posting, they'd come automatically. You're a platinum contributor with speedway access. Legendary or epic just come automatically with post counts just like your platinum and speedway did. Fastlane is bought, but if you read the book(s) you can get that one if you ever wanted it. You don't really need ANY of those though because most people look at your posts and if they have value, you can see it in the post ratios. Yours have value. You can see it statistically.

Anyway, this sentiment is happening in more than just your post, so you are not alone. You've been here 4 years, so you have seen the ebb and flow of the forum. Fads come and go, and people come and go. However, the forum is still one of the highest traffic entrepreneur forums on the web. I've spent some time at some of the other ones, and I always drift back here. If you do the same, I hope you drift back... but always worthwhile to see if there is something that is more worth your time out there.

I was sad to see this. I don't doubt what you said, but I think you might find as I have it may be true everywhere. In the church, on this forum, in other forums, and I blew up my Facebook page for much the same thought. The good news though is you get to pick and choose who you want to listen to or not, and I recently embraced the forum IGNORE feature for the first time ever, and it makes things a whole lot better when you can just NOT spend time on the people you think don't merit it. Trust your gut.

Dave

Thank you for your kind words Dave. I'm often in the Tampa area, and I'll buy you a beer one day.

I respect many of you and this is one of the few places left online where I can just "hang out."

Reflecting on my post, I lashed out because I expect more from myself. I'm looking for a reason to justify why I haven't accomplished my big and audacious goals, yet. I have the potential to make a bigger impact on the world, and yet I feel an internal struggle holding me back.

I'll be back, but for now I will do some "soul searching."

Thank you.

 

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[Vigilante]

Thank you for your kind words Dave. I'm often in the Tampa area, and I'll buy you a beer one day.

I respect many of you and this is one of the few places left online where I can just "hang out."

Reflecting on my post, I lashed out because I expect more from myself. I'm looking for a reason to justify why I haven't accomplished my big and audacious goals, yet. I have the potential to make a bigger impact on the world, and yet I feel an internal struggle holding me back.

I'll be back, but for now I will do some "soul searching."

Thank you.

You and Kyle and I will have a call next week. Bump this thread to remind me and I will put it together on Tuesday or Wednesday.

 

[Kid]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZ6RldO-SvE


Interesting video....


What are the dangers of hand sanitizer?
5 Hidden Dangers of Hand Sanitizers

1. Toxic Chemicals.
2. Weaker Immune System. ...
3. Hormone Disruption. Another effect of triclosan is hormone problems. ...
4. Alcohol Poisoning. Just because it doesn't have triclosan, doesn't mean it's completely safe. ...
5. Antibiotic Resistance. Antibiotics are effective against bacteria. ...

I was told to use hand sanitizer while being a customer at a store, had a headache shortly after, coincidence?

Ok. Disease didn't kill us... so the cure does.

 

[amp0193]

So I'll repeat what a lot of us are thinking, but not voicing our opinions, because we don't have the badge next to our names:
- There are some senior members who are posturing hypocrites
- There are some senior members who are frauds

Not sure who or what you're referring to with this. I don't have a problem with any of the mods or "senior members" here.

However this, and @AgainstAllOdds 's threads made me reflect a bit.


I'm not sure if it's because my "bullshit meter" has become more finely tuned over the last 7 years (it has), or if it's an actual trend (it might be), but it seems that overtime this place has gotten more "spammy". It seems like more people are using the forum as a source of leads for their funnel.


I wonder though, if mods or influential members pushing their services (even if they are good services), might play a part in encouraging other, less reputable people to attempt to "farm" the forum with their own offers.


I'm not saying people shouldn't be allowed to coach, sell courses, etc. There's nothing inherently wrong with doing so. I've been coached by @LightHouse through an offer here. It was awesome and life-changing.


I'm not even saying that the forum shouldn't have sponsors. Sponsors are an alignment of incentives that keeps those sponsors producing quality content and threads, and makes MJ's business some money.


I'm just commenting on my hypothesis that people pushing coaching, courses or services, may cause detrimental side effects that affect the quality of the community.


If I were to improve this, I'd start with:

1. No mods selling anything to forum members (again, not because the offers are bad, but just because I think it sets a weird precedent when it's "from the top". i.e. @Andy Black @Fox . Even @Vigilante promoting @Kak 's coaching on one of your early MYB podcasts... you had a right to of course, it just felt weird to me, and I wonder if others might have thought so too).
2. No user signatures linking to a website selling anything, or linking to a marketplace ad.
3. Post that thread you were thinking about posting. The one that would be valuable to others. Yes you reading this. Let's be a community that learns together. Be a giver, not a taker.


#2 would disincentive some people to post. It could potentially backfire and cause overall quality of forum content to decrease. But it's an idea.



Love you guys. Love this place.


Let's propose solutions, not just point out the problems.

 

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[sparechange]

Not sure who or what you're referring to with this. I don't have a problem, or think anything ill, of any mods or "senior members" here.

However this, and the other threads made me reflect a bit.


I'm not sure if it's because my "bullshit meter" has become more finely tuned over the last 7 years (it has), or if it's an actual trend (it might be), but it seems that overtime this place has gotten more "spammy". It seems like more people are using the forum as a source of leads for their funnel.


I wonder though, if mods or influential members pushing their services (even if they are good services), might play a part in encouraging other, less reputable people to attempt to "farm" the forum with their own offers.


I'm not saying people shouldn't be allowed to coach, sell courses, etc. There's nothing inherently wrong with doing so. I've been coached by @LightHouse through an offer here. It was awesome and life-changing.


I'm not even saying that the forum shouldn't have sponsors. Sponsors are an alignment of incentives that keeps those sponsors producing quality content and threads, and makes MJ's business some money.


I'm just commenting on my hypothesis that people pushing coaching, courses or services, may cause detrimental side effects that affect the quality of the community.


