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HOT TOPIC Making Money With Web Design 2017/2018

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Another question. Should we be wanting to create content for the sites we build? In terms of things like informational PDFs and other lead magnets. Would this be a good thing to include in our package.
Does it make your customer happy?

Is it valuable for your customer?

Would it make the life easier for your customer?

Yes.
 

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Hey Fox would you recommend doing some work for free to build portfolio and then starting charging a bit of money?

I feel it will be very difficult to sell your skills without any portfolio to backed it up.
 
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@Fox A question concerning site size.

I've come across a lot of big companies, in boring blue collar niches, with horrid sites, that are prime for the picking. BUT, a lot of these sites have a seemingly endless amount of pages. Every page has 10 links, each of those links has another 8 links, and so on a so fourth. It's like every service and sub service they have has it's own dedicated page.

I usually get excited by the opportunity these sites present, but then get awfully intimidated by the size the more I dig in. Do you have experience drastically reducing the size of a site? What would your criteria be for sites like these. Companies who are offering a ton of different specializations.

Should I steer clear or should I focus on condensing the information and keeping it on an essentials basis?

Thanks !
Ya all the time, lately I made a 30+ page site into 6/7 pages.

No one will read 30 pages so why it might seem like they maximising their online real estate it usually means a haphazard site with no clear plan. There are exceptions but many older sites are way too bloated.

Boil it down, make a clear sales path(s), and optimize it for sales. Do all your redirects correctly and it won't impact SEO.

These are great sites to work on so definitely dont avoid. I have done a dozen or so of these over the last year.
 

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Aquent Gymnasium

I found a free online course that will help with writing good sales copy for websites. So far its been very helpful.

Fox, can you provide another website that provides great call to action and social proof? I'm afraid my websites will look all the same...
 

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Hey Fox would you recommend doing some work for free to build portfolio and then starting charging a bit of money?

I feel it will be very difficult to sell your skills without any portfolio to backed it up.
Yes this is what he recommended on the previous thread. Try to do a few on your own before charging. It can be tricky the first time around
 
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Another question. Should we be wanting to create content for the sites we build? In terms of things like informational PDFs and other lead magnets. Would this be a good thing to include in our package.
Aquent Gymnasium

I found a free online course that will help with writing good sales copy for websites. So far its been very helpful.

Fox, can you provide another website that provides great call to action and social proof? I'm afraid my websites will look all the same...
This is a simple enough site that turns over millions per year.

Good social proof, calls to action, and great copy.

Welcome / The Body Coach
 
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Hey Fox would you recommend doing some work for free to build portfolio and then starting charging a bit of money?

I feel it will be very difficult to sell your skills without any portfolio to backed it up.
Only do free work if:
- It is a real business that will see real results from a better website
- They are committed and will help you finished the job fast
- They will give you permission to use the site/them to land future jobs
- It is a small website. Don't go building 8 page websites for free. 1 - 4 pages is fine and its a lot better to have good quality work than quantity.

I usually recommend you charge a small amount to test commitment and have them more mentally invested in the project.

Also this means free AFTER you sell them on the idea.
DONT do free sites up front and then call them trying to get them to use the site. This is a terrible idea.
 

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Hey @Fox, do you mind answering me something regarding closing deals? I'm prolly missing something.
(Anyone who wants to answer my question feel free, I just asked @Fox directly cause I want his personal thoughts on it)

Happened twice with me, I must be doing something wrong (or I got unluck).

Went on cold calling and got in contact with this guy who owns a small company and is growing locally. Found his contact through yellow pages. After researching about him and his company I found out that he has a crappy website, made 8 years ago.
I call him, say who I am, explain what I do and how I can help him grow his sales and he says he's interested. He asks me to explain it better through email and I do so.
I send a message explaning what I can do, and why and how this is will grow his sales. I even got a little upfront saying how much I'll charge, which is 1k in my currency ($300), pretty small quantity cause I'm just starting.
Imo I'm more helping him than I'm helping myself. If I was in his position I'd love to receive this proposal. However, he just sent an email on the next day saying that he received my message and will get in contact soon. But he never does. It's been 15-20 days that it happened and he prolly never will answer. Should I call him again? I don't think I should because if he was that interested in it he would answer, right?

