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Lex DeVille's: Guru Cults Exposed: The Tactics "Experts" Use To Pull You In & Suck You Dry

Jedwab

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Holy long post Batman, but many good points! I like this one: There will also be a built in demand for this stuff because of easification. It's easier to follow, than to lead, research, and critically think.

I do talk a lot probably could have said the same thing with half the words.

But I agree - we live in world where most want instant gratification, sad but true. Everything delivered on a plate, instantly. What is frustrating is that people that fall for this, just don't get the fact that they still have to do the work. But they will always be there , and will always feed the demand.

It really pisses me off as I really think that because education being the way it is ( ie , have a medal for taking part) , does not encourage the younger generation to be leaders or think outside of the box. I know it's down to the parents to educate their kids, and I do that with my daughter every day. But they are a sum of many parts, and sadly after spending so many hours at school, they are influenced regardless. There should be a compulsory subject at school called "Common Sense". I'm not going to start ranting on that subject as will probably end up with another 3 pages.
 
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p0stscript

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There should be a compulsory subject at school called "Common Sense". I'm not going to start ranting on that subject as will probably end up with another 3 pages.

Unfortunately for it to be a compulsory subject you would need enough teachers who know the subject. Having worked in the education system I believe the saying "common sense is not very common" holds true in a lot of schools. Now whether it's because a lot of teachers have never been out of the education system (all they have known is education, education, education to coin a phrase) or they simply have a propensity to not show sound judgement, I wouldn't trust them to instill common sense either through word or action.
 

Jedwab

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Unfortunately for it to be a compulsory subject you would need enough teachers who know the subject. Having worked in the education system I believe the saying "common sense is not very common" holds true in a lot of schools. Now whether it's because a lot of teachers have never been out of the education system (all they have known is education, education, education to coin a phrase) or they simply have a propensity to not show sound judgement, I wouldn't trust them to instill common sense either through word or action.

True. And to a degree what is common sense, is subject to opinion and individual.
 

Brad S

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A short but very relevant video for this topic.

Macchiavelli's advice was actually written with this same goal as sinister lex wrote his original posts.

With the goal of arming and educating the ethical person.

View: https://youtu.be/GTQlnmWCPgA


Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 
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GMSI7D

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A short but very relevant video for this topic.

Macchiavelli's advice was actually written with this same goal as sinister lex wrote his original posts.

With the goal of arming and educating the ethical person.

View: https://youtu.be/GTQlnmWCPgA


Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


another guy from middle age who thinks the same way is Baltazar Gracian

his work is public domain since he died in 1658...

so here his " art of wordly wisdom " from archive.org

https://ia800203.us.archive.org/0/items/artofworldlywisd00gracuoft/artofworldlywisd00gracuoft.pdf



this is mind blowing as well
 

GMSI7D

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so i am not here to talk about "conspiracy things" because you wouldn't agree anyway

this is part of the crowd programming in wich we live : to not question anything


tru.jpg



no, i am here to tell you that the world is not what you think it is


let's an example as usual, so your critical mind will have to think a bit:



Georges Lucas is an INSIDERS , which means he is an initiate in the occult knowledge field

so it inspired him with " the Force " in his star wars movie


st.png



you might think " well this is BS anyway "

no this is not BS

this is called the reiki force


some asian masters are well beyond the masses but since the masses are stupid , the masters are reluctant to show their skils.


this is why occult knowledge is hidden in any esoteric field



for example


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2NAohPcT4U





this is the Force that INSIDERS Georges Lucas talks about in his star wars movie


so what's the point here ?


maybe we should be humble because this world is not at all
what we think it is

and i mean that : at all







 
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Jedwab

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maybe we should be humble because this world is not at all
what we think it is
and i mean that : at all

So, I am curious - have you seen the DMT documentary on Netflix at all? Whats your opinion on DMT?

I think a lot of what you posted is really interesting and I will have a good look when I get a moment, so thank you for that.

But that's all going waaaaay deep, some of this stuff is truly F*cking with peoples minds and beyond what people would even want to/need to comprehend.

Sadly, the gurus don't have to be nowhere near that smart or well versed, the manipulations are pretty simple stuff and this can be seen when broken down into a process as per Lex's post....
 
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Which takes me back to our genetic make up. We are made up of that plus everything we have learned and experienced, plus outside influences.

