Hip-hop ghostwriting service progress

[Guest24480]

I've finally decided to take the plunge. Looking around online, I couldn't find many established hip-hop ghostwriting sites around and I've always seen a demand for it with all the wannabe rappers popping up nowadays. I also live in the Bronx (for half of the year) so I have the perfect demographic for local promotion.

I started this project awhile back but didn't have the time to pursue it then so I let it sit for awhile. Now that it's summer I have a lot more free time and I'm willing to put in the work.

So far, I've set up a Facebook fan page (https://www.facebook.com/pages/Autorhyme-Ghostwriting/1424429094456650), Twitter page (https://twitter.com/ARghostwriting), Google+ page, and have put an interim logo in place while I find someone to design a better one for me.

I guess the next step is to set up a website and get to promoting the service. I also need to figure out how I'm going to set up pricing, payment, and whether or not I'm going to start out by hiring writers or just writing the lyrics myself (I'm good at it). Most likely the latter for now.

One thing I feel like I may have trouble with is securing the first few customers. I think I may want to do some sort of promotion where I give the first few customers a significant discount and in return they provide me with a testimonial. Otherwise no one will be willing to give up their money for a service they don't trust. I also have to write sample verses to put up for this reason.

Let me know what you guys think as I want to get someone else's take on this whole idea/concept, how it looks so far, and what you think my next steps should be. Wish me luck!

 

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[Lauryn]

This is an interesting concept.

If you're a great ghostwriter, then yeah, do it yourself.

There are plenty of connections to be made in NY. Hit industry events, possibly reach out to people going to LaGuardia, IAR ... even Full Sail. I went to Full Sail and there's always music connections to be made because artists and engineers are always looking for people to help them build and promote.

Website wise - definitely. If you know WordPress, you can get a site set up for less than $300 on your own in a matter of hours.

I know there are ghostwriters killin' it, but I never thought of it as a business idea or fastlane concept.

 

[Guest24480]

Well I also have some ideas for expansion and scaling the business too, otherwise I wouldn't be doing it.

As for Wordpress, I do have some experience blogging so I know it decently well. Where would the $300 you referred to go to out of curiosity? A theme and what else?


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[Thriftypreneur]

Well I also have some ideas for expansion and scaling the business too, otherwise I wouldn't be doing it.

As for Wordpress, I do have some experience blogging so I know it decently well. Where would the $300 you referred to go to out of curiosity? A theme and what else?


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If you're familiar with basic html/css and are comfortable designing your own stuff in Gimp, you can start nice looking wordpress site for dirt cheap. The last wordpress content brand I created, I did all the work myself (my skills are marginal at best), and launched for a little less than $12 total.

Outsourcing it, your largest expenses will come in the form of graphic design and any custom programming you'll need on your theme that you're not able to do yourself.

 

[Guest24480]

If you're familiar with basic html/css and are comfortable designing your own stuff in Gimp, you can start nice looking wordpress site for dirt cheap. The last wordpress content brand I created, I did all the work myself (my skills are marginal at best), and launched for a little less than $12 total.

Outsourcing it, your largest expenses will come in the form of graphic design and any custom programming you'll need on your theme that you're not able to do yourself.

That's very true. I used to mess around with gimp a lot so I know it pretty well. I think I may just outsource the logo though. It will be worth it in the long run because it represents the brand and it's the first thing my customers will see.

As for coding I've taken a basic web design class so I know some HTML/CSS so fixing problems such as that shouldn't be a problem. Worst case scenario there's always the good old internet to help me out if I'm stuck.


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[jilla82]

who would be your target market?
I couldnt see an established person choosing this route when they could pay someone that has a long track record in the industry.

So I would imagine youre going after smaller acts?

 

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[leveragehacker]

Do wannabe rappers have the money to pay up?
Alternatively could you take a cut in return for coming up with the material?

 

[LOYD]

Interesting idea. You can definitely make money as a ghostwriter. Turning it into a full business is a different challenge. Rappers aren't like singers in the sense of freely admitting that someone else wrote their songs. There's always that expectation that a rapper can write their own rhymes.

