My Son and His Supposed Learning Disability

[Rem]

My son just started 3rd grade and I just received a phone call last week from his teacher saying he cannot do the work and is having problems. They wanted to meet with me and my wife to discuss is 'struggles'. I asked the teacher specifically what the problem was and she said that my son is having problem not in just reading but in math and spelling. I told her I looked at all his homework papers and they all are A good job or 100%

She told me all those were with help from the teacher. So I told her I didnt' know that and was under the false understanding my son was doing well in school. I told her that I would work with my son more in the evenings and I would have spent more time prior to this if I had actually known. There was no apology but rather my son has been developing a learning problem since 1st grade and they were hoping he would "catch on" soon. But they now feel that even a couple hours each day of extra help will not change anything.

So with that said, I was determined to "fix" him and prove them wrong. I picked up 3rd grade reading material and printed off 3rd grade math problems. I was going to test him myself. I have 3 other kids in school so I wasn't really paying a lot of attention to my son since everything 'seemed' fine.

I printed off worksheets and have spent the last few nights with my son doing homework and I can't seem to find any problems with him. I am trying not to be a parent with my head stuck in the sand and refuse to accept the fact your kid needs help. If he has a problem then I want to fix it. I assumed he had a problem that is why I was going to work with him. He has gotten an 85% or better on ever test I have given him. He seems to get it and even enjoy it. He definitely isn't a whiz and he does take a little longer than he should on subtracting triple digits. He holds up his fingers and counts... when he is subtracting. When he first started he was trying to carry when subtracting and not borrow, even on just double digits. I showed him what he was doing wrong and he said "ooooh" and he gets them right now.

Then his reading is perfect. Doesn't even slow on big words. He does have a little bit of an issue understanding what the story is about. Like I will ask him who caught the fish and he can't remember and so he goes back and has to look. He should know that. When I personally read the story to him and he is just listening he can tell me the answers fine.

I am awe struck by how the teacher is so certain he has a learning disability. I wonder if he is just having a problem paying attention in class but the teacher tells me he is a well behaved kid and is always trying but doesn't get it.

WTF. Anyone know of why he may be an A student at home but at school he just can't do it?? I am honestly speechless I am writing this on a forum to people I don't even know haha

 

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[Moneymaka]

Did you try asking your son if he has trouble understanding what they are teaching him at school?

The rest of what you wrote about him seems normal.

 

[Rem]

I asked him if he understood the material at school and he said he thought it was hard sometimes. He seems to like the teacher too.

 

[Icy]

Then his reading is perfect. Doesn't even slow on big words. He does have a little bit of an issue understanding what the story is about. Like I will ask him who caught the fish and he can't remember and so he goes back and has to look. He should know that. When I personally read the story to him and he is just listening he can tell me the answers fine.

Reading this part made me think of myself. It's weird, even to this day (I'm 19) when I am reading a story I have trouble remembering which character did certain things and I am always having to go back and look. If someone is reading it (thinking back years ago) I can remember it like nothing.

Frankly, perhaps this is a learning disability, I don't know, but it hasn't held me back at all. For some things I will need to spend more time doing it in order to get it done "correct" but I was able to get all A's throughout high school, and take AP classes. So don't think think it will hold your son back at all. Maybe it will be an advantage because he will look at things differently than others.

 

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[Runum]

Sorry to hear about your meeting. I am a 5th grade, public school teacher. I have had to sit on the other side of the table during those meetings and it breaks my heart. I cannot second guess the teacher, I can only throw out a few angles, observations, and ideas.

First, the topic of this meeting was probably a stunner for you. Beyond the initial shock you may not remember all that was said. It's good that they had good things to say about your kid. The teachers always need to find the good things the kid can and does do.

At this point, and after what you have done already, I would schedule another meeting with the teacher. If it's a team of teachers you need to meet with all of them. You have to have a very positive and agreeable attitude or they will get defensive and the meeting will be of no help. Make it clear that you are not trying to do anything to reflect negatively on the teacher, you just want to work with them to help your kid.

You need to find out specifics. You need to find out what the teacher is using for the assessment. You may need to know the teacher's experience level. If she is new then she may not be using the assessment tools correctly. You need to ask to see the results of the assessments and have them explained to you. You probably will not be allowed to take any copies of the assessment with you. You need to take notes. You need to know, specifically, where they believe his deficiencies lie and why.

