Is Marriage Part of the Script?

[MattR82]

The merits of government contract can be debated. But I think the societal and child rearing benefit of strong and proper marriage is huge.

You can be in a fulfilling monogamous relationship and not be "married." I know people that are married that have a horrible influence on their children, and also those not married that have a positive effect on their kids.

 

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[NuclearPuma]

You can be in a fulfilling monogamous relationship and not be "married." I know people that are married that have a horrible influence on their children, and also those not married that have a positive effect on their kids.

To the point:

There are single people that are both either happy or miserable.

There are married people that are both either happy or miserable.

So maybe it's not that one leads to happiness, and one leads to misery, maybe it's the people involved that lead to happiness or misery.

Both of them, single redpilled alpha life or married monogamous life, can be viewed as two opposing scripts.

It goes back to my first reply in this thread that YOU write your own script and YOU choose which one to follow on your own terms. There are happy and miserable people on both sides.

I think the tendency of this board would be to say "Awe Screw women that's scripted and I'm not." So I want to direct readers to think for themselves a little bit and not just blindly adopt negative attitudes towards women or relationships just because of anecdotes of scripted men being screwed over by scripted women.

Coming to some message board and asking about these big life decisions is looking outward for answers. Just make sure you are looking inward too.

 

[Merging Left]

I believe MJ is not married and doesn't have kids, if that tells you anything.

And Bill Gates is married, with children. What's your point?

It seems like there's some belief among several of you that getting married will actually corrupt your relationship. You're not thinking about this the right way.

Getting married is something you should do if you WANT to do it. /thread

If your approach to marriage is "The government wants me to get married. Big business wants me to get married. Society expects me to get married. THEREFORE, I will not get married" you're just going against the grain for the sake of it. That's not "Unscripted ".

Unscripted isn't about rejecting societal norms or expectations. It's about challenging expectations objectively, and then CHOOSING how you want to live your life. If how you want to live aligns with societal expectations, then that's totally fine. Similarly, if you want to do something that goes against societal norms (simply because you want to do it), then that's fine too. One choice isn't better than another choice. The key here is that what society wants you to do should be entirely irrelevant in your decision-making process.

If your only reason for getting married is because you're "supposed to." Then sure, you're following a script.

tl;dr if you're avoiding marriage solely because society wants you to get married, then you completely missed the point of unscripted and you're really just a hipster.

 

[CPisHere]

And Bill Gates is married, with children. What's your point?

Bill Gates didn't write the book on The Script. MJ did.

I'm happily married. My point was the society's ideas around marriage result in misery, not that you shouldn't get married.

 

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[Merging Left]

I'm happily married. My point was the society's ideas around marriage result in misery, not that you shouldn't get married.

There certainly is a disconnect between what marriage is really like and what society promises it'll be like. The truth is that the day after you get married, everything is exactly the same as the day before.

I think that there are definitely people who get married only because they're "supposed to", or because they were told that getting married will solve their relationship problems. That's the Script.

 

[BNeumann]

And Bill Gates is married, with children. What's your point?

It seems like there's some belief among several of you that getting married will actually corrupt your relationship. You're not thinking about this the right way.

Getting married is something you should do if you WANT to do it. /thread

If your approach to marriage is "The government wants me to get married. Big business wants me to get married. Society expects me to get married. THEREFORE, I will not get married" you're just going against the grain for the sake of it. That's not "Unscripted ".

Unscripted isn't about rejecting societal norms or expectations. It's about challenging expectations objectively, and then CHOOSING how you want to live your life. If how you want to live aligns with societal expectations, then that's totally fine. Similarly, if you want to do something that goes against societal norms (simply because you want to do it), then that's fine too. One choice isn't better than another choice. The key here is that what society wants you to do should be entirely irrelevant in your decision-making process.

If your only reason for getting married is because you're "supposed to." Then sure, you're following a script.

tl;dr if you're avoiding marriage solely because society wants you to get married, then you completely missed the point of unscripted and you're really just a hipster.

