On Friendship

[Mammoth]

Very often in the self-development world when it comes to friendship, you hear things such as:
"If you lay down with dogs, you wake up with fleas" and "You're the average of the 6 people you spend the most time with".

The mainstream advice seems to say that you need to drop all of your non-successful friends and find successful friends if you want to get ahead in life.

To what extreme must one take this to? Do you just cut contact with any of your friends that doesn't fit the mold of successful and ambitious? Or limit contact and time spent with them but remain friends?

I have a few friends that I've literally been to hell and back with (if you've worked outside in winter in Saskatchewan, you know what hell is) that would do anything for me and I'd do the same for them and they've always been there for me when I needed their help. They just have different life goals from myself. They don't talk mine down.

One other thing I need to address is my willingness to take on new friends. I've always had a small core group and I don't open up and take on new friends very often. I know that networking is important and a great thread here outlines how golf is a good way to get out there and meet people. I've got a set of clubs now and will get out there once everything opens back up. I'm also going to find my local Toastmasters and link up with them as well.

My main question for the more experienced people here on the forum is:
Do you have to be ruthless in this process in order to get where you want? Or is there a middle ground where you can keep those loyal friends in your life?

 

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[Silverfox148]

Interesting question, I have been down this road myself.

The first thing you must know is yourself and then you can decide on what you truly want. This isn't as easy as it sounds, but it will help you get on the right path. I personally value friendships/family more than money.

 

[Rabby]

No, you don't have to throw your friends away. But you do (probably) need to find people who understand what you're doing, to balance the influence. If you only talk to unmotivated, sidewalking people, you're going to have a hard time being motivated and business oriented.

I have friends who I've known since grade school. The wealth gap is significant and grows by the year, but they are no less friends. A few of them have even started to catch on, and wonder if the whole "business" thing might not be a scam after all.

 

[alexkuzmov]

Very often in the self-development world when it comes to friendship, you hear things such as:
"If you lay down with dogs, you wake up with fleas" and "You're the average of the 6 people you spend the most time with".

The mainstream advice seems to say that you need to drop all of your non-successful friends and find successful friends if you want to get ahead in life.

To what extreme must one take this to? Do you just cut contact with any of your friends that doesn't fit the mold of successful and ambitious? Or limit contact and time spent with them but remain friends?

I have a few friends that I've literally been to hell and back with (if you've worked outside in winter in Saskatchewan, you know what hell is) that would do anything for me and I'd do the same for them and they've always been there for me when I needed their help. They just have different life goals from myself. They don't talk mine down.

One other thing I need to address is my willingness to take on new friends. I've always had a small core group and I don't open up and take on new friends very often. I know that networking is important and a great thread here outlines how golf is a good way to get out there and meet people. I've got a set of clubs now and will get out there once everything opens back up. I'm also going to find my local Toastmasters and link up with them as well.

My main question for the more experienced people here on the forum is:
Do you have to be ruthless in this process in order to get where you want? Or is there a middle ground where you can keep those loyal friends in your life?

You have to be somewhat ruthless in order to get where you want, wherever that is.
That doesnt mean stepping over people and cutting all friends, who dont help you, from your life.
The successful people you surround yourself with and spend time with, dont have to be your friends.
Also there might be friends which you need to cut from you life.
There is alot of gray area which you need to consider.

Your friends are like you and you are like your friends.
Thats how it works when it comes to friendship, like attracts like.
Its why you are friends in the first place and it makes sense that you rub off on each other.

One of the problems with that comes when you go through an identity change/shift.
Maybe you had your FTE, maybe a close person/friend died, maybe you had a near death experience or just maybe you changed because you found something that you really like and just kept doing it until it became part of your identity.
Identity is plastic, it changes.
It can change so much that you will no longer be like your friends.
But did anything change in your relations? Did they do something bad to you? Betray you?
Most likely, not.
Acknowledge the change in your identity and move on with your life by altering your social circle.
You dont have to cut the person from your life and there is nothing wrong with seeing each other from time to time.

Surrounding yourself with successful people can be done in many many ways.
They will not replace your friends and you dont need to befriend them.
Also the other BS is the number of people which "average" you.
At any given moment there is only ONE person who has the highest amount of influence on you.
Not 5, 6 or any other BS number, just ONE.
You`ll know the person and as soon as you read the word ONE, you`ll think of that person immediately.
That person can be a friend, parent, grandparent, boss, online persona, book author, politician, guru of some sort etc.
And that person changes for you or more accuratly, you change them.
You swap them for someone else.
All you need to do is find the person who will influence you in the direction where you want to go and swap when the time comes.

