Life after branding? Anyone else has a problem with brandbook and content implementation?

[Evgen]

Hey entrepreneurs, has anyone hired a freelancer/agency for branding? Did you have any problems later on implementing this branding into your content? (For example, social media). And was the brandbook useful enough as a guide for this? I wonder how everyone deals with the “life after branding”?
Please share some experience

 

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[Lex DeVille]

Hey entrepreneurs, has anyone hired a freelancer/agency for branding? Did you have any problems later on implementing this branding into your content? (For example, social media). And was the brandbook useful enough as a guide for this? I wonder how everyone deals with the “life after branding”?
Please share some experience

I spent over $10k on branding with an agency and came away with an awesome brand book and beautiful brand materials (colors/fonts/graphics, etc.).

Unfortunately, when it came time to apply it to content, I struggled. Even following the suggestions, it was difficult to see how everything should come together.

There were always unique situations that extended beyond the scope of what was covered in the brand guide.

All of the brands I've had the best experiences with were those I created myself because I had intimate knowledge and insight into how things were meant to look rather than interpreting someone else's vision.

 

[Evgen]

I spent over $10k on branding with an agency and came away with an awesome brand book and beautiful brand materials (colors/fonts/graphics, etc.).

Unfortunately, when it came time to apply it to content, I struggled. Even following the suggestions, it was difficult to see how everything should come together.

There were always unique situations that extended beyond the scope of what was covered in the brand guide.

All of the brands I've had the best experiences with were those I created myself because I had intimate knowledge and insight into how things were meant to look rather than interpreting someone else's vision.

Yes, same problems... Thanks a lot for the insight!
Can you give maybe some advice about any specific tools you've tried to make the process of content creation smoother? Especially graphic tools or some sort of managers maybe? Any info will be really helpful.

 

[Lex DeVille]

Can you give maybe some advice about any specific tools you've tried to make the process of content creation smoother? Especially graphic tools or some sort of managers maybe? Any info will be really helpful.

The only content I create are blog articles. I don't have anything going on social media except YouTube for my personal brand. For that, I make talking head videos that generally have no graphics.

 

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[Evgen]

The only content I create are blog articles. I don't have anything going on social media except YouTube for my personal brand. For that, I make talking head videos that generally have no graphics.

Fair enough, thanks for sharing

 

[MitchC]

I’ve had the total opposite experience.

Paid $500ish for brand guidelines and it’s the best thing I ever did.

All my content is now consistent.

I use it all the time.

I’ve sent it to other designers for content, packaging and web design. Also sent it to content creators, agencies, and photographers.

Super professional too rather than sending them a bunch of files or examples or trying to describe what you want.

Sets a good standard and first impression. Kind of like a nice business card might have back in the day.

Mine just has logo, colours, fonts, and a little section of example photos and a description of the vibe for them.

I use it to design my own stuff too and I’m not a designer but it always comes out consistent and nice.

I use canva for ad creatives and it’s really easy. Just load up your brand palette to the colours. You can probably do the same with the fonts.

Maybe your branding is more complex than mine. Or maybe you just need to hire a designer for your design projects. Having brand guidelines won’t turn you into a good designer.

It’s improved the look and consistency of my ad creatives but I know my limits. I can make basic ad creatives but I cannot design landing pages or emails or product packaging, I need a designer for those projects.

 

[Evgen]

I’ve had the total opposite experience.

Paid $500ish for brand guidelines and it’s the best thing I ever did.

All my content is now consistent.

I use it all the time.

I’ve sent it to other designers for content, packaging and web design. Also sent it to content creators, agencies, and photographers.

Super professional too rather than sending them a bunch of files or examples or trying to describe what you want.

Sets a good standard and first impression. Kind of like a nice business card might have back in the day.

Mine just has logo, colours, fonts, and a little section of example photos and a description of the vibe for them.

I use it to design my own stuff too and I’m not a designer but it always comes out consistent and nice.

I use canva for ad creatives and it’s really easy. Just load up your brand palette to the colours. You can probably do the same with the fonts.

