Bitcoin / Cryptocurrency Discussion (And Predictions)

[csalvato]

The instructions alone with all the links are crazily complex, let alone doing it. As it is now, I don't think that crypto is for those who aren't technically-inclined.

From one of the instructions from this site:





It's so ridiculously written that I can only laugh. And that's just ONE step of the crazily complicated process. There's no "just read this and follow its steps" if you have no idea what they're talking about.

Hardcore crypto believers all seem to think that it's simple. But that's because of how many hours they spent learning it. It's not simple at all for a regular person who doesn't want to spend their life trying to understand it and worrying that they took a wrong step. It's like a rocket scientist saying: "just follow these steps and you'll go straight to the moon."

Just to be clear, it's just my opinion as someone on the sidelines. I briefly considered investing in crypto, spending some time trying to learn it. I concluded I'd rather stick to stuff that's been around for hundreds of years. But I'm a conservative investor who prefers cashflowing investments.

I don't care if someone invests their entire life savings into it or not. Just pointing out a huge weakness most crypto investors overlook because of the huge curse of knowledge bias.

I can't help but chuckle to myself here.

So, you're on an entrepreneur forum where we literally chastize anyone who asks for a step-by-step so they can avoid using their brain – yet you're provided a step by step into a totally different financial system, and you scoff at it that it's "too hard"?

IDK, I guess I just expected more of you, especially since I know 65+ year old grandmas who are getting their feet wet buying crypto in small (and large) amounts and learning as they go.

But you want to know exactly how everything works up front, refuse to do the research and practical steps to learn, then laugh when a total paradigm shift is too hard for you. OK.

If you, or anyone, wants a dead simple step by step on how to get started, it's pretty F*cking simple:

1. Buy a $59 Ledger Nano S.
2. Buy $200 of BTC on Coinbase.
3. Follow the 5 step instructions in the box of the Ledger Nano S that will tell you how to transfer from your Coinbase wallet to the ledger.

Then learn the rest as you go. Or is that too hard for you, too?

The argument that this is "too hard" goes right out the window when I know people who are retired and putting non-trivial sums of their 401k nest egg into Bitcoin by doing those three steps above.

I mean, I don't really care if you or anyone else does any of this. Just don't kick yourself saying "oh man, @Timmy C and @csalvato told me 10 years ago how to get involved and I just laughed at them"

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[MTF]

I mean, I don't really care if you or anyone else does any of this. Just don't kick yourself saying "oh man, @Timmy C and @csalvato told me 10 years ago how to get involved and I just laughed at them

It's all good. I'm cool investing in boring stuff with low, predictable returns.

I'm pretty sure you're way smarter than me in this domain so it's easy for you. I have no idea how to code, either, and trying to learn it was a nightmare to me as well because it's just not my strength.

I don't mind learning stuff but I'd rather learn things that I'm capable of understanding well. This is why I'd rather invest in, say, an orchard, than crypto. Just playing to my strengths—as you are to yours.

 

[Fox]

Guys just curious where you see bitcoin in 5-10 years?

- As a stable currency that doesn't go up and down as much as now?
- As more of a way to store wealth but with too much daily fluctuation to be used for everyday purchases?

I get it is in the boom stages (obviously) but are you guys with the experience expecting an eventual levelling out?

To me it just seems difficult to see which way it goes in the long run...
- To be an everyday currency it needs to be stable (no one wants to spend something that is worth 10% more a week later)
- To be stable it needs to be way less "hype" than it is now (from the perspective of the average new user)
- Nearly everyone I know in bitcoin is in it for the profit, not to use as actual currency (back to point #1)

I would love to know your thoughts on what exactly it is when the dust all settles.

(Not trolling at all, just don't see the eventual balance between investment/stable currency in the long term).

 

[c4n]

I know 65 year olds buying BTC on coinbase and moving it to hardware wallets.

This isn’t as far off as you think. In many ways we are there now.

literally, grandmas are less scared of crypto than entrepreneurs on this forum now.

