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Making Money With Web Design 2017/2018

Fox

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I completely agree... but help me learn a bit please. I fail to see how a website could help in those situations (due to my lack of experience, I'm not contesting it since you've experienced it and have answers to those questions), could you give me some examples you came across?

Lets talk hypothetically about a large industrial firm. Let's say it's in the renewal energy field (or oil, or civil construction, you pick it). These guys don't rely on their website for work, they have contracts with the city hall and other large companies that are already in contact, so a new website would do nothing for them into getting new clients (especially when monthly searches on specific keywords is extremely low to justify it). What would be some examples on the other questions you mentioned that could be resolved with a website, and how would a new website provide value to them?

Hypothetical question so hypothetical answer...

Oil prices are globally low so city hall are getting squeezed for the high prices they were paying subcontractors a few years ago. Reelection is coming up and the current major has to show that all contracts were awarded to the best parties for the right prices. Enter your client.

You find out the above information during a phone call discussing how they get the majority of their contracts. You also know that on their bidding applications (multiple per month) they include a footer with information about the company. You also know these are publicly available and while viewed by those awarding the bids they are also viewed by those trying to see if the major/city hall is spending money in the best way.

You create a plan for a website that will focus on the showing how your client runs a very efficient business producing great results far below the cost of their competitors. You show they use cost pricing systems designed to reduce wastage and consistently complete projects under schedule. They also only hire workers who also support the city and follow similar practices. You show they are the best choice for delivering results within tighter budgets. While the competitors sites also have a little on these topics you present a plan for a website that will go in depth showing case studies, graphs, testimonials, and real data.

This clearly makes a lot of sense for your client and they have been spending a fortune on new bids with very little results (remember times are tougher so the process has got more competitive). Each potential contract is worth $300,000 to $5,000,000. They are happy to spend the $20,000 investment for a website with such a clear plan.

You then build this site and advice your client how to best use it during their bidding process. Now they not only focus on the cost savings (one win) but also on letting city hall know that this is the best political move that safeguards them further political exposure (second win). When it comes time to award the next bidding process who is more likely to win?

Of course this is highly fictional but you asked for one example. The thing is though there are millions of ways to do something similar and add just as much value. It starts with looking at it in the right way.

Meanwhile Jimmy McColdSpam is trying to get pass the secretary so he can let them know they are only showing up second for some google keywords.
 
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Fox

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I just got schooled, and I am grateful for it. Thank you Rob. I already knew how much more I have to learn, but your reply felt like a cold shower. Thank you!

Ha! Don't worry - I spent months when I first started pitching web design all wrong.
It will click fast if you can understand the above example.
 

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Ha! Don't worry - I spent months when I first started pitching web design all wrong.
It will click fast if you can understand the above example.

Quick response to the above hypothetical answer, and was hoping to get an answer of my own.

Hypothetically, you are a new web developer with lots of experience but nothing that can really be shown in a portfolio, so you decide to start from scratch and build your client-base and use the work you do for them in your portfolio.
So, let's say you get your site up and running, and you start approaching businesses, let's say an ice-cream parlour or something for example.

The obvious solution for the website is to make a nice looking and user-friendly website displaying ice-cream flavours and attempt to boost sales. You approach the manager in the shop and ask them about it, they have no clue and suggest you speak to the owner. However, the owner isn't there.

What is a hypothetical solution to this? Leave your card with the manager? In my opinion, while this might be an option, I don't see this having a very high success rate.

As another hypothetical, what should you be charging people/businesses for your services if you have little or no portfolio to show?
 
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Fox

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You approach the manager in the shop and ask them about it, they have no clue and suggest you speak to the owner. However, the owner isn't there.

What is a hypothetical solution to this? Leave your card with the manager? In my opinion, while this might be an option, I don't see this having a very high success rate.

Same as any other sales - ask what is the best way to follow up and proceed to contact them by that method. Usually drop in again or by phone or email.

As another hypothetical, what should you be charging people/businesses for your services if you have little or no portfolio to show?

Depends on your certainty of being able to generate a result and your ability to sell it.

The first few jobs you should be focused on creating a portfolio though not on profit. Charge enough to cover your end and instead put focus on getting the best jobs possible to show what you are capable off. If you can't drive results yet then that is something you should be working on first before increasing prices.

