How to get rid of this issue?

[_Aryan_]

I've been trying to execute an idea @Johnny boy suggested me on getting virtual assistant jobs and outsourcing them to others, so that I can get as many projects as possible and outsource them to VAs and earn well. But I've seen a problem on apps like Upwork, Freelancer, Indeed where I tried to get a VA job. And that is it's very very hard to get a project on you. Even if you spend all day applying for projects there is no hope for getting a project. What can you do to get a VA job on these platforms or from somewhere else.
Thanks!!

 

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[Johnny boy]

How many did you apply to? I'm talking about a full time or part time job and you probably won't find one in a single day. Might take a week or two or maybe more. But if you get one that you can outsource you can get another and another. And full disclaimer I've never actually done this, I run a home services business, it's just an idea that I had that I mentioned so I have no idea if it works, but I'm sure it could work if executed correctly.

 

[_Aryan_]

How many did you apply to? I'm talking about a full time or part time job and you probably won't find one in a single day. Might take a week or two or maybe more. But if you get one that you can outsource you can get another and another. And full disclaimer I've never actually done this, I run a home services business, it's just an idea that I had that I mentioned so I have no idea if it works, but I'm sure it could work if executed correctly.

If i count total i applied on upwork, freelancer and indeed then around 30 projects I applied to. But I'll keep trying Maybe get a few in a week. No doubt it's a brilliant idea if properly executed. Working on it.

 

[Kak]

Welcome to the world of high competition and low paying “laptop on a beach” work… The irony is that is is mostly preformed by people in tiny apartments, in third world countries, living off of less than $100 a month.

I’m convinced starting a real business is easier than freelancing or freelance arbitrage.

 

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[_Aryan_]

Welcome to the world of high competition and low paying “laptop on a beach” work… The irony is that is is mostly preformed by people in tiny apartments, in third world countries, living off of less than $100 a month.

I’m convinced starting a real business is easier than freelancing or freelance arbitrage.

Agree. Most of the people I saw on freelancer were from Pakistan, Kenya etc.

 

[Johnny boy]

Welcome to the world of high competition and low paying “laptop on a beach” work… The irony is that is is mostly preformed by people in tiny apartments, in third world countries, living off of less than $100 a month.

I’m convinced starting a real business is easier than freelancing or freelance arbitrage.

haha c'mon you don' think there's a lot of companies who you can capitalize off of because they are thinking they are hiring an american and you're playing the arbitrage?

 

[MTF]

Perhaps offer your services on Fiverr where you can do more to stand out than on Upwork?

 

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[Speed112]

haha c'mon you don' think there's a lot of companies who you can capitalize off of because they are thinking they are hiring an american and you're playing the arbitrage?

There's a story I read a long time ago who had an office job and he off-sourced everything to some guys in China. It took years for the employer to catch on, and then they fired him! WTF

If that was me I'd promote him to project manager and get him to handle off-sourcing to streamline the laborforce haha.

But yeah perceived value is the most important aspect of hiring. People can be really picky with who they hire but results are results. So if you're a tall white male with a great smile and good track record (as a superficial example), there totally is great opportunity for arbitrage.

That's what agencies are built off of. There are so many of them. I doubt the market is saturated enough to block entry. You just need some real value skew.

 

[Kak]

haha c'mon you don' think there's a lot of companies who you can capitalize off of because they are thinking they are hiring an american and you're playing the arbitrage?

I think someone could make some money off of it. Yes. Of course.

But if he’s bidding on jobs on the same platform he’s hiring less expensive work, that’s just screwing around.

Tons of American companies use offshore labor. The trick is to totally bury it within and present a cohesive and up to YOUR standards deliverable.

 

[Guest-5ty5s4]

There's a story I read a long time ago who had an office job and he off-sourced everything to some guys in China. It took years for the employer to catch on, and then they fired him! WTF

If that was me I'd promote him to project manager and get him to handle off-sourcing to streamline the laborforce haha.

But yeah perceived value is the most important aspect of hiring. People can be really picky with who they hire but results are results. So if you're a tall white male with a great smile and good track record (as a superficial example), there totally is great opportunity for arbitrage.

That's what agencies are built off of. There are so many of them. I doubt the market is saturated enough to block entry. You just need some real value skew.

They should have promoted him and had him do it for every other person he worked with, slowly firing off each of them to be replaced with the VA.

