How not to cold message

[Andy Black]

I've been getting quite a lot of messages like the one in the screenshot below. It's a reason I stopped participating in Facebook groups.

There must be a flavour-of-the-month course showing people how to do outbound via Facebook messenger (I'm sure this is applied to LinkedIn and other platforms too.)

I respect the hustle but try to politely cut them off at the pass so we don't waste each others time.

Before my first reply I checked his Facebook profile and saw he's an Outbound specialist (as suspected).

In this case, a big red flag is asking me if it's ok to ask me a question. Just ask it for heaven's sake!

Maybe if his second question was "Are you able to take on any more clients?" he'd have kept the conversation going longer.

Even better... what if he actually had a lead of a local business in need of Google Ads help and approached me with "A blacksmith in Dublin is looking for help with Google Ads. Do you know anyone who can help them?"

Curious if you're getting these and how you’d improve on it.

 

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[Black_Dragon43]

I've been getting quite a lot of messages like the one in the screenshot below. It's a reason I stopped participating in Facebook groups.

There must be a flavour-of-the-month course showing people to do outbound via Facebook messenger (I'm sure this can be applied to LinkedIn and other platforms too.)

It's not a bad strategy and I respect the hustle. I do try to politely cut them off at the pass so we don't waste each others time.

Before my first reply I checked his Facebook profile and saw he's an Outbound specialist (as suspected).

In this case, a big red flag is asking me if it's ok to ask me a question. Just ask it for heaven's sake!

Maybe if his second question was "Are you able to take on any more clients?" he'd have kept the conversation going longer.

Even better... what if he actually had a lead of a local business in need of Google Ads help and asked "A blacksmith in Dublin is looking for help with a Google Ads campaign. Do you know anyone who can help them?"

Curious if you're getting these or if you reach out to people like this.

View attachment 43695

Outbound is about volume. He is a bit slow, what tends to work is making a clear offer, and seeing who bites. Don’t waste time with people who don’t have interest.

By your answers Andy, it sounds like you’re comfortable with the level of clients you have. Sure, more would be better, but it’s not really a burning pain. Am I wrong?

 

[Andy Black]

Don’t waste time

This is key. Don’t waste your own time, or other people’s time.

“Can I ask you a question?” just winds me up.

 

[Itizn]

In this case, a big red flag is asking me if it's ok to ask me a question. Just ask it for heaven's sake!

The outbound community loves "permission based openers".

As someone who purely relies on outbound, I also find it absurd.

 

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[Miketing]

I've seen some outreach gooroos recommend this approach but I'm not a fan. Feels like a bait and switch. Wastes time for the sender also. You end up getting a bunch of replies from "prospects" but many are not actually open to these kinds of services. Also starts the relationship off on a disingenuous note.

What you said about being more upfront and specific is what I've found works best. If you're going to start with a simple "yes" question like that, you need to jump straight into the value proposition.

A successful cold email campaign I ran started out with something like "are you looking to take on more {niche} partners right now?" but then within that same email, I made it clear how exactly I could help them.

For messenger-based outreach like FB or LinkedIn, it needs to be a bit more conversational of course. Some people recommend having a bit of a convo or building rapport first, but busy business owners often don't have time for that.

Pitching in the very first message, on the other hand, would probably just be seen as spam by most. So there's a balance to be had and it's just a matter of finding it. Seems like this guy is still figuring that out.

 

[Black_Dragon43]

Pitching in the very first message, on the other hand, would probably just be seen as spam by most.

It will always be seen as spam by those who don’t have a burning problem. I mean put yourself in their shoes… you’re getting a request about something you have no interest or little interest in, of course you’ll perceive it as an annoyance.

But if, on the other hand, that same message reaches someone who DOES have a problem that is high up in his mind, then there is a high likelihood that they will not perceive it as spam.

Generally, for outbound, PROBLEM questions are better conversation openers than pitches, because most people aren’t even aware they have a problem and you’ve got to bring it into awareness and get interest before they’d care about your pitch.

 

[Miketing]

It will always be seen as spam by those who don’t have a burning problem. I mean put yourself in their shoes… you’re getting a request about something you have no interest or little interest in, of course you’ll perceive it as an annoyance.

But if, on the other hand, that same message reaches someone who DOES have a problem that is high up in his mind, then there is a high likelihood that they will not perceive it as spam.

Generally, for outbound, PROBLEM questions are better conversation openers than pitches, because most people aren’t even aware they have a problem and you’ve got to bring it into awareness and get interest before they’d care about your pitch.