In general you will know when to boost prices because you are seeing all the value you have already created.
 
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rogue synthetic

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Thanks for this thread and all the nuggets in it, Fox.

You're really hitting all the nails that have kept me from moving into web design as business. It's always felt like a huge gap between web designers, who as a rule don't know or care about selling, and the selling and marketing pieces.

I like how you've brought those two halves together: A web designer isn't just pitching a website. You're pitching them a whole sales process.

Your oil company example got me wondering. Have you branched out into offering copywriting services? Do you just take that as part of the design process? That seems like the kind of project you'd want to go deep with on content just to sell the company to its target audience. Of course that's going to be true for any business I'd think, but here the prospects are a fairly targeted niche. Is this something you offer yourself, even if only by outsourcing it?
 

Fox

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Thanks for this thread and all the nuggets in it, Fox.

You're really hitting all the nails that have kept me from moving into web design as business. It's always felt like a huge gap between web designers, who as a rule don't know or care about selling, and the selling and marketing pieces.

I like how you've brought those two halves together: A web designer isn't just pitching a website. You're pitching them a whole sales process.

Your oil company example got me wondering. Have you branched out into offering copywriting services? Do you just take that as part of the design process? That seems like the kind of project you'd want to go deep with on content just to sell the company to its target audience. Of course that's going to be true for any business I'd think, but here the prospects are a fairly targeted niche. Is this something you offer yourself, even if only by outsourcing it?

I believe effective copy is a huge part of having a great website so its one area I always look to have professionally done. I do study it myself but it is nearly always outsourced. I wouldn't offer it as a separate service but I love having great copy on the sites I build.
 
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BD64

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Question based on an issue I'm dealing with right now.

Have you had any issues with working for clients that are a sub-division or individually owned business as part of a franchise? For example in my particular case I designed a website for a dealership underneath a large car manufacturer. Before we launched I got word that they were hesitant to implement the site because of how they had to adhere to the corporate guidelines and such. I have a feeling this kinda stuff could get pretty messy sometimes but again I'm not really sure. Was wondering if anyone had any insight or experience with this sorta situation.
 

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Question based on an issue I'm dealing with right now.

Have you had any issues with working for clients that are a sub-division or individually owned business as part of a franchise? For example in my particular case I designed a website for a dealership underneath a large car manufacturer. Before we launched I got word that they were hesitant to implement the site because of how they had to adhere to the corporate guidelines and such. I have a feeling this kinda stuff could get pretty messy sometimes but again I'm not really sure. Was wondering if anyone had any insight or experience with this sorta situation.
Franchises in general often have very strict guidelines as to how everything looks, is presented, etc. Even the marketing that businesses do.

The dealership would most likely have to get approved by the brand. Someone did a website for Porsche and it had to be approved and up to Porsche standards. I dont know if its that way for every car manufacturer though.
 

BD64

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Franchises in general often have very strict guidelines as to how everything looks, is presented, etc. Even the marketing that businesses do.

The dealership would most likely have to get approved by the brand. Someone did a website for Porsche and it had to be approved and up to Porsche standards. I dont know if its that way for every car manufacturer though.

Right, that makes sense. I guess I may just have to take an L on this one and move on. Good lesson though for filtering out future clients and such.
 
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Bulgano

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Right, that makes sense. I guess I may just have to take an L on this one and move on. Good lesson though for filtering out future clients and such.

This is NOT how you want to look at the situation. If you've read unscripted like your tag says, you will agree that in order to achieve your goal, you don't want to pick something that's easy. Anything with a decent reward will take work.

How many others do you think have done websites for franchises only to be rejected? Probably hundreds at least. How many of them do you think keep pursuing the same company even after that? Not many.

Alter your website to fit their guidelines or convince them to change the guidelines to your site if you are offering a lot of value. If you do that and manage to do well on the site, the franchise might even hire you to do other stuff for them?

You need to look at the big picture man and not quit so early. :)
 

Fox

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Question based on an issue I'm dealing with right now.

Have you had any issues with working for clients that are a sub-division or individually owned business as part of a franchise? For example in my particular case I designed a website for a dealership underneath a large car manufacturer. Before we launched I got word that they were hesitant to implement the site because of how they had to adhere to the corporate guidelines and such. I have a feeling this kinda stuff could get pretty messy sometimes but again I'm not really sure. Was wondering if anyone had any insight or experience with this sorta situation.