Hope this helps.

 

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[Bobby_italy]

Yeah let's drop some long time friends because they're "sidewalkers"...
This is how you run into social problems down the line, in my honest opinion as long as someone is positive I have no interest in closing a relationship and they can be the best entrepeneur "fastlaner" on this planet but if they are constantly negative towards me I'll just stop interacting.

So to cut it short if they ruin your quality of life get rid anyway, if you like them keep them around even if they are complete losers.
I really dislike the fact that many are looking for friends to jumpstart their success like wtf where is your dignity?
Don't mistake NETWORKING for FRIENDS, they may eventually turn into friends but when you'll be in trouble they won't raise a finger while your loser friend will have your back and have you sleeping over with no problem(just an example).

I used to give a little speech to my friends who's highest aspiration was to find a job with barely minimum wage, now I don't care, if it makes you happy earning money while flipping burgers who am I to judge you or give any kind of unnecessary advice?
If people want to be "saved" from their sidewalker lifestyle they can ask you until then stfu and leave business out of the talk, I know it's really difficult for some people but you have to understand that it doesn't appeal to everyone and that shouldn't determine wheter they can be friends or not.

 

[Rabby]

Yeah let's drop some long time friends because they're "sidewalkers"...
This is how you run into social problems down the line, in my honest opinion as long as someone is positive I have no interest in closing a relationship and they can be the best entrepeneur "fastlaner" on this planet but if they are constantly negative towards me I'll just stop interacting.

So to cut it short if they ruin your quality of life get rid anyway, if you like them keep them around even if they are complete losers.
I really dislike the fact that many are looking for friends to jumpstart their success like wtf where is your dignity?
Don't mistake NETWORKING for FRIENDS, they may eventually turn into friends but when you'll be in trouble they won't raise a finger while your loser friend will have your back and have you sleeping over with no problem(just an example).

I used to give a little speech to my friends who's highest aspiration was to find a job with barely minimum wage, now I don't care, if it makes you happy earning money while flipping burgers who am I to judge you or give any kind of unnecessary advice?
If people want to be "saved" from their sidewalker lifestyle they can ask you until then stfu and leave business out of the talk, I know it's really difficult for some people but you have to understand that it doesn't appeal to everyone and that shouldn't determine wheter they can be friends or not.

I agree with this, but also love it because it's the "salty" version.

 

[Andreas Thiel]

Not sure the saltiness is really justified.

The dangers are a lot more subtle than that. You waste evenings because you have to chat on WhatsApp or they will get mad. Same with meeting in real life. They will have a bad opinion about something and you have a hard time being neutral.

Then there are the opportunity costs. Usually people start out wanting to just limit the time with their more unproductive friends. At some point they realize that it is not simple at all. Usually the discussion does not begin until that point is reached, so maybe the best idea is to worry about that later but try to establish boundaries and see how that goes.

 

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[Alleghenyman]

I think it comes down to a value judgment. On one hand I’ve learned that most of my friends have in some way wanted to hold me back and sometimes my development suffered as a result. On another hand, I’ve had lifelong friends who have been stabilizing influences on me because of their character. Choosing friends because they will promote one’s ambitions for financial success is just another form of money chasing.

I would never drop friends because they do not meet my definition of success - fortune is fickle, and as my father said to me, you meet the same people on the way up as you meet on the way down. It’s been inevitable though that I’ve drifted apart from people when we failed to maintain common interests.

 

[Andreas Thiel]

Choosing friends because they will promote one’s ambitions for financial success is just another form of money chasing.

Naaah, that is just way too simple. Usually when you consider making that change, then you realize that you and your friends are already worlds apart. Asking "what could be" then is not an a**hole thing to do.

 

[The-J]

You shouldn't need to cut them out, it'll kind of happen naturally.

You'll spend less and less time with them. You'll spend more time with doers. You'll spend the bulk of your time working on your projects.

Eventually you'll have to say no to some invites. Then you say no to more. Then you stop getting invited.

In the meantime, you're spending time working on your stuff and talking to people who are actually doing.

Not a bad thing, it's just life.