Exactly, gotta keep that awareness level in mind. Not very likely they'll be ready for a direct offer in the first message, otherwise they'd probably already be out there searching for it. You can sometimes catch someone in that window, but most of the market won't be there. The only exception is if they've already bought the same type of service/product, in which case you'd need to have a very strong USP/competitive advantage.

It seems the guy reaching out to Andy here failed at highlighting that problem. It's clear that Andy doesn't have a problem here, but I'm sure some of that guy's other prospects do.

 

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[saint_kilda]

Sorry but I don't get what the outbound specialist was trying to achieve - to get you as a client or something? Still new to this so please excuse if it's a dumb question.

 

[Andy Black]

Sorry but I don't get what the outbound specialist was trying to achieve - to get you as a client or something? Still new to this so please excuse if it's a dumb question.

Yes. He was going to ask if I had capacity for more clients, or what my world would look like if I had a steady stream of high-ticket clients (I hate that term btw).

If I said “Yes” again he was likely going to ask if it sounded like a good idea if we had a chat to see if we’re a good fit (he’s going to ask questions I’ll say Yes to).

Once on a call he’s probably going to try to get me to say Yes to his outbound service where he’ll get me prequalified prospects for my services.

 

[Miketing]

Yes. He was going to ask if I had capacity for more clients, or what my world would look like if I had a steady stream of high-ticket clients (I hate that term btw).

If I said “Yes” again he was likely going to ask if it sounded like a good idea if we had a chat to see if we’re a good fit (he’s going to ask questions I’ll say Yes to).

Once on a call he’s probably going to try to get me to say Yes to his outbound service where he’ll get me prequalified prospects for my services.

Something tells me you might've had one or two of these guys reach out to you before

 

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[Andy Black]

Something tells me you might've had one or two of these guys reach out to you before

A few over the years. A spate of them recently.

I was wondering if other folks were getting tired of it too.

 

[Andy Black]

That'll be a block then...

 

[MJ DeMarco]

If your first contact with me is a lie, or a deceptive marketing "tactic" it's an immediate delete and ignore.

It's like some of the marketing fools that join here to recommend some product, and then one look at their email address indicates they work for the company.

I recommend XYZ! It really has worked for me and helped me succeed.
ORLY? You mean your job as a marketing backlinker for said company?

 

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[Antifragile]

If your first contact with me is a lie, or a deceptive marketing "tactic" it's an immediate delete and ignore.

It's like some of the marketing fools that join here to recommend some product, and then one look at their email address indicates they work for the company.

I recommend XYZ! It really has worked for me and helped me succeed.
ORLY? You mean your job as a marketing backlinker for said company?

@Andy Black i get a lot of it on LinkedIn. It’s stupid really, and like MJ above, I just ignore. It takes 5 messages for me to start feeling some guilt and respond with “I’m not interested”.

The worst part, I think these people in LinkedIn need a premium paid account to actually send me a message! So much $$ wasted.

 

[Paul David]

I’ve been on the receiving end of exactly the same messages as Andy shown above.

Soon as someone reaches out like that I don’t even reply.

I also agree with Black Dragon in that it’s difficult to come up with something that doesn’t sound like spam if it’s not a problem for that person. Hence why problem questions work better.

So he’s also right in that you need to lead with a problem question initially.

 

[Andy Black]

If your first contact with me is a lie, or a deceptive marketing "tactic" it's an immediate delete and ignore.

As a mod I hum a wee rhyme to myself when I'm going through forum alerts:

"First post spam? Delete and ban."

 

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[Paul David]

If you're in the process of launching a business or a relatively new startup, asking for advice can work well in cold outreach messages via email, messenger etc.

When I first started I assumed it be a lot easier than it is, and a lot of the time it's not just the content of the message that's the issue with cold outreach, it's the fact that these people are getting hit up everyday with messages.

I offer a free trial so I thought that's an easy way in. So what, turns out lots of other people are offering them free trials.

However most people are open to help if they see you’re not trying to sell them something. When you try to sell, they can feel it from a mile away. When you're forcing something on someone as Josh Cohen says "they can smell your commission breath".

When I changed my messages to give all the power back to the person I was messaging they were much more willing to respond. Even if they didn't like the product they'd even give you feedback why or advice on what can be done to improve it.

Another Josh Cohen quote: "Remember you're for some, but not for everyone"

Obviously if you're already at a stage where you've got lots of customers this may not be the way to go.

