How do I tell him?

[ChrisJTurner]

Hey,
I have this friend who I really respect and have known him for quite a while now.

Problem is, he has been looking into property investment for a couple of months now(with little capital) and first it started off with books, which is fine but now he is going to seminars and paying personal mentors thousands for their info.
I don't know much about property investment but to me it doesn't sound look good idea to invest with no money, certainly paying someone thousands to be a mentor.
He is very passionate about It and I really don't want to destroy his dreams.
He keeps talking about that he his scoping out potential properties so he can "flip" them?
Also, I don't know much about the property investment world to understand if this is a legit way to do things.
Maybe someone on here can shed some light?

Also, he is doing MLM (he doesn't push on to me) and tries to speak with 100 people a day to make X amount of money and it's the best thing ever Yada yada yada...
He is making little money and living with parents.
I do know MLM is a complete waste of time; I talk from experience.
He doesn't listen to me when I tell him it's a waste of time.

Do I let him lose thousands and allow him to make the mistake or do I tell him?
Or is the property thing legit?

 

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[D11FYY]

Be a friend and only advise him that what you see him doing is irrational, even write him a letter so he can read it and sit with it rather than trying to counter/shut you down with every thing you say to him.

If hes wise he will learn but if hes already going to these seminars to get brain washed... It may already be too late.
Buy him MJ's book it will do him a few favours

 

[RazorCut]

Buy him MJ's book it will do him a few favours

Sound advice. Yes you can make money from flipping houses. Flipping refers to buying a house that generally needs mostly cosmetic work (nothing heavier than replacing the kitchen/bathroom) and then selling it for a quick profit. The premise is people have little vision so houses often don't sell because people can't see past something badly in need of decorating and with a junk yard for a garden.

Thing is if he has no money he won't be able to get a mortgage in the first place as the deposit will be out of his reach. Plus how is he paying for the mentoring?

Do you know the course(s) he has been taking? You can see how legit they are by checking out public opinions online.

 

[AndrewNC]

Hey,
he is going to seminars and paying personal mentors thousands for their info.
paying someone thousands to be a mentor.
Do I let him lose thousands and allow him to make the mistake or do I tell him?

Send him to my sales page....


Just kidding - Imagine if he told you to stop doing this Fastlane stuff...would you listen to him, or just shut him out? Think real deep what he could say to talk you out of the fastlane (a belief you hold just as strong as he holds his), and use that type of psychology on him if he is doing the wrong thing.

Could his mentors be worth the investment?

 

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[Mattie]

Think sometimes you have to know that if someone has a coach/MLM perhaps its their lesson to learn. And I agree just like Fastlane is a part of your philosophy even if someone told you it sucked, would you listen. I've told people many times not to do something, or pointed out why, years later they're still doing the same thing, and never took the advice or listened.

Maybe I"m just at that point now, I don't tell people anything, unless they come to me in the first place and ask. Otherwise really, it's just part of the process of them learning to make wise choices. I know people find my approach awful, but really if you have a friend, they don't want to hear the truth anyway. They want to hear what they want to hear. Otherwise, they'll try to justify their actions, and make up excuses why they're doing what they're doing. And I just went through this with a friend a week ago, and when we've been down this road hundred times with the same results.

The person does what they want to do, regardless of the pain and suffering, the losses, and sure, they complain about it all later. I just reminded my friend, you know what they consequences are. Why put your energy into someone else's issues? Really it's their lesson. And sure, we don't always agree. We see things differently, and what can you really do for your friend. He has to make his choices, and playing the rescuer, isn't going to help him. It just enables him.

 

[csalvato]

Ask Socratic questions and get answers. Learn how he thinks. If you ask the right questions he will logic it out himself. If you ask the right ones he may also convince you of the thing you are missing

 

[Esquire]

Why not hand him a copy of TMF and let him reach that conclusion himself ...?

Seems like the best approach to me.

Just tell him how great the book is ... how he would really love it ... and leave it at that.

He'll figure it out (hopefully) ...

 

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[smarty]

Buy him MJ's book it will do him a few favours

Best advice so far.

Send him to my sales page....

Second place
----------------------------

Anyways, if he doesn't see you as an authority figure on that topic, most probably he won't listen. But you may establish yourself as an authority figure by referring to personal experiences or some other "friends" experiences. That is not to say that you should lie, but you can deliver your message in a way that won't provoke a bad/negative reaction.

 

[Andy Black]

What would be the best threads in here to point him towards?

 

[Formless]

What would be the best threads in here to point him towards?

None, because they're confrontational in tone, and they will inevitably be seen as an attack on his character. And people will respond to attacks on character with knee-jerk defense, even if it is not rooted in logic.

