Killing Obesity!!! (A plan)

[G-Man]

I've never understood the economics of why salads cost so much at fast food joints, because I've seen the PO for produce. Bulk romaine is cheap. And you can buy bulk chicken to bake or grill for just as cheap as ground beef.

As @cmor16 said, some of it is probably just pricing at what the market will bear. A lot of it is probably spoils though. We get spoils billbacks and our product has a 15 month shelf life. I can't imagine what the spoils factor is on raw veggies.

@G-Man yes, you obviously do hate yourself. But why not build your own thing?

Something @amp0193 pointed out as well. I'd being lying if I said fear had nothing to do with it, as I've already got so much uncertainty in my life. Also, though, @Kak inspired me to think about time separation from day one. I could go make the product happen in a rented commercial kitchen right now,... I've got the money and the time to go to market, but I need to make the economics work separate from my time from the beginning. (Ops/distribution wise,... obviously product development and marketing will be yugely time-intensive).

I will find a way to make it work. It's nothing revolutionary, just a combination of improvements on existing products with a marketing slant that I've seen play extremely well in other food categories, so it can obviously be done.

I'm wondering if the solution isn't to just say screw it let's do it and quit my job to free up my time/creative capacity.

 

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[G-Man]

Healthy fast food would be a game changer for me. Not sure if there would be enough demand to sustain the biz, especially in the small towns dotted along the interstate. They would have to knock it out of the park with their menu/price/convenience.

Possible solution would be to do it c-store kiosk style instead of free-standing B&M restaurant. You'd have to get a chain with at least a couple hundred stores to buy the concept, but you could reach multi store distribution for the same investment as building a single restaurant, without the human resources nightmare.

Possible to make this healthy AND appealing?... and then not get kicked out and copycatted if it works?

 

[amp0193]

Possible solution would be to do it c-store kiosk style instead of free-standing B&M restaurant. You'd have to get a chain with at least a couple hundred stores to buy the concept, but you could reach multi store distribution for the same investment as building a single restaurant, without the human resources nightmare.

Possible to make this healthy AND appealing?... and then not get kicked out and copycatted if it works?

You know, the 7-11 in the Copenhagen airport actually had a couple of healthy eating kiosks like that. Like a salad bar type thing, but it had more than just salad.

Great idea.

-edit- Here's a pic from google images of that 7-11 stand. I can't see what food it was serving, and googling "pic a deli" came up with nothing. But anyways.

 

[amp0193]

Kak inspired me to think about time separation from day one.

That's what I did/do. I had a great idea for a business 2-3 months ago, but what killed it was the day-to-day involvement that would be needed on my part for 1-2 years. Just not gonna happen if I want to spend time with my kid.

I opted for a new business that I could start from scratch and keep it relatively hands off.

Freedom of time is more important to me than anything.

 

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[G-Man]

-edit- Here's a pic from google images of that 7-11 stand. I can't see what food it was serving, and googling "pic a deli" came up with nothing. But anyways.

That's pretty cool. I think the solution would have to be branded. You don't want people saying, "they have XYZ salad at the RaceTrac", you want them to say "They have an XYZ kiosk at the RaceTrac and they have salad". Looks like the Danes are on to something.

 

[amp0193]

That's pretty cool. I think the solution would have to be branded. You don't want people saying, "they have XYZ salad at the RaceTrac", you want them to say "They have an XYZ kiosk at the RaceTrac and they have salad". Looks like the Danes are on to something.

Exactly. Like how the local trampoline park has a dippin' dots vending machine.

Not "the trampoline park has little balls of ice cream".

 

[MidwestLandlord]

That's pretty cool. I think the solution would have to be branded. You don't want people saying, "they have XYZ salad at the RaceTrac", you want them to say "They have an XYZ kiosk at the RaceTrac and they have salad". Looks like the Danes are on to something.

Food service in the c-store arena is very, very, very, very, very hard to do well. There are multiple reasons for this.

1) Image. Gasoline and "quality food" don't exactly go together.
2) Discretionary spending. It's been proven many times over that the higher wage earners are the least likely to shop inside the store. Instead, they just swipe, pump, and go. The inside very much caters to lower income earners.
3) Service. C-stores consistently rank the lowest in customer service in various studies compared to grocery stores and restaurants. This even includes the top service providers such as Racetrac, Kum & Go, Casey's. They rank lower even if it's proven the service was actually better...so again, image.

