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INTRO Hello from a 15 years old guy :D

Matt Sun

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Seems anybody can tell you what they think you should do. I think you should trust yourself and drop out if you think that's best. School is just indoctrination anyway.
 

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ZF Lee

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I can't imagine how unnecessarily difficult it would be without even a full high school education.
In my country, if you didn't pass History and Malay (the national language), you wouldn't get the high school certificate and would be unable to even find a McDonalds' job.

I didn't find that a problem to even score decently, as the studying was manageable- I found interest in Malay literature and even a bit of Islamic history. But even then the markers have always tried to pull down the minimum grade thresholds for A, B, C and D grades, so I might never know whether the letter grade on my transcript was legit haha.

So, really, what the F*ck are those people thinking that tell me each and every day "HEY LEVIN, you're too young and the thing you wanna do is too risky!"
Well, from the top of my head, project management, accounting and communicative/leadership skills would be great for business.

Sure, you might not pick them up in the classroom, but if your school had lots of clubs and societies for you to join, and learn up skills, it would be useful to build up basics.

If you haven't been a regular attendee to at least some of these extra activities, well, of course people see the lack of track record, and have their doubts.

For project management and accounting though, I needed a few college classes to truly understand how they worked together- and especially how the finance world works (important for getting into the minds of future investors). Online courses somehow just confused me.

I'm about to drop out of school, I just can't listen to this shit that my teachers tell me in school...
May sound a bit radical, but look, what have I to loose?
I almost dropped out of normal high school to become home-schooled, as my mum was disgusted at the crap of the high school system.

But when I looked at the home school she was pointing out to, it didn't feel like a very good place. Didn't have as many students to help out in co-curriculum clubs, to mingle with. Even the teachers themselves were too green to be even seen as reverse-role models.

So it took some pushing for her to drop the idea.

The last two years of my high school life were awesome.
-Got involved in a school-wide theatre performance, doing lots of stuff from publicity photography, to acting and band.

-Ramped up my senior year serving in the Drill section for the Boys' Brigade.

-Somehow started talking more to my girl, which eventually formed a baseline for my later FTE.
I didn't intend to have a relationship with her...it just eventually melted in when she saw how I was always getting 'into the fray'.

Had I left school, I would have missed A LOT.
So I don't think high school is that bullshit. You just have to find your resources and activities within school itself.

I had 1-2 teachers who were not formally trained as educators, but they had lots of 'school of hard knocks' experiences that made them kick-a$$ folks. I could write a thread on them lol!

But if you are still harping on dropping out, there's much the folks here can say, but probably a very important thing to do is to find a networking base.

Local, not just online. Face-to-face.


It can be a regular meetup.com group, a workplace ministry group (I'm attending one such soft opening soon in my city), or just a whatsapp group....a local group of people who are great in their industry, who have faced against adversity one way or another, and have sound moral values.

You don't need to mention your education unless asked, but you need to have a dominant skill to offer to the group.

Since you have mentioned lots of activities you are doing, that shouldn't be a problem.

Go find 1-2 people in the group that stand out, follow-up with simple offers to help with what you can, ask them how/who they are, and just get to know more about them.

Make friends, simply.

I've used this approach not as a high-school dropout, but as a 21-year-old guy going to meetups populated by late 30-50 year-olds men'. Very sharp age difference, and eyebrows raised and comments exchanged, but it was fine.
 
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Vairavan

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@Vairavan
1. Both, I've got one Philippino designing for me, but I also do few myself... (outsourcing that later on)
2. Yes, I've sold 7 shirts now (I just do it for 2 months) and that is growing
3. Traffic source in only organic at the moment... (there's no sense to do FB ads if I don't know what's selling)
You got it upside down kid. You should use FB ads to test which products sell. Here are my action steps for you:
1. First go to websites like Amazon Merch, Teespring, Threadless, etc and view popular designs.
2. Ask your Philippino friend to make similar designs or do it yourself.
3. Test them with your fb ads and Find the winning design.
4. Find a manufacturer in Alibaba and mass-produce them. Also, create a logo for your brand and put them on the neck of your t-shirt.
5. Then sell them on different platforms.
 
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Levin

Levin

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How is the Swiss welfare state is funded, do you know? Is it off of income taxes from people who are working in regular jobs?