 

[Black_Dragon43]

If you're in the process of launching a business or a relatively new startup, asking for advice can work well in cold outreach messages via email, messenger etc.

When I first started I assumed it be a lot easier than it is, and a lot of the time it's not just the content of the message that's the issue with cold outreach, it's the fact that these people are getting hit up everyday with messages.

I offer a free trial so I thought that's an easy way in. So what, turns out lots of other people are offering them free trials.

However most people are open to help if they see you’re not trying to sell them something. When you try to sell, they can feel it from a mile away. When you're forcing something on someone as Josh Cohen says "they can smell your commission breath".

When I changed my messages to give all the power back to the person I was messaging they were much more willing to respond. Even if they didn't like the product they'd even give you feedback why or advice on what can be done to improve it.

Another Josh Cohen quote: "Remember you're for some, but not for everyone"

Obviously if you're already at a stage where you've got lots of customers this may not be the way to go.

This way is good, but I don't like it. It often wastes your time, just "chatting" with people, and who often has time to chat? Losers. Real winners most often don't have time to chat with you and give you advice. I want to get on the phone just with people who have some interest already, figure out if it can help them, answer their questions, and facilitate buying. I don't wanna get on the phone with some mid 40s, 50s wife of some gigachad millionaire who has time in her day to waste so she can tell me what she thinks about my product or what she'd do differently.

Imo, you should never take advice from people who aren't paying. If they want to have a say in the product and how it develops, that's fine, but pay up first.

 

[Paul David]

This way is good, but I don't like it. It often wastes your time, just "chatting" with people, and who often has time to chat? Losers. Real winners most often don't have time to chat with you and give you advice. I want to get on the phone just with people who have some interest already, figure out if it can help them, answer their questions, and facilitate buying. I don't wanna get on the phone with some mid 40s, 50s wife of some gigachad millionaire who has time in her day to waste so she can tell me what she thinks about my product or what she'd do differently.

Imo, you should never take advice from people who aren't paying. If they want to have a say in the product and how it develops, that's fine, but pay up first.

Absolutely correct and you can end up down that rabbit hole if you're not careful. If you ask for their advice by taking up their time with a call, you get a lot of pushback.

Ask a simple question, something they can quickly answer with a yes or no.

What I find works better and saves time is to ask their advice on whether they'd be interested or not straight from the off.

However that depends if you're really looking for advice or not. If you're still not sure what to include in the product it's worth having these conversations to develop product market fit. If you already have this and are using this to get your foot in the door then you're not really interested in their advice, so the conversation can be done a little quicker.

ie this is what I'm making and why, I'd like your advice to see if it's something you'd be interested in, please be honest and let me know if the idea is terrible.

Quite easy to get a yes or no, but the difference is that it doesn't feel like a pushy sales spammy message.

 

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[Andy Black]

I reckon people would do better starting their message with “Thanks for …”

1) Saying Thanks is a good way to start an interaction anyway.

2) It forces you to find something to thank them for.

Maybe they posted something helpful in a Facebook group, or to their profile?

Maybe they replied to your post in a Facebook group, or to your profile?

Heck, I’ve done this over 3,000 times in this forum. Someone follows me (or gave me rep when the forum had it) and I send a wee PM with a subject line of “Thanks for following” and contents of “How’re things going? Andy”

Because it’s not completely cold they’re often amazed I reached out.


So yeah, reach out to people and thank them for something and see how different that goes.

Again, don’t do it as a “tactic” to sell something. Do it to make friends, build relationships, and create win-wins.

 

[Black_Dragon43]

ie this is what I'm making and why, I'd like your advice to see if it's something you'd be interested in, please be honest and let me know if the idea is terrible.

Quite easy to get a yes or no, but the difference is that it doesn't feel like a pushy sales spammy message.

That is true, but neither are the answers very high quality usually.

Let's take an example: "I'm making an email automation tool that sends cold outreach campaigns for you using an AI-driven algorithm to locate the leads for you automatically in order to save online business owners time. I'd like your advice to see if it's something you'd be interested in, please be honest and let me know if the idea is terrible"

And you get an answer like "Yes". That means nothing to me, it looks like someone couldn't be bothered to give it any thought, and doesn't really care. Just said what popped up in his mind first. And if you then ask a more detailed question that does require some thought, they will stop answering.

I prefer to just go straight up : "Yo John, here's what we do for people, is that a problem you're currently interested to solve?"

