This is a really interesting discussion. It's one I often try to have with friends, but they tend to check out quite early as they simply cannot fit into their head, that manipulation is everywhere, every day. What I find fascinating is that it is obvious to some of us, yet to others it isn't at all. I do often wonder if people are born to be a certain way, or can any of this be learned. Many people who are gurus, have natural charisma and likeability - and i think a natural inner compass that makes them "know" how to manipulate. Whether that's manipulate with good intentions or bad is irrelevant. Some people may have the full knowledge and understanding of all concepts in this thread, but even if they applied them, they could never "make it", because they are unable to come across in a way that people will put their faith in them, no matter what they do. I am sure there are many people out who actually have amazing skills and can help others, but they are simply unable to package it.
I am a strong believer in perception. I build my whole business on perception and its fascinating to see things play out in front of your eyes , just the way you thought/knew they would. But when I told a couple of very close friends exactly how I do things, one of them said " you scare me". But I would never do anything bad, I just think there are ways of making people do what you want them to do. That is not a bad skill to have. Yet sometimes it makes you feel ashamed as you are orchestrating things. With gurus I think there is no shame, to a degree they are probably like psychopaths, and will stop over dead bodies to get to where they want. Or they really do believe their own hype, which then makes it so much more believable as they talk with such conviction they can probably sell sand in the dessert. Is there something in between? Someone who really offers real value ( yes I know its relative), who has the natural charm and charisma, and really puts themselves out there to help others, but quite happily admits they want to make money in the process? And how do you pick out those that are genuine among the hundreds of 'gurus' popping up on your FB feed, the countless emails and everywhere else?
The answer is, you can't unless you have an internal compass that leads you to the right place. Or you physically go through these courses etc. and actually try them. And like Lex said doing your due diligence is the right and sensible thing to do. But that means looking past the "dream" they are selling. But whatever you decide, what you get out of any of them is what you put in anyway, right?
So my thoughts on gurus...yes they play on human emotions. Yes there is a clear process. Most people will never, ever see through it, because it just does not fit into their head that this is is a "process" they are being put through. Whether that be through shame or just sheer disbelief, who knows. The world is mostly made up of followers. So the question is, even if suddenly all the followers knew the "process" would that change anything at all? I don't think it would. Yes it may open some minds or make things clearer to them. But mostly, those who know, already know - as they can see right through it. Those that can't see right through it , are just not wired that way. Some might become clearer with a helping hand, but internally, they know. Much like you know when you are doing something you shouldn't really be doing, we all have an internal voice....I think?
Which takes me back to our genetic make up. We are made up of that plus everything we have learned and experienced, plus outside influences.
I would love to know what % is genetic make up. Are some people born to be psychopaths for example? So regardless of their upbringing and any outside influences they will be a psychopath? There are psychopaths with privileged upbringings, just as there are psychopaths that came from terrible backgrounds. Same with entrepreneurs. It's just a way of operating - thinking, feeling and being. So when you have this lovely newborn baby, are they really a COMPLETELY blank slate?
We will never know these answers, not really. Ultimately, the online space is always going to be filled with charlatans. Its a demand and supply thing. They can recognize that some people will be duped and use that opportunity and see nothing wrong with it. And lets face it, are these people actually being duped if that person is putting out value? So if they buy a course/ method , and actually follow it 100% and do what they are meant to do, could they be successful? Who knows, I am sure there are some courses that give more value than others. The issue really is that most people do not see things through. They expect shit to happen purely based on the fact hey bought something. The triggers for buying something I think are very different based on where you are in life at the time - for some it will be the fear of missing out, for some the need to belong, for some putting the guru on a pedestal like a god, and for some - the see clearly what is on offer and know upfront what they want to get out of it. Its what resonates with you at the time.
All of this can be pulled apart in a million different ways - humans are fascinating creatures. I think to certain degree if you are in the online space you need to "play the game". And most do. Some don't and they choose to be themselves, unapologetic for having what would be unpopular opinion, and choosing to be themselves and being brave to put that out there. And I felt that when I read "Unscripted" - it was like someone getting in my head and putting words on paper. Like talking to an old friend that got it. And that resonated with me - because it came to me at the right time, in the right place in my life. And I felt that joining this forum will teach me something. But, having had made at least another 15 people around me read the book ( coz I'm persuasive like that), only 1 person actually got it. I don't view MJ as a guru, because I don't believe in gurus. But I really appreciate this forum, because it is mostly filled with people that make sense to me, and I think have more knowledge & experience than me. I was happy to pay for the insiders fee because I decided it was worth it to me, and it wasn't about belonging or some yearning to be part of a bigger crowd, it just FELT like this part of the forum was full of people that cut through bullshit and see things differently. This may be true , or it may not be, but that was my perception.
Now 14 of my friends either didn't finish the book completely, never started it or having read it simply decided it was too "out there", or haven't understood it and are under the impression that its some big con. Maybe its just didn't appeal to them because most people don't question stuff. Which is fine - I say live and let live.