Maybe your branding is more complex than mine. Or maybe you just need to hire a designer for your design projects. Having brand guidelines won’t turn you into a good designer.

It’s improved the look and consistency of my ad creatives but I know my limits. I can make basic ad creatives but I cannot design landing pages or emails or product packaging, I need a designer for those projects.

Thanks a lot for so a complex response!
Yes, I think my situation is a bit more complicated because I struggle the most with content for social media (especially Instagram). My brand book doesn't cover all the visual cases I need for my page. Therefore, for now I am doing it myself due to a limited budget (maybe I will hire a designer later). But for now, I thought I'd ask other business owners, maybe someone has specific approaches to solving this. Indeed, Canva sounds interesting, thanks! (Heard about the tool, but never tried it). You mean to buy Canva pro, right?

 

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[Johnny boy]

I have an eye for it and do it myself because until we are doing 10m or more it's not worth improving past what I can do myself.

Consistency, knowing your hex codes for color, knowing your font pairings, etc. Gotta have it look good on desktop, mobile, on a vehicle, etc. Needs different versions for different applications.

0ab463 and 424242 for text, aqua grotesque for display font. I can recite that in my sleep but can't remember my girlfriends phone number though lol.

 

[Evgen]

I have an eye for it and do it myself because until we are doing 10m or more it's not worth improving past what I can do myself.

Consistency, knowing your hex codes for color, knowing your font pairings, etc. Gotta have it look good on desktop, mobile, on a vehicle, etc. Needs different versions for different applications.

0ab463 and 424242 for text, aqua grotesque for display font. I can recite that in my sleep but can't remember my girlfriends phone number though lol.

haha funny about the girlfriend's number

and what software/tools are you using the most?

 

[Johnny boy]

haha funny about the girlfriend's number

and what soft are you using the most?

for software I use adobe stuff for anything I need

 

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[bpbrewer]

In my experience, "branding" is kind of like dog training. Half the time it's not the dog that needs training, it's the owner (no offense).

Branding studios are great at creating beautiful and complex design guidelines, but in my experience, they are most useful to artists and graphic designers who know how to utilize them. Most business owners do not know how to utilize them because they're not graphic designers.

So unless you're intending to hire a graphic designer for all of your marketing assets, then hiring a branding agency may not be an optimal solution.

However, there are three things you can do to make branding easy on yourself.

1. Learn basic concepts of color, typography, and layout. It will take you 15 min, and will provide a huge ROI.
2. Pick a color and font scheme that you like, and save yourself some money.
3. Keep it simple and consistent. That's the key.

Unless you're a design studio or an art gallery, you do not need to wow your customers with insanely clean designs. Often, all you need to project is that you got your shit together, and consistency is the key here. Simplicity is to help you keep it consistent. The simpler your design is, the more consistent it will become.

Colors:

1. Learn something about colors:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMS3VwGh3HY

2. Pick a color scheme (2-3 colors max). keep it simple.

I like to use https://color.adobe.com/explore to find color combinations and check out trends. Or use
ColorSpace - Color Palettes Generator and Color Gradient Tool to generate color schemes.

Typography:

1. Learn something about choosing fonts:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4cW79vF1mU&t=427s

2. Pick one or two fonts from the video above. Keep it simple.

You can also use Generate font pairing using neural nets to generate font pairings as well.

If you want to take it a step further, use Why add Golden Ratio Typography to your projects? to generate appropriate font sizes and line heights to make typography look neat.


Layouts:

1. Learn:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kg76CMOO__Y

2. keep it simple!

And go down the rabbit hole if you'd like.

The beautiful thing is that you do not need to be a photoshop wizard to utilize fonts, colors, and layouts. All of these things are applicable to MS Word documents. I'm sure you know how to use that.

 

[Walter Hay]

All my content is now consistent.

To my mind, spending $500ish for some very basic knowledge is an example of what I see as the approach by many entrepreneurs who are concerned about being too ordinary in their presentations.