Then you need to find your states education standards website. The school can provide the URL to you. This will be the site that will tell you what your state requires all third graders to know and do. There may be sample standardized tests online for you to see as well.

Since they say he has a learning disability you may need to have him tested for the disability. Your state will have laws that your district must follow to provide needed services for your kid if he qualifies. If your district doesn't want to play ball you can contact a local special education advocate to get their nose straightened out.

You may need to have an informal or formal, independent assessment performed. Your kid needs your brainpower and skills right now to help him out. This can be overcome but you have to be proactive, pleasant, and involved.

I'll be glad to help you swim through this if you need help. :cheers:

 

[Russ H]

Greg (Runum) will hopefully have some good things to say here [edit-- I see he did while I was writing my response-- thanks, Greg!!!]

A few pieces of wisdumb from me (the son of 2 teachers, my bro is a teacher as well):

1. Lots of teachers are control freaks. If your son doesn't get w/the program, that can be hard for a teacher to handle (they don't have the tools).

2. All kids learn differently. Could be your son tries extra hard for his papa 'cause he just thinks the world of you (he may not feel the same about his teacher).

3. Your son may have some significant distractions in school that he does NOT have at home (other kids, etc).

4. Your son may be *able* to perform, but not have the desire to. Kinda up to you guys (the parents) to fan those flames.

A story:

When I was in 4th//5th Grade, we took the IOWA tests (this was back in the 60s). There was a little red haired girl that I kinda had a crush on (Bridget Clancy). She sat a row to my right, one seat up.

I was awfully bored in school (everything took too long), so I spent lots of hours mooning about Bridget as my gf (hey, I was staring at her).

I was taught to do well on all of my tests, so I tried hard. EXTRA hard.

But when they handed out the IOWA tests, they really went over (and over) the fact that THESE TESTS WERE NOT PART OF OUR GRADES, nor were they "IMPORTANT"-- so just do your best, blah blah blah.

I'd never heard of a test that was not important, so instead of doing it like a regular test-- I made up a game:

I got finished w/a page, then looked up (out of the corner of my eye) to see when Bridget would turn her page. Mind you, I could not see her answers (didn't want to-- that would have been *cheating*), but turning the page when she did made it fun, and I felt, in my own weird, introverted 4th grade way, closer to the girl I liked.

You can all guess what happened.

Bridget was not the sharpest tool in the shed, so she never finished the test.

So neither did I.

But I didn't care, b/c IT WASN'T IMPORTANT. My teacher had told me so.

Needless to say, my scores were pretty low.

And my 5th grade teacher treated my like a dumb kid (hey, she had the IOWA scores to back her up).

But when I took the IOWA tests in the 6th grade, we were all told HOW IMPORTANT THEY WERE for our going on to middle school, and that we should get done as quickly-- and accurately-- as possible.

I sorta aced the test (99.9% percentile).

Wanna guess what happened?

My 5th/6th grade teacher thought SHE was a genius.

That's right-- SHE.

Because, after all, SHE had taken this pathetic little guy w/low scores, and, in 2 years, had turned me into a star student.

Her whole attitude towards me changed after that.

I was no longer the kid that had problems.

I was her golden boy.

I went on to place out of regular math, into advanced placement reading, etc.

*********

Wanna know the really funny thing?

My parents (the teachers) NEVER knew about any of this. I happened to figure it out years later when my mom talked about what a great teacher Kay Mullaney was-- how she'd taken me from these horrible IOWA test scores into the highest scoring student at school.

So I told her about Bridget Clancy.

I think my mom learned something that day.

*************

My two best pieces of advice:

1. Cut your son's teacher some slack. They are a human being. They make mistakes.

2. Cut your son some slack. Watch him, and be with him. Learn how he is changing, and how he best learns things.

If you see yourself, and your son, and his teacher as part of a team-- you will work towards an outcome where everyone wins.

As soon as you take a "me vs them" attitude, you're screwed.

Totally.

Take it from the son of 2 teachers. A teacher thinks you're helping, and kind, and are NOT BLAMING THE TEACHER-- and you will be gobsmacked at how much they will do for you/your kid.