If I were to improve this, I'd start with this:

1. No mods selling anything to forum members (again, not because the offers are bad, but just because I think it sets a weird precedent when it's "from the top").
2. No user signatures selling anything or linking to a website selling anything, or linking to a marketplace ad.


#2 would disincentive some people to post. It could potentially backfire and cause overall quality of forum content to decrease. But it's an idea.



Love you guys. Love this place.


Let's propose solutions, not just point out the problems.

The latest bozo is the sanj moda guy, this scumbag is posting up some crappy shopify thread and sneaking in a funnel. Like against all odds mentioned before, post fake value, then either post up an ad or whatever, at least this guy is pretty smart about it by having his name up, you can google it and of course as I imagined, the bum has a social media agency with some hilarious claims of $50,000,000 in ad spend.

With all of that being said, the forum still has a ton of great content, you, biophase, andy and countless others. I guess there's always some bad apples in the bunch that slip through every now and then.

 

[ApparentHorizon]

Not sure who or what you're referring to with this. I don't have a problem, or think anything ill, of any mods or "senior members" here.

However this, and the other threads made me reflect a bit.


I'm not sure if it's because my "bullshit meter" has become more finely tuned over the last 7 years (it has), or if it's an actual trend (it might be), but it seems that overtime this place has gotten more "spammy". It seems like more people are using the forum as a source of leads for their funnel.


I wonder though, if mods or influential members pushing their services (even if they are good services), might play a part in encouraging other, less reputable people to attempt to "farm" the forum with their own offers.


I'm not saying people shouldn't be allowed to coach, sell courses, etc. There's nothing inherently wrong with doing so. I've been coached by @LightHouse through an offer here. It was awesome and life-changing.


I'm not even saying that the forum shouldn't have sponsors. Sponsors are an alignment of incentives that keeps those sponsors producing quality content and threads, and makes MJ's business some money.


I'm just commenting on my hypothesis that people pushing coaching, courses or services, may cause detrimental side effects that affect the quality of the community.


If I were to improve this, I'd start with this:

1. No mods selling anything to forum members (again, not because the offers are bad, but just because I think it sets a weird precedent when it's "from the top").
2. No user signatures selling anything or linking to a website selling anything, or linking to a marketplace ad.
3. Post that thread you were thinking about posting. The one that would be valuable to others. Yes you reading this. Let's be a community that learns together. Be a giver, not a taker.


#2 would disincentive some people to post. It could potentially backfire and cause overall quality of forum content to decrease. But it's an idea.



Love you guys. Love this place.


Let's propose solutions, not just point out the problems.

I don't fully agree with this.

(F*** you guys keep making come back there. They pull me back in.)

A senior member should, and probably has a duty to offer some course. They have insight the rest of us don't. Andy's course comes to mind. You can find all of his knowledge in his posts, but he's made it easy and condensed for what I would consider a low fee.

The best investment you can make is in yourself. I even encourage people to take Tai Lopez's sh*tty course. It's $69. Really, what can you lose, except a few hours you would have spent on YouTube.

 

[amp0193]

A senior member should, and probably has a duty to offer some course. They have insight the rest of us don't. Andy's course comes to mind. You can find all of his knowledge in his posts, but he's made it easy and condensed for what I would consider a low fee.

I never have, and still don't have a problem with Andy's content.

I've found it very helpful in the past.


I'm just trying to wrap my head around what I perceive to be a growing culture of people farming this place for leads, and trying to think of things that might possibly help.

Maybe it kicks off a productive conversation instead of a flame war.


I'm ok with being wrong, as long as it gets some ideas flowing on what can be made better.

 

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[Andy Black]

You and Kyle and I will have a call next week. Bump this thread to remind me and I will put it together on Tuesday or Wednesday.

How to lead.

 

[theag]

People turning this place into a content marketing strategy are the reason I barely came here anymore in the last 1-2 years and recently let my INSIDERS membership run out after around 8 years more or less uninterrupted subscription.

This includes "senior members" that I respected a lot in the past. I was especially sad to see that @Kak started a coaching program and podcast. I'm sure its valuable content. I just have a natural aversion against coaches and personal branding.

I also don't buy the "helping people" line that is often used in the copywriting around here. It's bullshit. But it sells.

Last year I joined EO (Entrepreneur's Organization), which helped me a lot to get myself and my business to the next level.

There are three things that make EO so valuable and maybe some of them could be applied to the forum:

1) Vetted members. No tire-kickers, just real business owners with a minimum of 1M revenue and significant ownership in the business. This excludes executive types with no real stake etc.
2) Monthly in-person group meetings with absolute confidentiality. I feel comfortable discussing stuff in my group that I wouldn't share with my family, best friend, girlfriend, wife etc.
3) No self-promotion. Zero-tolerance policy. If you self-promote once you get a warning, second time you're out. No recourse.

Now, 1) and 2) are hard to do in the context of an online forum. But 3) is definitely possible. Completely remove signatures. Disconnect the marketplace ads from normal member profiles and make them advertise normally under their business name instead of native ads. Something like that.

I believe this would lead to people posting because they are intrinsically motivated to, and not to increase their course sales. And raise the overall quality of the forum.

I don't have any illusions that this will happen though, as this forum is a business, not a charity.

And don't get me wrong. It is definitely a nice marketing strategy if you want to get on the thousandaire fastlane as a coach or selling some courses. But it takes away from the spirit of free sharing that made this forum so great.

Personally I've been coming back to this forum more in the last few days and there is still valuable content hidden among a lot of low quality shit and copywriting. I still like to share where I can add value and without expecting anything in return.

Maybe I will start ignoring everybody who uses this forum mainly as a sales channel and see how it feels. I hope the forum quality will improve again. Time will tell.

 

[Kid]

I'm taking a break from this forum. I know no one cares and this post will fall to the wayside.

I haven't established my credibility for various reasons. I'm more-so reflecting on my recent post related to health issues, and I've used this place as a way to vent, tbh.

