Lex DeVille's - I Deleted My Upwork Account...

[Trixii]

I've just returned to this forum after a couple of years and had to read this thread! I want to add a little something to the 'it can't be done' debate. I also started an Upwork account based on SinisterLex's original thread two (?) years ago and I picked up a few jobs (mostly content, some basic copywriting) for 2/3 months using 'you' based proposals.

I did not put a lot of time into the applications but I did read and respond to the job descriptions. I am not an especially skilled writer. I had one sample on my profile. Everything about my process was mediocre, and I was heading towards a decent full time income by month three.

I moved away from Upwork shortly after but I have since been contacted by three of my previous clients asking me to do more work for them - one was really quite persistent. It really drove home the message about value/money - I simply offered more value than my competition and money (almost literally) chased me!

Others have shown what can be done if you really work at it.

 

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[Andrea Lisi]

I'm deleting my Upwork account to start over from scratch to prove the freelance market isn't as saturated as everyone believes. The reason you can't get work isn't "market saturation". It isn't "fake" clients. It isn't Upwork's algorithms being "mean" to you or that you're brand new and don't have any feedback or a portfolio. It's that you aren't doing the work to stand out and help people.

You can still go from $0.00 to $1,000+ per month or more and get your first taste of sales and entrepreneurship fast. But it won't happen by spamming applications hoping something sticks. It won't come from getting mad at Upwork because you feel entitled to gigs. It won't happen by doing anything other than helping other people get sh*t done.

So I'm going to delete my Upwork account in about a week when I finish work on my copywriting crash course. For now this thread is a placeholder. I'll video document progress through YouTube and post here, so if you want to tag along, feel free to watch this thread and maybe pick up some pointers that help you in some way.

Later.

I started following the forum in 2015 but never had the time to actually contribute.
Talking Upwork I guess my experience mught be useful, especially for those who are not native English speakers.

I'm Italian and when I read TMF for the first time two years ago I was a broke insurance agent... I had no clue whatsoever on how to start my entrepreneurial journey, no money, no background... but after reading the book I was damn sure I had to do it.

I decided I wanted to start online and work from home, I was already doing some translation work to pay the rent and the bills, but I found it boring and felt I needed to let my creative side emerge and still do some sales work, so I chose the copywriting road.

At the time i was just studying the classics and did not know there was any market in my country for this kind of skills, so I jumped on Upwork trying to get some jobs in the English-speaking market...

I actually did, mainly following Daniel Di Piazza's advice on video proposals...
...I even made some friends in his "Freelance Domination" community, some of them we even met around the world couple times..

It didn't feel right, though, it was just that I saw freelancing as the only viable intermediate way to get to actual entrepreneurship.

And after the first few bucks on Upwork (like, 30$ to write a buyer's guide) I realized "this doesn't make sense: too much competition, my English is not enough to compete with native speakers, something's gotta change.."

So in the meantime I started my own blog on copywriting in Italian, contacted some people on linkedin and got my first gigs outside Upwork...
still I got paid 40€ for a 1500 word article and less than 200€ for an entire funnel..

Well.. I saw these guys who hired me were even younger than me and making 10k/year from each client, so I thought... I gotta find my own clients, on a retainer.
I grew my blog, basically from social networking cause I still had no money to invest (but I was able for the first time to sustain myself and getting paid to learn..) and then, 6 months since I had left Upwork, I was ready to come back...

...but only to HIRE freelancers.

And God that felt soo good...

My inbound marketing strategy had started to pull off and I was discovering a market segment nobody had seen before, and from that in less than another year I built my first 297€ infoproduct, started speaking and getting paid to do it, and costantly raising prices for my services.

And I have a team of 4 people that I manage.

I mean, it sucks because I know the way it is now it ain't a scalable business yet.. I can't see big profits yet...
but I have a little budget now I can use to try entering other niches and start fresh with a more entrepreneurial and less freelance-minded attitude.

That's the best part... it's not easy but it's getting better each month, and even when revenue and profit may go down, I KNOW I can make it anyway...

I know I will never go back asking for jobs...

In the meantime I travelled to the US and to Africa and around Europe several times...

...and I mean, even though Upwork was a good learning experience, all the good things started happening WHEN I LEFT
and I built my own brand, platform and marketing.

 

[Lex DeVille]

I started following the forum in 2015 but never had the time to actually contribute.
Talking Upwork I guess my experience mught be useful, especially for those who are not native English speakers.