I would love to know what % is genetic make up. Are some people born to be psychopaths for example? So regardless of their upbringing and any outside influences they will be a psychopath? There are psychopaths with privileged upbringings, just as there are psychopaths that came from terrible backgrounds. Same with entrepreneurs. It's just a way of operating - thinking, feeling and being. So when you have this lovely newborn baby, are they really a COMPLETELY blank slate?

I think we often forget the role our ancestors/lineage play in our behavioural drivers. Genes are the blueprints passed down to us by our ancestors who survived the most hellish periods of human history.

During more primitive times it was actually a more effective strategy to be part of a group and follow the individual who was sure of themselves and could provide value. Of course this strategy had its downsides as Nietzsche discusses in his ideas on Master/Slave morality, nonetheless it was the best alternative. People value safety and certainty more than anything, it ensures our survival. And so this social structure/hierarchy seems to have been passed down genetically and culturally. It's the way we're wired.

If MJ DeMarco wasn't active on this forum and decided to leave it for another, how many of us would stay? Is it possible that a group/movement can be formed without someone leading?

As you said, this is some pretty deep sh*t and perhaps we're going farther than necessary but it is indeed interesting.
 

Jedwab

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I think we often forget the role our ancestors/lineage play in our behavioural drivers. Genes are the blueprints passed down to us by our ancestors who survived the most hellish periods of human history.

During more primitive times it was actually a more effective strategy to be part of a group and follow the individual who was sure of themselves and could provide value. Of course this strategy had its downsides as Nietzsche discusses in his ideas on Master/Slave morality, nonetheless it was the best alternative. People value safety and certainty more than anything, it ensures our survival. And so this social structure/hierarchy seems to have been passed down genetically and culturally. It's the way we're wired.

If MJ DeMarco wasn't active on this forum and decided to leave it for another, how many of us would stay? Is it possible that a group/movement can be formed without someone leading?

As you said, this is some pretty deep sh*t and perhaps we're going farther than necessary but it is indeed interesting.

I love discussions like that, but feel like I have been action faking lol ( sneakily filed in my brain as 'personal development).

I think that yes , group movements can be formed without a leader, but a leader usually emerges at some point.

I had a discussion the other day with someone about self healing. They were adamant its not possible unless they see it with their own eyes ( I'm on the fence still ). So my question was "If you turned the TV on tomorrow, on EVERY SINGLE PERSON on there, in fact in all the media and everyone all around you now believed it WAS possible, would you change your mind? Without seeing proof?" The answer after a long and confused pause was " I guess so"... so there we go, the power of the masses.

On a basic level, when I sell to someone all i need to say is "90% of my clients go for this package". 70% of the time its foolproof. You can decide exactly what you want to sell people and do it.

Re the forum, I haven't been here long enough to know the answer but from what I can see there are many super experienced people on here and I am guessing someone would take over over the role of leader. And I'm pretty sure it would also depend under what circumstances MJ left.
 

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Watching The Push on Netflix this evening. Worth a watch if you want to see how profound these psychological techniques can be. Derren Brown applies many familiar methods to get a man to push another man from a building using a compliance test followed by small commitments leading to bigger commitments and even the assumption of an alternative identity.

You'll find all of Cialdini's principles of persuasion at play here, as well as the effects of social pressure and their power to persuade. You'll also see how those with money can completely control an experience from start to finish without an individual ever having a clue.

Loved the Push. Could not believe those people were actually doing the kicking as instructed. Scary shit.
 
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Jedwab

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A short but very relevant video for this topic.

Macchiavelli's advice was actually written with this same goal as sinister lex wrote his original posts.

With the goal of arming and educating the ethical person.

View: https://youtu.be/GTQlnmWCPgA


Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Bloody hell that video is depressing. So basically if you want to operate from a place of 100% integrity, you are royally F*cked and will never get anywhere...probably a little extreme...

I have to say I strongly disagree with what this says about " you are a sum of what you achieve". Now that is a load of bollocks. I am not what I achieve, you can take all that shit away and I will still be me.


Edited to say re Integrity - this is relative too. Because someone could be operating with 100% integrity and best intentions, but as soon as they put out an advert or promote the end result you can easily say that they are now manipulating aka appealing to peoples emotions. Its just how far you want to take that argument really. No is going to advertise the process are they...
 
