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srodrigo

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That's cool! All my apps are based on something I needed. You'll find when it's released you'll be adding features and guiding it in different directions based on user feedback. Make sure to include a lot of feedback buttons for this reason!
That's the thing. I'm not great at finding needs for other users, so I end up making stuff I'd like to use, which is another way of spotting needs, and then listen to users from there.

As for Android, I've heard of the argument for building on Android first as you can push out updates without a review period and can iterate quicker. Then when a better product, you can release for iOS.
That's interesting, didn't think of it. The initial review for Android apps is also a bit of pain, but then it's straightforward to push updates (tried with a mobile game, and it was like this). I meant more that iOS users pay more in average, but this strategy of "Android first" makes a lot of sense before investing into iOS.

I'd strongly suggest monetizing from the beginning. It's difficult to get users to pay for something that was once free. Much easier to have a paid option from the start. I've experimented with pricing and features a lot so you'll have opportunities to modify your premium offering while the app is live.

For mobile, since subscribing is so easy (just a tap), the free trial screen is a great idea. With websites, you have to get your card out, type stuff, etc.
Good point. Just see how Whatsapp (Android?) users were in rage when they had to pay $1 to use their Whatsapp app while waiting for their $15 order in the restaurant - ridiculous, but real.

I'll do that then. It will take longer, but it's worth setting up Firebase or whatever people use these days. I'm isolating business logic and data fetching from the UI, so adding data on the cloud after I've got an offline prototype won't be a lot of rework.

Best of luck!!
Thanks for your tips, and best of luck for you too :) Keep us posted, I'm really excited to see your progress.
 

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Finished interviewing freelancers and now I have a team. Everyone keep your fingers crossed I can close a big deal this week.

Unrelated, I'm currently abroad and decided to book myself a luxury hotel for the last two days. They upgraded me and now I'm in some huge apartment being treated like royalty. This motivates me even more to get rich! :D I can't just have a taste and leave it!
 

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Finished interviewing freelancers and now I have a team. Everyone keep your fingers crossed I can close a big deal this week.

Unrelated, I'm currently abroad and decided to book myself a luxury hotel for the last two days. They upgraded me and now I'm in some huge apartment being treated like royalty. This motivates me even more to get rich! :D I can't just have a taste and leave it!
Now is a good time to network.

When I was young and couldn't afford to stay in those super luxury hotels I would still suit up and go enjoy a drink at the bar. I made a lot of connections back then that I leveraged into money.
 

srodrigo

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This might be a noob question, but how do you decide what goes into the free version and what goes into the subscription one? I'm really struggling to decide what to put into the first version of my app.

On one side, I've got grand plans for the app (actually, the "ideal" version looks like 3 apps in one), which is basically mental induced pleasure until I launch an MVP and get users, so I'm aware of keeping it minimal and avoid feature creep. On the other side, I'm reviewing the list of MVP features and the subscription-based version includes very little in addition to the free one, so I'm starting to fear that either:
  1. I'm going to get a nice hobby instead of a business, because no one will pay a dime; or
  2. I'm going to have to make the MVP bigger (and therefore take a few more months to launch) to include at least one of the most valuable features for premium users; or
  3. I'll have to release the free version first, try to get users, and if so then build the subscription-based version. I think you advised me not to do this, as users don't like paying for something that was free (although technically they'd be paying for extra stuff, the current version they use would still be free, but I trust your judgement).
I jumped into building the app straight away without validating with users, as it's an app I haven't found out there and I needed for myself, and I can code an MVP pretty fast, but I'm starting to regret not having used the sketch+landing pages+marketing combo to get a feeling first.
 
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Today is the first time my app made $3k in a month! Last month, it was $2k. My app is being featured frequently so I see big jumps in downloads. If anyone has an app, I highly recommend to submit the App Store Promote form DAILY. Get your app in the App Store managers' minds. If they don't feature it in the US or UK, they'll feature it in smaller countries which will still give it a boost in downloads.
 
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This might be a noob question, but how do you decide what goes into the free version and what goes into the subscription one? I'm really struggling to decide what to put into the first version of my app.