I'm Italian and when I read TMF for the first time two years ago I was a broke insurance agent... I had no clue whatsoever on how to start my entrepreneurial journey, no money, no background... but after reading the book I was damn sure I had to do it.

I decided I wanted to start online and work from home, I was already doing some translation work to pay the rent and the bills, but I found it boring and felt I needed to let my creative side emerge and still do some sales work, so I chose the copywriting road.

At the time i was just studying the classics and did not know there was any market in my country for this kind of skills, so I jumped on Upwork trying to get some jobs in the English-speaking market...

I actually did, mainly following Daniel Di Piazza's advice on video proposals...
...I even made some friends in his "Freelance Domination" community, some of them we even met around the world couple times..

It didn't feel right, though, it was just that I saw freelancing as the only viable intermediate way to get to actual entrepreneurship.

And after the first few bucks on Upwork (like, 30$ to write a buyer's guide) I realized "this doesn't make sense: too much competition, my English is not enough to compete with native speakers, something's gotta change.."

So in the meantime I started my own blog on copywriting in Italian, contacted some people on linkedin and got my first gigs outside Upwork...
still I got paid 40€ for a 1500 word article and less than 200€ for an entire funnel..

Well.. I saw these guys who hired me were even younger than me and making 10k/year from each client, so I thought... I gotta find my own clients, on a retainer.
I grew my blog, basically from social networking cause I still had no money to invest (but I was able for the first time to sustain myself and getting paid to learn..) and then, 6 months since I had left Upwork, I was ready to come back...

...but only to HIRE freelancers.

And God that felt soo good...

My inbound marketing strategy had started to pull off and I was discovering a market segment nobody had seen before, and from that in less than another year I built my first 297€ infoproduct, started speaking and getting paid to do it, and costantly raising prices for my services.

And I have a team of 4 people that I manage.

I mean, it sucks because I know the way it is now it ain't a scalable business yet.. I can't see big profits yet...
but I have a little budget now I can use to try entering other niches and start fresh with a more entrepreneurial and less freelance-minded attitude.

That's the best part... it's not easy but it's getting better each month, and even when revenue and profit may go down, I KNOW I can make it anyway...

I know I will never go back asking for jobs...

In the meantime I travelled to the US and to Africa and around Europe several times...

...and I mean, even though Upwork was a good learning experience, all the good things started happening WHEN I LEFT
and I built my own brand, platform and marketing.

This doesn't belong in this thread.

I say that because it's anti pretty much everything this thread is about.

This isn't for those who want to go beyond Upwork.

It's for those just getting started who have doubts about whether it's possible to make money on Upwork.

I picked up multiple clients (this year alone) from Upwork worth a lot more than $10k a year.

Your post would be better in a thread detailing your own progress.

 

[Lex DeVille]

Update time.

I pretty much stopped with Upwork after reaching full-time income again. I've had a little extra free time this week so I decided to pick up some extra work in a different area from my normal niche. This led to some pretty crazy events happening. Some bad. Some good.

Client 1

The first client I applied to responded pretty fast. He wanted to get on Skype, but didn't want to do a call. Text chat is a red flag for me, and usually I drop clients right there. For some reason I ignored that and after we talked I offered $100 per page. He tried to counter. Using my Super Villain magic I rejected his counter and secured the gig.



From our convo I could tell he didn't know jack shit about copy or his female market. So I polled my own female network and came up with the info I needed to craft a product description that would make his goods shine. I spent several hours on it, then sent it to him on Upwork.



Instead of trusting me as an expert, he wrote the comment above. A guy who doesn't know how to write copy is telling me that my copy doesn't sell his leggings (he never tested it). The product is for women. A guy wouldn't buy it. So of course it wouldn't blow him away. So I ended the contract right there and ditched his a$$.

Client 2

After that I was feeling kind of bummed about writing. I'm 100% sure that last description was killer, but rejection still sucks. Anyway, a little later another one of my proposals followed up. She LOVED the FREE sample I sent the day before, and asked if we could get on a call. I agreed.

During the call we talked about her needs and about her store's challenges. She said she needed help with around 93 product descriptions now, and 50 to 80 every 2 weeks moving forward, plus weekly newsletters and other copy.

When I was sure I could help her, I ended up offering a rate of $100 per product description up to 500 words. She only wanted 100 word descriptions, and tried to suggest $20 per. I explained that the price is the price per page, not per word.