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GMSI7D

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So, I am curious - have you seen the DMT documentary on Netflix at all? Whats your opinion on DMT?

I think a lot of what you posted is really interesting and I will have a good look when I get a moment, so thank you for that.

But that's all going waaaaay deep, some of this stuff is truly f*cking with peoples minds and beyond what people would even want to/need to comprehend.

Sadly, the gurus don't have to be nowhere near that smart or well versed, the manipulations are pretty simple stuff and this can be seen when broken down into a process as per Lex's post....

DMT stuff is not important

at least for people here

yes this is too advanced for you guys because you have absolutely no idea about this world

your understanding of the world is built from WHAT THE MEDIA told you

not from your own research


but this is just the tip of the ieceberg. i am not even scratching the surface of reality here

this is like basic math for 6 years old children . i am not joking here

the gurus manipulations are simple , like basic math for 6 years old children

but the real manipulations at the masterminds level are university math in this metaphor

so yes i won't go further because this is too advanced for you.

 

GMSI7D

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at least, you are smart enough to understand that we are monitored

this is not too advanced occult knowledge for you here. come on

this is official knowledge in the media

the NSA knows everything about your electronic behaviour

most people are very very predictable. in fact, they are so predictable than we can guess the crowd behaviour in any situation .

---> the other directed people as i said before


only a small percentage of people are beyond the NSA equations

why ? because of the nature of reality. some people are not that predictable and more aware than the crowd

this is the pareto principle at work : 80 % of the awareness of the population is owned by 20 % of this population




so this is why gurus are masters of the sheep



.
 
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Jedwab

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your understanding of the world is built from WHAT THE MEDIA told you
not from your own research

What research have you done that is not part of some sort of media?

yes this is too advanced for you guys because you have absolutely no idea about this world

Thank you for that insight. I think perhaps some do not need nor want to spend time on stuff that doesn't translate into their life. Maybe people learn stuff on a "as needed" basis. Maybe some dwell deeper, and some just scratch the surface. It's a choice. Some people don't want to understand or don't care to. Or don't need to. Doesn't mean they have no idea about this world.

And even if they did, so what? What if the truth is that everything a massive conspiracy theory? Then what? What can a single person do about it? Nothing. They can try...but they won't succeed as they will just be considered a nutjob or if they are truly dangerous they will get knocked on the head in the process, precisely because they are dangerous. Imagine now we had a mass movement of the MAJORITY of the population, saying "we've had enough! this is one big cult! we are being controlled, watched, we are just pawns in a game!" Right. Now what? Lets throw our electronic devices in the bin so we won't be monitored. Great...whats next? Lets convince the other half of the world that everything is a conspiracy theory. Great, now we are ALL convinced. What changes? Nothing. Because naturally leaders will emerge. There will always be a hierarchy. Because we are all wired differently. And humans are a complicated species . Some people yearn for power, and some don't.

What I described above, will never happen.

What we can CHOOSE to do as humans , is use the knowledge we have, to lead the lives we want. And that is what is relevant here. For those who couldn't see through it already, the OP is extremely useful - as it may help them avoid being duped or make them understand a little more about manipulation. Doesn't matter how simple or complex the manipulation is. This knowledge is useful and relevant to operating a business which is what this thread was originally about.

What you are talking about is theories that may ( or indeed may not) be true. For the average human being, this sort of knowledge would simply induce paranoia, and make them spend their life in fear & speculation, so what's the point? Its not needed.

We are beautifully complicated and complex creatures, yet simple at the same time. Don't spend your life overthinking everything, it will just stop you living. Ultimately it all ends in death anyway.

so yes i won't go further because this is too advanced for you.

Ok then. Perhaps if you decide otherwise ( and I would be happy to hear about different theories), another, separate thread would make sense - as the original post sentiment is being lost a bit I think.
 
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p0stscript

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most people are very very predictable. in fact, they are so predictable than we can guess the crowd behaviour in any situation .

I tend to agree, although the British Government and I dare dare say European Governments got it wrong with Brexit.

We are beautifully complicated and complex creatures, yet simple at the same time

And that's what makes the world such a wonderful place.
 
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All these guys are pretty much the same. The talk is the same.