In my Exploit book I make a simple statement about consistency in the visual presentations that form much of the advertising that will be undertaken, and I don't charge $500 for it. I don't regard it as mind-blowing and I admit that I read it in a book on marketing.

By providing a great example of the effect of emotional promises I highlight in one chapter the need to understand emotions that influence decision making when buying. Here is part of it:

Chapter 4. The Importance of Understanding the Influence of Emotions
In 2015 The Harvard Business Review (HBR) published an article on this subject. The title was: “The New Science of Customer Emotions A better way to drive growth and profitability”. Well, the understanding of customer emotions is not entirely new, but the scientific approach is.

A great understanding of customer emotions led to Ringling Bros. and Barnum & Bailey Circus (started in 1871) becoming the longest-lived and most successful and well known circus ever, not closing until 2017, two years after HBR published what they were sure was a ground-breaking development in marketing.

So, what were some of the emotions the circus advertising dished out in abundance to draw the crowds and keep them coming for 146 years? ................................................................................

In answer I listed 5 of the advertised emotional impact factors that kept that business operating successfully for 1 1/2 centuries. If anyone is interested, I will provide that list.

Walter

 

[Evgen]

In my experience, "branding" is kind of like dog training. Half the time it's not the dog that needs training, it's the owner (no offense).

Branding studios are great at creating beautiful and complex design guidelines, but in my experience, they are most useful to artists and graphic designers who know how to utilize them. Most business owners do not know how to utilize them because they're not graphic designers.

So unless you're intending to hire a graphic designer for all of your marketing assets, then hiring a branding agency may not be an optimal solution.

However, there are three things you can do to make branding easy on yourself.

1. Learn basic concepts of color, typography, and layout. It will take you 15 min, and will provide a huge ROI.
2. Pick a color and font scheme that you like, and save yourself some money.
3. Keep it simple and consistent. That's the key.

Unless you're a design studio or an art gallery, you do not need to wow your customers with insanely clean designs. Often, all you need to project is that you got your shit together, and consistency is the key here. Simplicity is to help you keep it consistent. The simpler your design is, the more consistent it will become.

Colors:

1. Learn something about colors:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMS3VwGh3HY

2. Pick a color scheme (2-3 colors max). keep it simple.

I like to use https://color.adobe.com/explore to find color combinations and check out trends. Or use
ColorSpace - Color Palettes Generator and Color Gradient Tool to generate color schemes.

Typography:

1. Learn something about choosing fonts:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4cW79vF1mU&t=427s

2. Pick one or two fonts from the video above. Keep it simple.

You can also use Generate font pairing using neural nets to generate font pairings as well.

If you want to take it a step further, use Why add Golden Ratio Typography to your projects? to generate appropriate font sizes and line heights to make typography look neat.


Layouts:

1. Learn:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kg76CMOO__Y

2. keep it simple!

And go down the rabbit hole if you'd like.

The beautiful thing is that you do not need to be a photoshop wizard to utilize fonts, colors, and layouts. All of these things are applicable to MS Word documents. I'm sure you know how to use that.

Wow thank you so much for such an amazing response and all the materials!!!
I will be happy to study them and I really appreciate that!

 

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[MitchC]

To my mind, spending $500ish for some very basic knowledge is an example of what I see as the approach by many entrepreneurs who are concerned about being too ordinary in their presentations.

In my Exploit book I make a simple statement about consistency in the visual presentations that form much of the advertising that will be undertaken, and I don't charge $500 for it. I don't regard it as mind-blowing and I admit that I read it in a book on marketing.

By providing a great example of the effect of emotional promises I highlight in one chapter the need to understand emotions that influence decision making when buying. Here is part of it:

Chapter 4. The Importance of Understanding the Influence of Emotions
In 2015 The Harvard Business Review (HBR) published an article on this subject. The title was: “The New Science of Customer Emotions A better way to drive growth and profitability”. Well, the understanding of customer emotions is not entirely new, but the scientific approach is.