Ultimately there were a lot of long pauses and finally she agreed. When I got off the phone with her, I flipped over to my calculator and ran the numbers. 93 x $100 = $9,300. Add in the weekly newsletters and it easily crosses $10k. And that's when it hit me. 50-80 descriptions every 2 weeks. This client is not a $10k/year client. She's a $120,000+ client.

She's the single biggest copy client I've pulled. Straight from Upwork.

Key Takeaways:

• Don't work with people who won't get on a call
• If a client turns out to be shit, end the contract before you deliver the work
• You can't get high rates if you don't pitch high rates
• You can't get the biggest best clients without getting on a call
• On the call I slowed my speech wayyyy down to match the client
• Just because someone counters with a lowball rate doesn't mean you have to accept

 

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[Ronak]

I never posted about it, but last year, I experimented with Upwork just for the heck of it. Fresh account, no portfolio, etc. Just glancing over your posts and roughly applying your guidelines, I submitted a handful of proposals over about 30 mins or so.

Without really trying made over $500 working about 9 hours on stuff that was actually enjoyable. Not actively pursuing it anymore, but its good to know that there's a way to make quick cash if I were so inclined.

So, out of the blue, a former client messages me frantically for help. I didn't really want to do it, plus I'm actually on vacation, but at the same time wanted to help. I quoted triple my last time's rate for what she estimated would take 2 hours. Of course, it needed much much more than 2 hours, which I told her. "No problem, take all day if you have to."

Ended up taking 9 hours and involved an all-nighter while on vacation. Honestly wouldn't have gone for it had I known it would take that long, and my wife's not all too happy with me working on vacation, but the $1000 extra bucks for a day's work should help her feel better

What? Upwork is only for 3rd world workers making $2/hour?

 

[Sequential]

Will you do the work or will you outsource it?

I have hired people on Upwork and paid quite a lot for it and then recieved work that was blatently written by a $10/hr content company it even had their basic "we thank you and congratulate you" starter line that the freelancer hadn't even bothered to edit out. How does one find someone like you who is legit vs someone who pretends?

Update time.

I pretty much stopped with Upwork after reaching full-time income again. I've had a little extra free time this week so I decided to pick up some extra work in a different area from my normal niche. This led to some pretty crazy events happening. Some bad. Some good.

Client 1

The first client I applied to responded pretty fast. He wanted to get on Skype, but didn't want to do a call. Text chat is a red flag for me, and usually I drop clients right there. For some reason I ignored that and after we talked I offered $100 per page. He tried to counter. Using my Super Villain magic I rejected his counter and secured the gig.

View attachment 16036

From our convo I could tell he didn't know jack shit about copy or his female market. So I polled my own female network and came up with the info I needed to craft a product description that would make his goods shine. I spent several hours on it, then sent it to him on Upwork.

View attachment 16037

Instead of trusting me as an expert, he wrote the comment above. A guy who doesn't know how to write copy is telling me that my copy doesn't sell his leggings (he never tested it). The product is for women. A guy wouldn't buy it. So of course it wouldn't blow him away. So I ended the contract right there and ditched his a$$.

Client 2

After that I was feeling kind of bummed about writing. I'm 100% sure that last description was killer, but rejection still sucks. Anyway, a little later another one of my proposals followed up. She LOVED the FREE sample I sent the day before, and asked if we could get on a call. I agreed.

During the call we talked about her needs and about her store's challenges. She said she needed help with around 93 product descriptions now, and 50 to 80 every 2 weeks moving forward, plus weekly newsletters and other copy.

When I was sure I could help her, I ended up offering a rate of $100 per product description up to 500 words. She only wanted 100 word descriptions, and tried to suggest $20 per. I explained that the price is the price per page, not per word.

Ultimately there were a lot of long pauses and finally she agreed. When I got off the phone with her, I flipped over to my calculator and ran the numbers. 93 x $100 = $9,300. Add in the weekly newsletters and it easily crosses $10k. And that's when it hit me. 50-80 descriptions every 2 weeks. This client is not a $10k/year client. She's a $120,000+ client.

She's the single biggest copy client I've pulled. Straight from Upwork.

Key Takeaways:

• Don't work with people who won't get on a call
• If a client turns out to be shit, end the contract before you deliver the work
• You can't get high rates if you don't pitch high rates
• You can't get the biggest best clients without getting on a call
• On the call I slowed my speech wayyyy down to match the client
• Just because someone counters with a lowball rate doesn't mean you have to accept

 

[Lex DeVille]

Will you do the work or will you outsource it?