I'm unscripted and my wife is as well. You know what really goes against societal norms? STAYING married. I've got over 20 years with my wife because we're happy with each other. If you're unscripted that means you make rules. Unscription is not another script. You make you're own. Because you are FREE. Free to choose marriage or not. I CHOOSE mine every day because I WANT to. Not for any other reason.

 

[CPisHere]

There certainly is a disconnect between what marriage is really like and what society promises it'll be like. The truth is that the day after you get married, everything is exactly the same as the day before.

Society's expectations, and thus our own expectations, are different the next day. Married men start taking on Beta behavior, being subservient to "make momma happy" and misery is around the corner.

 

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[Merging Left]

Society's expectations, and thus our own expectations, are different the next day. Married men start taking on Beta behavior, being subservient to "make momma happy" and misery is around the corner.

Yes, I suppose. Although I'm not sure that has anything to do with actually being married?

I think the entire point that I was trying to make is that if your decisions are being influenced by external expectations, whether those expectations are coming from society or from anti-society (not sure how else to phrase that), then you're making your decisions for the wrong reasons. Simple.

 

[adventureguru]

Pictures are worth a thousand words of explanation

 

[TKDTyler]

There are a ton of great points being made.

However, the line between the script/s and the social rules we fashioned over millennia for the sake of stabilising ourselves is very blurred. Certainly marriage is used and manipulated by many different scripts for different purposes.

This is part of what I find myself questioning - Yes, it was a form to stabilize society, but as society progresses, marriage may or may not hold the same purpose. What I am trying to understand is the purpose of engaging in a marriage past the superficiality, business, and government ties. How does a marriage bring any additional value vs having a solid relationship without being married.

Maybe millennials have been scripted to believe institutions and behavior patterns that have ensured the survival of the species for millennia have suddenly become obsolete in the last 30 years.

I would argue that marriage does the opposite. Monogamy in nature is an extremely rare occurance - biologically, the best way to ensure the survival of a species is to reproduce. Monogamy minimizes that possibility. (I would like to not derail this discussion into monogamy into polygamy as it is not the purpose of the thread)

@MattR82
I would never do it again. Elope. Get married on a beach or a mountain or the frickin moon and don’t invite anyone. Getting married is about the couple, not making guests happy....

Still waiting for Elon Musk to create this startup...

Yes, Marriage & kids IS part of the Script. But it's about Society's specific ideas that you should get married and what that entails - not the marriage/kids specifically.

Historically, there is an underlying script that narrates "Do not have kids if you are not married."

There is a specific word in the human language for a child born out of wedlock. I can see how marriage brings stability for the child and provides security in their youth though.

You guys may think marriage is a script but if you dig for the truth in the roots of feminism you will find that it's original goal was to destroy marriages and "liberate" woman from men. Its result has been many unhappy and unfulfilled women and men.

The merits of government contract can be debated. But I think the societal and child rearing benefit of strong and proper marriage is huge.

It is also hugely important for the outcome of the children. Children with single mothers by a wide margin perform more poorly in school, are more likely to become an addict, more likely to wind up in jail, just more likely to mis behave and make bad decisions in general.

You certainly don't want to be in an unfulfilling relationship. But don't be jaded and believe that fulfilling monogamous relationships do not exist. They do. BUT they are impossible if you don't have your own life together and if you conform to modern "politically correct" expectations.


1. Modern Scripted Society creates weak men.
2. Modern scripted society creates entitled, egotistical (in their own eyes faultless) women.
3. Pairing an egotistical woman with a weak man results in a miserable unhappy relationship for both.

An unscripted man needs an unscripted woman.

Solid

__________________________________________

I have a strange way of thinking about these things, but often times I wonder

What would society look like if the roles were reversed?

