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[ChrisV]

Sorry, I don't mean to rip on things that people like, but I'm trying to show there's a more useful alternative.

@ChrisV I would say this is not an accurate understanding of MBTI. MBTI is never all or nothing, and whenever I want to know MBTI I want to know their specific breakdown. The way an INTJ that's 100% T compared to one that's 60% T behaves and thinks for example is different.

MBTI also acknowledges that people's type can change depending on what they're doing and who they're with.

At the base it is determined by one's preference to use a cognitive process pair, but the pair one chooses is not fixed. To add to that the more developed someone is, the more they will change what process pair they are using, but still they will have a preferred pair.

The Big Five in comparison is personality traits, which is less fluid and harder to understand a dichotomy of.

Perhaps my favorite thing about MBTI typing people is when they change from one type to another. I met up with an old friend I hadn't seen for a decade the other day, he acted ENFP most of the night, except when he started talking about knowledge regarding his field, at which point he switched to acting like an ENTJ! After we were no longer talking about his field however, he went right back to being ENFP.

I'm typically an ENTJ, although I do tap into ENTP for when I have more creative needs or am being more social and chill.

I think you would gain a lot from understanding the cognitive processes that underly MTBI: Understanding the 8 Jungian Cognitive Processes (8 Functions)

Edit: Well...lol. That's a first. 54|46 F|T split? Suppose that's not insane to believe...TFM and US have made me focus on people quite a lot.
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I'll check out the link and yes, the more modern ones give scales. But I don't think a lot of the measures (especially T-F, J-P) are very useful. Science doesn't use the MBTI anymore because it's really messy.

The MBTI kinda sorts correlates with some measures of the Big 5 Especially Openness and Sensing and Extraversion and... Extraversion lol. But even those don't match up 100%.



My biggest issue is that there's no good evidence that those measures are useful for predicting anything else. Like Conscientiousness is a deadly predictor of Income, Career Success, Maritial Satisfaction, BMI, Health, Academic performance, and a bunch of other really important life outcomes. Judging-Perceiving isn't.

Carl Jung was a psychologists about 100 years ago and he just said "i notice these things about personality".. i mean cool, that's great for 100 years ago and it was amazing work for the time, but we gave such better technology now. The Big 5 uses much more sophisticated, statically valid methods, and it's basically what every psychologist uses. And for good reason. Jordan Peterson explains it really well here:

View: https://youtu.be/pCceO_D4AlY?t=655

The MBTI questions don't group together in the same way. This is important because it implies a biological basis. But the creators couldn't have known the grouping issue because they didnt have the computational power back then.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IT86Xk1Qd8


Businesses don't like the Big 5 because it offends people. There are clear traits that are good and bad. Neuroticism is clearly bad. Openness is clearly good. Conscientiousness is clearly good. But businesses don't like that because then some people have more skills than others. They'd rather give a personality measure like INFJ

The Myers-Briggs doesn't do a good job at predicting anything. It doesn't predict work performance very well, it doesn't predict academic performance very well. We cant find any biological bases for any of the of the purported traits. We can with Big 5 or IPIP.

Here's a good free version of IPIP which is based off the big 5.

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I think IPIP is much more telling than MBTI.

 

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[Tourmaline]

@ChrisV

I've never heard of IPIP, that was quite interesting. Funny that you link Peterson, he's great.

I can't really disagree with anything you just said. IPIP/Big Five are extremely useful for business. Looking into it more, the IPIP is a measurement of development.

Hence it's very useful for corporations and business, as well as to judge people you want to go into business with or be partners with.

MBTI does not tell you anything about development, at least not easily.

If you were to use both, it's extremely useful.

IPIP does not tell you how someone thinks and experiences. It kind of does, but more so it looks at result not how.

I also see how IPIP is much easier to study scientifically, it's not going to change from moment to moment. Whereas MBTI can and for many do depending on setting, like work vs not work MBTI types.



Apparently I have no imagination . More seriously, I have little care for fantasy atm so I suppose that is accurate.

What Jung found is extremely valid, he identified 8 cognitive processes. There are more, of that I am certain, but the 8 that he found make up 90% of what most people ever use. Meyers and Briggs then made a system based on them. The system is certainly flawed, but the cognitive processes are still real which is what makes the system useful at all. It's useful for predicting behavior, and for business it's useful for creating groups that can work well together.

As for who makes the money money according to MBTI? That's easy, ENTJ. They forge their own path into the world with structure and order, but pay more attention to what currently exists and is than how things should be according to themselves.

What is most useful about MBTI really, regarding one's self, is identifying the processes, and trying out the different type pairs. It's pretty cool and how each experiences is rather unique and different.

Edit: Regarding T-F and J-P, T-F is how one likes to reason and J-P is what one likes to look at first, reason or ideas. T meaning one likes to use a thinking process and reasons with logic and facts about things and existence, F meaning one likes to use a feeling process and reasons with values and expectations about people and groups. J meaning one likes to first use their reasoning process(T-F) which creates structure and order, P meaning one likes to first use their information process(S-N) which creates new ideas and finds holes in whatever is being focused on. Js tend to want things to make sense and be structured, Ps tend to be artistic and want fluidity and options. J-P is probably the hardest to understand, it's like having a system of beliefs vs looking at every belief individually without any system.

 

[ChrisV]

@ChrisV

I've never heard of IPIP, that was quite interesting. Funny that you link Peterson, he's great.

I can't really disagree with anything you just said. IPIP/Big Five are extremely useful for business. Looking into it more, the IPIP is a measurement of development.

Hence it's very useful for corporations and business, as well as to judge people you want to go into business with or be partners with.

MBTI does not tell you anything about development, at least not easily.

If you were to use both, it's extremely useful.

IPIP does not tell you how someone thinks and experiences. It kind of does, but more so it looks at result not how.

I also see how IPIP is much easier to study scientifically, it's not going to change from moment to moment. Whereas MBTI can and for many do depending on setting, like work vs not work MBTI types.

View attachment 26293

Apparently I have no imagination . More seriously, I have little care for fantasy atm so I suppose that is accurate.

What Jung found is extremely valid, he identified 8 cognitive processes. There are more, of that I am certain, but the 8 that he found make up 90% of what most people ever use. Meyers and Briggs then made a system based on them. The system is certainly flawed, but the cognitive processes are still real which is what makes the system useful at all. It's useful for predicting behavior, and for business it's useful for creating groups that can work well together.

As for who makes the money money according to MBTI? That's easy, ENTJ. They forge their own path into the world with structure and order, but pay more attention to what currently exists and is than how things should be according to themselves.

What is most useful about MBTI really, regarding one's self, is identifying the processes, and trying out the different type pairs. It's pretty cool and how each experiences is rather unique and different.

Edit: Regarding T-F and J-P, T-F is how one likes to reason and J-P is what one likes to look at first, reason or ideas. T meaning one likes to use a thinking process and reasons with logic and facts about things and existence, F meaning one likes to use a feeling process and reasons with values and expectations about people and groups. J meaning one likes to first use their reasoning process(T-F) which creates structure and order, P meaning one likes to first use their information process(S-N) which creates new ideas and finds holes in whatever is being focused on. Js tend to want things to make sense and be structured, Ps tend to be artistic and want fluidity and options. J-P is probably the hardest to understand, it's like having a system of beliefs vs looking at every belief individually without any system.

I am so jealous of your personality results. They also found later that personality types tend to cluster into 4 main types... you're a Role Model. You score high on all the positive traits, and low on the negative one.