My biggest gripe is the echo chamber you guys create.

Over the past couple of years, I've watched you drive out people who think differently. Which is ironic because you espouse the outsider mentality.

Instead of saying oh that's interesting, tell me more. You take outcast ideas and bury them, because your one single ideology is correct, and theirs is wrong, and if you disagree you're an idiot. Often times to the point of hypocrisy.

There was a veteran member recently who made a similar post, and had it locked down. Though, I don't agree with his assessment of the people he pointed out.

So I'll repeat what a lot of us are thinking, but not voicing our opinions, because we don't have the badge next to our names:
- There are some senior members who are posturing hypocrites
- There are some senior members who are frauds

(i've talked with a dozen or so people off the forum, and they feel the same way, but won't say anything.)

I won't post names, because I've seen this play out in 3 different threads already. You're not willing to have a conversation. You're only wanting to be right. Good luck.

I'm sorry to hear that. The only thing i can hope for is that its a "break" and not "permanent leave". Good luck to You too.

 

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[ZF Lee]

People turning this place into a content marketing strategy are the reason I barely came here anymore in the last 1-2 years and recently let my INSIDERS membership run out after around 8 years more or less uninterrupted subscription.

This includes "senior members" that I respected a lot in the past. I was especially sad to see that @Kak started a coaching program and podcast. I'm sure its valuable content. I just have a natural aversion against coaches and personal branding.

I also don't buy the "helping people" line that is often used in the copywriting around here. It's bullshit. But it sells.

Last year I joined EO (Entrepreneur's Organization), which helped me a lot to get myself and my business to the next level.

There are three things that make EO so valuable and maybe some of them could be applied to the forum:

1) Vetted members. No tire-kickers, just real business owners with a minimum of 1M revenue and significant ownership in the business. This excludes executive types with no real stake etc.
2) Monthly in-person group meetings with absolute confidentiality. I feel comfortable discussing stuff in my group that I wouldn't share with my family, best friend, girlfriend, wife etc.
3) No self-promotion. Zero-tolerance policy. If you self-promote once you get a warning, second time you're out. No recourse.

Now, 1) and 2) are hard to do in the context of an online forum. But 3) is definitely possible. Completely remove signatures. Disconnect the marketplace ads from normal member profiles and make them advertise normally under their business name instead of native ads. Something like that.

I believe this would lead to people posting because they are intrinsically motivated to, and not to increase their course sales. And raise the overall quality of the forum.

I don't have any illusions that this will happen though, as this forum is a business, not a charity.

And don't get me wrong. It is definitely a nice marketing strategy if you want to get on the thousandaire fastlane as a coach or selling some courses. But it takes away from the spirit of free sharing that made this forum so great.

Personally I've been coming back to this forum more in the last few days and there is still valuable content hidden among a lot of low quality shit and copywriting. I still like to share where I can add value and without expecting anything in return.

Maybe I will start ignoring everybody who uses this forum mainly as a sales channel and see how it feels. I hope the forum quality will improve again. Time will tell.

Thanks for coming back, @theag.

Probably we need folks like you with a big stick again here.

TFLF will always be an exclusive watercooler for me, where...I'd just like to talk with Fastlane folks on a regular basis. Like a lounge bar, if you will.

Good that you decided to hop onto EO!
I've also bookmarked my Malaysian EO on my networking bucket-list, after getting burnt out by one too many shitty fake-a$$ groups on Meetup or other places. Needs a regular fee to pay up though- so I'd have to just make more sales haha.

I'm taking a break from this forum. I know no one cares and this post will fall to the wayside.

I haven't established my credibility for various reasons. I'm more-so reflecting on my recent post related to health issues, and I've used this place as a way to vent, tbh.

My biggest gripe is the echo chamber you guys create.

Over the past couple of years, I've watched you drive out people who think differently. Which is ironic because you espouse the outsider mentality.

Instead of saying oh that's interesting, tell me more. You take outcast ideas and bury them, because your one single ideology is correct, and theirs is wrong, and if you disagree you're an idiot. Often times to the point of hypocrisy.

There was a veteran member recently who made a similar post, and had it locked down. Though, I don't agree with his assessment of the people he pointed out.

So I'll repeat what a lot of us are thinking, but not voicing our opinions, because we don't have the badge next to our names:
- There are some senior members who are posturing hypocrites
- There are some senior members who are frauds

(i've talked with a dozen or so people off the forum, and they feel the same way, but won't say anything.)

I won't post names, because I've seen this play out in 3 different threads already. You're not willing to have a conversation. You're only wanting to be right. Good luck.

No, we do care.

Yeah...sometimes I wonder what's the difference between an echo chamber, and a positive identity/influence that helps everyone.

You may be surprised that there's lots of silent Fastlaners who do read the whacky posts, and take something home to improve their lives with.

Still, I regret that I haven't spoken up much often. Not to give an opinion, but to simply ask, 'Oh, that's interesting. Tell me more...'

It is by candid discussion that we find the truth to lead us to tomorrow.

Take the break you need. I hope you can return a lot more fresher, and stronger.

 

[Vigilante]

People turning this place into a content marketing strategy are the reason I barely came here anymore in the last 1-2 years and recently let my INSIDERS membership run out after around 8 years more or less uninterrupted subscription.

This includes "senior members" that I respected a lot in the past. I was especially sad to see that @Kak started a coaching program and podcast. I'm sure its valuable content. I just have a natural aversion against coaches and personal branding.

I also don't buy the "helping people" line that is often used in the copywriting around here. It's bullshit. But it sells.

Last year I joined EO (Entrepreneur's Organization), which helped me a lot to get myself and my business to the next level.

There are three things that make EO so valuable and maybe some of them could be applied to the forum:

1) Vetted members. No tire-kickers, just real business owners with a minimum of 1M revenue and significant ownership in the business. This excludes executive types with no real stake etc.
2) Monthly in-person group meetings with absolute confidentiality. I feel comfortable discussing stuff in my group that I wouldn't share with my family, best friend, girlfriend, wife etc.
3) No self-promotion. Zero-tolerance policy. If you self-promote once you get a warning, second time you're out. No recourse.