"John Pepper here...blah blah blah."

Funnel this. Funnel that.

Hack this. Hack that.

"The 1 secret that took me from sleeping in a dumpster & eating .24 cent canned cat food with my bare hands...to making trillions working 1 second per year."

And they always have a $997 training for you.

They over complicate the shit out of business to confuse the F*ck out of you so that you always feel like you're missing something to keep you coming back for more "training".

Are there things that you may not know that can keep you from selling your products? Sure.

But these guys make it seem like brain surgery.

And it ain't.
 

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@LPPC reminded me of it in another thread, but the place is here. Another great guru, a literal guru, Netflix documentary is Wild Wild Country, about Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh
 

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You're browsing Facebook when you see a post with a title like this:

The Biggest Mistake That Held Me Back From Hitting My First $1,000,000...
When I first started my business..........

It looks like a blog post. But you see a "read more" icon. So you click it and down pops a story.

Selena-Soo-Story-Ad.png

No harm in reading a story, you think. So you read the first line. But...

...you don't know this harmless sentence ends in a way that opens a loop in the mind that compels you to read more. Before you know it, you've read the third, fourth, and even twenty fifth lines.

By now you know you're reading an ad or maybe not. You may even wonder why you're still reading. But how could you not finish? That's like leaving a murder mystery before the killer is revealed.

When you start a story, you want to finish it.
(unless it sucks like new Star Wars)

When there's a question in your mind, you want to answer it.
(to close the loop)

So you keep reading...

Because the story is good. And it's good because it's about you.

Technically it's the author's story, but strangely, it parallels your own. The struggles, challenges, and failures...it's like you guys live the same lives.

The only part that deviates is where they made 7 figures and you have not.
(yet)

But if you're willing to sit through a Free Master Class, they'll reveal the 5 shifts that changed everything for them and when you get it, your life will change too.

This is how it begins...

Soon you've spent an hour alone watching a guru webinar designed to open your eyes to the error of your ways and show you how simple making millions can be.
(the real purpose is to make you feel good and give you hope)


If only you make those shifts...you'll be rich...and if you want help, the guru (or their team) has set aside time to speak with you to see if you're a fit to work with them to change your life.

But you'd better do it fast because spaces are limited.

So you click a link, fill out an application, and book a call.

Fast forward 3 months and you've spent $10,000 on credit for 8 weeks of training designed to teach you how to do all the things we just talked about. Doesn't matter what you teach in your "business" as long as you follow their "process."
(Also you get access to a Facebook group usually.)

THIS IS HOW GURU CULTS OPERATE...

It's not all that different from a NOT guru cult, which makes it hard to tell the difference. The key difference is one teaches a marketing system as a successful business (but calls it something else). The other teaches processes that open the doors to building a successful business.

Sometimes the funnels they use operate almost exactly the same. The problem with guru cults is they tell you that you can do what you love and be successful while secretly selling you the very system they used to get you to buy from them (rather than selling you their personal processes about how to do what they love and how that made them millions...because it didn't).

It's kind of like an MLM...Juice Plus, Amway, Mary Kay...except people actually do make a lot of money sometimes. As long as you sell the same system you bought to some other poor sap, you'll make back your investment and then some pretty fast (after all it only takes 2 schmoozers at $5,000 each to pay off that $10,000 loan).

At the top levels this works well. The marketing gurus at the top have a lot of money to spend figuring out how to get people to spend money. It works well at the second level too, because the people buying from the top gurus have plenty of money to spend. They get their water from the well. It's when you get to the 3rd level and beyond that things start to go to sh*t.

At the 3rd level you've got marketing training mixed with "business" and "branding" and "spiritual awakenings." Now things start to get muddy. These people still sell the dream, but they don't have as much money to spend on training, or marketing, so they turn to their personal network and start there.

At first they make a few sales from friends or family (this is what the top-tier gurus suggest they do to gain traction fast). But soon they run out of people to sell to and they stop making money.

So they turn back to the marketing systems. They try Facebook ads but don't have much to spend, so it doesn't work very well. They try promoting themselves all over Facebook and social media but that doesn't work well either. Also, by this time it's been so long since they first started this path, that they forgot half the sh*t they learned in their training...