Let's be honest, grandmas buying crypto and putting them on a Ledger is the exception

I bought my first BTC when it was in the $300 range so I guess was part of the early adopters (sold most of those at the time of the first ~$1000 peak). The first time I actually started to understand the very basics of BTC was at your presentation at the summit.

Fast forward a few years - I still think it's a complex topic (and I own a software business so not the dumbest when it comes to tech/computers) and currently way out of the reach of the average person. Sure, someone will probably come up with a solution to dumb down the user experience, but IMHO we're still years from that.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[csalvato]

Check out this pamphlet put out by an investment firm:

Smallpdf.com

smallpdf.com

Great info within.

 

[James Fake]

I have a seed plate bitcoin metal backup and have indented my seeds into the metal except for 2 words that I have memorized in my head.

THIS... IS.. BRILLIANT. Imagine if folks were as clever as this back in the early days! Those souls who lost, threw away, or can't access their hundreds of sub-$1 Bitcoins!

 

[Timmy C]

Guys just curious where you see bitcoin in 5-10 years?

- As a stable currency that doesn't go up and down as much as now?
- As more of a way to store wealth but with too much daily fluctuation to be used for everyday purchases?

I get it is in the boom stages (obviously) but are you guys with the experience expecting an eventual levelling out?

To me it just seems difficult to see which way it goes in the long run...
- To be an everyday currency it needs to be stable (no one wants to spend something that is worth 10% more a week later)
- To be stable it needs to be way less "hype" than it is now (from the perspective of the average new user)
- Nearly everyone I know in bitcoin is in it for the profit, not to use as actual currency (back to point #1)

I would love to know your thoughts on what exactly it is when the dust all settles.

(Not trolling at all, just don't see the eventual balance between investment/stable currency in the long term).

The reason Bitcoin is so volatile is that the market is so small. It's nowhere near the golds market cap at this point, I believe over time volatility will weaken as will the strength of the opportunity as more liquidity enters the asset class and moves are much smaller.

Bitcoin is a dis-intermediation technology for most of the middlemen we use in finance. If this goes the way I believe it will, it will cause the biggest generational wealth transfer of our lifetimes as government-issued currencies are given the boot over superior free-market money.

If your a libertarian, Bitcoin is as libertarian as it gets.

The need for a central authority is not needed as you and the receiver will know that the transaction has taken place. The bank is removed from this equation.

One of the biggest issues with bitcoin is its ability to scale, you might send a transaction and if the network is busy it can take 1 full day to get to the other wallet. There is tech being developed such as the lightning network that allows transactions to take place off-chain at faster speeds. It's coming along nicely.

The ratio between the stock and flow is a reliable indicator of a good’s hardness as money, if you look at the stock to flow model bitcoin is following this to a T. For anything to function as a good store of value it has to appreciate when people demand it as a store of value, but its producers have to be constrained from inflating the supply significantly enough to bring down the price.

Bitcoin does this.

I see many possibilities and will probably be wrong on a lot of them.

1. Bitcoin is used as a global reserve currency.
2. Bitcoin replaces gold and chosen as a better store of value to protect against inflationary pressure.
3. Bitcoin is used for larger purchases like houses, cars, etc as it's too slow to be used for daily payments.
4. Litecoin is used for daily transactions due to its superior technology and the lightning network doesn't work as well as hoped to make bitcoin a currency.
5. Bitcoin replaces gold and Litecoin replaces FIAT.
6. You can use bitcoin as collateral for FIAT loans.

Many of the issues with volatility will go away over time. As volatility weakens the Asymmetric payoff of buying bitcoin weakens, which means your returns will be a fraction of what they are now.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Timmy C]

THIS... IS.. BRILLIANT. Imagine if folks were as clever as this back in the early days! Those souls who lost, threw away, or can't access their hundreds of sub-$1 Bitcoins!

haha thanks man!

 

[gryfny]

I have a seed plate bitcoin metal backup and have indented my seeds into the metal except for 2 words that I have memorized in my head.

But you have to order the metal plate somewhere right. So the company where you ordered it knows part of your seed.

I like the idea a lot really, but this fact is putting me off a bit. I'd rather print and laminate it at home.

 

[Timmy C]

But you have to order the metal plate somewhere right. So the company where you ordered it knows part of your seed.