I have hired people on Upwork and paid quite a lot for it and then recieved work that was blatently written by a $10/hr content company it even had their basic "we thank you and congratulate you" starter line that the freelancer hadn't even bothered to edit out. How does one find someone like you who is legit vs someone who pretends?

I would hire the work out, but only to people I'm 100% sure can deliver similar quality to my own writing. That said, the client seems flaky, demanding rapid turn-around, and posting product description drafts to her website, but not updating milestones so she can pay for them. She paid $400 for the first 4, but took the drafts for the next 2 and isn't responding.

So what looked like a great client may be just another disaster. I'll give her a few more days before I file a DMCA claim with Shopify to have the writing removed. It's only $200 but, it's still a shitty thing to do. It's possible she just forgot, but in my experience, that's usually not the case.

 

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[Lex DeVille]

How does one find someone like you who is legit vs someone who pretends?

To answer your question, the best way is to ask. Usually that means getting on a Skype or phone call with the freelancer. Confirm that they'll be the one writing and that they'll get your approval before outsourcing any work. It's also useful to have a service agreement for the freelancer to sign that details what they can and can't do and what you expect from them and what they can expect from you. This way it's clear cut. There's no confusion.

 

[Lex DeVille]

This came through my Upwork inbox this morning.

---

---
I'm being pre-screened for an Upwork Pro client. If I meet the pre-screen qualifications I'll move on to the second round ( the real application). I've never picked up an Upwork Pro client before, so this is kind of exciting. Minimum budget is $5,000 and there's no set work hours as long as the work gets done and reported weekly.

Regular freelancers (even top-rated) can't apply to Pro jobs. They're invite only. One more reason there's no competition when you create real value. Also no saturation. Remember, I only restarted my profile back in January. How many 1,000's of freelancers must have earned more and billed more hours than me? A lot.

 

[Lex DeVille]

Been changing things up. Grabbing gigs in different areas. I'm bored with writing the same thing all the time. So I started branching out. Sending proposals to other industries. 5 candidacies + 5 new clients so far this month ranging women's fashion to tech startups and even offline blue collar businesses.



Despite a bio that's anything but professional, and a grungy profile pic, clients still hire me. This says clients don't care much about your bio as long as it's clean. The most important thing is perceived value.

What does perceived value look like on Upwork in 2017?

1) Y.O.U. Focus
2) Showing How You Help
3) Credibility

The first 2 are enough to land lower budget gigs. For anything at higher rates, you'll need to add credibility markers. Big names you've worked with. Publicity. Sales you've generated, etc.

It all comes down to perceived value in your proposal, because clients won't give you the time of day if they suspect even for one second that you can't deliver.

In about a month I'll launch a new site with in depth freelance, copywriting, influence & persuasion and other training for less than you spend on Starbucks a month. I'll post a forum ad once the developers are done with it for anyone following who's looking to step up your game.

 

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[Mr.Chaos]

Do not want to thread jack, but also didn't want to create a new thread.

I just want to say thanks to Lex for providing the seeds that got me into copywriting late last year.
Since then I have worked my way up from small gigs to larger gigs to my own specialized agency which I am now shifting to a productized service. Following lex's advice and breadcrumbs, I have gotten to the point where I must turn-down work.

For those still on the fence, what I currently do is not what I started off doing but taking action, any kind of action led me here.

Just start!

Thank's Lex!

 

[Readerly]

Hi Lex,

I've been pouring over this thread the past couple days and getting a lot out of it. I've used Upwork in the past as a client for various ventures. I've hired freelancers to do SEO, programming, publicity, and graphic design. My experience with that has been largely positive. I've considered signing on as a freelancer myself, especially when money has been tight, which it pretty much has been for the past three years. But I've succumbed to many of the prejudices that have come up in this thread. I've never followed through on the impulse.

Most of those you've inspired with your delete-my-account-and-start-from-scratch experiment who've reported back to this thread with updates are copywriters like you. For the past year, I've been teaching myself how to be a full stack web developer. I took an online bootcamp at Udemy.com. I learned JavaScript, Node.js, and SQL. I built an MVP for a niche industry that had a successful pilot launch, with a follow-up pilot in the offing. By INSIDERS standards, I wouldn't say that I'm "full stack" just yet. There are holes in my skillset. I'm actively working to plug them. But what I am is absolutely willing to solve problems when they arise. If there's a new feature to be added to serve a customer need that requires a new tool or framework, I'll learn it and then execute.