Now, 1) and 2) are hard to do in the context of an online forum. But 3) is definitely possible. Completely remove signatures. Disconnect the marketplace ads from normal member profiles and make them advertise normally under their business name instead of native ads. Something like that.

I believe this would lead to people posting because they are intrinsically motivated to, and not to increase their course sales. And raise the overall quality of the forum.

I don't have any illusions that this will happen though, as this forum is a business, not a charity.

And don't get me wrong. It is definitely a nice marketing strategy if you want to get on the thousandaire fastlane as a coach or selling some courses. But it takes away from the spirit of free sharing that made this forum so great.

Personally I've been coming back to this forum more in the last few days and there is still valuable content hidden among a lot of low quality shit and copywriting. I still like to share where I can add value and without expecting anything in return.

Maybe I will start ignoring everybody who uses this forum mainly as a sales channel and see how it feels. I hope the forum quality will improve again. Time will tell.

I was wondering where the hell you've been.

 

[Vigilante]

As you know, I've not sold and am not interested in selling anyone anything. But I can tell you, you see an absence of the "old school" here and that could include you, AG, and a host of old school contributors that tend to ebb and flow, but eventually drift off.

I’m sorry I asked you all to listen to my new radio venture that some of you asked me to resurrect. I can see now how inappropriate that was to tell you about what I was working on.

The commonality there is the ROI of time ends up not being worth it. Not talking at all from a monetary aspect, but from a return on investment of time aspect.

Andy feeds off of helping people. When people use that to SHIT on him, you saw him drift away and we pulled him back.

Kyle? Makes almost zero coaching people. The only reason to charge ANYTHING is because they have skin in the game. If anyone out there in cyber space thinks ANY of Kyle's interactions with the forum have a profit motive, you would have no idea what you are talking about (unless your business is in selling rare liquid manufacturing chemicals, in which case he's be interested)

MJ? The amount of cash MJ makes selling ads here probably pays enough to pay his hosting fees. I am sure he makes some money on the INSIDERS memberships, but that's because we ALL ASKED HIM TO DO IT and the cost of that is probably 5% of what an EO membership costs (and heck, maybe because it's worth less than an EO membership) but that's beside the point.

People begrudge Lex for sponsoring the site and paying for an ad? Lets kick Lex off. Then nobody pays for an ad. Is it OK if Kenric has a class, but not Mike Partee? We want to now pick who advertises? Lex, a guy that was HOMELESS? Kung Fu Steve, a guy that was HOMELESS and now is a nationally sponsored motivational speaker? Let's make an approved list, and give it to MJ.

There's a new generation here that has their hand out, not looking for a hand up. And I can say that, because I have never asked nor taken a single dollar from the forum. If people don't want people like Kyle to share the details of his excitement and learning while he transparently builds a podcast, for free, from scratch... I guess there's a whole generation of people that will drift away or get pushed away because their sharing has to fit a "mold."

The Karens here got their panties all in a wad at me on ideological lines, for which I personally care zero. I am actually amused by it, but it has served MJ a disservice by feeding an undercurrent. I've never been interested in a popularity contest, but you can say all kinds of negative shit about me and I am supposed to just take it or else I am an elitist. This place was always an OASIS from the rest of the F*cking crazy on the internet, and in 2020 it has BECOME the rest of the internet.

Let's set the new rules, so people understand them :
1. no progress threads that highlight for-profit businesses. 501(c)(3) discussions are OK.
2. no advertisements. This is a community, not a business. If we wanted to financially support something, there's PLENTY of other places to do that. This place was intended to run at a loss.
3. no offering to monetize your experience even if people want to buy it. Unless, you're on the list of people that can.
4. no self promotion, which includes no talking about any outside ventures, even in an illustrative way
5. no self aggrandizement, but self depreciation is appreciated. No talking about past successes because that is kind of braggy and those without success might not feel welcome.
6. mods can't sell anything (LOL)

Add to the list anything that I have missed.

I have some commitments to MJ that I intend to keep (and they're not monetary, Karens). But when I wrap those up, hopefully the 10,000 posts that I have written will become part of the searchable history of this great institution, and hopefully MJ gives enough of a shit to pay the bills and play to the crowd long enough for the next wave of hopefuls to arrive.

Some of the posters that have taken up swords in the name of PC have traditionally been the people that I most looked forward to reading, and as such there's not much of a reason to continue to invest here. The inmates can run the asylum until MJ decides he's had enough. For me, it's not worth opening the forum on an almost daily basis now to see someone taking shots at me and people I care about simply because they want to get off on it. I don't need it. Most of us don't. Somehow it morphed from a place to exchange ideas into a place to trade barbs and try and tear things down. People empowered by a statue being torn down in a park want to extend that crowd hysteria towards cyber bullyism and keyboard jockeys now get their covid-inspired claustrophibia out by tearing other people down. I'm not interested.

I offer no defense for what I have contributed here. This thread will die a slow painful death, but many of the things we have all added here over the years will be discoverable to those who come behind us as long as someone keeps the lights on. That was all it was ever about.

 

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[ZCP]

CHALLENGE to everyone that says the place is becoming spammy ......

Post valuable content at the level @Vigilante and @Andy Black do.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm on both sides of the curtain at the moment..... trying to post valuable content to the community I love and jumping in to help however I can busting spam and cleaning up the 100's of bots.

I see how hard these two work as mods behind the scenes. I also see the place starting to look spammy like @amp0193 said with the recent 'everyone is a coach'.....