Even companies like Couche-Tard & Kroger (Loaf n' Jug) have struggled with food service being profitable. Only a select few have done OK with it, and that's selling crap like Casey's selling and delivering pizza.

I have direct experience in this industry.

 

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[G-Man]

2) Discretionary spending. It's been proven many times over that the higher wage earners are the least likely to shop inside the store. Instead, they just swipe, pump, and go. The inside very much caters to lower income earners.

Why does this not surprise me? RaceTrac is nice, but the last time I actually went in (to get cape cod chips of course), I was literally behind a stripper (hooker too possibly?) in pink booty shorts and a wig arguing with some guy, and that's after making it past the guy trying to bum a smoke to even get inside and then getting in my car at the pump fast enough avoid the Mormons on bicycles. Now that I think about it, you're right: C-stores are a shit show.

EDIT: The other thing that occurred to me as a possibility would be a subscription food truck. There is a way to do this, dammit, it's just figuring out the best avenue.

 

[MidwestLandlord]

Now that I think about it, you're right: C-stores are a shit show.

And even if they aren't a shit show...most people assume they will be.

It's a very hard image to break. Impossible even.

So "I need to eat healthier!" doesn't translate to "let's go to Racetrac!" very well.

 

[G-Man]

So "I need to eat healthier!" doesn't translate to "let's go to Racetrac!" very well.

Which is why my fat a$$ was in there getting jalapeno cape cod chips and trying to figure out if that stripper was actually a dude.... she had very muscular arms, and clearly eats better than I do.

 

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[Scot]

And even if they aren't a shit show...most people assume they will be.

It's a very hard image to break. Impossible even.

So "I need to eat healthier!" doesn't translate to "let's go to Racetrac!" very well.

Which is why I think the real differentiator will be the person who tackles a healthy drive through option.

If you can run business the way Chic Fil A does but make it healthy, it's a win.

 

[G-Man]

If you can run business the way Chic Fil A does but make it healthy, it's a win.

So we've circled back to your idea of copying bodybuilders' way of making meals that are both healthy and hearty. Then hire someone that's famously ripped to be the spokesperson

"Hi my name's Steve Weatherford, and when I'm on the road and hungry I like to hit the drive thru at Scot's House of Kale. The free range turkey burger on a sweet potato bun satisfies my cravings and helps me stay in playoff season shape all year long!"

EDIT: I'm only being half sarcastic here. Someone will do it.

 

[MidwestLandlord]

So we've circled back to your idea of copying bodybuilders' way of making meals that are both healthy and hearty. Then hire someone that's famously ripped to be the spokesperson

"Hi my name's Steve Weatherford, and when I'm on the road and hungry I like to hit the drive thru at Scot's House of Kale. The free range turkey burger on a sweet potato bun satisfies my cravings and helps me stay in playoff season shape all year long!"

EDIT: I'm only being half sarcastic here. Someone will do it.

A fit, hot, big breasted famous spokesperson.

Not kidding.

Women are more likely to buy healthy food, and sex sells to both women and men.

 

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[G-Man]

A fit, hot, big breasted famous spokesperson.

As much as I'd like to start a business that gives me an excuse to hire Kate Upton, you really think the Carl's Jr route is the way to go? BTW, if you haven't seen that commercial.... yeah, I got in trouble for looking at shit a lot tamer than that on my parents computer when I was in middle school.

 

[MidwestLandlord]

As much as I'd like to start a business that gives me an excuse to hire Kate Upton, you really think the Carl's Jr route is the way to go? BTW, if you haven't seen that commercial.... yeah, I got in trouble for looking at shit a lot tamer than that on my parents computer when I was is middle school.

Haha, yeah I was an executive for a franchisee of CKE Restaurants when they started those ads with Paris Hilton.

I didn't mean anything like that, I just meant to cater to the female demographic.

 

[G-Man]

I didn't mean anything like that, I just meant to cater to the female demographic.

I bet Paige Spiranac could sling turkey burgers. Sexy but not sleazy. Appeals to men, aspirational for women. Now all we need is a menu

 

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[MidwestLandlord]

I bet Paige Spiranac could sling turkey burgers. Sexy but not sleazy. Appeals to men, aspirational for women. Now all we need is a menu

EXACTLY.

That's exactly what I meant.

Off-topic, but CKE (Hardee's, Carl's Jr,) also had Paris Hilton do training videos for the crew. And they weren't any tamer than the commercials.