That is to say, what if the majority of society did not get married? Would you still consider marriage as a part of spending your life together with the one you love? If all of the movies, tv shows, "the script," dictated that it is not the societal norm to go down the marriage route, would you still consider marriage as a logical, viable path?

I'd like to stray away from discussions about divorce, and the negatives that surround splitting. We all know it sucks. People lose money. Assets split. Yada-Yada.

 

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[G-Man]

I would argue that marriage does the opposite. Monogamy in nature is an extremely rare occurance - biologically, the best way to ensure the survival of a species is to reproduce. Monogamy minimizes that possibility. (I would like to not derail this discussion into monogamy into polygamy as it is not the purpose of the thread)

A primate driving a metal box at 70 mph powered by internal combustion is also a rare occurrence in nature. Perhaps instead of "species" I should have said "civilization". It's odd to me that nobody wants to live like a monkey until sex is involved

 

[TreyAllDay]

Depends - the idea that you should put yourself into debt at the tune of $30k for a fancy wedding + $7500 on a ring when you earn a modest salary is definitely playing right into the script.

 

[CPisHere]

Yes, I suppose. Although I'm not sure that has anything to do with actually being married?

I think the entire point that I was trying to make is that if your decisions are being influenced by external expectations, whether those expectations are coming from society or from anti-society (not sure how else to phrase that), then you're making your decisions for the wrong reasons. Simple.

It's impossible to not have your expectations shaped by what is around you.

 

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[DayIFly]

Hm, interesting. If I want to look for "The Script," I normally tend to analyze the mainstream and what is being heavily pushed in the media. And what I see is exactly the deconstruction of the concept of marriage. I think that there is an attempt to develop a new script.

I like to look at things from a pragmatic standpoint, which tends to be more on the side of evolutionary social psychology. I think that the concept of marriage is one of the things that made civilization possible. I don't remember where I read it, but if one examines the DNA then one can conclude that some number well above 50% or so of all males from recent history lost the evolutionary battle and didn't propagate their genes. There was an article that stated that supposedly 8000 years ago, 17 women reproduced for every one man. I.e. the survival of the fittest, or maybe the 80-20 principle in full action. Which means that genetically gifted men had a lot of women and women tried to get the best, hence hypergamy.

To fight this natural tendency, which had merit in barbaric times, the concept of marriage minimized the tendency of hypergamy, which was of benefit to both, men and women. The majority of men could now start a family and women had security because there was officially and legally only one woman for a man (and vice versa) as the cultural standard. Deviating from this was frowned upon. As a whole the outcome was a large, strong and highly organized community which was totally secured against other similar communities and also superior (numerically, materially) to less organized and/or barbaric ones. In my opinion, those groups that cease to function in this way will get displaced in the long run.

 

[SquatchMan]

I won't even elaborate on my cousin who sold his investment property to spend 70k on a wedding.

I'm sure there is some scientific study on this, but I'm going to guess the more money you spend on a wedding; the more likely your marriage will end in divorce.

 

[WJK]

I've been pondering this question for a while now, and recently had a conversation with a group of friends.

Is Marriage Part of the Script?

​

Most of the people in my group are millennials, with a mix of entrepreneurs as well as slow laners. We had a very interesting conversation on our views about being married and the whole marriage system.

All of us have grown up in a society where ever since we were born, marriage is a goal. The origins and history of marriage make sense and worked in a different time period, but in modern society, I do not a concrete purpose for marriage unless it is for religious or tax purposes.

I've always been of the opinion that I do not need a piece of paper to dictate how committed I am to a person. People argue that it "makes it harder to separate, therefore you are more prone to work things out." Yet, we live in a society whose divorce rates are higher than any other period in time.

With that said, I'm very curious as to how the people in the fastlane view marriage being part of the script of society?

*Disclaimer: I am not out to attack people's beliefs, religion, or personal situations with this post - I'm hoping to build perspective outside of my own world views

Edit:
There is this thread:
NOTABLE! - Preserving Wealth, My #1 Tip. Don't Get Married! (Or Maybe You Should?)