With every perspective, there is another. So think about this ..... @MJ DeMarco started a community for us to all flourish. Maintaining that garden is work. He has had some awesome people help and they post a hell of a lot of content without asking for much in return. Maybe we should support them and thank them by seeking them out and supporting THEIR businesses whether they ask for it or not. Give them a shout out on their radio show. Help them review their products like back in the day. How many solid contributors on this forum have you seeked out to support their business? Make that answer be more than zero! Let's all grow together!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Back to the issue at hand: see more ads than content?
Want it to change ..... how about less dialog and more content? Be the solution!

Get off your asses and get in here and post and help make this forum what you see it should be.

 

[Fox]

I was especially sad to see that @Kak started a coaching program and podcast. I'm sure its valuable content. I just have a natural aversion against coaches and personal branding.

Last year I joined EO (Entrepreneur's Organization), which helped me a lot to get myself and my business to the next level.

So free podcast from a member you used to like - bad
5k membership/coaching/mastermind to help your business - good

Can you explain the logic here?

What if Entrepreneur's Organization ran ads somewhere to attract new members. You said it helped your business but if they run ads or give out free content are they now spammy?

(a quick look on their IG shows they run a bunch of free webinars)

What if KAK's podcast cost 5k to listen to - now it's all good?

Since you didn't even listen to Kaks podcast or take his coaching what is the policy here?

 

[sparechange]

I had no idea what EO was, looked into it...there's a virtual meeting in Vancouver next month.

Joining fees are about 3k+ Yikes! No thanks!

 

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[Kevin88660]

I had no idea what EO was, looked into it...there's a virtual meeting in Vancouver next month.

Joining fees are about 3k+ Yikes! No thanks!

Wow...There is “free” lunch.

 

[theag]

So free podcast from a member you used to like - bad
5k membership/coaching/mastermind to help your business - good

Can you explain the logic here?

What if Entrepreneur's Organization ran ads somewhere to attract new members. You said it helped your business but if they run ads or give out free content are they now spammy?

(a quick look on their IG shows they run a bunch of free webinars)

What if KAK's podcast cost 5k to listen to - now it's all good?

Since you didn't even listen to Kaks podcast or take his coaching what is the policy here?

You have an interesting level of reading comprehension. Either that or a bad attempt at a straw man.

First of all, I probably shouldn't have mentioned the podcast. I have zero issues with that and plan to listen to it.

I never said that a free podcast is bad. I said its probably valuable content, but I was sad to see that he is now also doing it. You even quoted me.

Also, I never said that paid = good. I actually feel quite the opposite way. This forum is free (I don't really count the modest INSIDERS fee) and has been more valuable to me than my EO membership. But most of the value came from the discussions that I had here before the content marketing and course trend started and which now makes up for a lot of the "noise" here.

I only picked @Kak as an example in my post because his coaching program launch was kind of a tipping point for me. I specifically don't see his program as a big part of this content marketing trend here. Probably because its the only program thats truly aligned with the fastlane philosophy (at least in my interpretation). He is still my favorite poster on here, along with @Vigilante, and I have a lot of respect for him.

Actually, I learned about EO from one of Kak's post a few years ago, so I have him to thank for that. I'm not here to advocate for them. I just mentioned how their core rules make it so valuable for members.

The reason why I hold @Kak in such high regard, is that he always cared about the big picture, big deals, real business, generational wealth and security. Launching a coaching program is, at least in my eyes, the polar opposite to that. I'm pretty sure that he is the only one doing it out of "selfless passion" and for fun instead of needing the money, so it is probably the worst example. But like I said, for me it was kind of a tipping point. I will discuss the rest of it with him personally, but I was already very glad to see in his message to me, that he still has the "your perception doesn't change my reality mindset".

Your courses are actually a much better example of what I don't like about the changed direction of the forum.

When I started on this forum, one of my first progress threads was about a web design business. The feedback back then was that it is a waste of time, trading time for money, over-satured and "not-fastlane". That was years ago and all true.

Now being a web designer, copywriter, and other freelancing activities is actively promoted here. A lot of the forum content changed from building a millionaire business fastlane to a thousandaire freelancing fastlane. I remember years ago this "thousandaire fastlane" stuff was kind of a running gag around here. Not anymore.

Like I said in my previous post, as a marketer myself, I get the appeal. It is an underused and therefore profitable channel.

I don't see how you are even remotely comparing this to EO or anybody else running ads on FB, IG, or wherever. Nobody says advertising or content marketing is bad.

I just think that it hurts the value of this place in the long term. For me this was always a community for the free exchange of ideas with like-minded entrepreneurs at eye-level. If the self-promotion gets to a level where more people stay away because they don't like the direction and get replaced by money-chasing freelancers, those discussions will get hurt.

But hey, maybe I just see it that way because I'm not your target audience. Which seems to be young gullible guys interested in both making money and fitness, as demonstrated by the latest fitness video on your webdesign channel. Sorry, but I just can't take bro marketers seriously.

 

[Kevin88660]

You have an interesting level of reading comprehension. Either that or a bad attempt at a straw man.

First of all, I probably shouldn't have mentioned the podcast. I have zero issues with that and plan to listen to it.

I never said that a free podcast is bad. I said its probably valuable content, but I was sad to see that he is now also doing it. You even quoted me.

Also, I never said that paid = good. I actually feel quite the opposite way. This forum is free (I don't really count the modest INSIDERS fee) and has been more valuable to me than my EO membership. But most of the value came from the discussions that I had here before the content marketing and course trend started and which now makes up for a lot of the "noise" here.

I only picked @Kak as an example in my post because his coaching program launch was kind of a tipping point for me. I specifically don't see his program as a big part of this content marketing trend here. Probably because its the only program thats truly aligned with the fastlane philosophy (at least in my interpretation). He is still my favorite poster on here, along with @Vigilante, and I have a lot of respect for him.

Actually, I learned about EO from one of Kak's post a few years ago, so I have him to thank for that. I'm not here to advocate for them. I just mentioned how their core rules make it so valuable for members.