The second call was to a finance office (local as well) that also don't have great website. The woman that received my call is one of 3 partners in this company, she says she's interested but she needs to talk to the other 2 people in it. This time I asked if she wanted me to explain it better through email and I do the same I did earlier but this time I receive no answer whatsoever.

Those are the 2 calls that I got more close to closing a deal. The other calls were all just "we're not interested, we're already have somebody working on it for us (felt like a lie but who cares), and so on"

Am I doing something wrong? It's kinda weird to explain everything through a call and after the first potencial client said that he wanted me to write it down and send a email, I thought this was the best way to do it.

What do you guys have to say about it? Thanks in advance!
 
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dior616

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Hey @Fox, do you mind answering me something regarding closing deals? I'm prolly missing something.
(Anyone who wants to answer my question feel free, I just asked @Fox directly cause I want his personal thoughts on it)

Happened twice with me, I must be doing something wrong (or I got unluck).

Went on cold calling and got in contact with this guy who owns a small company and is growing locally. Found his contact through yellow pages. After researching about him and his company I found out that he has a crappy website, made 8 years ago.
I call him, say who I am, explain what I do and how I can help him grow his sales and he says he's interested. He asks me to explain it better through email and I do so.
I send a message explaning what I can do, and why and how this is will grow his sales. I even got a little upfront saying how much I'll charge, which is 1k in my currency ($300), pretty small quantity cause I'm just starting.
Imo I'm more helping him than I'm helping myself. If I was in his position I'd love to receive this proposal. However, he just sent an email on the next day saying that he received my message and will get in contact soon. But he never does. It's been 15-20 days that it happened and he prolly never will answer. Should I call him again? I don't think I should because if he was that interested in it he would answer, right?

The second call was to a finance office (local as well) that also don't have great website. The woman that received my call is one of 3 partners in this company, she says she's interested but she needs to talk to the other 2 people in it. This time I asked if she wanted me to explain it better through email and I do the same I did earlier but this time I receive no answer whatsoever.

Those are the 2 calls that I got more close to closing a deal. The other calls were all just "we're not interested, we're already have somebody working on it for us (felt like a lie but who cares), and so on"

Am I doing something wrong? It's kinda weird to explain everything through a call and after the first potencial client said that he wanted me to write it down and send a email, I thought this was the best way to do it.

What do you guys have to say about it? Thanks in advance!
You should actually close the deal in the phone call, otherwise they won’t be committed. After they’ve accepted, you should send them an invoice/follow up (50% upfront, 50% when finished) asap.

Sometimes you have to just let go of shitty clients that don’t keep their word and move on.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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Hey @Fox, do you mind answering me something regarding closing deals? I'm prolly missing something.
(Anyone who wants to answer my question feel free, I just asked @Fox directly cause I want his personal thoughts on it)

Happened twice with me, I must be doing something wrong (or I got unluck).

Went on cold calling and got in contact with this guy who owns a small company and is growing locally. Found his contact through yellow pages. After researching about him and his company I found out that he has a crappy website, made 8 years ago.
I call him, say who I am, explain what I do and how I can help him grow his sales and he says he's interested. He asks me to explain it better through email and I do so.
I send a message explaning what I can do, and why and how this is will grow his sales. I even got a little upfront saying how much I'll charge, which is 1k in my currency ($300), pretty small quantity cause I'm just starting.
Imo I'm more helping him than I'm helping myself. If I was in his position I'd love to receive this proposal. However, he just sent an email on the next day saying that he received my message and will get in contact soon. But he never does. It's been 15-20 days that it happened and he prolly never will answer. Should I call him again? I don't think I should because if he was that interested in it he would answer, right?