Mods - if this is a redundant question/thread, I apologize and you please close.

I read this entire thread and it's interesting.

When I was young, just about all of us women got married right out of high school. We got our engagement rings while we were still in high school. Women couldn't buy a house (couldn't get a loan -- it wasn't allowed) or have a credit file. A couple years later, the Fair Credit Act became law and all of that changed. It was also at the beginning of the birth control pill being widely available. Before that, women couldn't control their reproductive issues.

I openly lived with my childhood sweetheart in a small town for a while. I was right out of high school. It was huge deal for me since I was the girl in all of that. We got married due to social pressures. We were only married for a few years... I wanted more and he just wanted a little bit more than his parent had...

I've seen all sides in the issue of marriage. I married my current husband when I was 50 years old. He's my best friend and we've built a good life together. I looked for different stuff this time. We have similar views on the world. Now, both set of our kids are grown and gone. We just like to hang out together. We have good days and bad days. But, our commitment to our marriage and each other is there.

He says if anything happens to me, he'll follow me quickly. I believe that. He's wrapped his world around me and our life together. When I take a little trip, he gets so lonely. He says that our dogs don't talk to him enough while I'm gone.

I guess I'm telling you that by not creating those human bonds, you are really missing out on one of the most important life experiences. You'll never know what is to love and be really loved!

 

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[TKDTyler]

I read this entire thread and it's interesting.

When I was young, just about all of us women got married right out of high school. We got our engagement rings while we were still in high school. Women couldn't buy a house (couldn't get a loan -- it wasn't allowed) or have a credit file. A couple years later, the Fair Credit Act became law and all of that changed. It was also at the beginning of the birth control pill being widely available. Before that, women couldn't control their reproductive issues.

I openly lived with my childhood sweetheart in a small town for a while. I was right out of high school. It was huge deal for me since I was the girl in all of that. We got married due to social pressures. We were only married for a few years... I wanted more and he just wanted a little bit more than his parent had...

I've seen all sides in the issue of marriage. I married my current husband when I was 50 years old. He's my best friend and we've built a good life together. I looked for different stuff this time. We have similar views on the world. Now, both set of our kids are grown and gone. We just like to hang out together. We have good days and bad days. But, our commitment to our marriage and each other is there.

He says if anything happens to me, he'll follow me quickly. I believe that. He's wrapped his world around me and our life together. When I take a little trip, he gets so lonely. He says that our dogs don't talk to him enough while I'm gone.

I guess I'm telling you that by not creating those human bonds, you are really missing out on one of the most important life experiences. You'll never know what is to love and be really loved!

Things change so fast just in 1 lifetime! Thanks for the perspective.

I'm not saying that I do not want to have those human bonds - I question the necessity of "marriage" in order to have the same value of relationship.

Personally, I believe I can have the same, if not stronger bond than any given marriage without actually being in a marriage. I believe I can have a beautiful family without it.

Whether my S.O. wants one or not is another story.

I also believe relationships are complete acts of selflessness, where both sides sacrifice to make eachother happy. That is extended even further when a child is involved. Would I want to have my child grow with them having to understand and question why we aren't married? Is that selfish? I don't know the answer to any of those yet, as I am not even close to that crossroad in my life.

Interesting perspectives nevertheless.

 

[rollerskates]

Honestly I think to say you (OP) want a live in and children without marriage itself is very common and scripted. It's far more unscripted to get married these days or to live without cycling through an endless series of casual relationships.

Get married or don't but don't pretend that you are living like a rebel if you're copying all the other millennials.

 

[rollerskates]

You guys may think marriage is a script but if you dig for the truth in the roots of feminism you will find that it's original goal was to destroy marriages and "liberate" woman from men. Its result has been many unhappy and unfulfilled women and men.

I'm often surprised by how many feminists can't get by without a steady diet of men--the very thing they say they want to be liberated from.