The reason why I hold @Kak in such high regard, is that he always cared about the big picture, big deals, real business, generational wealth and security. Launching a coaching program is, at least in my eyes, the polar opposite to that. I'm pretty sure that he is the only one doing it out of "selfless passion" and for fun instead of needing the money, so it is probably the worst example. But like I said, for me it was kind of a tipping point. I will discuss the rest of it with him personally, but I was already very glad to see in his message to me, that he still has the "your perception doesn't change my reality mindset".

Your courses are actually a much better example of what I don't like about the changed direction of the forum.

When I started on this forum, one of my first progress threads was about a web design business. The feedback back then was that it is a waste of time, trading time for money, over-satured and "not-fastlane". That was years ago and all true.

Now being a web designer, copywriter, and other freelancing activities is actively promoted here. A lot of the forum content changed from building a millionaire business fastlane to a thousandaire freelancing fastlane. I remember years ago this "thousandaire fastlane" stuff was kind of a running gag around here. Not anymore.

Like I said in my previous post, as a marketer myself, I get the appeal. It is an underused and therefore profitable channel.

I don't see how you are even remotely comparing this to EO or anybody else running ads on FB, IG, or wherever. Nobody says advertising or content marketing is bad.

I just think that it hurts the value of this place in the long term. For me this was always a community for the free exchange of ideas with like-minded entrepreneurs at eye-level. If the self-promotion gets to a level where more people stay away because they don't like the direction and get replaced by money-chasing freelancers, those discussions will get hurt.

But hey, maybe I just see it that way because I'm not your target audience. Which seems to be young gullible guys interested in both making money and fitness, as demonstrated by the latest fitness video on your webdesign channel. Sorry, but I just can't take bro marketers seriously.

Translation: This place is not as high class as EO.

 

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[theag]

Translation: This place is not as high class as EO.

I never said that. Another straw man.

 

[Vigilante]

Translation: This place is not as high class as EO.

In fairness. Apples and oranges.

They coexist with two completely different purposes.

but obviously with a different priority and a different fee structure it would be natural for them to have some pretty significant in different regulations about conduct and advertising and promotion.

Pretty sure if everybody paid five grand to post here MJ would overnight implement a no advertising policy.

That whole angle probably should be dropped as it really isn’t relevant.

 

[Kevin88660]

I think it is not difficult to find information closer to “fastlane frameworks” such as online content creation business and saas info here.

There are many other things discussed here that are not strictly fastlane. Investment-wall street slowlane. Men’s Room, Rant and gov conspiracies-totally irrelevant.

Using this forum is like choosing a menu, you do not have to order the food you do not like. There are specific threads created for self-promotion.

It is interesting that Theag finds self-promotion and the increasing number of freelancers who exchange time for money here, mostly disturbing.

 

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[Fox]

One minute:

I was especially sad to see that @Kak started a coaching program and podcast.

Me: "What is wrong with Kaks podcast?"

Then:

First of all, I probably shouldn't have mentioned the podcast. I have zero issues with that and plan to listen to it.

And for me:

You have an interesting level of reading comprehension.

It isn't a strawman argument to ask you what your issue is about something you literally just said you have an issue with lol.

Maybe ease up on lashing out on everyone. First kak, then Lex, now me.

It is cool you come back in from the exclusive 5k private club to attack all the people who respond to and help people here all day long though. Sorry there was an ad and a free podcast on the way back in.

I guess the 5k you don't pay here means a few members who promote things in a section of the forum made for promoting things. My bad for sponsoring a forum I love instead of giving money to zucker.

Let me figure out the 5-minute detective work though:
- I got a video on 75 hard on my Youtube channel
- The same challenge I failed 16 times over a year ago and never made a video on then
- Or which I never made a video on when the 75 hard thread got 100k+ views and dozens of new members to join here
- But that I now make a video on restarting it over a year later after I admit I felt terrible after corona
- Which is also the only non-web design video I have posted on YT in over 3 years
- The same channel with no coaching linked, no webinars, no products etc

... and that is bro marketing?

10/10 for making up something out of thin air there. But ya me asking you to explain something you just said is the strawman argument hahahaha.

If you can't see how much of a half-assed smear job that is then best of luck.
The problem is 100% with you on this one.

(Also no mentioned of the dozens of students on here I have helped quit jobs, move locations, make money, get started towards bigger Fastlane businesses etc.)

Nah, cherry-pick those "facts" for maximum effect.

---

I would suggest taking a look at why you feel this way about this now.
Is the problem really with one or two ads or a podcast or could it be on your side?

I actually genuinely wanted to hear some thoughts on what suggestions people have.
If you want to reach out and talk normally I am open to it.

 

[Kid]

Wanna 1 day, 10% ROI tip?
Buy facebook. They are in panic sell right now
Why Facebook Stock Just Dropped 6.5% | The Motley Fool

 

[Kid]

You have an interesting level of reading comprehension. Either that or a bad attempt at a straw man.

First of all, I probably shouldn't have mentioned the podcast. I have zero issues with that and plan to listen to it.

I never said that a free podcast is bad. I said its probably valuable content, but I was sad to see that he is now also doing it. You even quoted me.

Also, I never said that paid = good. I actually feel quite the opposite way. This forum is free (I don't really count the modest INSIDERS fee) and has been more valuable to me than my EO membership. But most of the value came from the discussions that I had here before the content marketing and course trend started and which now makes up for a lot of the "noise" here.

I only picked @Kak as an example in my post because his coaching program launch was kind of a tipping point for me. I specifically don't see his program as a big part of this content marketing trend here. Probably because its the only program thats truly aligned with the fastlane philosophy (at least in my interpretation). He is still my favorite poster on here, along with @Vigilante, and I have a lot of respect for him.

Actually, I learned about EO from one of Kak's post a few years ago, so I have him to thank for that. I'm not here to advocate for them. I just mentioned how their core rules make it so valuable for members.