A great understanding of customer emotions led to Ringling Bros. and Barnum & Bailey Circus (started in 1871) becoming the longest-lived and most successful and well known circus ever, not closing until 2017, two years after HBR published what they were sure was a ground-breaking development in marketing.

So, what were some of the emotions the circus advertising dished out in abundance to draw the crowds and keep them coming for 146 years? ................................................................................

In answer I listed 5 of the advertised emotional impact factors that kept that business operating successfully for 1 1/2 centuries. If anyone is interested, I will provide that list.

Walter

I’m not sure I’m understanding correctly but you are saying I paid $500 for something I could have done myself with basic knowledge? I disagree

I took my design and brand as far as I could myself with basic knowledge. I probably had over 1m in sales before paying for this brand guidelines.

The guidelines kept the logo and a the general colours I was using, just made them nicer.

I was able to pick the original colours myself by researching things like @bpbrewer posted.

So while you can do it yourself there is a difference between theory and knowledge and execution.

It takes experience and a good eye to get good at something.

You could learn to code for years or pay someone who’s been doing it for years $500 to code something.

It’s the same thing.

Why would I do my own brand guidelines and design when I can pay someone $500 to do a much better job than I ever could.

This is a high end ecom brand so design is important.

For other companies it’s probably not as important.

For startups and new companies it’s not important at all.

There’s truth to what I think you are saying but I think design and good design as a profession deserves a bit more respect than telling someone it can be learned in 5 minutes of YouTube or reading.

 

[Walter Hay]

I’m not sure I’m understanding correctly but you are saying I paid $500 for something I could have done myself with basic knowledge? I disagree

I took my design and brand as far as I could myself with basic knowledge. I probably had over 1m in sales before paying for this brand guidelines.

The guidelines kept the logo and a the general colours I was using, just made them nicer.

I was able to pick the original colours myself by researching things like @bpbrewer posted.

So while you can do it yourself there is a difference between theory and knowledge and execution.

It takes experience and a good eye to get good at something.

You could learn to code for years or pay someone who’s been doing it for years $500 to code something.

It’s the same thing.

Why would I do my own brand guidelines and design when I can pay someone $500 to do a much better job than I ever could.

This is a high end ecom brand so design is important.

For other companies it’s probably not as important.

For startups and new companies it’s not important at all.

There’s truth to what I think you are saying but I think design and good design as a profession deserves a bit more respect than telling someone it can be learned in 5 minutes of YouTube or reading.

I am pleased for you that you had sufficient basic knowledge to progress as far as you did before deciding to get brand guidelines from an expert and you have found it so useful.

Regards,
Walter

 

[bpbrewer]

I’m not sure I’m understanding correctly but you are saying I paid $500 for something I could have done myself with basic knowledge? I disagree

I took my design and brand as far as I could myself with basic knowledge. I probably had over 1m in sales before paying for this brand guidelines.

The guidelines kept the logo and a the general colours I was using, just made them nicer.

I was able to pick the original colours myself by researching things like @bpbrewer posted.

So while you can do it yourself there is a difference between theory and knowledge and execution.

It takes experience and a good eye to get good at something.

You could learn to code for years or pay someone who’s been doing it for years $500 to code something.

It’s the same thing.

Why would I do my own brand guidelines and design when I can pay someone $500 to do a much better job than I ever could.

This is a high end ecom brand so design is important.

For other companies it’s probably not as important.

For startups and new companies it’s not important at all.

There’s truth to what I think you are saying but I think design and good design as a profession deserves a bit more respect than telling someone it can be learned in 5 minutes of YouTube or reading.

I agree with you too. Paying $500 to someone knowledgeable and with experience can be worth every penny. You took the time to learn and create the first iteration, but after you've understood the basics you took it to a pro who turned your ideas into something more polished. That's the way to go. I encourage people to first get a basic understanding of the fundamentals and then go to the pro. Without it, it's hard to use deliverables.

 

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[John Clancy]

I spent over $10k on branding with an agency and came away with an awesome brand book and beautiful brand materials (colors/fonts/graphics, etc.).