 

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[Patrickg]

BIGTIME Rep+. I wish I hadn’t given so much away so I could give you 500 for that.

Liked and rep sent as well.

It's a great topic, however I have long wondered why people think that "modern" society is so different. And "millianals" think we are special. I'm include in this unfortantly because I'm 29.

Humans don't change because we have better technology. marriage is an amazing thing and it works.

If your not into being married don't. That's is being unscripted . However questioning marriage because we think society has changed is wrong. The older I get the more I realize certain truths hold true no matter what.

 

[TKDTyler]

It's a great topic, however I have long wondered why people think that "modern" society is so different. And "millianals" think we are special. I'm include in this unfortantly because I'm 29.

I really believe it is a byproduct of being in a hyperconnected world. We have so much information available at our fingertips, we understand what else is out there. We are connected day in and day out. Our generation consistently sees what other people are doing, what is going on in the world, events (not process).

If there was a study, I bet our generation has the highest rate of comparing ourselves to others. I think there was a study that showed depression in our generation is higher because of it.

Because we see so much, there is a desire to stand out from the rest. It's not that we think we think we are special, I think it's more along the lines of we want to be special. A sense of belonging through individualism. So we search for it, otherwise, who are we at the end of the day?

I would attribute it to the rise of gentrification in many places. Same reason why specialty product businesses are doing so well. Non-generic coffee/tea on the rise. A reversion to traditional practices like straight razor shaving. It's consumerism fueled by a strong longing for individualism in a group searching for their place because Mellenials are falling in the age group where most people are trying to find themselves.

Unfortunately, a lot of us think materialism is the route towards standing out when there are many other ways. Not getting married for the sake of being special would be a terrible decision though lol.

 

[Kak]

Honestly I think to say you (OP) want a live in and children without marriage itself is very common and scripted. It's far more unscripted to get married these days or to live without cycling through an endless series of casual relationships.

Get married or don't but don't pretend that you are living like a rebel if you're copying all the other millennials.

Lmao! Rep+

I read some of the shit peddled in this thread and it just reeks of selfishness and the intentional avoidance of anything that resembles responsibility.

I read somewhere that accepting responsibilities in life directly correlates to one’s level of happiness.

Get married or don’t... but don’t label married people scripted to make yourselves feel better.

 

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[rollerskates]

Get married or don’t... but don’t label married people scripted to make yourselves feel better.

Kind of reminds me of my teenage niece wanting a tattoo. Be a rebel! Like everyone else....

 

[TKDTyler]

Get married or don’t... but don’t label married people scripted to make yourselves feel better.

That wasn't my intention for this thread at all, I hope it didn't come off that way.

I'm really just trying to find my own answer. Right now I don't believe that mine is correct and needs some perspective - It is far too skewed.

 

[WJK]

Things change so fast just in 1 lifetime! Thanks for the perspective.

I'm not saying that I do not want to have those human bonds - I question the necessity of "marriage" in order to have the same value of relationship.

Personally, I believe I can have the same, if not stronger bond than any given marriage without actually being in a marriage. I believe I can have a beautiful family without it.

Whether my S.O. wants one or not is another story.

I also believe relationships are complete acts of selflessness, where both sides sacrifice to make eachother happy. That is extended even further when a child is involved. Would I want to have my child grow with them having to understand and question why we aren't married? Is that selfish? I don't know the answer to any of those yet, as I am not even close to that crossroad in my life.

Interesting perspectives nevertheless.

Being married is mega important to kids. Kids raised with a sense of security and two parents do a lot better -- than kids raised with one parent. They get in less trouble and have less emotional problems. They also have a much lower suicide rate, and do much better in school.

When I married my husband, he was in his late 40s and his kids were 7 and 9 years old. I was 50, like I said before. The two of us being married has been SO important to them. They are now 21 and 23.