I suggest making a serious study of the business you go into, while experimenting with it. Study successful brands in the wild. Read any related threads you can find here in the forum. Read business books and talk to people who've done similar things to what you want to do. Keep in mind that you are competing for people's attention and their resources. It's good to have fun with it, but put the serious work in too. Your 20, 30, and 40 year old selves will thank you.
@Rabby
Swiss welfare system is based on taxes from working people, yes.

I already do that. I investigate further every day...
Thanks for your tip with talking to successful people. I think I should do that more often...
 
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Levin

Levin

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Levin,

I’m on your side. I had a similar path. I ended with three years of University, but I did leave school for awhile at 16.

What did I learn? High school was unimportant and University was only good to prove to myself that I could do it. I could have left after a year with the same satisfaction.

What was my most sobering lesson later on? Entrepreneurs do not require education, but VC and Grant money is often controlled by education. You’re unlikely to receive business loans, grants or capital investments without more school.

@fvcorp
Interesting!
I think this point is one of the crunch points and I also thought about it many times...
If I need a loan I really need a good network of people... I have to build that up. I'm really engaged at local meetings with businessmen and other entrepreneurs.
So I think I have to go other paths...
But that was the main reason I doubted it a bit. Really worth a concern!
 
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Levin

Levin

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In my country, if you didn't pass History and Malay (the national language), you wouldn't get the high school certificate and would be unable to even find a McDonalds' job.

I didn't find that a problem to even score decently, as the studying was manageable- I found interest in Malay literature and even a bit of Islamic history. But even then the markers have always tried to pull down the minimum grade thresholds for A, B, C and D grades, so I might never know whether the letter grade on my transcript was legit haha.


Well, from the top of my head, project management, accounting and communicative/leadership skills would be great for business.

Sure, you might not pick them up in the classroom, but if your school had lots of clubs and societies for you to join, and learn up skills, it would be useful to build up basics.

If you haven't been a regular attendee to at least some of these extra activities, well, of course people see the lack of track record, and have their doubts.

For project management and accounting though, I needed a few college classes to truly understand how they worked together- and especially how the finance world works (important for getting into the minds of future investors). Online courses somehow just confused me.


I almost dropped out of normal high school to become home-schooled, as my mum was disgusted at the crap of the high school system.

But when I looked at the home school she was pointing out to, it didn't feel like a very good place. Didn't have as many students to help out in co-curriculum clubs, to mingle with. Even the teachers themselves were too green to be even seen as reverse-role models.

So it took some pushing for her to drop the idea.

The last two years of my high school life were awesome.
-Got involved in a school-wide theatre performance, doing lots of stuff from publicity photography, to acting and band.

-Ramped up my senior year serving in the Drill section for the Boys' Brigade.

-Somehow started talking more to my girl, which eventually formed a baseline for my later FTE.
I didn't intend to have a relationship with her...it just eventually melted in when she saw how I was always getting 'into the fray'.

Had I left school, I would have missed A LOT.
So I don't think high school is that bullshit. You just have to find your resources and activities within school itself.

I had 1-2 teachers who were not formally trained as educators, but they had lots of 'school of hard knocks' experiences that made them kick-a$$ folks. I could write a thread on them lol!

But if you are still harping on dropping out, there's much the folks here can say, but probably a very important thing to do is to find a networking base.

Local, not just online. Face-to-face.


It can be a regular meetup.com group, a workplace ministry group (I'm attending one such soft opening soon in my city), or just a whatsapp group....a local group of people who are great in their industry, who have faced against adversity one way or another, and have sound moral values.

You don't need to mention your education unless asked, but you need to have a dominant skill to offer to the group.

Since you have mentioned lots of activities you are doing, that shouldn't be a problem.

Go find 1-2 people in the group that stand out, follow-up with simple offers to help with what you can, ask them how/who they are, and just get to know more about them.

Make friends, simply.

I've used this approach not as a high-school dropout, but as a 21-year-old guy going to meetups populated by late 30-50 year-olds mens'. Very sharp age difference, and eyebrows raised and comments exchanged, but it was fine.

Hey @ZF Lee
Really like your comment!
To my plans with school dropout... I just think our cultures are too different and the whole system and the main conditions are different.
Here, I hate the environment and people are negatively tuned...
I know I need to build a network of people, I joined two clubs in my city, and I'm expanding this. I'll also need people to give me VC/loans for business (which I won't get that easy with no further education)
And I'm really working on my skills, EACH AND EVERY DAY.
Thank you for the comment!
 