It sounds brutal and mean, but it would be more efficient for the company, and the employee replacement would still likely be 1:1. (A job for a job)

 

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[Lex DeVille]

I've been trying to execute an idea @Johnny boy suggested me on getting virtual assistant jobs and outsourcing them to others, so that I can get as many projects as possible and outsource them to VAs and earn well. But I've seen a problem on apps like Upwork, Freelancer, Indeed where I tried to get a VA job. And that is it's very very hard to get a project on you. Even if you spend all day applying for projects there is no hope for getting a project. What can you do to get a VA job on these platforms or from somewhere else.
Thanks!!

First, forget Freelancer. It's basically the worst freelance platform in existence.

Second, it is just as easy to earn clients on Upwork today as it always was. The problem isn't the number of proposals you've sent or the amount of time you spent sending proposals. The only problem is this:

You haven't figured out how to make yourself irresistibly valuable to clients yet.

Until you do, you won't get hired. There has to be some reason to give you a chance over everyone else. So you have to have a fully filled-out profile. You have to write customized proposals. You have to show that you paid attention to the job requirements. You have to not say the exact same things that every other freelancer says. And then, on top of all of that, you have to actually offer something of value to the client that makes you too good not to interview:

- Faster service
- First project free
- Sample job
- Specialize in a niche

TBH, everything you're probably doing wrong can be summed up in the Anthony Horowitz free course that @MTF recently shared. Specifically, the part about offers.

https://acquisition.com/offers-start

 

[Lex DeVille]

Welcome to the world of high competition and low paying “laptop on a beach” work… The irony is that is is mostly preformed by people in tiny apartments, in third world countries, living off of less than $100 a month.

I’m convinced starting a real business is easier than freelancing or freelance arbitrage.

When my dad came to me about businesses to start, one of my recommendations was NOT freelancing. I think the main problem is that people freelance to create/replace a job with something similar to a job. Freelancing is a worse trap than having a regular 9-5 job if you get sucked into it like that because if you approach it like a job it will eat up your time, you'll earn less than you would at a job, AND you won't have any of the benefits or stability of a job. Freelancing should only be used to create income to leverage in pursuit of your bigger Fastlane business goals.

 

[Edgar King]

I've been trying to execute an idea @Johnny boy suggested me on getting virtual assistant jobs and outsourcing them to others, so that I can get as many projects as possible and outsource them to VAs and earn well. But I've seen a problem on apps like Upwork, Freelancer, Indeed where I tried to get a VA job. And that is it's very very hard to get a project on you. Even if you spend all day applying for projects there is no hope for getting a project. What can you do to get a VA job on these platforms or from somewhere else.
Thanks!!

I think what Kak is trying to say is that the freelancing market can be commoditised. So the solution is to offer value based services.

Whearas everyone is solving for example, 10 problems, you should aim to solve 50 or more to be valued and hired by the clients.

You can send a hundred proposals and you still might not net you any jobs.

The quality of the proposal is the answer, NOT quantity. Which is to say the value you bring to the table.

If you ask me, Upwork proposals that get jobs and projects are ones that solve problems. Not fancy tricks and techniques, but real problems the client has.

Remember that if value < price, people won't buy.

One method I'd use is to (Based on a market you're targeting or on the proposal from Alex Hormozi)...

Define the dream outcome (With value upgrade)

E.G. I'll help you save time by handling your minute and repetitive tasks like...

1. Bookkeeping and payroll duties.

2. Receptionist and answering services.

3. Database building, entry and updates (sales, lead generation, contacts, CRM, etc.).

4. Perform banking needs, like paying bills and transferring funds.

5. Writing and sending client invoices.

(With Value upgrade- Here I chose Effort and sacrifice )

With a trial phase of 1 week at reduced cost. If you feel I'm not making the desired impact you're looking for, we'll cut the work relationship gracefully.

OR

With a reduced time delay where you communicate you'll get tasks done in half the time.

(If they then rave about your services, you then have an indicator about how much you can actually increase the price while still giving them a deal, plus the lower price gets them in the door for them to test you.)

Increase probability of success (In getting them to the dream outcome)

How many other people have you successfully "Assisted" in their business? Perhaps in yours even. Testimonials? Reviews? The higher the number of times you've "assisted" other business owners, the higher the perceived probability of success. If you haven't helped anyone with this before, you could help some local business owners and gain proof.

If you've helped 0 people and not even yourself get to that dream outcome, why should I trust you to do the same? I won't! You don't get a first time doctor to do your surgery do you?