Asking questions is a good approach. TMF might be too because it sells the slowlane and the sidewalk to you as 'the lie you've been sold for all your life'

Thus aligning itself with the person (Us) and turning the institutions/conventions into the enemy (Them.)

 

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[randomnumber314]

Ask Socratic questions and get answers. Learn how he thinks. If you ask the right questions he will logic it out himself. If you ask the right ones he may also convince you of the thing you are missing

This is very sound advice. Questions like "what do you mean," and "how do you know" will usually get people to defeat themselves very quickly. It helps people evaluate their bullshit.

inb4 someone asks me "what do you mean?"

 

[csalvato]

This is very sound advice. Questions like "what do you mean," and "how do you know" will usually get people to defeat themselves very quickly. It helps people evaluate their bullshit.

inb4 someone asks me "what do you mean?"

Just make sure to be sincere when asking.

Tone and emphasis can change those questions from "How do you know, tell me more." to "Well how do YOU know he's not just F*cking with you" very quickly.

 

[ChrisJTurner]

Some great answers here.
I really did not want to be confrontational about it. I`m pretty much a no BS guy but I can see his passion; and I guess because I have the upmost respect, its hard to disagree with his passion. Like many of you said, if he told me that what I was doing was wrong, i`d still do it anyway.

I`m not overly sure on who is mentoring him but I remember him talking big figures and this mentor might be worth it; but I smell a rat. I guess thats my gut feeling telling me. Doesnt look right at all.
He lives with his parents and works full time in phone sales (MLM on the side) so I`m guessing he is saving his FT money to pay for the mentor.

Ok, plan of action.
Will buy antother copy of TMF and tell him to read it!

 

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[SirTristram]

I know that TMFL got me booking out of the MLM I was doing back then. It's great that so many people are giving such sound advice.
Kudos to this awesome community!

 

[jon.a]

Some great answers here.
I really did not want to be confrontational about it. I`m pretty much a no BS guy but I can see his passion; and I guess because I have the upmost respect, its hard to disagree with his passion. Like many of you said, if he told me that what I was doing was wrong, i`d still do it anyway.

I`m not overly sure on who is mentoring him but I remember him talking big figures and this mentor might be worth it; but I smell a rat. I guess thats my gut feeling telling me. Doesnt look right at all.
He lives with his parents and works full time in phone sales (MLM on the side) so I`m guessing he is saving his FT money to pay for the mentor.

Ok, plan of action.
Will buy antother copy of TMF and tell him to read it!

Just send him here. Tell him there's a secret group of Entrepreneurs here.

 

[Deleted21961]

@ChrisJTurner: Sometimes people understand rational explanations perfectly and yet it doesn't work on them. To successfully drive a change in him, speak not only to his rational mind, but also to the emotional side (by showing him something real that will shock him, maybe something very bad about MLMs and something very nice about FL). And as getting into new mindset is really hard, try to lower the barrier to enter, preparing for him a very concrete set of examples, informations, links and so on, to keep required effort for him to minimum. Show him some small changes he can make, that will put him into motion to FL even when he still does what he does. Be creative.

 

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[Baku]

I also think that the only way to help him leave this toxic environment by talking with him is to bypass their system of beliefs. Don't tell him what is right and what is not, because he will be defended. Ask him questions that he see meaninglessness of actions, which he takes. He has to look at the whole situation from a broader perspective and understand some thing.

 

[Lex DeVille]

Hey,
I have this friend who I really respect and have known him for quite a while now.

Problem is, he has been looking into property investment for a couple of months now(with little capital) and first it started off with books, which is fine but now he is going to seminars and paying personal mentors thousands for their info.
I don't know much about property investment but to me it doesn't sound look good idea to invest with no money, certainly paying someone thousands to be a mentor.
He is very passionate about It and I really don't want to destroy his dreams.
He keeps talking about that he his scoping out potential properties so he can "flip" them?
Also, I don't know much about the property investment world to understand if this is a legit way to do things.
Maybe someone on here can shed some light?

Also, he is doing MLM (he doesn't push on to me) and tries to speak with 100 people a day to make X amount of money and it's the best thing ever Yada yada yada...
He is making little money and living with parents.
I do know MLM is a complete waste of time; I talk from experience.
He doesn't listen to me when I tell him it's a waste of time.

Do I let him lose thousands and allow him to make the mistake or do I tell him?
Or is the property thing legit?

Are you making money with something yet?

If so, can you bring it up in the same (or even a separate) conversation?

Sometimes when I'm around people and business comes up, they share some pretty crazy ideas.