Unfortunately, when it came time to apply it to content, I struggled. Even following the suggestions, it was difficult to see how everything should come together.

There were always unique situations that extended beyond the scope of what was covered in the brand guide.

All of the brands I've had the best experiences with were those I created myself because I had intimate knowledge and insight into how things were meant to look rather than interpreting someone else's vision.

@Lex DeVille this is super interesting. If you don't mind sharing, I'd love to know - what do you think could have improved the usefulness of the brand book/brand materials you received from that agency?

For instance:

1. would it have been useful if they gave you specific social media templates etc. that you could use to put the brand identity into practice?
2. Would it have been useful for them to create a certain number of "live" content pieces so you could see how the guidelines translated into action?

I ask because I work for a web design company where we occasionally provide branding services (when the project budget justifies it + when it's required).

This typically includes the fundamentals like the core logo design, multiple variants for different use cases, colour palette, fonts, graphical guidance and more.

IMO, solidifying the visual identity of the brand is only the tip of the iceberg. There's a whole level of "story" (mission, vision, values and positioning) that needs to be unpacked before a visual identity can really hit home... and that's even before we get into the practical application of the assets - which is the issue you've noted here.

 

[Lex DeVille]

@Lex DeVille this is super interesting. If you don't mind sharing, I'd love to know - what do you think could have improved the usefulness of the brand book/brand materials you received from that agency?

For instance:

1. would it have been useful if they gave you specific social media templates etc. that you could use to put the brand identity into practice?
2. Would it have been useful for them to create a certain number of "live" content pieces so you could see how the guidelines translated into action?

I ask because I work for a web design company where we occasionally provide branding services (when the project budget justifies it + when it's required).

This typically includes the fundamentals like the core logo design, multiple variants for different use cases, colour palette, fonts, graphical guidance and more.

IMO, solidifying the visual identity of the brand is only the tip of the iceberg. There's a whole level of "story" (mission, vision, values and positioning) that needs to be unpacked before a visual identity can really hit home... and that's even before we get into the practical application of the assets - which is the issue you've noted here.

Hmm, I'm not sure. Maybe a consultation where we talk more about the specific ways I intended to use the brand assets.

For instance, I wanted to use my branding in some courses, but I had no examples of what that might look like, so the result became an ugly mess.

My brand guide was thorough, but the areas that weren't accounted for became a problem.

The identity was pulled together. The positioning, mission, etc. was all defined.

Ultimately, I purchased it and defined it, but the vision just wasn't my own and I couldn't pull it together with my level of experience at the time. So I probably needed a bit more hand-holding.

 

[John Clancy]

Hmm, I'm not sure. Maybe a consultation where we talk more about the specific ways I intended to use the brand assets.

For instance, I wanted to use my branding in some courses, but I had no examples of what that might look like, so the result became an ugly mess.

My brand guide was thorough, but the areas that weren't accounted for became a problem.

The identity was pulled together. The positioning, mission, etc. was all defined.

Ultimately, I purchased it and defined it, but the vision just wasn't my own and I couldn't pull it together with my level of experience at the time. So I probably needed a bit more hand-holding.

Interesting. It sounds like you're pretty clear on how you would work towards a better outcome if you did it again today, so that's good.

FWIW, I agree: getting more clarity upfront with respect to how you wanted to use the brand - and maybe having access to them to ask follow up questions for a given period after the work was finished - would have been useful.

I don't think the typical purchaser of these services is going to have enough knowledge to deploy brand assets across different contexts without some expert guidance, so your experience is probably fairly typical.

In any case, valuable lessons - thanks for sharing!

 

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[Andy Black]

I'm rubbish at anything to do with logos, colours, fonts, images, and graphic design so I don't bother with it.

Black and white, simple, and out of the box does for my own stuff. It's why I love doing text ads.

Our Google Ads clients are typically in emergency home service niches. We find super simple landing pages work best. Relevancy matters most and the design just has to look legit.