The second call was to a finance office (local as well) that also don't have great website. The woman that received my call is one of 3 partners in this company, she says she's interested but she needs to talk to the other 2 people in it. This time I asked if she wanted me to explain it better through email and I do the same I did earlier but this time I receive no answer whatsoever.

Those are the 2 calls that I got more close to closing a deal. The other calls were all just "we're not interested, we're already have somebody working on it for us (felt like a lie but who cares), and so on"

Am I doing something wrong? It's kinda weird to explain everything through a call and after the first potencial client said that he wanted me to write it down and send a email, I thought this was the best way to do it.

What do you guys have to say about it? Thanks in advance!
Well done taking some action. Thats half the battle.

A few things here that should help:

- Don't mention price until you understand their business, have gone over their problems, and roughly know what a new website will be worth to them. If you mention price to early then you aren't selling value > you are selling a generic package. Even if it actually isn't generic the customer thinks it since since you were able to give it a number.

Price comes last, when all else has been covered.

- Don't go backwards through the sales funnel. If you have someone on the phone and they want to talk then arrange another phone calls. It is very hard to sell using an email - emails are for setting up calls or arranging details. Phone time is way better so always try go for that first. If you have to email then keep it vague and high level and push for another phone call.

Possible bonus: Use false time constraints. Mention you have some free time this month or that you might have to take another project soon. Don't overplay it but put some sort of timeframe on your interactions. If not people don't have any rush and they might take months or years to respond if they do at all. Make sure to "contain" the sales pitch into some kind of time period.

Let us know how things go.

This video might help...

 

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Bruno Lara

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You should actually close the deal in the phone call, otherwise they won’t be committed. After they’ve accepted, you should send them an invoice/follow up (50% upfront, 50% when finished) asap.

Sometimes you have to just let go of shitty clients that don’t keep their word and move on.


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Hey sir, thanks for answering!
I do agree that if they accepted it, we should close as soon as possible. However, in this scenario, they're just interested but they're not sure. It was a 3-5 minutes call, maybe less, no time for explaning everything/closing a deal


Well done taking some action. Thats half the battle.

A few things here that should help:

- Don't mention price until you understand their business, have gone over their problems, and roughly know what a new website will be worth to them. If you mention price to early then you aren't selling value > you are selling a generic package. Even if it actually isn't generic the customer thinks it since since you were able to give it a number.

Price comes last, when all else has been covered.

- Don't go backwards through the sales funnel. If you have someone on the phone and they want to talk then arrange another phone calls. It is very hard to sell using an email - emails are for setting up calls or arranging details. Phone time is way better so always try go for that first. If you have to email then keep it vague and high level and push for another phone call.

Possible bonus: Use false time constraints. Mention you have some free time this month or that you might have to take another project soon. Don't overplay it but put some sort of timeframe on your interactions. If not people don't have any rush and they might take months or years to respond if they do at all. Make sure to "contain" the sales pitch into some kind of time period.

Let us know how things go.

This video might help...

Thanks Fox, it means a lot!

Well I thought that if I was upfront about it they would feel better and see that I am by no means overpricing this service. Good to know that I shouldn't do it.

I actually felt it on your "how to get your first client" video. I watched it the day before yesterday. I felt that your mindset is what you wrote: negotiate through phone calls.
Yesterday I messaged a food company that is selling through a mobile app (they're a full delivery based company). This app charges 10% of the total earnings that the company has in the entire month. That's a lot and I think that if they have a website they would prolly earn more since there would be no fee.
I sent them a message through Facebook (they don't have email, just a delivery number), asking when should I call.
Am I getting the big picture or something is missing?
Again, thanks!
 

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Anyone else worried that the market will dry up and this is fruitless endeavor? The face book group has 5000 members...
 