Sometimes I share what I'm doing, like this:

"That's cool bro, it's awesome you're working on a path to freedom. I started freelancing a couple weeks ago and made a few thousand..."

If you do it with enthusiasm your energy spills over onto them. Just make sure you seem enthusiastic about business (both his and yours). Then if you mention how much you're making he'll read between the lines and come up with,

"He's doing X and making money fast! Why am I not making money fast? Why am I not doing X? I should ask about X..."

Suddenly we're in a conversation about X and the other thing is out of the picture. His desire is to make money fast, (that's how it seems to me) so use it to peak his interest and lead him in the direction you want him to go.

No need to tell him he's wrong. Agree that MLM works for some people some of the time. But there may be other, faster ways to make money.

Either way can work. Mention he should consider his other options too.

Plant the seed, and let him grow it himself.

 

[Pete799p]

As the saying goes there is no free lunch in business and this is the same in Real Estate. I believe that "No Money Down" is sort of a misnomer because somebody always has to bring money to the table it just might not be yours.

In my personal experience there are a few key components to real estate investing or any kind of investing; Cash, Labor/Work, Knowledge/experience.

In any transaction it is "usually" necessary to bring at least one of these to the table. If your friend desires to do "No Money Down" RE deals he will need to bring extensive knowledge or lots of work to the table...usually both. Conversely if you have lots of money you can pay others for their knowledge and expertise etc.

As the saying goes you can lead a horse to water but you cannot make them drink. I would try to send him to this forum or other similar sites/ blogs with relevant 3rd party info to help him. If he makes it here congrats you just led him to water now it will be up to him to drink. If he doesn't drink you tried, just enjoy the friendship, at the end of the day it's his time to invest how he see fit.

Example: He is trying to invest in apartments. When you find a relevant article or thread email it to him saying something like, Hey thought you would find this interesting.

Other thing you can do is for a birthday or other gift giving holiday buy him TMFL.

 

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[ChrisJTurner]

Are you making money with something yet?

If so, can you bring it up in the same (or even a separate) conversation?

.

Well, I`m in the process of starting a non-profit, so going all out to offer value then hopefully I`ll have something to monotise when I have a fantastic product ready. In terms of showing him a different path, I have just failures so far
My friend, he is uber intelligent and has read many books, so its strange that he has taken some kind of bait. Though, I have noticed its REALLY easy to sell him on ideas, so maybe he`s just a little naive.

As the saying goes there is no free lunch in business and this is the same in Real Estate. I believe that "No Money Down" is sort of a misnomer because somebody always has to bring money to the table it just might not be yours.

In my personal experience there are a few key components to real estate investing or any kind of investing; Cash, Labor/Work, Knowledge/experience.

In any transaction it is "usually" necessary to bring at least one of these to the table. If your friend desires to do "No Money Down" RE deals he will need to bring extensive knowledge or lots of work to the table...usually both. Conversely if you have lots of money you can pay others for their knowledge and expertise etc.

As the saying goes you can lead a horse to water but you cannot make them drink. I would try to send him to this forum or other similar sites/ blogs with relevant 3rd party info to help him. If he makes it here congrats you just led him to water now it will be up to him to drink. If he doesn't drink you tried, just enjoy the friendship, at the end of the day it's his time to invest how he see fit.
.

To be honest, I dont know anything about the property market, though, it didnt seem right that he could do things with property, without money down. He is only a yound lad; so is still a little green with experience; so in terms of value, it`d be hard to offer value.

I need to do something because I cant watch this happen without saying something.

Thanks for the advice!!!

 

[Andy Black]

This is what I meant by asking what would be the best threads to send him to in here.

What are his skills? What jobs has he done? Are there threads in here showing people using those skills and experiences differently and building something he might be interested in?

Are you making money with something yet?

If so, can you bring it up in the same (or even a separate) conversation?

Sometimes when I'm around people and business comes up, they share some pretty crazy ideas.

Sometimes I share what I'm doing, like this:

"That's cool bro, it's awesome you're working on a path to freedom. I started freelancing a couple weeks ago and made a few thousand..."

If you do it with enthusiasm your energy spills over onto them. Just make sure you seem enthusiastic about business (both his and yours). Then if you mention how much you're making he'll read between the lines and come up with,

"He's doing X and making money fast! Why am I not making money fast? Why am I not doing X? I should ask about X..."

Suddenly we're in a conversation about X and the other thing is out of the picture. His desire is to make money fast, (that's how it seems to me) so use it to peak his interest and lead him in the direction you want him to go.

No need to tell him he's wrong. Agree that MLM works for some people some of the time. But there may be other, faster ways to make money.

Either way can work. Mention he should consider his other options too.

Plant the seed, and let him grow it himself.