I like the idea a lot really, but this fact is putting me off a bit. I'd rather print and laminate it at home.

No mate. The plate doesn't come with your seed, it's just a plain metal plate, and you engrave the seed into it yourself.

No one knows what that is except you.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Deleted70138]

The reason Bitcoin is so volatile is that the market is so small. It's nowhere near the golds market cap at this point, I believe over time volatility will weaken as will the strength of the opportunity as more liquidity enters the asset class and moves are much smaller.

Does any business price their products in bitcoins? This volatility could be discouraging, but on the other hand, if businesses start to price their products in crypto, it might become much more stable than any fiat currency.

 

[c4n]

Does any business price their products in bitcoins? This volatility could be discouraging, but on the other hand, if businesses start to price their products in crypto, it might become much more stable than any fiat currency.

Can you issue invoices in BTC? Pay taxes in BTC?

As long as we are forced to do the above in fiat then listing prices in BTC doesn't make sense.

 

[Timmy C]

Does any business price their products in bitcoins? This volatility could be discouraging, but on the other hand, if businesses start to price their products in crypto, it might become much more stable than any fiat currency.

Yes they do, but it isn't widely adopted yet by the majority of them.

We are early in the adoption curve.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Timmy C]

Can you issue invoices in BTC? Pay taxes in BTC?

As long as we are forced to do the above in fiat then listing prices in BTC doesn't make sense.

It makes perfect sense for businesses that want to get fiat off their balance sheets.

 

[c4n]

It makes perfect sense for businesses that want to get fiat off their balance sheets.

Apples and oranges. I was responding to setting prices in BTC. The only reasonable way to do it currently is to set the price in fiat, then convert it to BTC (+ margin) because in the end all the invoices issued and taxes paid must be in fiat.

 

[Deleted70138]

Can you issue invoices in BTC? Pay taxes in BTC?

No, I'd rather not pay taxes, that's the whole point. Many westerners have this stockholm syndrom of enjoying being taxed.

Yes they do

Can you provide some example? I searched and could not find a single business being priced in crypto.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Timmy C]

No, I'd rather not pay taxes, that's the whole point. Many westerners have this stockholm syndrom of enjoying being taxed.

Can you provide some example? I searched and could not find a single business being priced in crypto.

Well, accepting it is happening, but it has been for years.

Where You Can Spend Your Bitcoin Australia | Spend Cryptocurrency Australia

Note: For new listings we do charge a one off listing fee of $50 - please follow this form to add your business -

bitcoinaustralia.net

It would be hard to price things purely in BTC as it's volatile.

It wouldn't make much sense right now, and most people are not going to sell an asset that has historically risen in value and increased their purchasing power for the future.

 

[Timmy C]

No, I'd rather not pay taxes, that's the whole point. Many westerners have this stockholm syndrom of enjoying being taxed.

Can you provide some example? I searched and could not find a single business being priced in crypto.

There are Reddit communities in the crypto space that set up stores and sell merchandise in their favorite cryptocurrency.

 

[Deleted70138]

Where You Can Spend Your Bitcoin Australia | Spend Cryptocurrency Australia

Note: For new listings we do charge a one off listing fee of $50 - please follow this form to add your business -

bitcoinaustralia.net

Same, nobody sells in crypto.

It would be hard to price things purely in BTC as it's volatile.

It wouldn't make much sense right now, and most people are not going to sell an asset that has historically risen in value and increased their purchasing power for the future.

This is an oxymoron - Nobody wants to accept bitcoin due to volatility and nobody wants to give up due to possible increase in value.

Is there really increased purchasing power or is it just increased exchange rate? it seems it's literally impossible to by anything directly with bitcoin.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Timmy C]

Same, nobody sells in crypto.

This is an oxymoron - Nobody wants to accept bitcoin due to volatility and nobody wants to give up due to possible increase in value.

Is there really increased purchasing power or is it just increased exchange rate? it seems it's literally impossible to by anything directly with bitcoin.

Well, you tell me.

Could you buy more with bitcoin holding it over time, or would saving fiat allow you to purchase more?