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Levin

Levin

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You got it upside down kid. You should use FB ads to test which products sell. Here are my action steps for you:
1. First go to websites like Amazon Merch, Teespring, Threadless, etc and view popular designs.
2. Ask your Philippino friend to make similar designs or do it yourself.
3. Test them with your fb ads and Find the winning design.
4. Find a manufacturer in Alibaba and mass-produce them. Also, create a logo for your brand and put them on the neck of your t-shirt.
5. Then sell them on different platforms.
@Vairavan
Thanks for your suggestion.
But in this business, this isn't the way.
I have a "Mentor" who's earning about 15K a month with that.
If I directly start with paid traffic, I'm likely going to waste a lot of money.
The thing is, you DON'T KNOW what's selling, you can't just build best selling designs.
There are 3 levels:

1. Organic - Learning what's selling and learning the process
2. Paid traffic - Learn Google/FB ads and promote on social media
3. Brand building - Build a brand and go fastlane.

The one with the logo on the neck isn't that nice because you pay extra if you print both sides of a product.

I'm in level one. It may take about 1-2 years before I really can build up a brand, to stay realistic.
But, yes, I'll do it similar as you described
 

Vairavan

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I have a "Mentor" who's earning about 15K a month with that.
How did you find him? Are you sure he is legit? Is he a POD guru like Kevin David?
Are you paying for his mentorship?

If I directly start with paid traffic, I'm likely going to waste a lot of money.
If you are going on organic route, you are going to waste lots of time.

First, start with some designs, Do it yourself to keep costs low (get inspiration from popular sellers in Merch, etc) send traffic to each individual product page and see which design converts most(If you know what I mean). Ditch the rest. Rinse and repeat. When you have 10 designs that you're sure will sell, go find a manufacturer.

I asked you to put logos in the neck only during mass production. Costs should be low then. You see we are creating a brand. If you are doing this as a hobby then the logo is not necessary.For building a solid business you've to think long term.
 
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Levin

Levin

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How did you find him? Are you sure he is legit? Is he a POD guru like Kevin David?
Are you paying for his mentorship?



If you are going on organic route, you are going to waste lots of time.

First, start with some designs, Do it yourself to keep costs low (get inspiration from popular sellers in Merch, etc) send traffic to each individual product page and see which design converts most(If you know what I mean). Ditch the rest. Rinse and repeat. When you have 10 designs that you're sure will sell, go find a manufacturer.

I asked you to put logos in the neck only during mass production. Costs should be low then. You see we are creating a brand. If you are doing this as a hobby then the logo is not necessary.For building a solid business you've to think long term.
@Vairavan
Yes, he's absolutely legit. I don't pay for his mentorship, I just bought his online course, but he didn't force me for that or something.
He has evidence and in his facebook group he's active everyday with a high effort.

Yes, I'll look that I go quite fast to paid traffic. But I don't want to start like that.
Maybe in 2-3 months I'll promote my first design (I'll know my bestsellers then)
Yes, if I manufacture, I'll put the logo on the neck.
 

Vairavan

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I just bought his online course
So, he is a guru.

Just think for yourself. If he is making so much money doing it why should he teach others? Is he training his competitors? Why does he want to give away his golden goose?

Believe me, I've spent so much money on gurus and courses. It's not worth it. I bet he is making more money teaching you how to start a POD business than from his own POD business.

Find someone in that business and ask for advice. Don't follow a guru. Runway whenever someone gives you a formula for success in a particular business.
 
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Levin

Levin

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So he is a guru :blank: .

Just think for yourself. If he is making so much money doing it why should he teach others?
Does he want to give away his golden goose? I bet he is making more money teaching you how to start POD business than his own POD business.

@Vairavan
No, he's doing that business since 10 years.
With the course, he has earned about 20k, what isn't much for the effort he had.
Also he provides personal support for free.
He's giving away the knowledge because he has his designs there. They're ranked and can't be attacked that fast.
Also he isn't really in this business anymore.
He's building his own brand now, after several years of organic and paid traffic.
The success with his online course and the related FB group is save. Just need to do it and to stay uploading.
 