Tricky but I think its doable. I would get them to give you full clearance to build what you see fit OR have a very solid contract on how pay will work if you have to meet guidelines. Make sure to account for time making changes if things need to be adjusted. But if there is a need then take the job, doing this one job great could open up the whole franchise.
 

Fox

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I posted this on the FB group in answer to a question but I figured maybe some people will get value out of it here too.

 

BD64

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I posted this on the FB group in answer to a question but I figured maybe some people will get value out of it here too.


Woah! Offering conent from your web school, super generous of you. Take some rep :)
 

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Hey @Fox - I have since reading your previous forum thread been knee deep in learning web design. I started googling "towing + stockholm" and other cities and found this as a first target:
www.assistansbrgaren-4nb.se/

They rank well (bottom on first page) and I figured with some better SEO + copy it can rank higher.

I have had 0 contact with this towing company but decided to whip up a new design and it looks something like this:
http:// 165.227.170.214 (there's a space after http:// because thefastlaneforum is formatting it really stupidly)

I am going to call this towing company this week to present my new design and I just wonder if there is something you think I should do differently. (I know it's in a foreign language but you can get the gist of the website if you just google translate it)

Is there something you'd do differently? How's the "sales funnel"?

Thanks a million

(ps. the copy could be better, I know)
 
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Fox

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Hey @Fox - I have since reading your previous forum thread been knee deep in learning web design. I started googling "towing + stockholm" and other cities and found this as a first target:
www.assistansbrgaren-4nb.se/

They rank well (bottom on first page) and I figured with some better SEO + copy it can rank higher.

I have had 0 contact with this towing company but decided to whip up a new design and it looks something like this:
http:// 165.227.170.214 (there's a space after http:// because thefastlaneforum is formatting it really stupidly)

I am going to call this towing company this week to present my new design and I just wonder if there is something you think I should do differently. (I know it's in a foreign language but you can get the gist of the website if you just google translate it)

Is there something you'd do differently? How's the "sales funnel"?

Thanks a million

(ps. the copy could be better, I know)

It can be harder to sell sometimes when you have already done the work.
I have seen some people make it work but it usually backfires. I think it looks like a generic solution when you already have it built.

Either way I would call them directly and see what they think. Focus on the business and what would help them. If I had to guess I would say they would be more interested in reducing work rather than directly increasing sales (but that is possible also if they do breakdown towing etc). Maybe some sections on how people can collect their cars, what the policies are, directions and times to come collect etc. <<< reduce all the common issues that require them to waste time.

Let us know how it goes.
 

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Hi Fox, I'd like to thank you for your help. You're already helping me change my life.

I spent yesterday cold calling local businesses and restaurant's asking if they need web design and SEO help, and finally a Mexican restaurant agreed to pay me $250. I'm supposed to call him back today but I'm nervous because I've never really done anything aside from that Udemy course. Should I still take the money and build him a website even though i'm a noob, or should I keep practicing and learning until I'm ready?
 

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Hi @Fox, what do you do when a client switches up their needs for a site after purchasing and modifying a template?

For example, what if a company is happy with the design, is settled on the budget and what will be on the site, but then, mid-development, decide they want to keep the site layout but add a customer service chat system, when the HTML template you've already designed around doesn't have that feature. What would you do in this situation?
 
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BD64

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Hey, I got a bit of an urgent question. I have a client who is super interested but I have on concern and that is maintaining or even improving their SEO rank. My plan is to leave their current site up while I build a new one for them, after they are satisfied we will then just swap my code into their existing domain.

Right now they are on the first page of google searched for <niche> + area and I don't want them to lose that. I know the basics of SEO but How do I ensure they keep or improve ranking? Is there a way to know before going through with the site swap?

Also they mentioned something about having an authentication with google for their associated webpages. I'm not really sure what she is talking about here. Any insight would be great.

This is my first potential client so I'm really trying to over-deliver and make sure it is all done right. Any feedback would be appreciated, as am trying to get on the phone with them ASAP. @Fox + anyone else, thanks.