 

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[Rabby]

I guess there's also the question, are you trying to have friends, or are you trying to be a friend? That changes your perspective some, and maybe your willingness to put people aside.

Of course, people who no longer share things in common will drift apart. That's different from cancelling friendships and writing letters to rich folk to see if you can strike up a conversation.

Thinking more on this, I think it's good to have friends from a variety of social and economic areas. Ignoring people who aren't like you is really a kind of ignorance isn't it? But if you can understand a broader range of people, you have insights other people don't have.

Whether these friends "influence" you or not is really up to you... do you have the will to choose who you will be, or do other people tell you who you are?

 

[G-Man]

1. You have way fewer actual friends than you think.
2. If you find out someone is a true friend, don't let them go. Be a true friend.
3. When you become more successful, you'll get different friends, at which point refer back to rule 1.

 

[Zimbizee]

Friends come and go, real ones (and i mean true friends) stick around through thick and thin.

Back in the 90's when i was out partying hard all week long i had a group of friends that numbered around the 8 mark. We'd meet up all the time, parting, trips, sports etc for years.

If you want to find out who your real friends are just move away for a year. That's what i did (i'm in the UK and moved to Florida for a year) and it's amazing how the saying "out of sight, out of mind" rings true. I made the effort of staying in contact but it wasn't rescinded by any of them bar one. That person i still meet up with every week 20 years later. The rest weren't interested at all in maintaining contact.

If you think you have more real friends than digits on one hand you may be deceiving yourself.

The i have 500 friends on social media folks make me smile.

 

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[Mammoth]

I'm glad that I asked this as it's something I've been pondering for a while now.

I'm also glad that this forum is here so that I can ask these questions to a group of intelligent people who all have different experiences and ideas.

Interesting question, I have been down this road myself.

The first thing you must know is yourself and then you can decide on what you truly want. This isn't as easy as it sounds, but it will help you get on the right path. I personally value friendships/family more than money.

Thank you for the insight.
What I truly want, and not what others want for me....something I've really come to realize I haven't been true to in the past few years.

No, you don't have to throw your friends away. But you do (probably) need to find people who understand what you're doing, to balance the influence. If you only talk to unmotivated, sidewalking people, you're going to have a hard time being motivated and business oriented.

I have friends who I've known since grade school. The wealth gap is significant and grows by the year, but they are no less friends. A few of them have even started to catch on, and wonder if the whole "business" thing might not be a scam after all.

Right....definitely unbalanced then, besides having my uncle to speak with as he's the only person in my family (and circle of influence) that's business oriented.

You have to be somewhat ruthless in order to get where you want, wherever that is.
That doesnt mean stepping over people and cutting all friends, who dont help you, from your life.
The successful people you surround yourself with and spend time with, dont have to be your friends.
Also there might be friends which you need to cut from you life.
There is alot of gray area which you need to consider.

Your friends are like you and you are like your friends.
Thats how it works when it comes to friendship, like attracts like.
Its why you are friends in the first place and it makes sense that you rub off on each other.

One of the problems with that comes when you go through an identity change/shift.
Maybe you had your FTE, maybe a close person/friend died, maybe you had a near death experience or just maybe you changed because you found something that you really like and just kept doing it until it became part of your identity.
Identity is plastic, it changes.
It can change so much that you will no longer be like your friends.
But did anything change in your relations? Did they do something bad to you? Betray you?
Most likely, not.
Acknowledge the change in your identity and move on with your life by altering your social circle.
You dont have to cut the person from your life and there is nothing wrong with seeing each other from time to time.

Surrounding yourself with successful people can be done in many many ways.
They will not replace your friends and you dont need to befriend them.
Also the other BS is the number of people which "average" you.
At any given moment there is only ONE person who has the highest amount of influence on you.
Not 5, 6 or any other BS number, just ONE.
You`ll know the person and as soon as you read the word ONE, you`ll think of that person immediately.
That person can be a friend, parent, grandparent, boss, online persona, book author, politician, guru of some sort etc.
And that person changes for you or more accuratly, you change them.
You swap them for someone else.
All you need to do is find the person who will influence you in the direction where you want to go and swap when the time comes.

Hope this helps.

Very helpful, thank you Alex!

You're right, they haven't done anything bad to me, and I don't necessarily want to cut them out of my life...I've just realized that we have different values and the people you spend a lot of time with end up influencing your habits/values/behaviours, unless you have an iron will.