You've stressed here that you don't have to be an expert at the skill you market, just motivated to learn as you go as you serve client needs and add value. I'm taking up your challenge to start from scratch on Upwork and see what happens. I'm going to do it in the "Web, Mobile & Software Dev" category. My profile is currently at 40%. My game plan: reread this thread and further process your and other contributors' tips on how to work the Upwork system; finish my profile; start bidding on jobs. I'll post back here shortly with a progress update.

Thanks again for your inspiring experiment!
Sean

UPDATES

9/29/17: Upwork profile is now published. The plan is to apply for at least 1 job every workday next week.

10/2/17: Submitted my first job proposal today: writing blog articles for a company that sells a highly technical service.

10/3/17: Second proposal submitted--for a SaaS user manual.

10/4/17: Applied to a local part-time web developer opportunity outside of Upwork. Before writing the cover letter, I came to the realization that I was doing it all wrong. The core of my previous cover letters was mostly me, me, me. I wrote this one structured like the job proposals the way Lex recommends. I focused on their requirements and how I could exceed expectations accomplishing them.

10/5/17: Submitted an Upwork proposal for a web development project. No word from the proposals submitted earlier in the week. Tweaked my profile, lowering my hourly rate and experience level to intermediate.

 

[Readerly]

So this is a final update on my little experiment with Upwork inspired by @SinisterLex. As I mentioned in the previous post, I resolved to submit one proposal each workday last week. I set up my profile as a "full stack web developer" specializing in building minimum viable products (MVPs) using the Node.js stack.

On Monday, I submitted a proposal to write a few blog posts for a company that sells non-destructive examination services. In addition to IT, I also have a technical writing background. The job appealed to me. I thought it might be a good way to get my feet wet. So I wrote a proposal speaking directly to the job requirements. My profile, though, probably sent a mixed-message.

On Tuesday, I submitted my second proposal--for a job writing a user manual for a data analytics web app.

On Wednesday, I slacked off. Instead of submitting a proposal on Upwork, I submitted an application for a job here in Portland to work part-time as a front end web developer at a real estate financial services company.

On Thursday, I found a job posting on Upwork for a web development job that I felt confident I could do well. I tweaked my profile, lowering my hourly rate to $50/hour and my skill level from expert to intermediate. My bid for the job: $20/hour.

On Friday, I slacked off again. No proposals submitted.

But on Friday evening, I got an invitation to interview from the client who posted the web development job. It was clear from the tone of his message that he was ready to hire me. We used Upwork video to chat on Saturday and that conviction grew. He basically said I could have as much work as I wanted for the next few months. Basically, he offered me a full-time gig. Even though I had bid a relatively low hourly rate--again, explaining it as just wanting a chance to demonstrate the value I could deliver--this one job would certainly have cleared the $1000/month threshold.

So there you have it: 3 job proposals, 1 offer, worth well over $1000 a month. I can attest now, as Lex has repeatedly proven in the copywriting space, that the same thing Lex did can be done in the web development space. In one week, I went from a complete newbie on Upwork to a decent wage.

Upwork is definitely not saturated!

Sean

PS I turned the job down. I'm not willing to commit to a full-time freelance gig right now. I want to focus on my CENTS business. To earn some side cash, I plan to sell my services directly to clients, cutting out the Upwork middleman and his hefty 20% cut.

PPS Here's my Upwork profile overview:

Do you have a brilliant idea for a web or mobile app? But you're not a developer, you don't have a ton of cash to burn, or you're not sure if your app will get traction in a crowded marketplace. If so, I can help. I'll work with you to build and deploy a quality minimum viable product (MVP) of your app.

To build your web app, I'll use the open source, highly scalable stack Node.js. For your mobile app, the development framework I'll use is LiveCode, which lets you use one code base to publish an app to both the Apple App and Google Play Stores. With these powerful tools, I'll help you bring your app vision to life rapidly and cheaply. When your app gets traction, you'll then be a strong position to rapidly scale it up to a thriving business.

Why me? I have over 2 decades of business IT experience. I've been building custom apps for over 3 years, apps with proven track records in the marketplace. I live and breath MVP validation.

Like you, I care about building a technically sound app that's designed, from its back end to the user interface, with a compelling user experience as its heart. Like you, I care about how an app can succeed as the foundation of a profitable business.

To protect your idea, I'm happy to sign any non-compete or non-disclosure agreement you require. And as an accomplished writer and former teacher, I'll make every effort to clarify technical details using accessible English.