If John has the problem, he will respond, and be interested. If he doesn't, he won't respond most likely. That doesn't really matter to me, as the goal of cold outreach is to sift through a bunch of people and find those who show some interest that you will pursue further. You have to sift through lesser numbers of people the better your targeting is.

I reckon people would do better starting their message with “Thanks for …”

1) Saying Thanks is a good way to start an interaction anyway.

2) It forces you to find something to thank them for.

Maybe they posted something helpful in a Facebook group, or to their profile?

Maybe they replied to your post in a Facebook group, or to your profile?

Heck, I’ve done this over 3,000 times in this forum. Someone follows me (or gave me rep when the forum had it) and I send a wee PM with a subject line of “Thanks for following” and contents of “How’re things going? Andy”

Because it’s not completely cold they’re often amazed I reached out.

When I get this, I often get very annoyed. Because I know why they are REALLY reaching out to me - which usually is to make a sale.

But not always. When they're not going for a sale, it may work. For example: "Really loved you content here: XYZ. Given your expertise, I thought you'd be a good fit to review my new course/book. Would you be open to giving it a look and letting me know what you think?"

 

[MTF]

Hey Andy I have a quick biz question for you if you don't mind.

 

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[Paul David]

And you get an answer like "Yes". That means nothing to me, it looks like someone couldn't be bothered to give it any thought, and doesn't really care. Just said what popped up in his mind first. And if you then ask a more detailed question that does require some thought, they will stop answering.

I prefer to just go straight up : "Yo John, here's what we do for people, is that a problem you're currently interested to solve?"

If John has the problem, he will respond, and be interested. If he doesn't, he won't respond most likely. That doesn't really matter to me, as the goal of cold outreach is to sift through a bunch of people and find those who show some interest that you will pursue further. You have to sift through lesser numbers of people the better your targeting is.

Yes I get that. The advice route can take more work on the back end to try and get them to the point of trying your product.

Here's what I'm currently trying which is similar to your idea.

Hey John,

Noticed on Google that 5 Star Cleaning Services has just 2 five star reviews.

Do you have any problem getting reviews?

This is how 5 Star Cleaning Services could look, after using LeadTalker to collect reviews from your customers.

Open for more info?

 

[Paul David]

When I get this, I often get very annoyed. Because I know why they are REALLY reaching out to me - which usually is to make a sale.

Yes I agree, I think no matter what you way approach the conversation (if you're really after them to try something or sell them) then they'll smell it.

Mind if I ask a quick question? - Curiosity means they'll often say yes, but the barrier has come up because they think they know whats coming they just need confirmation.

I see we're in the same group - yes and yet I never reach out to anyone in the group saying this to them, is this person in the same industry, nope checked his profile and he's a marketing agency. Blocked.

How's things going? - Why is this random person I don't know asking me how things are going? What does he want?

Heck I even offered someone to pay whatever they thought was fair the other day if they tried my app for free and they thought it was a waste of their time. They responded and said I sounded desperate!

 

[Andy Black]

When I get this, I often get very annoyed. Because I know why they are REALLY reaching out to me - which usually is to make a sale.

But not always.

Reach out to say hello and build a relationship if there's one to build. I PM people, reply to people, hop on calls with people and don't care one way or another about making a sale. I'm just genuinely happy to interact with people and help out if I can. It's fun, and seems to generate referrals.

When they're not going for a sale, it may work. For example: "Really loved you content here: XYZ. Given your expertise, I thought you'd be a good fit to review my new course/book. Would you be open to giving it a look and letting me know what you think?

Hmmm. I'd not send a message like that. I'd be more along the lines of "Loved that you're giving away websites for free! All those haters in that LinkedIn post are missing the point. Good for you!"


EDIT: Why get really annoyed at a message? I get annoyed when it’s a spam phone call or SMS, but not an inbound Facebook or LinkedIn message.

 

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[Paul David]

Reach out to say hello and build a relationship if there's one to build. I PM people, reply to people, hop on calls with people and don't care one way or another about making a sale. I'm just genuinely happy to interact with people and help out if I can. It's fun, and seems to generate referrals.



Hmmm. I'd not send a message like that. I'd be more along the lines of "Loved that you're giving away websites for free! All those haters in that LinkedIn post are missing the point. Good for you!"

I understand this approach but it can take way too long to build a business like this especially if its at a low price point.

I recently spoke to the founder of Intercom, Des Traynor and and this is what he told me.

Did you just ask people to try intercom for free? Or did you ask them for feedback on the idea first?

Yes, I literally just asked. I think we had some early feedback chats, but mostly we were building for our selves so didn't need the feedback.