But if you put any blame in their court, they go into defense mode. You just become another IED on their road of life, and they will avoid you like the plague.

-Russ H.

 

[mtnman]

This is sad and I feel for you.

So many things to be said here, but the reality is, if a kid can't learn, then they are not being taught properly. Get the clause "learning disability" out of your mind, and except nothing less for your children.

Learning disabilities, focus issues, and psychological issues are a business. They are spreading through the next generation like wildfire, but no one will stand up and accept responsibility for our educations system... if you call it that really, which is broken.

Example: if you want to teach a kid to spell, don't go over the words over and over. You don't recite them either. You make pictures with each letter being a different color. That becomes a photographed slide that gets stored away and after a quick recall a few times, it becomes automatic.... this is for kids with so called "learning issues" like myself that have a partial photographic memory.

Teachers are not educated in different ways to teach either.

Find some Bandler videos for some abstract material on teaching that works.

And no, my opinion doesn't come from having a problematic child, it comes from being one them.

 

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[Russ H]

One last story:

When I entered college, I took their standard reading test.

Flunked it.

So they put me into a remedial reading course.

I was p*ssed.

(I had a 700 on the Verbal part of the SAT, and already had advanced placement credits in English).

Had the head of my high school English dept test me-- and send her results to the University.

They looked into it.

Turns out, when they handed out the reading tests, there were 5 or 6 (out of the hundreds of tests) that were an OLD version of the test.

So the cover pretty much looked the same, but the questions (and answers) were all different.

Put the wrong answer key on that test an out popped a failing grade.

Put the right answer key on it and-- SHAZAAM!-- I came out with a 99%+ score.

Was a pretty big deal, back then.

Turns out that every single group of incoming Freshmen were getting these tests handed out-- and a few were failing that couldn't believe it.

But none of them fought it-- or had the ammunition I did (head of the English dept, mother a HS administrator, dad a HS teacher, high test scores, AP credits, etc).

Wound up changing the lives of a few dozen freshmen, who had also taken the old test and got it graded as "FAIL" using the new answer key.

Was a great lesson for me:

Don't be afraid to ask questions.

-Russ H.

 

[hatterasguy]

Next they are going to want to stick him on drugs.:coco:

My mom went through this with me, I guess I was slow to pick up reading, and I still can't spell for a damn. But the reading part worked itself out and now I'm a more avid reader than most.

 

[AroundTheWorld]

Great thread. Love all the different perspectives.

sm media,

My views on raising kids are pretty alternative, so I won't go into my take on this here. However, I will say this:

Take your time. You don't have to make a decision today. I know this will be heavy on your mind in the coming weeks, but especially in the next week or so. Instead of making a decision today....

Look at it from all the different angles.
Consider his learning style. Consider the teacher's teaching style. Perhaps observe class for a while. Consider the different perspectives on this thread.

Your son knows himself best. Tune into him.
Then, Trust your intition.

And.... be VERY VERY careful of labels. A label at this age could deeply impact him for the rest of his life.

I wish you and your son the best.

 

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[Rem]

Wow, I thank you all for your input. I really do appreciate it. And yes I probably will have this weighing on me for a bit. I do pretty well with stress and I have already feel a need to work with my son. I don't blame the teachers. I really don't... although I also agree with mtnman. The problem I see is there are so many problem kids who need to be dealt with that they don't have time to sit down with my son who is quiet and show him that when subtracting, if the number is lower on top then you need to borrow. You can't subtract going up. I caught this immediately. All his answers seemed random until I realized he wasn't borrowing, he was just subtracting upwards instead of downwards.

I simply told him he couldn't do that and all he said was "ooohhh" - He has been acing it ever since. After all these weeks and months the teacher couldn't show him that????

Again, I am not sure it's the teacher's fault. She is trying to make sure Joey isn't slapping at little Emma and oh dear Billy is swearing again.

I don't mind working with the administration if they can be just as fair and open minded as me and my wife. If it is truly my son and he has a problem, then I will admit it, but I expect that if we find out that he is not getting a good education that they would admit it. (Yeah right).

I feel I have made more progress with my son in 3 days then the school has done since he started.