On one side, I've got grand plans for the app (actually, the "ideal" version looks like 3 apps in one), which is basically mental induced pleasure until I launch an MVP and get users, so I'm aware of keeping it minimal and avoid feature creep. On the other side, I'm reviewing the list of MVP features and the subscription-based version includes very little in addition to the free one, so I'm starting to fear that either:
  1. I'm going to get a nice hobby instead of a business, because no one will pay a dime; or
  2. I'm going to have to make the MVP bigger (and therefore take a few more months to launch) to include at least one of the most valuable features for premium users; or
  3. I'll have to release the free version first, try to get users, and if so then build the subscription-based version. I think you advised me not to do this, as users don't like paying for something that was free (although technically they'd be paying for extra stuff, the current version they use would still be free, but I trust your judgement).
I jumped into building the app straight away without validating with users, as it's an app I haven't found out there and I needed for myself, and I can code an MVP pretty fast, but I'm starting to regret not having used the sketch+landing pages+marketing combo to get a feeling first.
Ah, sorry I didn't see this earlier!

Definitely start off with a version that has a premium version (so rule out option 3). If you can't think of extra/special features to make paid, take a free feature that you have an offer paying users more of it. E.g:

- A free app offers 2 free songs per day. The paid version offers unlimited.
- A free app lets you create 10 notes per day. The paid version offers unlimited.
- etc

You can offer ability to backup or save data, more profile customisation options, and so on. If you tell me the app goal or niche I can offer more suggestions. I'm sure you'll think of something (if you haven't already!). :)
 

srodrigo

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Today is the first time my app made $3k in a month! Last month, it was $2k. My app is being featured frequently so I see big jumps in downloads. If anyone has an app, I highly recommend to submit the App Store Promote form DAILY. Get your app in the App Store managers' minds. If they don't feature it in the US or UK, they'll feature it in smaller countries which will still give it a boost in downloads.
Glad to hear that your app si doing better and better :) 3K is already interesting money. I hope that's removed some of your anxiety.

Ah, sorry I didn't see this earlier!

Definitely start off with a version that has a premium version (so rule out option 3). If you can't think of extra/special features to make paid, take a free feature that you have an offer paying users more of it. E.g:

- A free app offers 2 free songs per day. The paid version offers unlimited.
- A free app lets you create 10 notes per day. The paid version offers unlimited.
- etc

You can offer ability to backup or save data, more profile customisation options, and so on. If you tell me the app goal or niche I can offer more suggestions. I'm sure you'll think of something (if you haven't already!). :)

Thanks a lot! I get the point. I actually had in mind backups, more app themes, etc. It's just that in my mind I don't see how people would pay for that (even if it's just a few pounds/month to start with), but again, that might be my assumption and I should test it. I also thought about limiting content (as you said, create 10 notes/day or unlimited if you pay), but it felt a bit too constraining. I've seen people complaining about this on other app's reviews (although there's always someone who complains no matter what).

The app is in the personal growth niche. One of the features is goals setting and accomplishment, and I was thinking to make it free but then add statistics on the paid one. I'm not sure if I'll end up making 2 apps in 1 though... violating the MVP rule. We'll see.

I posted on another thread that I researched similar apps on Google Play/App Store. For good or bad, I found 2 big categories:
  1. Goals/Productivity apps - Some of this have massive downloads, but I'm not oriented into goals as per se, but as a piece in the puzzle.
  2. Actual personal growth apps - More similar to what I want to do, but I found that they don't have massive downloads (100-500k) compared to the other ones. This can be a good thing, as maybe they are not fulfilling the need, or it might mean that people don't have enough interest. Anyway, 500k sounds enough to get 1-2% of paying users and make decent money if it's a subscription. One problem though is that the 500k downloads app had content inside the app (articles, lessons, etc.) that needs lots of time or outsourcing periodically. For all of this, I'm not sure anymore about this kind of app being a good choice.
I actually stopped making the app when I had it mostly functioning with ugly design. Then, fired up Adobe XD to make some real designs. Then I thought I should create a landing page before implementing the designs on the app. Both things are taking me weeks, which means I'm either slow or doing too much. A nice landing page with close-to-final screenshots/designs takes time to build. I wonder if I could live with something leaner to start with...

Also, I realised the damn GDPR requires privacy policy and other stuff for European users who give you their data, which sounds extremely inconvenient given that I just want to validate the idea before I finish building it, or move on. If I have to do this for every idea to avoid the (unlikely?) chance of getting in trouble, it's going to take ages before I get a good one validated.
 