A lot of cold outreach training these days suggests building a relationship first but that’s generally for solutions that you have to pay up front for.

I think if you're offering a very quick & simple service, you don't need the relationship.

I would encourage you to really work on your email (consider a visual, consider a video, consider a screenshot, try all these things, see what works). Do not automate it until you feel good about it.

 

[Andy Black]

I understand this approach but it can take way too long to build a business like this especially if its at a low price point.

Do not automate it until you feel good about it.

I think reaching out manually and "doing things that don't scale" is a good way to refine the offer, until you try to automate it or scale.

 

[Black_Dragon43]

Yes I get that. The advice route can take more work on the back end to try and get them to the point of trying your product.

Here's what I'm currently trying which is similar to your idea.

Hey John,

Noticed on Google that 5 Star Cleaning Services has just 2 five star reviews.

Do you have any problem getting reviews?

This is how 5 Star Cleaning Services could look, after using LeadTalker to collect reviews from your customers.

Open for more info?

I love this. Straight for the offer with some form of demonstration

Hmmm. I'd not send a message like that. I'd be more along the lines of "Loved that you're giving away websites for free! All those haters in that LinkedIn post are missing the point. Good for you!"

So how do you get what you want from them? It seems like a massive committment of time from both sides with very uncertain rewards.

EDIT: Why get really annoyed at a message? I get annoyed when it’s a spam phone call or SMS, but not an inbound Facebook or LinkedIn message.

In my case, because I want them to be straight to the point so I can know if it's something I care about or no.

I think if you're offering a very quick & simple service, you don't need the relationship.

You never need a relationship that's built on something other than value imo. As a salesperson, you're there to help people. If they don't want your help, or don't need your help, that's totally cool. What good is a relationship of friendship with a prospect? That seems disingenious tbh. You do need to cultivate a relationship of value though, but that’s different. A relationship of value CAN and often will translate into friendship, but that’s the natural result of trust that is built precisely by doing business together. So friendship comes AFTER the sale, not before.

I often come across people on FB and LinkedIn who are like “I feel that the reason you’re reaching out is because you want money from my bank account to move into yours”. In my honest and unpopular opinion, this is a symptom of the leftist ideology that is sweeping the Western world that is very much anti business and anti sales. To these people, trying to see if you can help someone with what you have, and therefore make money in the process is immoral. You should do things out of the goodness of your heart instead, and if you happen to be able to make money in the process, that’s good, but not a requirement.

Very strange for me…

Almost all these variations presuppose that sales is evil, and by trying to make a sale happen you’re engaging in an evil, manipulative act. Which imo is totally wrong. Just be straight up about what you’re doing. Yes, I’m trying to see if you have a problem I could help you solve and that you’d be interested to solve. That’s all.

There’s also another kind which is also a pet peeve of mine. Those who don’t respond to a message and get annoyed by follow up. They’re like “don’t you see I’m not answering you for 5 messages, why do you keep reaching out?” … well bro… let’s see, because I don’t make assumptions about other people and have no idea why you’re not responding. It may be because you haven’t had time to check your email, you were away on holiday, you kept putting replying off, or yes, even that you weren’t interested. But I can’t know that without any feedback from you.

I remember the marketers of old, the real big balls marketers… like Chet Holmes who with pig-headed determination would reach out to a prospect 100+ times to get an answer. The good old days heh…

 

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[Andy Black]

So how do you get what you want from them?

Huh? I didn’t want anything from him.

I saw a guy posting on LinkedIn that his agency had done 1,000 free websites, and loads of web developers were hating on him and bleating about how he was ruining the market for them blah blah.

I liked his post and rather than stir the pot I messaged him.

We ended up chatting back and forth, hopped on a call, and did a bit of work together to see if Google Ads might help his 1,000+ content marketing clients.

I wasn’t looking for that though… that just came out of the ensuing conversation and chat. I sent the message because I liked what he was doing and so he knew some people who read his post didn’t think he was using a stupid business model.

 

[TheKingOfMadrid]

I wasn’t looking for that though… that just came out of the ensuing conversation and chat. I sent the message because I liked what he was doing and so he knew some people who read his post didn’t think he was using a stupid business model.

A lot of the out-reach 'tactics' depress me today, it reminds me of 'pickup' and 'game'. I've had so much more success when you treat people like people, network well and make friends - rather than treat them as potential marks.

And almost no one does it this way anymore - It's a forgotten art, but those skills are severely lacking in the newest waves of internet marketing Gurus.