The only logical solution therefore is to return to their guru because they've "tried everything" but something still holds them back (you'll find that line in their customer emails). Lucky for them, the guru is hosting a 2 day seminar in the Himalayas and it's just $30,000 to attend................

the-khyber-himalayan-resort-spa-4.jpg

Anyone notice a pattern?

Anyway...

There are plenty of legit coaches, courses and trainings out there. There's also a f*ck ton of bullshit gurus and wannabes selling crackpot systems they don't understand to people they can't help.

In the posts that follow (and when I have time) I'm going to break down each part of the guru funnels, and the tactics and techniques they use to indoctrinate you into their cults and keep you there while practically stealing your cash.

Hopefully this thread will save some of you a lot of wasted time and cash, and help you make good judgments and buying decisions anytime you consider a training moving forward.

WHERE DID I GET THESE SECRET INSIGHTS?


I've worked directly with gurus at all levels. Built their funnels. Wrote their copy. Trained their students, and even launched courses and coaching programs of my own using some of their methods.

Also, I've bought courses from gurus, and through a rigorous process of due diligence have managed to only purchase useful sh*t up to this point. So hopefully some of those insights will help you.

Anyway, if you have any questions about gurus, or about a program you're considering taking, feel free to post them here. It's been a while since I spent time giving value to this forum, and this seems like a fair way to give back.

Even if you don't have questions right now, maybe you'll learn something from the posts that follow.

In the next post we'll look at some guru ads and break down different psychological tactics of influence and persuasion used to pull you in and suck you dry.

If that interests you, stay tuned...

P.S.

Look again at the ad above. Is it a BS guru, or does she sell a legit training program that might be useful for you? Consider it carefully. I'll tell you the answer in the next post.

@Andy Black @MJ DeMarco

Could you move this to the outside. Sorry about that. Thought I double checked and had it in the right forum.
This reminds me of a book I read last year called The Education of Millionaires by Michael Ellsberg. The book had good advice but It's basically a book that tries to promote marketers like his wife. He even got me into subscribing to many different blogs. I saw stories like this pop up every time i looked into the people he told me to find. The book is basically a marketing tactic that forces you to consume meaningless information from people like Victor Cheng, Seth Godin, Dan Kennedy, and even his wife.
 
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@LPPC reminded me of it in another thread, but the place is here. Another great guru, a literal guru, Netflix documentary is Wild Wild Country, about Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh
I just finished watching this, its incredible!! To think even after famous cases like the Jim Jones "Kool-Aid" Guru people still fall into cults such as this.
 

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I just finished watching this, its incredible!! To think even after famous cases like the Jim Jones "Kool-Aid" Guru people still fall into cults such as this.

Well, they usually don't put a sign up that reads "Welcome to the cult" ;)

Many people who wind up part of a cult believe they'd be the last person to wind up in a cult.

In fact, you're in a type of cult right now. It isn't a dangerous cult, but you can certainly see the parallels. You purchased a book and read it alone. Just you and the author and his words. You were awakened to a hidden truth and then you were given a chance to explore deeper.

You took that chance and made your way into the community -- a community of like minded individuals with deep conviction about right and wrong in regards to how to be successful. Victim mindset is bad. Fastlane mindset is good. etc.

Going a step further, you have the chance to open yourself up and put yourself out there. You can post progress threads. You're encouraged to share your wins and failures. In doing so, you become more deeply ingrained in the community. Eventually maybe you become an INSIDERS and deepen your commitment further.

As long as you conform and post things the community likes, you're welcome to stay. You'll be rewarded. You'll gain likes and followers. You'll gain praise and friendship. As long as you contribute to the cult leader's empire, you're a valued member of the team.

But if you start posting things in opposition to the group norms, things will quickly change. Suddenly people will be against you. You'll risk shame and negativity. In some cases you even risk excommunication.

There was no sign that said, "Welcome to the Cult."

The key difference here is that this community is based on value, and you can leave anytime you want. Sometimes people even promote that course of action. In dangerous cults, everything else follows a similar path, but when you decide to leave, that's when shit gets ugly.
 