"Here you go my new 15 year old female crew member! Watch this training video with your host, Paris Hilton!"

How on God's green earth they didn't get sued is beyond me.

 

[Scot]

I hate kale.

 

[MidwestLandlord]

I hate kale.

Random comment is random lol.

I love Kale.

But I'm the son of ex-hippies, a west coast boy, and a vegetarian for 26 of my 35 years, so...

 

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[Scot]

"Hi my name's Steve Weatherford, and when I'm on the road and hungry I like to hit the drive thru at Scot's House of Kale.

Not quite random haha

 

[AustinS28]

I think mental health needs to be addressed with obesity as well.

I read in one of the posts in here something about economics and while sure, some workaholics have terrible diets and make terrible food choices, but I'd venture to make the statement that people who make more are also healthier. They can afford better food, and they have better self esteem. Increased self esteem usually leads to increased physical and financial prosperity. You take care of yourself.

Obesity is rampant in poor communities.

 

[Kak]

As @cmor16 said, some of it is probably just pricing at what the market will bear. A lot of it is probably spoils though. We get spoils billbacks and our product has a 15 month shelf life. I can't imagine what the spoils factor is on raw veggies.



Something @amp0193 pointed out as well. I'd being lying if I said fear had nothing to do with it, as I've already got so much uncertainty in my life. Also, though, @Kak inspired me to think about time separation from day one. I could go make the product happen in a rented commercial kitchen right now,... I've got the money and the time to go to market, but I need to make the economics work separate from my time from the beginning. (Ops/distribution wise,... obviously product development and marketing will be yugely time-intensive).

I will find a way to make it work. It's nothing revolutionary, just a combination of improvements on existing products with a marketing slant that I've seen play extremely well in other food categories, so it can obviously be done.

I'm wondering if the solution isn't to just say screw it let's do it and quit my job to free up my time/creative capacity.

Cool man. While I definitely think scale and time separation from the genesis of a business... There is absolutely nothing wrong with you taking on any and all tasks in the beginning... All I make sure of is that there is a way out.

I know a guy who built a company, took a bunch of investor money, and worked basically 25 years for his own company without much choice in the matter. That is a job. He made good money, but he had to show up to work every day. He also wasn't able to grow his portfolio of holdings because his time was absorbed running his business. After the investors sold the company, he got sold with it. Once he sold his stock which was only about 10 percent, for a couple of million dollars he didn't know what to deploy it into to make it last. Last I heard things weren't going so hot.

Moral of the story... Working 25 years, needing to show up to work every day, and cashing out at the end with a few million sounds a lot like a good slowlane job to me, even if he was the entrepreneur.

Don't trap yourself.

 

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[G-Man]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with you taking on any and all tasks in the beginning...

I would have to do everything in the beginning no matter what. Problem I have is that I can't chart a path out of it until I have enough volume to work with co-packers that will run the line with the assortment of ingredients and type of packaging I need.... and that could take at least a couple years,... and I don't think my body and mind would survive that long, unless I left the company I'm currently at.

There's a possible work around that would require creating a 'human resource' system,... which is the aspect of business at which I'm least adept and dislike most.

 

[RSN]

I was just thinking yesterday about the simple trend of healthy food restaurants. But you know what's still missing? Healthy drive through. If someone could come up with the idea of good healthy drive through, it could be huge. Serve Korean lettuce wraps, protein shakes, baked sweet potato fries, turkey burgers on protein bread.

It looks like a great idea to me as well and it's definitely a need that's not being served right now. Now if you take the "healthy eaters" niche and take a closer look at it, to me, it looks more like a bunch of sub-niches that are sometimes more against each others views than otherwise being just a group of people that just want to eat "right" or "natural".

You have "eggs and bacon" crossfitters and you have vegans. Low carbs, right carbs ( no white or processed carbs) and no carbs. High fat and high protein. Many people are now moving away from grains at all while others will eat only certain grains like quinoa. And of course, the organic and/or GMO question that will always turn some people off but many won't care.

I think the people who are the most likely to be really excited about a healthy fast food drive thru are also people who are more likely to be very attached to a specific point of view of what "healthy" really means. People who are more vague on their definition of healthy would also be more vague as to whether to pass by the healthy drive thru or the burger king's drive thru.

So I think the person who decides to pursue this healthy drive thru model needs to decide first if he will cater for one of the sub niches or if not, how he would define "healthy" for the business?