Reduce time delay

Reduce effort and sacrifice

What are all the steps your clients will have to take to get to this dream outcome? Solve ALL of those problems in the proposal and of course when you are actually hired.

I see being a virtual assistant as 3 steps.

1) Client sends task to be done
2) VA receives and does task
3) Client receives results of task

The client needs too...

• Have an interview and introduction session with you
• Generate instructions for tasks for the VA to use (Training program)
• Do a short Test task
• VA receives and operates on task
• Client receives results
• Client sends next task
• VA does and sends back results of task

If you're a general VA, you can ask them about

1. Things they hate doing.
2. Things they can’t do yourself.
3. Things they shouldn’t be doing.

(If not on the proposal already) in the interview and explain how you'll take these tasks off their hand.

Once done, go through these steps, and ask yourself what are all the reasons for the client to not do them?

These are the problems.

For example, creating training program- One reason not do it, may be because it takes too long and too much effort on their part to make.

Then you have to solve ALL the problems of each step.

Ah, then could we take off the effort of crafting this training program? In that, during the interview and introduction session we ask them to talk about the tasks they do, and write them up in a google document for them. Ah, value. We then send these back to them to review and refine relevant details. Make sure to communicate the value in the proposal as well so they know what you bring to the table.

Of this same step, perhaps another problem is "I don't trust you can do that" (Probability of success), if so can we increase the perceived probability of success by showing them training programms we've done for other companies in our proposal in a link?

Perhaps a task we know they want us to do is,

Bookkeeping and payroll duties: calculate hours, add expenses, update salaries. What are all the reasons not to do that? Then solve them and communicate how you'll solve them to the client.

By doing these, you'll make your client say, "Wow, I get all of this for that?!" And they'd at least want to hire you.

Hope this quick guide helps. Of course, it might be best to just watch Alex Hormozi's videos on https://acquisition.com/offers-start so you know how all of this works together.

 

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[Andy Black]

I like freelancing. I think it’s like dipping your toe into entrepreneurship. You’re already familiar with exchanging hours for dollars.

The rude awakening is you only eat what you kill. If you don’t make sales you go hungry, or back to employment.

If you figure out sales you’ll slowly realise you’re creating a job for yourself. But there’s many proven paths to then detach your income from your time and then scale.

 

[Guest-5ty5s4]

Freelancing can go straight into a "Human Resource System" Fastlane Seedling.

Figure out your service, figure out sales, and then start training and hiring people to do what you do.

The trick is to not become one of those people who thinks "If I don't do it, it's not good enough."

Because they never grow.

 

[Andy Black]

I've been trying to execute an idea @Johnny boy suggested me on getting virtual assistant jobs and outsourcing them to others, so that I can get as many projects as possible and outsource them to VAs and earn well. But I've seen a problem on apps like Upwork, Freelancer, Indeed where I tried to get a VA job. And that is it's very very hard to get a project on you. Even if you spend all day applying for projects there is no hope for getting a project. What can you do to get a VA job on these platforms or from somewhere else.
Thanks!!

If it’s your first rodeo I’d pick some skill you already have that people would pay for, or get paid to get good at it. Figure out sales at the same time.

Once you’re competent and making sales then I’d consider scaling, maybe with people, or processes, or technology. Or developing other products/services you identified along the way because you’re close to the problem and the people who pay you to solve that problem.

Or you could go straight to picking some in demand skill and get good at selling it,
and ensuring projects are completed.

Either way I think you have to figure out how to get a steady stream of sales.

 

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[Andy Black]

Even if you spend all day applying for projects there is no hope for getting a project.

Reread this @_Aryan_.

Then Google for two things:

1. “Henry Ford’s quote”
2. “limiting beliefs”

 

[_Aryan_]

Reread this @_Aryan_.

Then Google for two things:

1. “Henry Ford’s quote”
2. “limiting beliefs”

That helped! Not limiting myself from now on.

 

[Andy Black]

If it’s your first rodeo I’d pick some skill you already have that people would pay for, or get paid to get good at it. Figure out sales at the same time.

Once you’re competent and making sales then I’d consider scaling, maybe with people, or processes, or technology. Or developing other products/services you identified along the way because you’re close to the problem and the people who pay you to solve that problem.

Or you could go straight to picking some in demand skill and get good at selling it,
and ensuring projects are completed.

Either way I think you have to figure out how to get a steady stream of sales.