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GMSI7D

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i don't believe gurus have respects for their clients

because intelligence can't respect stupidity

let me explain


i think that i am smart enough to buy something with logic

i wouldn't accept a script applied on me : product launch, copywriting and so on

thi is for the stupid irrational masses insulting intelligence, not for guys like me

i accept only one thing ,someone telling me :

" you are a logical guy unlike the stupid emotional masses, so i don't need tricks , here is the product and his features, you decide with pros and cons "

---> this is the only sales communication that i accept

or i shut the door on the guy




gurus need all this marketing stuff because people are irrational

this is like you need tricks to train your dog because it doesn't understand logic



dog.jpg




---> this is ok to train the dog




but training humans as well with marketing tricks shows that the masses are an insult to human intelligence


consume.jpg




---> so smart gurus have contempt for the masses. this is logic at work

they can't do otherwise

you can't force intelligence to respect stupidity


this is impossible
 

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this is for the stupid irrational masses insulting intelligence, not for guys like me

you can't force intelligence to respect stupidity
this is impossible

So are you saying all the people that benefited from @Sinisterslex 's post are stupid? Because they didn't see through the process before and the post helped them understand it either for the first time, or maybe just more clearly?
 

WJS

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So are you saying all the people that benefited from @Sinisterslex 's post are stupid? Because they didn't see through the process before and the post helped them understand it either for the first time, or maybe just more clearly?

@Jedwab why did you even bother? :rofl: It's so obvious that @GMSI7D think he's the only intelligent being in this planet, and the rest of the population should bow down and worship him.

Since we're at it, I think it's high time you create your own thread and post your ideas there instead of here. I find your posts in this thread highly condescending and am surprised that no one said a word yet.

You should totally title your new thread "Imparting my infinite wisdom unto you lowly, less intelligent forum members". I bet it'll become an "instant GOLD". What say you @MJ DeMarco?
 
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Brad S

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i don't believe gurus have respects for their clients

because intelligence can't respect stupidity

let me explain


i think that i am smart enough to buy something with logic

i wouldn't accept a script applied on me : product launch, copywriting and so on

thi is for the stupid irrational masses insulting intelligence, not for guys like me

i accept only one thing ,someone telling me :

" you are a logical guy unlike the stupid emotional masses, so i don't need tricks , here is the product and his features, you decide with pros and cons "

---> this is the only sales communication that i accept

or i shut the door on the guy




gurus need all this marketing stuff because people are irrational

this is like you need tricks to train your dog because it doesn't understand logic



View attachment 18818




---> this is ok to train the dog




but training humans as well with marketing tricks shows that the masses are an insult to human intelligence


View attachment 18819




---> so smart gurus have contempt for the masses. this is logic at work

they can't do otherwise

you can't force intelligence to respect stupidity


this is impossible
I agree with the general tone of what you're saying.

But here's the thing:

If I were to try and influence or persuade you you have made it very obvious exactly how to do it.

If I was a "guru" I would say:

"You're not like the rest of my clients.

They don't get it.

You are like me.

You see the world as it is.

I know I can't persuade you anyway, so here's what I'm going to do.

For you I'm going to cut all of the bullshit and just tell you the truth.

Since we're equals, I won't insult your intelligence with the same emotional sales pitch I have to do with the others."

And then I would proceed to sell you the exact same thing as everyone else.

The person that can't be manipulated, has no hopes, no fears and sees themselves not as an idiot not as a genius.

They don't see themselves as anything at all.

Nor do they desire to.

Obviously this would be almost impossible for a human to do.

But the farther in this direction you can go, the less you will be able to be manipulated.

You see yourself as more intelligent than 99% of the people out there.

You want to be seen as more intelligent than 99% of the people out there.

Maybe you fear NOT being more intelligent than 99% of the people out there.

These are all BIG levers to persuade and manipulate you with.

To think that you are above being persuaded or influenced, even if you know all of the tricks in the game and are an expert in human nature, is setting yourself up to be persuaded and influenced.



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Brad S

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Well, they usually don't put a sign up that reads "Welcome to the cult" ;)

Many people who wind up part of a cult believe they'd be the last person to wind up in a cult.

In fact, you're in a type of cult right now. It isn't a dangerous cult, but you can certainly see the parallels. You purchased a book and read it alone. Just you and the author and his words. You were awakened to a hidden truth and then you were given a chance to explore deeper.

You took that chance and made your way into the community -- a community of like minded individuals with deep conviction about right and wrong in regards to how to be successful. Victim mindset is bad. Fastlane mindset is good. etc.