To see if we're a good fit, let's chat today. I'll follow up with you within 48 hours with a detailed proposal that includes a draft user experience flow chart, database schema, and app architecture diagram--free of charge.​

PPPS Here's the proposal that got me the job:

Hi [redacted],​

From what I gather, you've developed a new web app to help your prospective customers manage client accounts within Quickbooks Online. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you're using the Quickbooks API. Your customers are accountants and bookkeepers. This will be a powerful tool for them to manage their client portfolios. It sounds really promising.

You mention in your job description that you're using Node.js on the back end and Vue for the front end. Your lead developer works on the build in GitLab, then pushes releases to DigitalOcean. I'm curious: which database are you using on the back end? You're looking to add another developer, who'd work with your lead to push builds out to production more frequently. It sounds like you're ramping up development to keep up with growth. That's a great position to be in. It also sounds like you're bootstrapping this venture, so you want to keep your burn to a minimum. I think I can help.

Here's what I can do for you:

* Under your and your lead developer's direction, take ownership of building new features for scheduled releases on short deadlines
* Do quality assurance testing to eliminate bugs and avoid potential "rage click" situations with your users
* Implement UI improvements based on user feedback
* Once I get familiar with the app and your users, suggest enhancements to the user experience that add value
* Write technical documentation--help files, a user manual, tips & tricks, knowledge base docs
* Help insure that the back end build is using the optimal Node.js design patterns

Why me? I have over two decades of accomplishment in IT and technical writing. I've been developing in Node.js for the past two years. Most recently, I built a fully functional learning management system MVP for driver ed schools using Node.js, MySQL, and LiveCode, a hybrid mobile app development framework. Although I haven't worked with Vue, I'm familiar with other leading virtual DOM frameworks, namely, React and Angular. I had a look at Vue's documentation. It looks cool. I think I'd pick it up pretty quickly.

Technically, I don’t meet two of the requirements for your job, since I just got started on Upwork. I'm excited to get my feet wet here, though. I'm happy to walk you through my most recent Node.js project so you can assess my coding chops. The hourly rate I suggested in this proposal reflects the idea that I'm happy to offer you a discount, given my newness to Upwork. I'm more that willing to work on your project on a temporary trial basis, if you choose, so we can see if it's a good fit.

My Skype handle is below. I'm available to chat during the day or in the evening. Shoot me a message when you’re ready to talk.

Regards,
Sean Miller​

 

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[TStrike]

Hey Lex, amazing thread here.

I tried your tips on Upwork just for the heck of it. With no tests, no portfolio, and no feedback, I submitted 14 proposals.

Here's the catch.

I put my starting price at $30/hour.

Every proposal I sent, I put my price higher than what they budgeted for the job.

By using a value proposition and using the word "I" as little as possible...

I got an offer. The site will take me 6 hours by my estimation. The owner is getting back to me this afternoon on which pricing package he wants. The pricing options I gave him were $497, $897, and $1197 AND I'll be paid monthly for maintenance work if I want.

So even if Upwork takes 25% (or is it 20%?) of my lowest price, I'm making $372.75 in 6 hours.

And that's worst case scenario.

This thread works, people.

Thanks Lex. You write some gems.

 

[Lex DeVille]

Just closed an $8,000 deal on Upwork.

Still saturated?

 

[Andy Black]

Just closed an $8,000 deal on Upwork.

Still saturated?

View attachment 16886

No way. Must be photoshop.

 

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[Raoul Duke]

Just closed an $8,000 deal on Upwork.

Still saturated?

View attachment 16886

@Ayanle Farah


Totally saturated. The lies!!!! How dare thee!!!!

 

[DesignerOne.]

LIES, ABSOLUTE LIES, don't listen to this man! He doesn't get it!

It's not like I've made about 1200 as of recent in upwork, and have another 600 in the pipeline and sealed tonight...or did I?

 

[ZF Lee]

No way. Must be photoshop.

And gotten the photoshop help from another freelancer on upwork...

Oh wait...

 

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[Ayanle Farah]

@Ayanle Farah


Totally saturated. The lies!!!! How dare thee!!!!

Very impressive.

 

[Readerly]

Hi @SinisterLex,

I just submitted a graphic design job on Upwork. I'm starting to get annoyed by all the copy-and-paste me-me-me proposals. I'd like to point these sorry souls to an article or blog post by you that sums up your great approach to Upwork proposal writing.