Secondly I have a daughter who has had all the same teachers and I have another daughter who is younger than my son who is down at the school. They have never shown concern for those 2 even though my son is able to show my older daughter things.

The one thing that gets me is the homework being done at this level. Of course I want my kids to work hard in school but I am spending literally 2 and half hours each night just helping with homework. A lot of it they are doing themselves but son has more homework in his 3rd grade class than my daughter does in 4th grade. Each night he is doing reading, spelling packets, math, counting money, then on to continents and oceans and then back to antonyms and synonyms. It's nauseating. He does them all well and I just dont' get it.

I check his work and he gets them right. I might understand if he needs help on something but it seems like they are talking about a learning disability.

Anyway, this program I think is new. And Runum, this is not in any disrespect to you at all but I think in order to keep this program to be funded they need to reach a quota. Am I paranoid here? This gives the teachers more work and more salary to work extra long. They have a major summer program for K-3 grades and tons of kids are down there in the summer going to summer school. Teachers get paid for that.

Is it possible they are just picking some of the kids who are in the bottom and shoving them into this special ed program?? She mentioned on the phone that there were 8 other kids in her class that were possibly eligible for this program. :huh2:

 

[Runum]

No offense taken.

You haven't said which state this is. You seem to realize this is all a big bureaucracy. Your state has it's standards and programs, the feds have theirs and NCLB. It all has to do with time, labor, and funding. Special ed kids usually bring more money per pupil to the school than general ed kids. Your third grade may be a heavily weighted benchmark testing year. This is high stakes for the rating of the district. They will push the children in those grades harder than other grades. Our third grade kids have had to pass the Texas reading standardized test in order to be promoted to fourth grade. They were given 3 chances. This was all rescinded this year.

I did not teach last year because of all the government crap. I returned this year because I miss the kids. I do like helping the kids, hate dealing with all the extra junk.

It's good that you were able and willing to help your kids. Not all parents can or will spend the time to do it. Your kid is fortunate to have you for a parent.:cheers:

 

[hatterasguy]

Now you have got me thinking, and remembering.

Back in 1st through probably 4th but I may be off, I was in some "special" reading and writing program at my elementary school. Essentially it was for slow kids who were not picking up stuff fast enough. Two of my friends were in that program, now fast forward to present day... One is in medical school at Yale, and is doing work with some type of very advanced diabetes research. Eventualy he is probably going to do heart surgery, maybe brain. Another is an anesthesiologist.

I can name two of the "smart" kids who are now smoking pot in their parents basement, and on the fast track to being losers.

My point is don't let the school label him. My mom stuck in their for me, as did my friends parents, and it worked out.

 

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[AroundTheWorld]

No offense taken.

You haven't said which state this is. You seem to realize this is all a big bureaucracy. Your state has it's standards and programs, the feds have theirs and NCLB. It all has to do with time, labor, and funding. Special ed kids usually bring more money per pupil to the school than general ed kids. Your third grade may be a heavily weighted benchmark testing year. This is high stakes for the rating of the district. They will push the children in those grades harder than other grades. Our third grade kids have had to pass the Texas reading standardized test in order to be promoted to fourth grade. They were given 3 chances. This was all rescinded this year.

Reading this literally made me feel nauseous.

:repuke:

 

[AroundTheWorld]

Before I forget - do a little reading on the benefits of delayed reading. Will give you a little food for thought.

My point is don't let the school label him.

Yup. My brother got labeled as slow, and I believe it impacted his self esteem and.... really... his life.... even as an adult now.

My son has many of the same personality characteristics that my brother has. A desire to try things out on his own and figure it out - rather than sitting and listening to how it is done. An inability to sit still for long, especially when not interested in the topic at hand. An intense desire to explore and investigate. etc. etc.

I know that if I had my son in a "traditional" educational environment, he would have struggled, and probably been labeled.

 

[Runum]

Reading this literally made me feel nauseous.

:repuke:

I agree. You ought to see these 8-9 year old kids dealing with test anxiety. IMHO it's a modern form of torture. The leaders promised accountability in public education and the public agreed. This is the monster we were served.

I forgot to add about special ed kids...There may be another strategic reason to get a kid classified as special ed, they may be exempt from the high stakes test and thus not count against the ratings of the district.