A design agency client did knock up something for my personal brand website but I didn't like it and stuck with black, white, and simple.

I know I could do with thumbnails on my YouTube videos. Designing anything from scratch is beyond me so I'll likely just look at templates in Canva.

I suspect most business owners are like myself and just want something simple and to get on with properly building the brand by getting new clients, delighting them, and getting word-of-mouth referrals.

 

[bpbrewer]

I'm rubbish at anything to do with logos, colours, fonts, images, and graphic design so I don't bother with it.

Black and white, simple, and out of the box does for my own stuff. It's why I love doing text ads.

Our Google Ads clients are typically in emergency home service niches. We find super simple landing pages work best. Relevancy matters most and the design just has to look legit.

A design agency client did knock up something for my personal brand website but I didn't like it and stuck with black, white, and simple.

I know I could do with thumbnails on my YouTube videos. Designing anything from scratch is beyond me so I'll likely just look at templates in Canva.

I suspect most business owners are like myself and just want something simple and to get on with properly building the brand by getting new clients, delighting them, and getting word-of-mouth referrals.

Your experience is also a good example that this stuff is just wallpaper. It's decoration. It can help a nice house look nicer, but it won't turn a shit house into a nice house. You've focused on building a good house first, and I think that's what many entrepreneurs miss.

Far too many entrepreneurs worry more about their logos and color schemes than they worry about their products and services, or how they're going to connect with their potential customers. As if "branding" represents their business more than their actual offerings, or themselves.

I do want to be careful here and also not generalize "branding" as only pertaining to "graphic design" because branding goes a little deeper than that. To me, branding is an accentuation of the overall personality and character of the people behind the business, or the character of the product or service. But that character needs to be there first. Good and thoughtful graphic design can help accentuate it just like salt can be used to bring out the flavor of a dish. But, that said, having a plate full of salt does not make it a dish.

So while you don't worry about graphic design, you do have a brand. A brand of you. And in many ways, simple black text on white may suit your personality and character just as well. The same goes for your clients. If someone's shitter is clogged up and flooding the bathroom, the homeowner does not care about your client's logos or color schemes. They care about their shitter not being clogged.

 

[Andy Black]

a plate full of salt does not make it a dish.

If someone's shitter is clogged up and flooding the bathroom, the homeowner does not care about your client's logos or color schemes. They care about their shitter not being clogged.

You have a wise way with words.

To summarise using the theme of clogged toilets ...

You can't polish a turd.

 

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[Walter Hay]

Hey entrepreneurs, has anyone hired a freelancer/agency for branding? Did you have any problems later on implementing this branding into your content? (For example, social media). And was the brandbook useful enough as a guide for this? I wonder how everyone deals with the “life after branding”?
Please share some experience

Starting a new business facing many entrenched competitors, and without having any branding, logo, slogan etc., was a challenge.

The first thing I did was to visit those competitors' websites, visit their shops and talk to their sales people, as well as obtain samples and advertising material from them.

It quickly became apparent that they had mostly used advertising agencies to prepare their websites, print advertising, including print Yellow Pages (YP). (Universally required in those days)

There was an all-pervading sameness about all their advertising. The print YP in the product category I was entering was full of large, color ads, and they all followed the same pattern. They all had fancy logos, but the layout was an enlarged version of a business card!

They all made the same mistake: Trying to encourage viewers to buy the products in the business category. Why?? Viewers were looking at that category because they wanted to buy. Our little ads encouraged people to buy from us. I didn't waste money on bigger ads.

I designed my own logo and slogan. The logo clearly identified the business name, the type of business, and the business attitude to quality. The brief slogan conveyed our USP without actually stating it.

Within 2 years my business had obliterated the top competitor's business. My YP ads were very small, black print on the yellow. The Telco monitored our phone numbers that only appeared in those little ads and reported that we received response calls at the rate of 11 to 1 compared to the responses to the big ads used by the competitors.

The business boomed and I franchised it, selling numerous franchises. I never employed an advertising agency, but sold many products to them.

Walter