Would you post a link here in reply to such an article, if you have one available online? I'm asking for a TL;DR version, in particular, because I'm guessing most of these folks don't have the proper mindset to read through your excellent threads here, even if they'd benefit immensely from the investment.

 

[Lex DeVille]

Hi @SinisterLex,

I just submitted a graphic design job on Upwork. I'm starting to get annoyed by all the copy-and-paste me-me-me proposals. I'd like to point these sorry souls to an article or blog post by you that sums up your great approach to Upwork proposal writing.

Would you post a link here in reply to such an article, if you have one available online? I'm asking for a TL;DR version, in particular, because I'm guessing most of these folks don't have the proper mindset to read through your excellent threads here, even if they'd benefit immensely from the investment.

I don't have summed up articles on these topics. The people who aren't willing to read the long version probably won't gather any brilliant takeaways from a short one. There are some shorter videos on my YouTube channel though. SinisterLex

 

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[lowtek]

Hi @SinisterLex,

I just submitted a graphic design job on Upwork. I'm starting to get annoyed by all the copy-and-paste me-me-me proposals. I'd like to point these sorry souls to an article or blog post by you that sums up your great approach to Upwork proposal writing.

Would you post a link here in reply to such an article, if you have one available online? I'm asking for a TL;DR version, in particular, because I'm guessing most of these folks don't have the proper mindset to read through your excellent threads here, even if they'd benefit immensely from the investment.

One thing I always do when I'm posting jobs is that I make a long and detailed job posting and then put a command at the end. Something along the lines of "start your proposal with the phrase <X>". Anybody that doesn't gets their proposal archived. It's a quick way of getting rid of the copy paste me me me crowd.

 

[ZF Lee]

Okay, it only took half a day, but I finally got it deleted. F me, I can't believe it was such a pain in the a$$ to delete my account. Glad I decided to do it now instead of waiting for next week.

This video is mostly running through basic setup. Still a few good takeaways. I got approved in like 10 seconds, so if you've been rejected at sign up you may wanna watch.

lol, told you guys people are saying this...

The problem ain't the system. The problem is your mind.

But maybe you're right and I'm wrong. Maybe I won't get any clients and won't go any higher than a few dollars.

Guess we'll see. >)

@SinisterLex,


Took me an hour to wait, but I GOT THROUGH. Upwork accepted my profile and opened the gates for me!

I applied afresh yesterday, and just added the basic details similar to what you espoused in your video.

Then I got this:
Bummer, right?

I then thought of two options:

1. Quit and just give up----no, F*ck that.

(does retyping)

1. Try again, change some specifications on what copy I did ( like sales letters, emails and product descriptions), trim my profile explanation to the bare necessities and add more things.

2. Put up some other skills like video editing or transcription. They had less 'saturation' than copywriting.

I could go for 3, but I went for 2.
I could have made things more difficult for myself, but what the hell.

Copywriting is a vital Fastlane skill. If I want to learn, I better do some copy real-life. Last few months I was just scratching the surface and not getting paid for it, which wasn't a very accurate feedback mechanism loop.

I decided to go a bit further with things. I judged that:

1. 99% of people won't do the hard work to get in. In Upwork proposals, that might mean talking DEEPER about prior experiences, work and what you can deliver.

AND

2. 95% of people won't get out to do work that doesn't pay.
In the experiences column, I talked on my past experiences.

If I did charity work and dealt with people, I talked on that. I am not going into customer service, but on Upwork, I'll deal with people anyway.

If I sold anything (and copy is all about selling), I talked about it. I talked on the textbook selling thread here which I opened up.

I had more, but I just decided to put TWO and see how it went.

My profile write-up was not even a few paragraphs, but just some sentences with generous spacing to give them room to pause and think.

It was something like:

If you need XXX, great!

If you face XXX, no fear. Great!

I look forward to work with you and to share the pains of your problems, so that you bring great joy to your customers and more profits to your business.

I also did some simple tests on Upwork like English, email etiquette, marketing and transcription to back things up. They may not be needed later, when clients give the real feedback, but it's a start.

90% of freelancers won't do these tests, and just quit.

And this happened:

The first proposal, I waited eight hours for the rejection slip.

The second and updated proposal: ONE HOUR WAIT TIME.

I repeat:
ONE HOUR WAIT TIME

Now, off to settle the payment channel details and off to work crafting proposals to start helping out!

Once again, @SinisterLex, many thanks!