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• nikita •

• nikita •

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Glad to hear that your app si doing better and better :) 3K is already interesting money. I hope that's removed some of your anxiety.
Yes, a bit, though reaching a new milestone is stressful because you're worried you'll make less the following month!

Thanks a lot! I get the point. I actually had in mind backups, more app themes, etc. It's just that in my mind I don't see how people would pay for that (even if it's just a few pounds/month to start with), but again, that might be my assumption and I should test it. I also thought about limiting content (as you said, create 10 notes/day or unlimited if you pay), but it felt a bit too constraining. I've seen people complaining about this on other app's reviews (although there's always someone who complains no matter what).

The app is in the personal growth niche. One of the features is goals setting and accomplishment, and I was thinking to make it free but then add statistics on the paid one. I'm not sure if I'll end up making 2 apps in 1 though... violating the MVP rule. We'll see.
I took away the free access to my app. Users can download it for free, but the subscription screen blocks them from viewing anything unless they subscribe. Yes people complain, but how else are you gonna make money? Don't worry about people complaining. I think I'd recommend to make your app freemium (offer a free version and free trial) at first, in order to have more users giving you feedback. Then once you build up the app even more through user feedback, make it necessary to pay to access.

I posted on another thread that I researched similar apps on Google Play/App Store. For good or bad, I found 2 big categories:
  1. Goals/Productivity apps - Some of this have massive downloads, but I'm not oriented into goals as per se, but as a piece in the puzzle.
  2. Actual personal growth apps - More similar to what I want to do, but I found that they don't have massive downloads (100-500k) compared to the other ones. This can be a good thing, as maybe they are not fulfilling the need, or it might mean that people don't have enough interest. Anyway, 500k sounds enough to get 1-2% of paying users and make decent money if it's a subscription. One problem though is that the 500k downloads app had content inside the app (articles, lessons, etc.) that needs lots of time or outsourcing periodically. For all of this, I'm not sure anymore about this kind of app being a good choice.
I actually stopped making the app when I had it mostly functioning with ugly design. Then, fired up Adobe XD to make some real designs. Then I thought I should create a landing page before implementing the designs on the app. Both things are taking me weeks, which means I'm either slow or doing too much. A nice landing page with close-to-final screenshots/designs takes time to build. I wonder if I could live with something leaner to start with...
Man just launch the thing. Doesn't matter if it's ugly. Launch it ugly, then with every update make it prettier. Screw landing pages, you don't really need them. My one doesn't have a landing page. Honestly just drop it and launch the app. As feedback rolls in you'll know what needs to be improved when.

Also, what are some of those personal development apps? You can check using Sensor Tower if they're making enough money. You can also see if they've got any ads running (useful if you want to see if their traffic is organic).

Also, I realised the damn GDPR requires privacy policy and other stuff for European users who give you their data, which sounds extremely inconvenient given that I just want to validate the idea before I finish building it, or move on. If I have to do this for every idea to avoid the (unlikely?) chance of getting in trouble, it's going to take ages before I get a good one validated.
Use getterms.io and select the GDPR included option, it's what I did and it's good enough.

Launch!!
 

Fastlane Liam

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Remember reading your thread a long time ago, look where you are now. Amazing work, keep going :)
I posted a question in January 2018, so it was nearly 2 years ago. Very inspiring man.
 
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srodrigo

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Yes, a bit, though reaching a new milestone is stressful because you're worried you'll make less the following month!
I understand that. But I'd look at anual revenues, otherwise the lower months will make you feel bad for no reason.

I took away the free access to my app. Users can download it for free, but the subscription screen blocks them from viewing anything unless they subscribe. Yes people complain, but how else are you gonna make money? Don't worry about people complaining. I think I'd recommend to make your app freemium (offer a free version and free trial) at first, in order to have more users giving you feedback. Then once you build up the app even more through user feedback, make it necessary to pay to access.
That's interesting. It sounds like a recipe for getting a bunch of 1 stars from the free users, but you've done it yourself, so there's proof that it works. Sounds like a bold move though!

Man just launch the thing. Doesn't matter if it's ugly. Launch it ugly, then with every update make it prettier. Screw landing pages, you don't really need them. My one doesn't have a landing page. Honestly just drop it and launch the app. As feedback rolls in you'll know what needs to be improved when.
That's very interesting. I'm pretty sure you used landing pages in the past, at least for validating the idea before making the app (not sure whether you used them later for marketing, I can't remember). What's changed since for you to recommend skipping them? In my mind, getting an idea about people's interests is useful, given how long it takes to make an app.