That said, ghostwriting is still a needed service in the business despite the stigma from certain people. Most up and comers spend hours online searching for producers they can buy beats from, so they'll most likely run across your services as well if you get an online presence. Best of luck.

 

[Guest24480]

who would be your target market?
I couldnt see an established person choosing this route when they could pay someone that has a long track record in the industry.

So I would imagine youre going after smaller acts?

It would definitely be up and coming artists to start out, as there are more and more of them these days. My ultimate goal is to get attention from established artists.

Do wannabe rappers have the money to pay up?
Alternatively could you take a cut in return for coming up with the material?

Those are both questions I have asked myself. Some may have the money, some may not. But even if they don't, some people are willing to pay for anything to fulfill their dream. They're already paying for beats/production, so what's a little more for really good lyrics? I was thinking of making my service the most affordable on the net and using that as a marketing strategy in order to attract a higher volume of people who may not be able to afford expensive services.

As for taking a cut, I've thought about that too. I realized that if I'm charging a fixed price and the song becomes a hit, I may lose out on a lot of money. The solution: charging a royalty fee. Whether or not I want to do that is just something I'll have to decide. Anyone's insight on how large this fee should be and/or whether or not I should charge it would be helpful.

Interesting idea. You can definitely make money as a ghostwriter. Turning it into a full business is a different challenge. Rappers aren't like singers in the sense of freely admitting that someone else wrote their songs. There's always that expectation that a rapper can write their own rhymes.

That said, ghostwriting is still a needed service in the business despite the stigma from certain people. Most up and comers spend hours online searching for producers they can buy beats from, so they'll most likely run across your services as well if you get an online presence. Best of luck.

Rappers won't want to admit that someone else wrote their stuff, which is why my service will be 100% anonymous. People will THINK that they wrote the stuff, but it's really my service doing the work.

As for a solid online presence, that's what I'm going to try to do. As I expand, sites that sell beats would be the perfect place to advertise my services.

 

[LOYD]

You'll have to do some trial and error to determine what's a good price to charge. It'll all depend on your clientele and your own service quality. You could do all front end and get paid up front one time. You could go strictly for back end royalties if you think the song is definitely going to be big. Or you could find something in the middle, small front end and smaller royalty. I personally would shoot for a way to get royalties in most of the deals.

I saw a couple of sites that do what you're looking to do. You could look at what they're doing and see if there's a way to bring more value to the industry. Might also give you an idea of what to charge for your services.

http://www.rap-rebirth.com/
http://www.precisionwrittens.com/

 

[Guest24480]

You'll have to do some trial and error to determine what's a good price to charge. It'll all depend on your clientele and your own service quality. You could do all front end and get paid up front one time. You could go strictly for back end royalties if you think the song is definitely going to be big. Or you could find something in the middle, small front end and smaller royalty. I personally would shoot for a way to get royalties in most of the deals.

I saw a couple of sites that do what you're looking to do. You could look at what they're doing and see if there's a way to bring more value to the industry. Might also give you an idea of what to charge for your services.

http://www.rap-rebirth.com/
http://www.precisionwrittens.com/

Yeah I guess it all depends on what I want to do or what works best. Thanks for finding those sites, I've visited them before. At the moment I'm making a spreadsheet comparing all of the prices of existing sites to find the best fit. There are a few others out there as well.

 

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[Formless]

mmmm.

I tried selling beats to broke aspiring rappers. A lot of them don't even embrace the concept that intellectual property is something you pay for.

Don't let that discourage you though, give it a shot.

 

[Lathan]

Do wannabe rappers have the money to pay up?

Funny you ask that.

I used to be heavy in to music production selling beats. One thing I found was that when you are dealing with young up and comers (starving artists), they want everything for free. Unless you had branded yourself as a producer already back in the day when sites like soundclick.com were first introduced, you would have a hard time selling beats. The best way was just to network and build relationships with artists who are actually doing something to move forward and try to get them to be a loyal customer of yours.