 

[Lex DeVille]

That kicks major a$$! Glad to see you were able to get on the platform. Almost every single person I've talked to who tried to get approved recently was rejected. Now that we know Upwork isn't rejecting EVERYONE, we can safely assume that those who get rejected are doing so because their profile isn't optimized for what Upwork wants. Great work breaking the mold and problem solving!

 

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[ZF Lee]

That kicks major a$$! Glad to see you were able to get on the platform. Almost every single person I've talked to who tried to get approved recently was rejected. Now that we know Upwork isn't rejecting EVERYONE, we can safely assume that those who get rejected are doing so because their profile isn't optimized for what Upwork wants. Great work breaking the mold and problem solving!

Thanks, @SinisterLex ! I really appreciate you cheering on!

It's not merely 'safely assume'. It's more like the STANDARD of things.

Like you have said many times, we need to put in MORE work.

In my case, it was MORE WORK in
a) Upwork tests (not too much, just enough for your specific skill)
b) Talking on experiences (providing value to others in ANY form)
c) cutting the profile explanation to the bare necessities ( down to what you can deliver)

On c) I hadn't even added ANY portfolios or even my posts on Quora or TFLF, or my past drafts on short stories as an author for validity.

On b) I had NO idea that charity work could be a boost!

Fastlaners can look at CHARITY for another avenue of providing sweet unpaid work!

I did some food delivery for the poor, uniform group participation and some plumbing for a camp (ahem).

Dirty, undesired work CAN count.

Cleaned cow dung? Hell yeah!

Arranged boxes and transported dusty beds? Hell yeah! ( I did this before too)

Upwork ACCEPTED these things.

I had:
NO past work experience like a 9-5

NO degree ( except for my pre-uni but the results aren't out yet)

NO track record ( not in copywriting, for me)

NO portfolio

NO intro video, although I will add one after the first sales roll in

Yet I got in around the second proposal!

Yup, I suppose market saturation for freelancer is a myth to be visited in a museum closest to you.

One side of me is kicking myself and asking, 'WTF did you not do this the second after you read Fastlane?'

 

[ZF Lee]

@SinisterLex, good news!
My first lead came along!

As of now, I haven't added any video or portfolio.

I still have no track record.

My profile still stands as it is.

I haven't sent ANY proposals to clients.

And YET I got an invite....

It's not in copywriting, but I KNOW I can deliver. The requirements fit nicely into my skillsets!

As long I can provide good value, the skills aren't a worry. And besides, I can leverage on this gig's record for the future!

I may, or may not take this gig, but well, it's a fresh start!

Upwork is NOT saturated. It's a F*cking MYTH.

Many thanks again for your help!

 

[xoxojbelle]

Hey guys--- Just wanted to say that this actually works.

I've been on upwork for 2 days as a web/ graphic designer ( I don't know if it's as competitive as copywriting, but let me tell you, it's freaking competitive) and I've got a response.
See for yourself! (wrote a really detailed proposal, just showing the closing statement and client response)


Goodbye 8am-5pm graphic design job.
Hello "Whenever I feel like it am/pm" -"Whenever I feel like it am/pm" graphic design freelancing.

Thanks @SinisterLex !!!

 

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[Boba]

Although I am not a copywriter but a software developer, currently focused on VBA this thread is a great source for inspiration. I've changed my overview description on Upwork and rearrange selected skills and now I'm waiting for that first invite while sending proposals.

Got just one question, almost all job posts in this area have minimum or no description. They are like "need a vba expert" or "need Excel work", and I need jobs to build up my rep. So, the question is how to tailor a unique or client-custom proposal if you have no information about the client or what he needs?

Thank you for all your posts and videos @SinisterLex!

 

[Lex DeVille]

Although I am not a copywriter but a software developer, currently focused on VBA this thread is a great source for inspiration. I've changed my overview description on Upwork and rearrange selected skills and now I'm waiting for that first invite while sending proposals.

Got just one question, almost all job posts in this area have minimum or no description. They are like "need a vba expert" or "need Excel work", and I need jobs to build up my rep. So, the question is how to tailor a unique or client-custom proposal if you have no information about the client or what he needs?

Thank you for all your posts and videos @SinisterLex!

Usually when there's very little info I just keep my proposal super short. For example:

"I need a copywriter for our company."

"Hi there, you need a copywriter for your company. I write copy for small businesses to Fortune 500's, so maybe I can help. Would you have time for a 10 minute call this week to see if we're a match?"