Going a step further, you have the chance to open yourself up and put yourself out there. You can post progress threads. You're encouraged to share your wins and failures. In doing so, you become more deeply ingrained in the community. Eventually maybe you become an INSIDERS and deepen your commitment further.

As long as you conform and post things the community likes, you're welcome to stay. You'll be rewarded. You'll gain likes and followers. You'll gain praise and friendship. As long as you contribute to the cult leader's empire, you're a valued member of the team.

But if you start posting things in opposition to the group norms, things will quickly change. Suddenly people will be against you. You'll risk shame and negativity. In some cases you even risk excommunication.

There was no sign that said, "Welcome to the Cult."

The key difference here is that this community is based on value, and you can leave anytime you want. Sometimes people even promote that course of action. In dangerous cults, everything else follows a similar path, but when you decide to leave, that's when sh*t gets ugly.
That's the perfect description of how unaware someone even is that they are in a cult and ironically talking about cults.

And what are the levers used to manipulate someone in an example like this?

Or more to the point how does someone manipulate themselves in a situation like this?

1) Looking for answers outside yourself.

Someone else, an "expert" has the answers to end your confusion.

2) The need to be liked, respected, validated, fit in.

To be part of the club "in the know".



So what's the answer to this?

Maybe Zen/Confucianism and Stoicism.

They deal alot with a ridding ourselves of all of these things mostly referred to as the ego.





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Kane9

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I tend to agree, although the British Government and I dare dare say European Governments got it wrong with Brexit.

Remain got it wrong, but the leave campaign didn't, they knew their audience and knew what they needed to hear.

I don't want to get away from Lex's great thread and turn this into a political point, but I thought it's kind of relevant. The current story of Cambridge analytica is interesting. I think it's clear that before the US election, they worked with Leave.EU.

A lot of the manipulation techniques they used are discussed in this thread. Only they were able to do it on a much larger scale. And because of the data they had available, they knew exactly who they had to sway, and what their weaknesses were, so were able to get their manipulation campaign spot on.

Cambridge Analytica were filmed undercover saying that the important thing is to create emotionally compelling argument, rather than a logically sound one. They did it with the leave campaign by creating the bogeymen to stand up to (EU bureaucrats & immigrants). Then they did it in the US election with the Crooked Hillary campaign.

Generally, humans are very predictable, and the level of data now available means we're ripe for very targeted manipulation.. whether your money is the target, or your vote.
 

MJ DeMarco

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Well, they usually don't put a sign up that reads "Welcome to the cult" ;)

Many people who wind up part of a cult believe they'd be the last person to wind up in a cult.

In fact, you're in a type of cult right now. It isn't a dangerous cult, but you can certainly see the parallels. You purchased a book and read it alone. Just you and the author and his words. You were awakened to a hidden truth and then you were given a chance to explore deeper.

You took that chance and made your way into the community -- a community of like minded individuals with deep conviction about right and wrong in regards to how to be successful. Victim mindset is bad. Fastlane mindset is good. etc.

Going a step further, you have the chance to open yourself up and put yourself out there. You can post progress threads. You're encouraged to share your wins and failures. In doing so, you become more deeply ingrained in the community. Eventually maybe you become an INSIDERS and deepen your commitment further.

As long as you conform and post things the community likes, you're welcome to stay. You'll be rewarded. You'll gain likes and followers. You'll gain praise and friendship. As long as you contribute to the cult leader's empire, you're a valued member of the team.

But if you start posting things in opposition to the group norms, things will quickly change. Suddenly people will be against you. You'll risk shame and negativity. In some cases you even risk excommunication.

There was no sign that said, "Welcome to the Cult."

The key difference here is that this community is based on value, and you can leave anytime you want. Sometimes people even promote that course of action. In dangerous cults, everything else follows a similar path, but when you decide to leave, that's when sh*t gets ugly.

I was hoping that most people here would see the parallels of the "cult" and what we have going on here. Very similar dynamics except everyone here is free to go and the *cult* leader isn't deviously plotting how to extract every dollar out of your wallet/purse.

The purpose of the cult is actually detrimental to the cult itself -- freedom from anything and everything. Kinda like a self-defeating business model -- on Match.com if you find the love of your life and the service does its job, they lose a customer.
 

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