Personally, I would cater first for the paleo/crossfitter niche. It's already a huge group that tend to be very passionate about their food choices. Not as big as "everyone who wants to eat heathy" group but certainly a more engaged one. Engagement is good for business.

 

[Andy Black]

Cool man. While I definitely think scale and time separation from the genesis of a business... There is absolutely nothing wrong with you taking on any and all tasks in the beginning... All I make sure of is that there is a way out.

I know a guy who built a company, took a bunch of investor money, and worked basically 25 years for his own company without much choice in the matter. That is a job. He made good money, but he had to show up to work every day. He also wasn't able to grow his portfolio of holdings because his time was absorbed running his business. After the investors sold the company, he got sold with it. Once he sold his stock which was only about 10 percent, for a couple of million dollars he didn't know what to deploy it into to make it last. Last I heard things weren't going so hot.

Moral of the story... Working 25 years, needing to show up to work every day, and cashing out at the end with a few million sounds a lot like a good slowlane job to me, even if he was the entrepreneur.

Don't trap yourself.

Ouch. Just goes to show that having CEO on your business card means jack.

Thanks for sharing that story @Kak. Frightening and sad in equal measure.

 

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[Kelly C]

I think a good start would be if sugar wasn't put in unnecessary things. When I went to Iowa for 9 months 10 or so years ago - I noticed a lot of choice but all of the options had sugar in - in things that really didn't need it like canned tomatoes for example.

My sister married a Texan and she is in Texas right now and has been telling me her struggles with food shopping. She said she got margarine without thinking and when she had some she said it tasted sweet - well it had sugar in. She then went on the hunt for one without sugar and couldn't find it (I told her to go get real butter though lol). Seriously why is there sugar in margarine? She said she is finding it really hard with the amount of sugar and salt in everything - it is a constant check of all ingredients even on things you wouldn't even think would have it in.

I know that the UK has its own obesity problem but at least I can buy a lot of things without thinking and know they won't have sugar in them!

 

[JAMES-L67]

Super interesting topic! I work slowlane as an Exercise Physiologist here in Aus, and obviously see my fair share of overweight/obesity clients. And while I definitely agree that there needs to be some "treatments" made available for obese people, particularly in the diet/cooking bracket, I personally believe it's far more important to focus on the "prevention" of obesity.

I would argue that one of the best places to start is simply with education, particularly for parents and their children. It's frightening the amount of parents I see currently that have NO IDEA when it comes to nutrition, and their beliefs are trickling down to their children. I have a mother who comes in and she told me one day (I swear to god she said this) that her son eats pretty healthily, "-he eats a lot of meat and veggies. You know, chicken nuggets, fish fingers, hash browns." She honestly did not know that those foods are drenched in fat and sugar, and their caloric content is through the roof. There is simply no hope for these people by pushing "healthy" food down their throat, as they don't see or understand the benefit.

Just my 2c, and to be honest I've just come home from driving 10+ hours today camping so I'm likely incoherent.

-James

 

[SvvyDO]

It looks like a great idea to me as well and it's definitely a need that's not being served right now. Now if you take the "healthy eaters" niche and take a closer look at it, to me, it looks more like a bunch of sub-niches that are sometimes more against each others views than otherwise being just a group of people that just want to eat "right" or "natural".

You have "eggs and bacon" crossfitters and you have vegans. Low carbs, right carbs ( no white or processed carbs) and no carbs. High fat and high protein. Many people are now moving away from grains at all while others will eat only certain grains like quinoa. And of course, the organic and/or GMO question that will always turn some people off but many won't care.

I think the people who are the most likely to be really excited about a healthy fast food drive thru are also people who are more likely to be very attached to a specific point of view of what "healthy" really means. People who are more vague on their definition of healthy would also be more vague as to whether to pass by the healthy drive thru or the burger king's drive thru.

So I think the person who decides to pursue this healthy drive thru model needs to decide first if he will cater for one of the sub niches or if not, how he would define "healthy" for the business?

Personally, I would cater first for the paleo/crossfitter niche. It's already a huge group that tend to be very passionate about their food choices. Not as big as "everyone who wants to eat heathy" group but certainly a more engaged one. Engagement is good for business.

People that diet are religious about their own method of "what works". In all honesty "healthy" is also very vague. I honestly wouldn't market to any niche's because they're so set up on their diets. I'd just go straight to the mass market. The ones that are vague about what healthy is. You'll have easier sales and less problems.