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Kak

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Lol... The biggest thing I am shocked about is @Levin is actually making a very rational argument for ditching school... AND he is doing it with proper grammar and coherent language skills. On top of all of this, he apologizes for any error because english isn't even his first language.

Language skills that many college graduates I know do not have.

He talks about continuous improvement like someone that actually continously improves themselves. Even his avatar is professional.

@Levin, to me you seem like the rare kind of person that can rise above instutitionalized learning and actually be smart. Kudos to you. Whatever decision you make, I have confidence you will do very well.

My only caution to you is your inexperience. Things RARELY go as planned, but it seems like you already know that... Which makes you very mature for 15.

Remember this is YOUR decision. No one else's.
 
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Kak

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Hey @Primeperiwinkle
Sure, I'll shortly explain that.
We have a kind of basic school, duration 6 years.
There I graduated with almost maximum grades.
Then there are 3 levels, let's say low, medium and high.
I have been in the high one for 2 years, then even moved to a special gymnasium for the last year of mandatory school.
Now, like I said, in Switzerland, we have one of the best social care systems, so homeless people basically don't exist.
And I really overthought many many times and also my parents did...
Now I'm at a point where I feel ready!
And I really know what I do, in my free time I work EVERY MINUTE on my business activities!
So, to your last question, my income is from my stock portfolio (not that much, but will grow) and from other partnerships (I manage asset of my grandparents and parents and take a fee for it)...
And the main income stream is a business in the Print on demand sector, there I sell T-Shirts and stuff on platforms like Spreadshirt, Redbubble, etc.

Thank you for taking care of me hehe.
Levin
The dude is a mini swiss banker/hedge fund manager.

Love this!
 

Primeperiwinkle

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He’s a guru. Sorry little dude. Trust us on this. You seem like you’re definitely smart enough to go far and you’re trusting your gut - which every leader HAS to know how to do.

As for the t-shirts you can photoshop the designs on a pic and put them on fb and see what sells then order those designs. Super simple low cost way of doing it.
The dude is a mini swiss banker/hedge fund manager.

Love this!
I like him too. The second he dropped the emojis and started explaining himself he did really well but I don’t know if dropping out entirely will be best. I have a feeling he might really enjoy being in some clubs like ZF Lee said. Anyhoo, he seems like a very cool little dude.
 

Tullygetsfree

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I was thinking about this thread this morning, and something crossed my mind.

He's already this smart and skilled at this young age, can you guys imagine what he could do if he had the titles? I bet he could pick any major and slay it.
 

Primeperiwinkle

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I was thinking about this thread this morning, and something crossed my mind.

He's already this smart and skilled at this young age, can you guys imagine what he could do if he had the titles? I bet he could pick any major and slay it.
But that’s just it. It’s not about a major.. it’s about becoming the best human being he can be who will grow up and help other human beings.
 
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Levin

Levin

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Lol... The biggest thing I am shocked about is @Levin is actually making a very rational argument for ditching school... AND he is doing it with proper grammar and coherent language skills. On top of all of this, he apologizes for any error because english isn't even his first language.

Language skills that many college graduates I know do not have.

He talks about continuous improvement like someone that actually continously improves themselves. Even his avatar is professional.

@Levin, to me you seem like the rare kind of person that can rise above instutitionalized learning and actually be smart. Kudos to you. Whatever decision you make, I have confidence you will do very well.

My only caution to you is your inexperience. Things RARELY go as planned, but it seems like you already know that... Which makes you very mature for 15.

Remember this is YOUR decision. No one else's.
@Kak
Thanks for your comment, really like that. hehe
I know that, even if I don't know how it feels to fail massively and get up again...
But I'm trying my best for preparing me for this...
 

Tullygetsfree

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But that’s just it. It’s not about a major.. it’s about becoming the best human being he can be who will grow up and help other human beings.
Of course. I was just thinking about the possibilities/experiences that he could make (scholarships, clubs, Erasmus program and so on).

As I wrote in a reply yesterday, he should do what he thinks it's best for him. :smile2:
 

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Hey Man

it's all really impressive.

The only thing I can suggest is to have close relatives/friends supporting you. And not even financially, but mentally. It can become tough and it is important to have support.

How do your parents feel about it?

Are you living with them? etc etc

Btw at your age the advantage is nobody expects from you to earn an adult salary and parents will support you...