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Anyone else worried that the market will dry up and this is fruitless endeavor? The face book group has 5000 members...
The unfortunate fact is that the majority of the people in that group will not actually set an appointment to talk to a business.

Yes, the ratio of action takers in that group is probably higher than most... but again, put a bit of thought and effort into your selling process and you’re already leagues ahead of most.

It’s echoed on this forum a lot, but action puts you ahead of the pack every time.
 
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Anyone else worried that the market will dry up and this is fruitless endeavor? The face book group has 5000 members...
No. There is no shortage of businesses that need some kind of online solution.

Every year there are new products, services, and companies. Also every year people have new problems and new goals. Also every year millions of previously okay websites need updating or to be redesigned.

5,000 isn’t a lot of people. Think of how many people are interested in selling on amazon (do a YouTube search and see the numbers), or how many copies a bestselling property investment book sells, and so on. There are 100s of Facebook groups for every niche and business hustle.

Don’t stop yourself before you even start. The only real competition you will have in web design is yourself. If you can learn to sell and deliver value you will make money. You only need around 20 good clients a year to make 100k plus and you are building skill sets that easily allow you to do into saas, ecommerce, apps, and much more.

There are other ways I make money too but I know it’s not smart to talk about them. With web design though the demand is so huge and the number of good web designers so small that it won’t change anything.
 

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Hi Fox. I read that you outsource stuff like wordpress. I have my first client that will want to update their website periodically. How did you outsource the wordpress aspect but keep control of the original code and design?
 

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Thanks for all the information you have shared on this forum its been invigorating! I have just completed the HTML course on Code Academy and the Udemy Course....and will be speaking to my local plumbing merchant down the road about designing a website for a small fee if they feel this will be of value to their business.

Is it worth looking into designing Logos from scratch (not sure what type of software would be used for this) as I would like to offer a more complete package Website and Logo?

Thanks
 

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Hey @Fox

I used the video you put out on your youtube channel, 31 Questions to sell a website, as a guide for my sales call to a local law firm. The questions uncovered a lot of information that I probably would not have received if I didn't pose them.

Questions like Whats your sales process? and, What's a client worth to you? helped reveal that this attorney is paying about 15K per month for lead generation and she is very unhappy with the conversion rate. ding, ding!

Just wanted to thank you much for the value you are putting out. Really makes me interested in your course!

All the best to you.
 
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Hi Fox. I read that you outsource stuff like wordpress. I have my first client that will want to update their website periodically. How did you outsource the wordpress aspect but keep control of the original code and design?
For the build I set up wordpress in a subfolder and give the client access. There is no way they can damage the main site this way and also depending on the WP privileges you give them they won't be able to break anything on the WP side either. Show them how to make a post and moderate comments etc.

As for building it I outsource WP and then usually have a maintenance plan that is set up between my client and my WP guy. I prefer making my money on the bigger deal so I usually help people out with these kind of add ons.
 
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Thanks for all the information you have shared on this forum its been invigorating! I have just completed the HTML course on Code Academy and the Udemy Course....and will be speaking to my local plumbing merchant down the road about designing a website for a small fee if they feel this will be of value to their business.

Is it worth looking into designing Logos from scratch (not sure what type of software would be used for this) as I would like to offer a more complete package Website and Logo?

Thanks
If you want but designing logos are a pain in the a$$ (unless you are getting big money for it). A website design can be based on actual principles and data while a logo is very much up the clients personal preferences. I compare it sometimes to naming someone elses baby. But ya it is possible but I usually refuse to do logo design > I let them outsource that themselves.
 
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Hey @Fox

I used the video you put out on your youtube channel, 31 Questions to sell a website, as a guide for my sales call to a local law firm. The questions uncovered a lot of information that I probably would not have received if I didn't pose them.

Questions like Whats your sales process? and, What's a client worth to you? helped reveal that this attorney is paying about 15K per month for lead generation and she is very unhappy with the conversion rate. ding, ding!