Ah. I just reread the opening two posts. I thought this was about freelancing. My bad.

 

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[Johnny boy]

I think someone could make some money off of it. Yes. Of course.

But if he’s bidding on jobs on the same platform he’s hiring less expensive work, that’s just screwing around.

Tons of American companies use offshore labor. The trick is to totally bury it within and present a cohesive and up to YOUR standards deliverable.

Of course I meant getting a full time position from indeed or something that’s offering a full time salary and finding some cheap VA

Just an idea I think the “I’m going to make a job listing site” is bad considering it’s already a solved problem

 

[BizyDad]

Of course I meant getting a full time position from indeed or something that’s offering a full time salary and finding some cheap VA

Just an idea I think the “I’m going to make a job listing site” is bad considering it’s already a solved problem

I think recommending someone commit fraud is a pretty bad idea too.

It's one thing to own a company, get freelancing gigs and outsource the work. That's business.

It is something else entirely to accept an employee position where work product and an expectation of privacy is involved, then outsource your job. I'm pretty sure this breaks at least 3 different kinds of laws.

For starters, the employee has no legal standing to enter into an agreement with the outsourcer on behalf of the employer in the first place. If the employer wanted an overseas worker, they would've outsourced the work. They clearly did not, and the employee took it upon himself/herself to engage in "employment arbitrage", where he/she represented someone else's work are his/her own.

That person is a fraud.

People here think they should be promoted? How can you trust a person like this?

There are so many opportunities to make money "the right way", but this ain't one of them.

 

[Speed112]

I think recommending someone commit fraud is a pretty bad idea too.

It's one thing to own a company, get freelancing gigs and outsource the work. That's business.

It is something else entirely to accept an employee position where work product and an expectation of privacy is involved, then outsource your job. I'm pretty sure this breaks at least 3 different kinds of laws.

For starters, the employee has no legal standing to enter into an agreement with the outsourcer on behalf of the employer in the first place. If the employer wanted an overseas worker, they would've outsourced the work. They clearly did not, and the employee took it upon himself/herself to engage in "employment arbitrage", where he/she represented someone else's work are his/her own.

That person is a fraud.

People here think they should be promoted? How can you trust a person like this?

There are so many opportunities to make money "the right way", but this ain't one of them.

Right. The issue here is the breach of trust and going beyond the expected agreement, jeopardizing company data and privacy, etc.

But it depends on how things are done. If there was a mutually beneficial relationship for years and the work didn't involve sensitive information, then I can see things working out.

Most employment arrangements don't leave room for intrapreneurial activities like delegating work and optimizing these things, or doing anything outside your job description usually. That's a problem. And I wouldn't want to discourage that initiative and aptitude, instead, I would try to create an environment where the person has the freedom to bring up such opportunities and work together to implement them transparently without unintended risks.

Trust is won or lost, and people have different criteria for what it takes to earn it. I prefer to see beyond the superficial and be charitable with those I interact with, because people are more often than not well-meaning, and always self-interested.

Someone going behind your back with something sucks, but maybe they do it because it's worse for them to be transparent about it.

 

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[Guest-5ty5s4]

I think recommending someone commit fraud is a pretty bad idea too.

It's one thing to own a company, get freelancing gigs and outsource the work. That's business.

It is something else entirely to accept an employee position where work product and an expectation of privacy is involved, then outsource your job. I'm pretty sure this breaks at least 3 different kinds of laws.

For starters, the employee has no legal standing to enter into an agreement with the outsourcer on behalf of the employer in the first place. If the employer wanted an overseas worker, they would've outsourced the work. They clearly did not, and the employee took it upon himself/herself to engage in "employment arbitrage", where he/she represented someone else's work are his/her own.

That person is a fraud.

People here think they should be promoted? How can you trust a person like this?

There are so many opportunities to make money "the right way", but this ain't one of them.

I was saying this within the context of the employer THEN agreeing to the new plan.

Not suggesting breaking the law...

Just a little nuance

 

[BizyDad]

I was saying this within the context of the employer THEN agreeing to the new plan.

Not suggesting breaking the law...

Nuance

Fair enough.

I felt some of that nuance might have been lost on the OP however. This wasn't just a hypothetical, there is an actual person being advised and no one was pointing out the flaw in the advice.

I mean, even if the OP was straight up about it, imagine that. "Yes, I'd like to take this job, thank you for my high salary, now let me convince you why other people should do my work for me."

It would take a pretty special employer to jump on that pitch.