 

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[Rem]

I was one year behind my sister and she eventually graduated 2nd in her class and went to Stanford University in CA. She spent time studying abroad in Germany and soon went on to get her masters and phd. She got an awesome job teaching first year law students but got bored quickly since she only had to be there 4 times a week and had summers and vacations off. So she quit and went to work for a law firm as a lawyer hoping to become a member some day.

Anyway not to get off track but I was labeled stupid in school since I had a lot of the same teachers she did. She would get A+ all the time and if I got a B+ or an A- it was that I wasn't applying myself and needed help. I remember my history teacher made me have a tutor during study hall because my grade was a B-. It was my lowest grade because at the time I couldn't care less when the Battle of Hastings was, let alone why it was fought. My sister aced everything. He was sending home notices to my parents telling them I was in jeopardy of failing the class. I told them by grade was a B- and I thought I was doing fine. I don't blame my sister, but it was related to the fact my sister was setting a precedence before I even entered the classroom for the year.

Then I remember they offered a Writing for College class every other year. My sister and I happened to land the same teacher that year but at a different time. Our final paper I received an A+ and my sister got an A. My parents literally crapped themselves. I was treated like a king for a short period of time.

My history teacher over heard me talking later on in the hallway and he was shocked I was even in the class. He approached me and said "You are in Mrs. Taylor's class for Writing for College?" I said yes sir... I just got an A+ on my final paper.

He had labeled me as stupid and couldn't believe it. If he looked at the numbers it would show that I wasn't, I just wasn't the whiz kid my sister was. I was slightly above average. Take all my scores and I was always on the high end of average.

What's funny now since it's been 15 years I am a history junkie haha

I enjoy and read many books on American History. Math was a strong subject for me. Now I hardly use numbers except to add up how much revenue and profit I am generating.

 

[andviv]

Is there a chance you spend a day in the class room, somewhat hidding, to see what he does while in class?

My eldest kid was having "attention issues" --meaning: not paying attention to the teacher. It was not until the last month of the school year when my wife asked "Can you see the board from where you are sitting?" (the back of the classroom) that we discovered the issue. Kid was moved to the front and, voila, no issues no more. How did we discover the problem? My wife went earlier one day to school, looked at my kid and noticed the struggle when trying to see what the teacher is writing on the board.

Kid had been moved to the back because, earlier in the school year, sitting next to another "talkative" kid, both spend the time talking instead of doing.

Had we done this earlier then the "issues" would have been gone.

Try going there, and watch somehow how your son behaves in class, that may explain what's going on, just like others mentioned here, maybe the environment is not as conducive as it is back at home.

Good luck with it.

 

[Russ H]

Perfect example of not being afraid to ask questions, Andviv-- and not looking for blame.

Good on you!

-Russ H.

 

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[Russ H]

I suppose I should have said this long ago:

We all have learning disabilities.

We all have flaws, and faults.

We are not perfect creatures, nor are we identical.

Key is not to be ashamed of our differences-- but celebrate them.

We all learn differently.

Celebrate that. And figure out how you learn, best.

-Russ H.

 

[LagunaLauren]

It seems a lot of people were labeled slow or not as bright, etc. Same with my husband who was treated differently than his brothers. In a family of intellectuals, he was treated as if he were stupid. It still affects him, even though he's now in medical school kicking a$$. (He got the top 99.1% in the country on organic chemistry on the entrance exam ot med school even though he had only taken one organic chem class and taught himself the rest before the test). Jack Canfield cites a true experiment where kids in a well-below average remedial/special ed reading class were given visualization techniques to condition themselves to wash away all the negative feedback and "Stupid" or "slow" labels and just visualized themselves reading well, reading confidently and having their teachers and parents proud of them. With no other changes, academic or otherwise, 2 months later the same kids were tested and were reading at 3 grade levels above their actual grade. Be careful how his teachers or others label him. He sounds ok to me with the progress you've made with him. I would get an objective opinion and get him tested to see if he does learn differently. There may be techniques that will help him if he truly does see or process or learn things differently. However, if he is perfectly normal, a negative label could ruin him. Trust your instincts as a parent. And stay positive with lots of praise about how smart he is. Kids will live up to expectations, both good and bad.