Just wanted to thank you much for the value you are putting out. Really makes me interested in your course!

All the best to you.
Perfect, glad I could help. 15k a month means you have a lot of room to make a great deal while still reducing her costs (and improving her results). Let us know how this deal goes.

Here is the video for anyone else...

 

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@Fox how did you know you were good enough at developing to market to clients?
Is there a link to the facebook group? I' struggling to find it.
 
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@Fox how did you know you were good enough at developing to market to clients?
Is there a link to the facebook group? I' struggling to find it.
I just started small and got bigger as I went along.
First job was for my uncle, then a few $100 sites, then a $2,000 lawyer, soon after a $8,000 oil field company and so on.

Think of it like a boxer.
You work up to a title fight, you don't practice only and then jump in the ring with a proven opponent.
Pick little fights first and win those.
 

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I just started small and got bigger as I went along.
First job was for my uncle, then a few $100 sites, then a $2,000 lawyer, soon after a $8,000 oil field company and so on.

Think of it like a boxer.
You work up to a title fight, you don't practice only and then jump in the ring with a proven opponent.
Pick little fights first and win those.
Do you charge monthly for anything? Maintenance?

I’ve been kind of outlining 3 plans to pitch to a local business (already made an example site page for the business) and don’t really know what to charge for revisions, etc.

I haven’t taken it super seriously yet so I haven’t taken any action other than a rough draft of pricing plans, but it gets more interesting to me everyday. Working on a little pitch.
 
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Hey @Fox your posts are fire and thank you for sharing your experience and lessons learned in your web design journey.

Had a question around targeting clients that hopefully you can enlighten me a bit on. When you are searching for leads and doing research, what are some of the main things you look for on their websites that help you gauge whether they'll likely need/want your service, apart from having no web presence at all (lol)?
- i.e. incredibly antiquated design, way too much text, no [quality] images, bad layout, bad copy... i've been looking at sites for the niche I want to target in my area but some folks seem to have 'so-so' or 'decent' sites, despite being developed a few years ago. What criteria do you use to evaluate their sites and have selling points for them to find value in your service? I suppose after you picked up most of the low-hanging fruit, you developed some sort of evaluation criteria.

Many thanks in advance and keep crushing it!
 

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What do you guys put into your contracts? What about proposals?
 

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Hi fox, I just watched your video on the importance of a quality website. What if the client does not have any way of driving traffic to the website? What role do you take after seeing they have no traffic? Do you simply build the website or take a more hands on approach towards it?
 
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This thread and @Fox Youtube channel are fire. Following closely.


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Do you charge monthly for anything? Maintenance?

I’ve been kind of outlining 3 plans to pitch to a local business (already made an example site page for the business) and don’t really know what to charge for revisions, etc.

I haven’t taken it super seriously yet so I haven’t taken any action other than a rough draft of pricing plans, but it gets more interesting to me everyday. Working on a little pitch.
I don't but I know there is a ton of potential in doing so. If you want to think long term then having monthly reoccurring revenue is great. It stacks up fast. Maintenance plans and hosting are two great ways to go about this.

For the main project though I usually do one set price that is a stand alone deal. I like how clean it is and I don't want to lock in with a client till I know the initial project went well.
 
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Hi fox, I just watched your video on the importance of a quality website. What if the client does not have any way of driving traffic to the website? What role do you take after seeing they have no traffic? Do you simply build the website or take a more hands on approach towards it?
Ill recommend a lower budget to cover some form of driving traffic. I dont want to build a site that doesnt get views - it sucks for both parties. If you want to sell results you need to make sure people will actually be using the website, its just one link in a chain.

I made this mistake in my first year and it wasn't nice. Built some decent websites that very few people every got to use. You need to make sure your client has a plan on how to get people to use what you build otherwise its wasted money and effort.
 

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