The reason why I hold @Kak in such high regard, is that he always cared about the big picture, big deals, real business, generational wealth and security. Launching a coaching program is, at least in my eyes, the polar opposite to that. I'm pretty sure that he is the only one doing it out of "selfless passion" and for fun instead of needing the money, so it is probably the worst example. But like I said, for me it was kind of a tipping point. I will discuss the rest of it with him personally, but I was already very glad to see in his message to me, that he still has the "your perception doesn't change my reality mindset".

Your courses are actually a much better example of what I don't like about the changed direction of the forum.

When I started on this forum, one of my first progress threads was about a web design business. The feedback back then was that it is a waste of time, trading time for money, over-satured and "not-fastlane". That was years ago and all true.

Now being a web designer, copywriter, and other freelancing activities is actively promoted here. A lot of the forum content changed from building a millionaire business fastlane to a thousandaire freelancing fastlane. I remember years ago this "thousandaire fastlane" stuff was kind of a running gag around here. Not anymore.

Like I said in my previous post, as a marketer myself, I get the appeal. It is an underused and therefore profitable channel.

I don't see how you are even remotely comparing this to EO or anybody else running ads on FB, IG, or wherever. Nobody says advertising or content marketing is bad.

I just think that it hurts the value of this place in the long term. For me this was always a community for the free exchange of ideas with like-minded entrepreneurs at eye-level. If the self-promotion gets to a level where more people stay away because they don't like the direction and get replaced by money-chasing freelancers, those discussions will get hurt.

But hey, maybe I just see it that way because I'm not your target audience. Which seems to be young gullible guys interested in both making money and fitness, as demonstrated by the latest fitness video on your webdesign channel. Sorry, but I just can't take bro marketers seriously.

So now you are paying for echo chamber. Congrats.

 

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[MJ DeMarco]

ow being a web designer, copywriter, and other freelancing activities is actively promoted here. A lot of the forum content changed from building a millionaire business fastlane to a thousandaire freelancing fastlane. I remember years ago this "thousandaire fastlane" stuff was kind of a running gag around here.

Sounds like you are reading your own press clippings, worshiping your reflection in the mirror.

This forum has three distinct groups.

1. I have no money and don't know where to start <-- freelancing, hustles, "thousandaire fastlane" might appeal to them.
2. I have a small business that I'd like to make Fastlane, but aren't interested in employing 50 people and being the next Jeff Bezos. I just want to be FREE. I don't need no Lambo!
3. I have a business and would like to blow it up huge. Perhaps, become the next 9 figure millionaire, or better, billionaire. I'm starting a global enterprise.

You have an issue with 1 and 2 when the fact is, most people arrive here at #1, and most people want #2. Hell, I fall into #2.

But you're sad that you're commingling with the lowly 1s and 2s.

Many of the coaching gigs are for these two subgroups, #1 and #2 ... I'd say Kak's thing is for 2, mostly 3.

I got my start as a web designer, a program that Fox is offering -- so it fits as a start for someone with no experience. I also know, having been here for over a decade, that getting started is the hardest.

Your concerns are noted, in summary: All of us should work for free and the expectation of any kind of return, even after making 10,000 posts, is bad for the forum. That's why I spent $5K on another forum. And if you're not working to build the next billion dollar unicorn and a front page spread on TechCrunch, then everything else is noise, damn those plebs struggling to make their first buck.

 

[Lex DeVille]

You have an interesting level of reading comprehension. Either that or a bad attempt at a straw man.

First of all, I probably shouldn't have mentioned the podcast. I have zero issues with that and plan to listen to it.

I never said that a free podcast is bad. I said its probably valuable content, but I was sad to see that he is now also doing it. You even quoted me.

Also, I never said that paid = good. I actually feel quite the opposite way. This forum is free (I don't really count the modest INSIDERS fee) and has been more valuable to me than my EO membership. But most of the value came from the discussions that I had here before the content marketing and course trend started and which now makes up for a lot of the "noise" here.

I only picked @Kak as an example in my post because his coaching program launch was kind of a tipping point for me. I specifically don't see his program as a big part of this content marketing trend here. Probably because its the only program thats truly aligned with the fastlane philosophy (at least in my interpretation). He is still my favorite poster on here, along with @Vigilante, and I have a lot of respect for him.

Actually, I learned about EO from one of Kak's post a few years ago, so I have him to thank for that. I'm not here to advocate for them. I just mentioned how their core rules make it so valuable for members.

The reason why I hold @Kak in such high regard, is that he always cared about the big picture, big deals, real business, generational wealth and security. Launching a coaching program is, at least in my eyes, the polar opposite to that. I'm pretty sure that he is the only one doing it out of "selfless passion" and for fun instead of needing the money, so it is probably the worst example. But like I said, for me it was kind of a tipping point. I will discuss the rest of it with him personally, but I was already very glad to see in his message to me, that he still has the "your perception doesn't change my reality mindset".

Your courses are actually a much better example of what I don't like about the changed direction of the forum.

When I started on this forum, one of my first progress threads was about a web design business. The feedback back then was that it is a waste of time, trading time for money, over-satured and "not-fastlane". That was years ago and all true.

Now being a web designer, copywriter, and other freelancing activities is actively promoted here. A lot of the forum content changed from building a millionaire business fastlane to a thousandaire freelancing fastlane. I remember years ago this "thousandaire fastlane" stuff was kind of a running gag around here. Not anymore.

Like I said in my previous post, as a marketer myself, I get the appeal. It is an underused and therefore profitable channel.

I don't see how you are even remotely comparing this to EO or anybody else running ads on FB, IG, or wherever. Nobody says advertising or content marketing is bad.

I just think that it hurts the value of this place in the long term. For me this was always a community for the free exchange of ideas with like-minded entrepreneurs at eye-level. If the self-promotion gets to a level where more people stay away because they don't like the direction and get replaced by money-chasing freelancers, those discussions will get hurt.

But hey, maybe I just see it that way because I'm not your target audience. Which seems to be young gullible guys interested in both making money and fitness, as demonstrated by the latest fitness video on your webdesign channel. Sorry, but I just can't take bro marketers seriously.