@holmzee , I'm just giving you my personal experience as well as many of other people i knew who were doing the same thing as me. Although these rappers rap about "getting money"... when it comes down to it, they won't even pay $25 for a beat lease. Much less hundreds of dollars for exclusive rights on the beat. I think you will find this an issue with your whole concept with ghostwriting, too.

Not to mention the fact that a lot of rappers take pride in being a "true lyricist" and I don't see many of them being willing to pay for a ghostwriter. To the best of my knowledge, ghostwriting doesn't really come in to play until you've actually "made it"... then that is when you get the true hit makers to put their touch on your song. Many of the big artists don't write their own lyrics.

Just my opinion. If you decide to go through with it though, I hope you prove me wrong. Good luck

 

[Guest24480]

Funny you ask that.

I used to be heavy in to music production selling beats. One thing I found was that when you are dealing with young up and comers (starving artists), they want everything for free. Unless you had branded yourself as a producer already back in the day when sites like soundclick.com were first introduced, you would have a hard time selling beats. The best way was just to network and build relationships with artists who are actually doing something to move forward and try to get them to be a loyal customer of yours.

@holmzee , I'm just giving you my personal experience as well as many of other people i knew who were doing the same thing as me. Although these rappers rap about "getting money"... when it comes down to it, they won't even pay $25 for a beat lease. Much less hundreds of dollars for exclusive rights on the beat. I think you will find this an issue with your whole concept with ghostwriting, too.

Not to mention the fact that a lot of rappers take pride in being a "true lyricist" and I don't see many of them being willing to pay for a ghostwriter. To the best of my knowledge, ghostwriting doesn't really come in to play until you've actually "made it"... then that is when you get the true hit makers to put their touch on your song. Many of the big artists don't write their own lyrics.

Just my opinion. If you decide to go through with it though, I hope you prove me wrong. Good luck

I've thought about your post and have put out some surveys and the conclusion is that most people don't want to sacrifice artistic creativity no matter the quality of the lyrics. My only hope is that the people who actually support using ghostwritten lyrics just aren't speaking up in order to keep themselves anonymous. I really don't know if I should pursue this or not I'm really starting to doubt it because of your post and my research.

Edit: I really do want to stick with it because I need to find something to stick with but I just don't want to waste my time pursuing something that isn't profitable or reasonable.

 

[Formless]

Here's a potential sidetrack...

Ghostwriting lyrics, for aspiring singers. This idea deviation just popped into my head, so I haven't really sat down with pen & paper to see how viable it may be, but if ya think about it...

It's usually lower-middle, middle class guys or gals with acoustic guitars, with a music background (singing, not writing) and don't have confidence in their own writing.

Perhaps you wanna run with this angle? (You can do both rap & other stuff.)

 

[Guest24480]

Here's a potential sidetrack...

Ghostwriting lyrics, for aspiring singers. This idea deviation just popped into my head, so I haven't really sat down with pen & paper to see how viable it may be, but if ya think about it...

It's usually lower-middle, middle class guys or gals with acoustic guitars, with a music background (singing, not writing) and don't have confidence in their own writing.

Perhaps you wanna run with this angle? (You can do both rap & other stuff.)

Hmm. You know what this reminded me of? Rapgenius.com

They started off by just providing annotations to rap lyrics but have since expanded into rock and other subgenres. There's just one problem. I'm not sure if I have the skills to write songs that aren't hip-hop. I do play guitar but I'm not super advanced at it so how would I write songs for people who are experts at playing? Just the lyrics with no melody? Are people really that deficient at coming up with lyrics that they can write entire songs but can't think of lyrics to go along with it? I hope so because that could be lucrative on my end.

I guess I would just have to hire people to do the songwriting because I really don't think I could do it (well) unless it's hip-hop. What do others think of this idea?