I know when I first started dieting 3 years ago I was blown away with how difficult it was to find quick, easy, and cheap "healthy" foods.

It's also been rising in the market recently with popular veggie kale smoothie things that have been springing up everywhere.

..I know I thought about it before but I never really looked too deep into it. I thought the overhead would be way too high to create something affordable *shrugs*. It's still appealing though because you never see any "healthy" fast-food joints anywhere.

Super interesting topic! I work slowlane as an Exercise Physiologist here in Aus, and obviously see my fair share of overweight/obesity clients. And while I definitely agree that there needs to be some "treatments" made available for obese people, particularly in the diet/cooking bracket, I personally believe it's far more important to focus on the "prevention" of obesity.

I would argue that one of the best places to start is simply with education, particularly for parents and their children. It's frightening the amount of parents I see currently that have NO IDEA when it comes to nutrition, and their beliefs are trickling down to their children. I have a mother who comes in and she told me one day (I swear to god she said this) that her son eats pretty healthily, "-he eats a lot of meat and veggies. You know, chicken nuggets, fish fingers, hash browns." She honestly did not know that those foods are drenched in fat and sugar, and their caloric content is through the roof. There is simply no hope for these people by pushing "healthy" food down their throat, as they don't see or understand the benefit.

Just my 2c, and to be honest I've just come home from driving 10+ hours today camping so I'm likely incoherent.

-James

I think the education is there.. it's everywhere if you really look for it. IMO I just don't think people want to restrict themselves (You're going to have to restrict yourself one way or another whatever diet you choose)..

And honestly.. you could still lose weight eating chicken nuggets and whatever else you want as long as your weekly calories are at a deficit. (I cut down to 155 from 195 in 3.5months eating what most people think is junk. BBQ hamburgers + korean bulgogi baby! Lol)

"healthy" doesn't really mean anything. (Uh oh, I said it)

 

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[JAMES-L67]

I think the education is there.. it's everywhere if you really look for it. IMO I just don't think people want to restrict themselves (You're going to have to restrict yourself one way or another whatever diet you choose)..

And honestly.. you could still lose weight eating chicken nuggets and whatever else you want as long as your weekly calories are at a deficit. (I cut down to 155 from 195 in 3.5months eating what most people think is junk. BBQ hamburgers + korean bulgogi baby! Lol)

"healthy" doesn't really mean anything. (Uh oh, I said it)

Don't worry, I agree with you on the "healthy" food comment, when it comes to body composition anyway. Gaining/losing weight comes down basically to calories in vs. calories out, as I'm sure most of us are aware.

I more meant to highlight the point that some parents do not even understand this. They think that to lose weight you have to start the Atkins diet, or not eat carbs, or only drink your meals or whatever b/s is being shoved down their throats at the time. What we need to do is capitalise early on children's and parent's minds and instil in them the knowledge of how to read nutrition labels, and what they actually MEAN. Ask someone what their basal metabolic rate is, and I can guarantee 99% won't be able to answer. How can you be in a caloric deficit if you don't know what your "maintenance calories" are?

But of course, this is only a VERY smell aspect of the entire problem, which is much more complex than that to conquer.

-James

 

[rollerskates]

This thread is really interesting to me because I have a lot of food restrictions -no gluten or lactose or a bunch of other things. I would love the healthy drive through option. If I go out running errands for any length of time, I really have to bring my own snacks or wait until I get home to eat. Eating out is a PITA. Eating in general is a PITA, actually. I had to meet with a nutritionist to help me lose weight around what I can eat and still get adequate nutrition, because when you can eat chocolate covered raisins, but not whole wheat, well..... And guess what? It still boils down to portion control, even with my restricted diet.

I have had to become an expert label reader and the crap in most stuff is horrendous. I pretty much can't eat any convenience foods except like rotisserie chicken. All the packaged stuff is crap crap crap. No wonder people are so unhealthy. The past year has been a revelation to me, dietwise. People can fix and control so many health problems with just making adjustments to their diets. I feel better and I haven't even lost all the weight I need to lose yet.

I did recently see some frozen dinners that were paleo and I didn't look at the ingredients, but this seems like a winner of an idea--convenience that caters to grain free and other restricted diets.

The C-store story made me laugh because my roommate and I have a running joke about the people who go in them--everyone is there for cigs, beer, and lottery tickets.