---------------------------------------------

You shouldn't worry about formal education unless you want a path that everyone takes. And if you need a piece of paper to get you somewhere, you can always buy it, by hiring a person that has it or by just buying a diploma.

Not once in my life have I been asked to show my college diploma, or even secondary school, in a business situation. But I have been assessed by the value I can add and my professionalism (the way I present myself e.g. communicate). You will learn it faster and better in business situations. Most probably, if you are in a public school, you will learn how to memorise stuff and things that are counterproductive in business. Also Mon-Fri, 9-5 routines which are detrimental.

Swiss passport is really powerful and you can change countries as you wish (probably). Travel and meet people... You probably know 4 languages? German, French, Italian, English?

--------------------------------

If your parents are supporting your ideas then don't even hesitate. I love your attitude.
 

Suzanne Bazemore

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@Levin, I have a nephew who just graduated from high school at age 15. Is there any way, in Switzerland, that you can perhaps take an alternative route to speed things up for yourself, but still graduate?

Also, consider that if you stay in traditional school, you might be able to help your business by leveraging your connections and promoting your t-shirts. Could you design and sell t-shirts to your school or your friends?
 

Bertram

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Hey @Tullygetsfree
Here in Switzerland, you can easily start working with 15, after your 9 year school experience, so if I wanted, I could go working, just the first 3 years I wouldn't earn much (about 1200 Swiss Francs per month), but that would be enough for me.
Like I said, I'm ready to live far below my means if i have to.
And I don't COMPLETLY drop out, I still would visit some english and computer science...
And also the social care system is one ob the best ( they give you about 600 Swiss francs plus an appartment for free)
Please don't drop out of school and rely on handouts from the Swiss social care agencies like you're an uneducated beggar. It's not good for your character.

Along with possibly useful information, a formal education teaches you to use your mind.

Good luck with your enterprises.
 

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Walter Hay

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@Levin, I am going against the majority opinion in this thread, but I know what you are planning can be done, because I have done it, although my circumstances were very different to yours. You can read my story here: FEATURED USER Walter Hay, Imp/Export Extraordinaire (Vandalay Industries)

I had to drop out of High School at about your age, due to poverty. Like you, I was always thinking about ways to improve my lot in life. Like you I had the intelligence to do things beyond what my age would suggest.

For me it was a difficult struggle, but largely, the secret to my success was that I never gave up.

From reading your posts I get the distinct impression that you can succeed in life without a formal education. I hope I am not leading you astray, but I agree with @Kak:

The dude is a mini swiss banker/hedge fund manager.
Whatever you choose to do, you have come to the right place to discuss it and fine tune your ideas. On this amazing forum you will find help, support, and criticism. Just keep in mind that the criticism will be constructive and not intended to hurt you.

Best Wishes,
Walter
EDIT: P.S. But I think you are tough enough to take it anyway.
 
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Levin

Levin

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Hey Man

it's all really impressive.

The only thing I can suggest is to have close relatives/friends supporting you. And not even financially, but mentally. It can become tough and it is important to have support.

How do your parents feel about it?

Are you living with them? etc etc

Btw at your age the advantage is nobody expects from you to earn an adult salary and parents will support you...

---------------------------------------------

You shouldn't worry about formal education unless you want a path that everyone takes. And if you need a piece of paper to get you somewhere, you can always buy it, by hiring a person that has it or by just buying a diploma.

Not once in my life have I been asked to show my college diploma, or even secondary school, in a business situation. But I have been assessed by the value I can add and my professionalism (the way I present myself e.g. communicate). You will learn it faster and better in business situations. Most probably, if you are in a public school, you will learn how to memorise stuff and things that are counterproductive in business. Also Mon-Fri, 9-5 routines which are detrimental.

Swiss passport is really powerful and you can change countries as you wish (probably). Travel and meet people... You probably know 4 languages? German, French, Italian, English?

--------------------------------

If your parents are supporting your ideas then don't even hesitate. I love your attitude.

@Everyman
I'm currently trying to build my environment in the right direction...
My parents stay behind me and yes, I'm living with them.
I know German as my native language, English I can speak on a conversational level and French also a little bit. Italian isn't taught in school and neither I've learned it myself...
Thanks for your comment!
 