In which case, I guess you now just focus on ASO (and marketing with maybe something like Facebook Ads?), is that correct?

I tried this approach before. Created a game and put it on the store, and that was it. 5-10 downloads (around 40 according to Unity Analytics). Although I didn't market it, but not sure it would have made a difference given the low organic downloads... I guess my ASO wasn't good anyway.

I think being back in London gives me too much time to read during commutes, and got convinced that landing pages (or even running some keyword research) is better than building the app to start with. For games and other app ideas, I tend to just go to some niche with apps with a good amount of downloads, look at the comments/complaints and figure out if I can do better, then make the app or move on.

Also, what are some of those personal development apps? You can check using Sensor Tower if they're making enough money. You can also see if they've got any ads running (useful if you want to see if their traffic is organic).
One of them is called Remente, that's the one with more downloads and more similar to what I want to do (although not quite really). I tried Sensor Tower and they apparently make $7k (Android) and $10k (iOS). Is that per month? Not sure how reliable that data is though, no idea how they calculate it. Anyway, it must be close to the real revenue.

Use getterms.io and select the GDPR included option, it's what I did and it's good enough.
Oh God, that's so helpful. THANKS!

Okay, I think you are convincing me to go ahead and finish the app skipping the pre-marketing. But I think for the next one I'd have to take a leaner approach and release an ugly app quickly (or not that ugly, as Material Design gives you the tools to release something good without much extra effort, on Android) instead of going for a custom (almost brand) design as I've done now.
 

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That's interesting. It sounds like a recipe for getting a bunch of 1 stars from the free users, but you've done it yourself, so there's proof that it works. Sounds like a bold move though!
The bad reviews are typically from users who don't know how to cancel a subscription and think it's your fault they can't google lol. You'll get that from any type of monetization.

That's very interesting. I'm pretty sure you used landing pages in the past, at least for validating the idea before making the app (not sure whether you used them later for marketing, I can't remember). What's changed since for you to recommend skipping them? In my mind, getting an idea about people's interests is useful, given how long it takes to make an app.
Yeah I used them to validate and idea (or rather, pick between 3). My landing pages weren't too good though, and turns out the app that took off the most performed the worse during that landing page phase.

I don't suggest you use them for apps because any ads you use should drive traffic directly to your app's iTunes page rather than a landing page. And no one actually views your app's landing page if they've already downloaded you app.

In which case, I guess you now just focus on ASO (and marketing with maybe something like Facebook Ads?), is that correct?
Just ASO and Apple Search Ads Basic.

I tried this approach before. Created a game and put it on the store, and that was it. 5-10 downloads (around 40 according to Unity Analytics). Although I didn't market it, but not sure it would have made a difference given the low organic downloads... I guess my ASO wasn't good anyway.
ASO is tough to get going these days. Only recently did mine improve enough to give me significant downloads. The reason my app took off was because it was featured on launch which skyrocketed the downloads and they've stayed there due to continuous features. Otherwise, before the features it was getting 4-ish downloads a day.

What's most annoying is Apple used to have a Top Grossing section, next to Top Free and Top Paid. They took it out when iOS 11 launched. My app is constantly top 10 on Top Grossing (the stats are still available, they just don't show it on the App Store). I get mad that I would probably be rich if that section still existed.

One of them is called Remente, that's the one with more downloads and more similar to what I want to do (although not quite really). I tried Sensor Tower and they apparently make $7k (Android) and $10k (iOS). Is that per month? Not sure how reliable that data is though, no idea how they calculate it. Anyway, it must be close to the real revenue.
They take subscription stats from the App Store (they don't factor in any in-app ads). They also show the amount earned after Apple's 30% cut. It's pretty accurate.
 

srodrigo

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Okay, I'm convinced. I'll use the 'App store research + User complains + Sensor Tower + Ship quickl & iterate' combo, to see if I can get something valuable that has a chance to make good revenue. Thanks so much again for your advice!

My app is constantly top 10 on Top Grossing (the stats are still available, they just don't show it on the App Store). I get mad that I would probably be rich if that section still existed.
Have you considered porting it to Android? They still have that section. The revenue might be lower than on iOS, but you might get a good surprise if you get on that page.
 