It's still important to them. The boy is a Marine and being deployed. He was just home visiting us last week. The girl is PG with her first child. My husband and I are their "base shelter" in a stormy world. They always want to come visit when things get rough. We pet them, give them words of wisdom, and send them back out to try some more.

They always smile when they see us walking around together -- hold hands and having quiet conversations. Even though I'm "just" a step mother, they rely on the integrity of our relationship as a couple --it's the glue that holds everything together. I've been there most of their lives and they can't imagine it any other way.

I wish you the happiness and success...

 

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[SteveO]

We live in a culture where it is viewed as less to have a family and not be married

Only if you care what others think.

 

[TKDTyler]

Being married is mega important to kids. Kids raised with a sense of security and two parents do a lot better -- than kids raised with one parent. They get in less trouble and have less emotional problems. They also have a much lower suicide rate, and do much better in school.

When I married my husband, he was in his late 40s and his kids were 7 and 9 years old. I was 50, like I said before. The two of us being married has been SO important to them. They are now 21 and 23.

It's still important to them. The boy is a Marine and being deployed. He was just home visiting us last week. The girl is PG with her first child. My husband and I are their "base shelter" in a stormy world. They always want to come visit when things get rough. We pet them, give them words of wisdom, and send them back out to try some more.

They always smile when they see us walking around together -- hold hands and having quiet conversations. Even though I'm "just" a step mother, they rely on the integrity of our relationship as a couple --it's the glue that holds everything together. I've been there most of their lives and they can't imagine it any other way.

I wish you the happiness and success...

Thank you for this. You sound like you're both a terrific mother and partner. I come from a family with a strong marriage; same parents have been together for 25 years and raised both my brother and I. I couldn't have gotten to where I am without them.

Shout-out to a fellow Alaskan as well!

 

[CPisHere]

This is part of what I find myself questioning - Yes, it was a form to stabilize society, but as society progresses, marriage may or may not hold the same purpose. What I am trying to understand is the purpose of engaging in a marriage past the superficiality, business, and government ties. How does a marriage bring any additional value vs having a solid relationship without being married.

The government/business aspect actually has decreased the value of marriage (for men). Our Western idea of marriage for love is basically a Jedeo-Christian construct, and within that commitment it has tremendous value if both partners share it's vision.

Historically, there is an underlying script that narrates "Do not have kids if you are not married."

There is a specific word in the human language for a child born out of wedlock. I can see how marriage brings stability for the child and provides security in their youth though.

There's a good reason for Society to shun having children outside of marriage. Their life outcomes are much, much worse.

That is to say, what if the majority of society did not get married? Would you still consider marriage as a part of spending your life together with the one you love? If all of the movies, tv shows, "the script," dictated that it is not the societal norm to go down the marriage route, would you still consider marriage as a logical, viable path?

In many ways this is starting to happen. The results don't look promising. Sex dolls and anti-depressants can't replace stable, devoted relationships.

 

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[NuclearPuma]

I'd say you don't need a government paper to be commmitted to another person. The purpose of marriage was to go before the community, your spouse, and God and make a commitment to each of them to be selfless in support of one another. This gave you emotional support for the hard times and also motivated the couple to stay committed. You don't need a government paper for that.

 

[Guest92dX]

OP, the answer must come from within.

I really stand by my original premise that the conversation was about sex not marriage.

Find the answer for yourself to both questions you and your friends are asking. It's not a hard answer. It's a long answer.

If you can't find the answer just love yourself and open up to the wonder of it. I really do suggest that you go deep into yourself and find the poison that is giving you conflict.

The naysayers cite money and control. That is poison.

The supporters cite love and happiness. That too is poison.

Find the purity of your own centeredness. The path on either end of the ladder is shaky.

The relationship between a man and woman can be a symbiosis or parasitism, just like it can between two men or two women. Your foundation dictates the experience.

Walk slowly and with the deepest courage you can muster.

There is someone for everyone and everyone for no one.