Edit/Update:

Spoke on the phone with some grumpy IT fella who made their current (shitty) site. 30 minutes later get an email saying that I'm not a fit because they want Wordpress (never said I couldn't do this) and that they needed extensive plug-ins (ain't those just really easy in WP anyway?). So look like I'm 0/3 with potential clients. Back to square 1 :(
 
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Fox

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Hey, I got a bit of an urgent question. I have a client who is super interested but I have on concern and that is maintaining or even improving their SEO rank. My plan is to leave their current site up while I build a new one for them, after they are satisfied we will then just swap my code into their existing domain.

Right now they are on the first page of google searched for <niche> + area and I don't want them to lose that. I know the basics of SEO but How do I ensure they keep or improve ranking? Is there a way to know before going through with the site swap?

Also they mentioned something about having an authentication with google for their associated webpages. I'm not really sure what she is talking about here. Any insight would be great.

This is my first potential client so I'm really trying to over-deliver and make sure it is all done right. Any feedback would be appreciated, as am trying to get on the phone with them ASAP. @Fox + anyone else, thanks.

Edit/Update:

Spoke on the phone with some grumpy IT fella who made their current (shitty) site. 30 minutes later get an email saying that I'm not a fit because they want Wordpress (never said I couldn't do this) and that they needed extensive plug-ins (ain't those just really easy in WP anyway?). So look like I'm 0/3 with potential clients. Back to square 1 :(


That sucks. In short - if you make it a better client experience and cover some coding basics you will keep or improve the SEO. That is a super basic version but a good general rule. Also you don't want to lose page links that they might have built so you need to keep that in mind.

SEO though is a huge topic and there are so many resources to learn it online for free. MOZ has a lot of content for example.

In short - don't worry about them losing SEO if it is a normal enough site (not an ecommerce site with 500 back links) and if you plan on doing some basic work to make sure everything is okay (which I am sure you do).
 

Fox

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Hi @Fox, what do you do when a client switches up their needs for a site after purchasing and modifying a template?

For example, what if a company is happy with the design, is settled on the budget and what will be on the site, but then, mid-development, decide they want to keep the site layout but add a customer service chat system, when the HTML template you've already designed around doesn't have that feature. What would you do in this situation?

I try my best to help them out. You should be picking design though based around needs so you really should have things like this covered before you start.
BUT this does happen so when it does...
- try my best to work with what I have already created
- if not then price the changes and let them know what that means to them
- pick the better option of the two > start again or continue with what they have paid for

Given your example though I am sure there are solutions. I did a quick google and this seems to work... Home
HTML is highly versatile so usually there are some easy changes you can make to create a solution.
 
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Fox

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Hi Fox, I'd like to thank you for your help. You're already helping me change my life.

I spent yesterday cold calling local businesses and restaurant's asking if they need web design and SEO help, and finally a Mexican restaurant agreed to pay me $250. I'm supposed to call him back today but I'm nervous because I've never really done anything aside from that Udemy course. Should I still take the money and build him a website even though i'm a noob, or should I keep practicing and learning until I'm ready?

Good on you for taking action!
Actually taking action and then facing the problems is the sign of a real entrepreneur (as opposed to thinking what might happen and doing nothing).

I would build it with the agreement that they only pay you if they like it more than their current site.
That way its win-win and real experience for you either way.

If you do get the job let us know and we can help you through it.
 

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Hypothetical question so hypothetical answer...

Oil prices are globally low so city hall are getting squeezed for the high prices they were paying subcontractors a few years ago. Reelection is coming up and the current major has to show that all contracts were awarded to the best parties for the right prices. Enter your client.

You find out the above information during a phone call discussing how they get the majority of their contracts. You also know that on their bidding applications (multiple per month) they include a footer with information about the company. You also know these are publicly available and while viewed by those awarding the bids they are also viewed by those trying to see if the major/city hall is spending money in the best way.

You create a plan for a website that will focus on the showing how your client runs a very efficient business producing great results far below the cost of their competitors. You show they use cost pricing systems designed to reduce wastage and consistently complete projects under schedule. They also only hire workers who also support the city and follow similar practices. You show they are the best choice for delivering results within tighter budgets. While the competitors sites also have a little on these topics you present a plan for a website that will go in depth showing case studies, graphs, testimonials, and real data.

This clearly makes a lot of sense for your client and they have been spending a fortune on new bids with very little results (remember times are tougher so the process has got more competitive). Each potential contract is worth $300,000 to $5,000,000. They are happy to spend the $20,000 investment for a website with such a clear plan.