 

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[Formless]

I'll speak to one of my hipster acoustic guitar granola friends and get back to you when she gets back to me

EDIT: I spoke to her, conversation below.

Me: you know when you write a song
for just self and acoustic guitar?

Friend: Yes...

Me: Do you have any sort of order like
chords first, tune first, words first?
or is it 'all in one'
like, would you ever think of a tune first, and then try to make lyrics that fit later?

Friend: I've done that before
Most of the time I write lyrics then tune

Me: ah
lyrics difficult or easy?
in general

Friend: Easy


Friend: You writing??

Me: nah
this guy wants to be a ghostwriter
so I'm just asking people who actually write
to see whether its necessary
i won't be writing no lyrics doe
my rapper stage finished when I was 15

Friend: Nah lyrics are easyyyy

Me: you got any buddies who write and would say the same?

Friend: Yes

Friend: Words come into my head more than a melody



--For whatever it's worth.

 

[Lathan]

I really don't know if I should pursue this or not

I just don't see it working man. Every artist I've ever worked with/talked to has always preferred writing their own lyrics. In many cases, using a ghost writer is even looked down upon.

Edit: I see no problem with digging a little deeper. There is only one way to know for 100%. Test it out.

 

[leveragehacker]

I figured it out - here's an idea. If you're GOOD at writing lyrics then the easiest way to leverage that talent is to GIVE your BEST lyrics to the best placed up and coming artist or even established artist who would want to use your stuff. THEN, assuming your stuff is GREAT and the artist is also GREAT at performing etc etc you would gain the credibility to go straight away to the big leagues of lyric writing.

Just a random idea - what do you think? Even if you wrote 1 song each for 10 different big or up&coming artists and 1 broke through the ceiling - then you'd have gotten to a situation where you can charge premium and contract premium clients with credibility & testimonials under your belt

 

[leveragehacker]

Tl;dr Give your best stuff away for free

 

[Guest24480]

I figured it out - here's an idea. If you're GOOD at writing lyrics then the easiest way to leverage that talent is to GIVE your BEST lyrics to the best placed up and coming artist or even established artist who would want to use your stuff. THEN, assuming your stuff is GREAT and the artist is also GREAT at performing etc etc you would gain the credibility to go straight away to the big leagues of lyric writing.

Just a random idea - what do you think? Even if you wrote 1 song each for 10 different big or up&coming artists and 1 broke through the ceiling - then you'd have gotten to a situation where you can charge premium and contract premium clients with credibility & testimonials under your belt

You've got me thinking here. The good part is there are always ways to get ahold of people nowadays because booking information is posted right on twitter. I may try something like this and keep you guys updated.

Should I do this after I've established a website and a brand or should I use my own name and go from there?


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[leveragehacker]

You've got me thinking here. The good part is there are always ways to get ahold of people nowadays because booking information is posted right on twitter. I may try something like this and keep you guys updated.

Should I do this after I've established a website and a brand or should I use my own name and go from there?


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You don't need a website or brand for this. You just a need phone number and email address Hope this works for you man - keep us updated!

 

[Stu_Hefner]

No, no website. Ghostwriters will only make good money if they are writing a hit song. If you need to look at a path for inspiration. Look at Rico Love. He has written a lot of hit songs. The smart thing about him is he does it for RNB singers mostly. Big hit song gets licensed = he earns royalties from it forever.

 

[Boo Blizzi]

Yeah dude, as most people already said... this is gonna be a hard nut to crack. You gotta look at it like this... with the way rap is these days, lyrics are the least important. The hook and the beat are what makes a song a hit.

What you could do is team up with a producer, stylist, and photographer to transform total nobodies into artist with "the look" and "the sound". Sell it as an artist development package. And make sure you showcase the before and afters on Youtube, Facebook, Daily Motion, etc like them dudes did with that chick Rebecca Black.

That will get you some middle/upper class people who want to be artist but have more money than talent. Also, you will probably wanna stick to that fluffy pop stuff. It sells better and can reach a broader range audience.

Hope that helps.