To me it seems like you and a few others are finding a disconnect between your personal definition of "fastlane" and what it means for others. The result of the mismatch is frustration with the forum and the people and posts on it because you're not finding content focused on what you believe this forum should be about.

This forum has had side-hustles for as long as I've been here, including freelancing. People didn't take freelancing as seriously in the past, but then some people started making money with it and others decided to give it a go. That also happened with other side-hustles prior to the freelance uprising.

Regardless of whether people freelance as a side-hustle or as their primary business, who are you to decide that freelancing, or coaching or any other path isn't fastlane for anyone who chooses to go that route if that is what they have decided is right for them?

When I signed up for the forum, there wasn't an agreement checkbox that said "fastlane means million dollar business." The tagline of the forum is "Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Entrepreneurship." The book is called "The Millionaire Fastlane ." The forum is not.

I joined the forum to be around other people building businesses. There was no specific dollar amount tied to the idea of a "fastlane" business in my mind. To me it always meant the freedom to do what you want how you want when you want. But that is only my definition and won't be what everyone expects, as you've already demonstrated.

I have seen the shift you're describing with an increase in people being interested in freelancing. What I haven't seen is reason to believe that freelancing is less "fastlane" than building a million-dollar business. That seems to be what you want from people on this forum. But that doesn't mean it's what everyone is here for.

The world is not static. The Fastlane Forum doesn't exist in a vacuum. Change is the only constant, and you can be part of that change, and help guide it, or you can watch it from the sideline while others guide it and complain when things change away from the way you believe they should be (which is how I am perceiving your current actions).

MJ's books do not target only people who want to be millionaires. They target people of all demographics and backgrounds. Unscripted seems to be in particular favor with working-class people who are often satisfied in life with having enough money to pay their bills without being tied to a cubical in an office under a middle-class manager.

Since freelancing is a step away from that, it seems natural that there would be an increase in interest in this area, especially when companies like Upwork are running commercial ads across television, YouTube, Facebook, Google and more.

My point is, people come here from all walks of life with all sorts of ideas about business and "fastlane." They go to the posts they see first. Then they make their way to other GOLD and NOTABLE threads on recommendation by forum members. Since the freelance landscape has changed and a lot of people are interested in it, the topic is in focus.

If you want people to focus on building big businesses, and you want there to be more content like that, then you need to be involved in posting about those things on the forum, and recommending big business threads. Otherwise people will see what they see.

 

[Fox]

When I started on this forum, one of my first progress threads was about a web design business. The feedback back then was that it is a waste of time, trading time for money, over-satured and "not-fastlane". That was years ago and all true.

That isn't what happened...

WEB/DIGITAL - My fastlane: web services for local businesses

:inpain:

www.thefastlaneforum.com

You got a lot of support and people trying to help.

You removed your own posts but the majority of comments were helpful and supporting you with this direction.

Your own post wrapping up that thread...

I didn't pursue this business further. Main reason was a lack of resources and those local business customers are a pain in the a$$ to deal with.

The "fastlane product" of this whole thing, which I mentioned in the first post, was a pretty good idea though, but hard to execute for me due to technical nature.

The basic idea was to provide a single SaaS solution for local businesses to update their information everywhere in directories etc, and expand that with other marketing related SaaS products/services.

I found out a year ago or so that some others guys did execute this and came out with it a couple months after I quit the idea. They are pretty successful and most likely already valued in the low-mid 8 figure range, with Germany's biggest internet company as a strategic investor onboard (=semi-exit). https://uberall.com/en/

I'm running a successful ecommerce business now and will expand into other businesses this year, so I dont feel too bad about it.

Looking back at this thread, I really lived a crap life 4 years ago. Thankfully the constant hustling finally paid off and I'm in a much better place now.

Okay, web design isn't where you are now but it did get you started.

Yet now it is not even suitable for others to use for a while to get started with?

I just don't see the logic.
Only a strong personal agenda to throw whoever calls you out under the bus.

 

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[Vigilante]

Wanna 1 day, 10% ROI tip?
Buy facebook. They are in panic sell right now
Why Facebook Stock Just Dropped 6.5% | The Motley Fool

I’m game. I’ll get in on Monday.

 

[theag]

It isn't a strawman argument to ask you what your issue is about something you literally just said you have an issue with lol.

You are putting words in my mouth. I never said that the podcast is bad. But this discussion about it is a circle jerk.

exclusive 5k private club

5k

Joining fees are about 3k+ Yikes! No thanks!

So now you are paying for echo chamber. Congrats.

It's interesting that suddenly everything revolves about the EO membership fee, when the main point of my post was that their strict rules make it so valuable.

To me it seems like you and a few others are finding a disconnect between your personal definition of "fastlane" and what it means for others.

Thats a pretty good post.

Yes. We have a fundamentally different definition. I'm using the definition from the original Fastlane book, which seems sensible, because this forum is based on and named after it. Here's a reminder:

The Fastlane is about creating large sums of wealth rapidly and beyond the confines of “middle class.”

Sounds pretty clear to me. And last I checked this forum is still called "The Fastlane Forum". So it's not a stretch to expect this mindset here. But it seems like I lost touch with the forum consensus.

Only a strong personal agenda to throw however calls you out under the bus.

Not really. I like to kick the hornets nest sometimes, but I think we are actually having a good discussion about this now.

Is the problem really with one or two ads or a podcast or could it be on your side?

It's both. Probably more the disconnect that @Lex DeVille described. But the problem on my side is easy to solve: I just go back to my exclusive high class 5k EO private echo chamber safe zone.

That would be the easy way. But I actually care about this forum because it has given me a lot, so I'll try to do my part with valuable posts in the future. I believe its possible to achieve a balance here that doesn't drive the "old school" members away.

I only felt like speaking up when I saw @AgainstAllOdds posts about it getting shot down rather quickly.