All fiat currencies are inflationary as the supply is always increased. Bitcoins supply is fixed.

 

[Timmy C]

Same, nobody sells in crypto.

This is an oxymoron - Nobody wants to accept bitcoin due to volatility and nobody wants to give up due to possible increase in value.

Is there really increased purchasing power or is it just increased exchange rate? it seems it's literally impossible to by anything directly with bitcoin.

What can you buy with gold?

Go into a shop tomorrow and try buying something with gold at the grocery store.

 

[Deleted70138]

All fiat currencies are inflationary as the supply is always increased. Bitcoins supply is fixed.

That's why I'm very attracted to blockchain technology, but still don't understand why nobody prices their product in crypto.

How many bitcoins would you give up now for 10 bitcoins in 10 years?

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Deleted70138]

What can you buy with gold?

Go into a shop tomorrow and try buying something with gold at the grocery store.

That's a good point. That's why I don't own gold.

 

[Timmy C]

How many bitcoins would you give up now for 10 bitcoins in 10 years?

All of them.

 

[Timmy C]

That's why I'm very attracted to blockchain technology, but still don't understand why nobody prices their product in crypto.

That's why I'm very attracted to blockchain technology, but still don't understand why nobody prices their product in crypto.

How many bitcoins would you give up now for 10 bitcoins in 10 years?

Without cryptography, block chain by itself can't be used for a currency.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Deleted70138]

Without cryptography, block chain by itself can't be used for a currency.

But don't you agree that it's super odd that currency with 500 billion market cap has no product listed in it's own terms?

All of them.

I did not ask how much you have, but rather what's the difference in value between 1 bitcoin now vs 1 bitcoin in 10 years.

 

[Sethamus]

But don't you agree that it's super odd that currency with 500 billion market cap has no product listed in it's own terms?

I did not ask how much you have, but rather what's the difference in value between 1 bitcoin now vs 1 bitcoin in 10 years.

Sounds as though he is curious if $31k is a good buy in point and I'm curious what y'all think well. Tried to talk to my dad at $16k, but he was still hesitant. Can you split it, buy partials, can you go spend it, where does it go and actually held? Yes,yes, somewhat, and where does your savings account $ actually go, it is accounting and books not actually in the bank.
Didn't try super hard to convince him, but I'm sure he is thinking about it. Told him he needs to just buy one or 2 since. 1 BTC is less than 20% of what he pulls out yearly for retirement so completely worth the risk to him.

 

[Frinys]

But don't you agree that it's super odd that currency with 500 billion market cap has no product listed in it's own terms?

For an asset where the only feature is that it is a payment solution, the answer is yes. It is super odd that a 500 billion market cap asset has no products listed in its own terms.

But you seem to assume that Bitcoin's only feature is that it is a payment solution. It's not. It's not the reason why it's valuable. It's not even its primary feature.

Bitcoin's primary feature is that it is completely distributed, yet the most secure asset in the world. The bitcoin asset is currently secured by 140 Quintillion hashes per second. That is the equivalent of 1 428 000 000 000 RTX 3080 Graphic cards mining at all times.

To attack bitcoin, you would need to be in control of a minimum of 51% of these hashes. You would need 70 Quintillion hashes to perform a successful attack on the bitcoin network.

And still, no one owns the bitcoin network. There is no government providing this security. No company, no organization. It's completely secure, yet owned by nobody and no one.

You won't find that kind of security anywhere else. And that is why bitcoin is so valuable.

That security is worth way more than 500 billion. People just don't know it yet.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Deleted70138]

Sounds as though he is curious if $31k is a good buy

No. USD/BTC exchange does not matter. What i'm interested is what others think is the discount rate of BTC over time.
Is the bird in the hand worth two in the bush? if yes, how many birds in the bush is it worth of?

 

[Timmy C]

No. USD/BTC exchange does not matter. What i'm interested is what others think is the discount rate of BTC over time.
Is the bird in the hand worth two in the bush? if yes, how many birds in the bush is it worth of?

I didn't tell you how much I had just that I would trade all of my BTC now to collect 10 BTC 10 years later.

I have got nowhere near 10 BTC.