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Levin

Levin

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@Levin, I have a nephew who just graduated from high school at age 15. Is there any way, in Switzerland, that you can perhaps take an alternative route to speed things up for yourself, but still graduate?

Also, consider that if you stay in traditional school, you might be able to help your business by leveraging your connections and promoting your t-shirts. Could you design and sell t-shirts to your school or your friends?
@Suzanne Bazemore
Yes, there is a way but it's too complex...
Don't worry, I'll find other ways to expand my t-shirt business.
That can't be the reason for staying in school for 3 years.
 
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Levin

Levin

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@Levin, I am going against the majority opinion in this thread, but I know what you are planning can be done, because I have done it, although my circumstances were very different to yours. You can read my story here: FEATURED USER Walter Hay, Imp/Export Extraordinaire (Vandalay Industries)

I had to drop out of High School at about your age, due to poverty. Like you, I was always thinking about ways to improve my lot in life. Like you I had the intelligence to do things beyond what my age would suggest.

For me it was a difficult struggle, but largely, the secret to my success was that I never gave up.

From reading your posts I get the distinct impression that you can succeed in life without a formal education. I hope I am not leading you astray, but I agree with @Kak:


Whatever you choose to do, you have come to the right place to discuss it and fine tune your ideas. On this amazing forum you will find help, support, and criticism. Just keep in mind that the criticism will be constructive and not intended to hurt you.

Best Wishes,
Walter
EDIT: P.S. But I think you are tough enough to take it anyway.

@Walter Hay
Impressive story.
I also recognised that this forum is a great opportunity to network.
Thanks for your comment!
 

ZF Lee

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So, he is a guru.

Just think for yourself. If he is making so much money doing it why should he teach others? Is he training his competitors? Why does he want to give away his golden goose? believe me, I've spent so much money on gurus and courses. It's not worth it. I bet he is making more money teaching you how to start a POD business than from his own POD business.

Find someone in that business and ask for advice. Don't follow a guru. Runway whenever someone gives you a formula for success in a particular business.
I'm actually fine with a 'guru', as long as I don't rely 100% on him for my education and ultimately, my success. (and of course, if you can pay for the course, and use the info to get your ROI)

If they have other students, who share stuff that happens differently than expected with the tricks they were taught by the master, then it might be fine to listen not only to the guru, but also the students.

Of course there are better ways for networking and learning new angles to your skill or business, but getting the right courses and gurus is just one pathway.

Not really black and white.

The dude is a mini swiss banker/hedge fund manager.
Swiss banker?
Hope he can solve the liquidity/credit crunches within the finance system.

I didn't know the brutal extent of the regular war that financial intermediaries fight all day long to keep liquid and make loans all at the same time, until I took up a Commercial Banking unit in college.:happy:
 
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guy93777

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So, really, what the F*ck are those people thinking that tell me each and every day "HEY LEVIN, you're too young and the thing you wanna do is too risky!"
you are this card in the tarot :

28209



i explain :

the fool is what stands above common sense . above reason

it means that
either you are a genius above most people

or you are crazy and life will punish you for your arrogance
 

Champion

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Hi Levin, welcome to the forum ;)

You need cashflow to build a business.

As others in the thread have suggested, I would advise you to enjoy the next 3 years in school and dont get ahead of yourself by dropping out with 15 lol.

Get a job and work on the weekends or after school if you are really burning for it.

Also, join an entrepreneurs club or find other creative ways of earning money (i.e. host parties and market them to your fellow students. Charge for entry to the party, make profit). Things like that.

Best
 

Bertram

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j
you are this card in the tarot :

View attachment 28209



i explain :

the fool is what stands above common sense . above reason

it means that
either you are a genius above most people

or you are crazy and life will punish you for your arrogance
@guy93777
It's nice to see you back. Don't you think the message in this Fool Tarot card applies to you and me as well? And a bunch of others here?
I think I'm the Fool on some of my better days.
The Fools have honesty, balance and humor, and they know how much they don't know.

I mentioned it before, but you could be a miraculous hit in the graphic novel industry.
Niches like YA gothic metaphysics and Jungians spiritualists would go ga-ga over your gaming, secretive, agenda. It comes off sometimes as passive aggressive, but that approach is the norm among fiction-writing elitists.

I hope you'll give it some thought, @guy93777 .
 
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