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Okay, I'm convinced. I'll use the 'App store research + User complains + Sensor Tower + Ship quickl & iterate' combo, to see if I can get something valuable that has a chance to make good revenue. Thanks so much again for your advice!
Awesome!! I hope it brings you a lot of success :)

Have you considered porting it to Android? They still have that section. The revenue might be lower than on iOS, but you might get a good surprise if you get on that page.
Interesting. I don't know how their Top Grossing algorithm works though, it might be different. I definitely want to release it for Android too, it'll just take a huge amount of time for me to program.
 
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Almost got pressured by my parents into wasting my money for a mortgage. I was excited to get out of their house because they create a horrible atmosphere, but I realized I'd have no money left, and I'd owe my parents a lot. I don't like owing people things, especially people who'd use it against me in every conversation. I will buy a house when I can buy it in cash. Thinking of just F*cking off to a cheap country for 2 weeks while my dad is at home so I can avoid the constant fighting and pessimism. He was at home 24/7 for 2 months and I'm 99% sure I had a mental breakdown from the stress. I know I'm not supposed to blame my parents for my downfalls, but there's only so much you can take. /essay

Anyway, my app is doing awesome, about to roll out a huge update. My agency is also doing really good. Got a mentor recently and it's been a huge help.
 

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Almost got pressured by my parents into wasting my money for a mortgage. I was excited to get out of their house because they create a horrible atmosphere, but I realized I'd have no money left, and I'd owe my parents a lot. I don't like owing people things, especially people who'd use it against me in every conversation. I will buy a house when I can buy it in cash. Thinking of just F*cking off to a cheap country for 2 weeks while my dad is at home so I can avoid the constant fighting and pessimism. He was at home 24/7 for 2 months and I'm 99% sure I had a mental breakdown from the stress. I know I'm not supposed to blame my parents for my downfalls, but there's only so much you can take. /essay

Anyway, my app is doing awesome, about to roll out a huge update. My agency is also doing really good. Got a mentor recently and it's been a huge help.
Are you me? This was me one year ago, I have the exact same attitude as you. Parents applying alot of pressure to get a mortgage, when I dont even know where I would live. Living with them is a cesspool of negativity. Honestly man just move the F*ck out if you can afford it, its worth it for the mental free space you'll gain. If not renting you could look at renting a room, SpareRoom - the UK's No. 1 flatsharing site can get a bedroom with bills + council tax included for £300~ a month.

And lets be honest, maybe your parents want you to move out. You are an adult now, should be paying for yourself. Your parents raised you for 20 years maybe they want some privacy back too.
 
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Nice thread, will be following! How do you plan to scale the app?
I have a long list of features to implement! I recently rolled an updated that fleshed out the app enough to compete with the big ones making hundreds of thousands a month. I'm also getting more recognition from Apple who invited me to their HQ recently. With all these updates and frequent features, the profit and userbase is growing nicely. A potential option for the future is to develop the product for desktop, apple watch, etc.
 
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Are you me? This was me one year ago, I have the exact same attitude as you. Parents applying alot of pressure to get a mortgage, when I dont even know where I would live. Living with them is a cesspool of negativity. Honestly man just move the F*ck out if you can afford it, its worth it for the mental free space you'll gain. If not renting you could look at renting a room, SpareRoom - the UK's No. 1 flatsharing site can get a bedroom with bills + council tax included for £300~ a month.

And lets be honest, maybe your parents want you to move out. You are an adult now, should be paying for yourself. Your parents raised you for 20 years maybe they want some privacy back too.
Can't afford it right now. Tbh I'd rather take their BS than share a place with a random person, I'm an extreme introvert and like my privacy and comfort of a nice house. I do pay rent for my parents though. Another option is to move somewhere cheaper. I think the best option right now is to keep suffering and working until I make enough to move out into a comfortable place.
 

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this thread has been a delight to read, i can't wait to read more, great work and good luck
 

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this thread has been a delight to read, i can't wait to read more, great work and good luck
Hehe just went back and reread it myself, I had horrible flashbacks of the the times when it was particularly tough. Can't believe it's been over 2 years!
 

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Wow, I just finished reading the thread. What an amazing journey!
I will follow the thread and I wish you even more future success!
 

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