You then build this site and advice your client how to best use it during their bidding process. Now they not only focus on the cost savings (one win) but also on letting city hall know that this is the best political move that safeguards them further political exposure (second win). When it comes time to award the next bidding process who is more likely to win?

Of course this is highly fictional but you asked for one example. The thing is though there are millions of ways to do something similar and add just as much value. It starts with looking at it in the right way.

Meanwhile Jimmy McColdSpam is trying to get pass the secretary so he can let them know they are only showing up second for some google keywords.

Holy shit... Rep+++
 

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Hey Fox, I'm still brushing up on my j querie skills and PHP. My next step is to build 2 free websites (as well as my own site) for my friends using customized HTML/CSS and word press. I hope to get this done by next week.

I looked at the competition in my city and their pricing is all over the place that I would not know where to start once I start cold calling and emailing. Some of these developers are charging a monthly rate instead of a flat rate for a website.Some as high as 750$/month!!...Also, what about the legal aspects? Did you register a business name first before getting clients? What about taxes in your province? Thanks for your help man.
 

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Hey Fox, I'm still brushing up on my j querie skills and PHP. My next step is to build 2 free websites (as well as my own site) for my friends using customized HTML/CSS and word press. I hope to get this done by next week.

I looked at the competition in my city and their pricing is all over the place that I would not know where to start once I start cold calling and emailing. Some of these developers are charging a monthly rate instead of a flat rate for a website.Some as high as 750$/month!!...Also, what about the legal aspects? Did you register a business name first before getting clients? What about taxes in your province? Thanks for your help man.

Don't worry about what anyone else is doing. Pricing should be 100% your own call. Keep turning on amazing sites and you will soon have a very good feel for what your value is and what you can charge. When people are making $$$$$$ from your websites and you have no shortage of warm leads it is very easy to start upping those prices.

Legally I would just get going. Keep records and invoices and once the business is somewhat stable then set it all up legally. Doing it too early is just a form of action faking. Try sell a few bigger sites first and then make it all legit. I am not a lawyer though so that is only my suggestion.
 

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Hey man,

Still going strong with web design as well thanks to your older thread!

Throughout my journey, I clearly screwed up while building my foundation. That video you posted clearly resonated with me. At first, I tried to help out anybody within my network and who "needed" a website. You clearly explained why that can keep you stuck and limit your progress to getting bigger and better clients. So for anyone reading this, watch that video and follow exactly what he says.

A quote of yours really got my attention:

"I will show dozens of ways I can add value and remove nearly all of the risk."

"I also reversed all the risk in multiple different ways."

"They can't lose and stand to gain a lot >>> deal was made."


I agree with you 100% on what you said and thought this was a genius move. When people can clearly see they have all to gain and nothing to lose, it makes your offer irresistible and selling your service a lot easier.

By any chance do you have an example of "removing risk"?

I have seen this done in SEO and PPC before, but never in web design, so I'm curious as to how this approach is done within our field.


"Bottom line > every owner is sick of generic business messages. A highly tailored, planned out sales pitch with huge, real value gives you ar every high % chance of doing business together."

"It sounds like a lot of work (and it does take some time for sure) but it is the difference between 5 sales calls a month making great money and 50 sales calls a day and scraping by. Once you get how this works it is very easy to make deals."


I agree as well.

I quoted this because I was wondering what has worked best for you in terms of prospecting to people you don't know.

Within the facebook group, I have seen email examples of group members sending businesses a message, showcasing their problems, and inviting them to a call.

Do you think this is still the best way to go about it? Or throughout this time have you found a better approach?


Hope all is well,
 
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Josh Harmsen

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Before I ask my question, I just want to add some background info on my current state. I’ve been designing for about 5 years now but my main focus is UI Design. It’s pretty close to Web Design but also is sort of different. My question is, how exactly did you reach out to customers and companies, or did they reach out to you? Did you have a portfolio to help you?
 

Azure

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Before I ask my question, I just want to add some background info on my current state. I’ve been designing for about 5 years now but my main focus is UI Design. It’s pretty close to Web Design but also is sort of different. My question is, how exactly did you reach out to customers and companies, or did they reach out to you? Did you have a portfolio to help you?

GOLD - How to Learn Code, Start a Web Company, $15k+ per month within 9 months

Read that first, it may be some help.
 

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