I like your idea of the one person. I know who that person is and we are drifting apart right now.

Don't mistake NETWORKING for FRIENDS, they may eventually turn into friends but when you'll be in trouble they won't raise a finger while your loser friend will have your back and have you sleeping over with no problem(just an example).

Love this, Bobby. I won't forget it.

Then there are the opportunity costs. Usually people start out wanting to just limit the time with their more unproductive friends. At some point they realize that it is not simple at all. Usually the discussion does not begin until that point is reached, so maybe the best idea is to worry about that later but try to establish boundaries and see how that goes.

I could see that being an issue with most people. Some of my friends I've gone over a year without talking to them and we jump right back into it as if only a day had passed, so I can't see dropping off the radar for a while being a problem.

You shouldn't need to cut them out, it'll kind of happen naturally.

You'll spend less and less time with them. You'll spend more time with doers. You'll spend the bulk of your time working on your projects.

Eventually you'll have to say no to some invites. Then you say no to more. Then you stop getting invited.

In the meantime, you're spending time working on your stuff and talking to people who are actually doing.

Not a bad thing, it's just life.

Guess I'm just overthinking it then, I tend to do that far too often

Thanks for the straight forward answer, J.

I guess there's also the question, are you trying to have friends, or are you trying to be a friend? That changes your perspective some, and maybe your willingness to put people aside.

Of course, people who no longer share things in common will drift apart. That's different from cancelling friendships and writing letters to rich folk to see if you can strike up a conversation.

Thinking more on this, I think it's good to have friends from a variety of social and economic areas. Ignoring people who aren't like you is really a kind of ignorance isn't it? But if you can understand a broader range of people, you have insights other people don't have.

Whether these friends "influence" you or not is really up to you... do you have the will to choose who you will be, or do other people tell you who you are?

I'd never thought of it that way before, Rabby. I guess I'd like to be open to having more friends, but I feel like I can only be a good friend to a small amount of people and I don't want to half a$$ a relationship. Maybe I've got it the wrong way though.

1. You have way fewer actual friends than you think.
2. If you find out someone is a true friend, don't let them go. Be a true friend.
3. When you become more successful, you'll get different friends, at which point refer back to rule 1.

That makes it simple: I'll just be a true friend.

Friends come and go, real ones (and i mean true friends) stick around through thick and thin.

Back in the 90's when i was out partying hard all week long i had a group of friends that numbered around the 8 mark. We'd meet up all the time, parting, trips, sports etc for years.

If you want to find out who your real friends are just move away for a year. That's what i did (i'm in the UK and moved to Florida for a year) and it's amazing how the saying "out of sight, out of mind" rings true. I made the effort of staying in contact but it wasn't rescinded by any of them bar one. That person i still meet up with every week 20 years later. The rest weren't interested at all in maintaining contact.

If you think you have more real friends than digits on one hand you may be deceiving yourself.

The i have 500 friends on social media folks make me smile.

I did move away for a while and that is 100% true.

Social media I feel is detrimental to friendship as it makes engagement so passive. Here's a like for your picture, so we're still friends, even though we never talk Communication in general seems to be taking a step backward.

 

[Bobby_italy]

By the way guys I really love those kind of discussions, the forum just showed me that most people in there actually value real friendship.

It's funny that the more I get involved the more I get this feeling that yeah making money is fine but it's a side effect to chasing greatness in both your work/investments and what your principles are, we can all stop for a second and appreciate the fact that we're getting taught to provide VALUE while irl many people would suggest to find some shortcuts just not to face hardship.

 

[Madame Peccato]

I became friends with people for who they were, not because they could help me with becoming better.

Exclusively spending time with people because they might "lift you up" so to speak sounds like parasitic behavior to me. I care about genuine relationships, and so do my friends.

There are no downsides to having friends that don't align with your values, in fact I'd argue it's important to have them, as they can be a reminder of what you don't want to become.

Appreciate people for who they are, not what they could do to help you.

 

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[Ing]

„You're the average of the 6 people you spend the most time with".
Thats right. But I don’t spend most of my tome with my best friends! Spending tome with my best friends is holidays.
When I need my friends, they are there. Like the maybe last 20 or even 35 years before. I don’t have tospend my time with my best friends all the time.