I honestly think that we are just all wired differently. I had a convo with some friends a couple of nights ago about spontaneous remission, and the concept of being able to use your subconscious to heal oneself or others, using powers of the mind etc.
I am an open person and will consider all possibilities, and enjoy discussions like that. I'm not saying I necessarily believe that, I just think you cant discount something completely without spending some time considering it or researching it. There are obviously exceptions to this statement.
Wayne Dyer ( is he a guru? i dont know but I guess so) came up in that convo, as I have been studying his work among many others and my friend said this -
" Oh he is one of those gurus that rip people off". So I inquired as to why he thinks so. He said that his girlfriend in the past was ripped off by loads of gurus and he was one of them. So I prodded some more and essentially by the time I got to the bottom of things, it turned out that actually she used to quote him and read his books.
But my friend didn't know if she bought anything else from him, he just heard that name, and because her ultimate demise ( aka financial ruin due to bad debt from signing up with everything and everyone) was due to her being gullible, he put that name mentally in his "conman" box. It wasn't an educated decision, it was simply made on one person having a bad experience due to making her own bad decisions. And just because she mentioned a few names in the process, my friend decided they are all charlatans. When it all got broken down, he actually had no proof or reason to believe it, he simply did. And that is majority of people - they can hear 2 or 3 wrong pieces of information and in their mind they become fact. There is no rhyme or reason to it because of the different wiring people have. Some question stuff and some don't. Yes their upbringing, learned fears and beliefs and social influences will have SOME influence on how they operate. Personally i would like to know what % of it is wiring ( genetics) and what isn't.
But it does not change the fact that this is just the way it is. And being able to see through it daily ( advertising etc) is great, as long as it doesn't make you become a complete cynic, suspicious of everything and everyone. And it can be tiring, overthinking stuff. I am guilty of that and literally sometimes wish for an empty brain. Being able to think of NOTHING. But I am working on that.
Gurus come hidden in many different ways, and opening peoples eyes to them , although noble , its a massive endeavor. They will never be stopped though. The way the world is going, sadly I think it will only get worse. The best we can do is to educate our children to be themselves. Do what feels right to them, and follow their internal compass ( unless you know they are a born psychopath). To try and make educated decisions, based on solid research , but also what feels right. Not be afraid to stand alone, and F*ck following the crowds. And not be frustrated when they decide to take their own route, one that may be different to what we desire and see as best for them. I detest social media, but to a degree its an amazing tool for building businesses. So educate your kids to use it, just use it the right way. There are many entrepreneurs or people that are put on pedestals that come from a good place, like Richard Branson for example. Nothing wrong with looking up to them.
Then there are the ones who don't give a shit about humanity, and even if they actually make that clear they will still have millions of followers. Because mostly, its easier for people to a follower than to stand on their own. And some really don't care about that - they will pay money to gurus, just to say they have "done" this course or been part of that coveted crowd. I know women who are course junkies, having done every Amy Porterfield, Mary Forleo and a bunch of others courses. They are still in the same place as to where they started. They are poorer, but they are still happy as they feel a part of something exciting and the community aspect often matters to them more than the course contents. They will all get to a point when they realise that unless they actually take some action, nothing will happen, but in the meantime the feeling of belonging is enough. Maybe they are not ready to stand on their own. Does that make Amy or Marie charlatans? Or simply smart cookies who see a demand/supply and are simply playing the game? Putting out content which when applied would work in the right hands, but because they know that people who are like them, can see right through it and probably wont buy the course as they can work it out themselves? And the ones that do, 99.99% will not follow it through? One would ask , why shouldn't they put it out if people choose to buy and there is demand? Because they are playing on the fact that they know there are loads of people out there that buy their courses, thinking they will somehow become them, fully knowing that will never happen, apart maybe to a select few ( and they still wont be THEM obvs)? And those select few again are just a small % of the population that can sort of see through but not quite, and they just need a nudge to make them see how its done?
Because that would be like saying all advertising is bad - just because you buy a cookbook, doesn't mean you can cook the meal to look like exactly the attached picture. So you could say that is false advertising. But you could also say that the person who wrote the cookbook cannot be held accountable for the fact that people work /are wired differently , and some will cook it perfectly whilst some will make it look like something your dog produced from their rear end. If everyone thought like that nothing would exist as everything would be seen as a con. How far can this be taken really? Bottom line is there are over 7 billion people in this world, and there will always be something out there that appeals to someone. Hence niches work, they are just little mass followings.
Yes some gurus abuse that as they are not clear as to what is actually involved in their programs. I think a lot of people stumble when they realize the sheer volume of work needed to get to a certain place, how much tech they will need to embrace and how many man hours go into success and the learning curves involved - both to do with business but also with yourself, as a person. They buy end the result. And no guru will sit there and give a breakdown of the process as this would be enough to put most people off. Yes they say " you will have to do the work" but it is almost a perfunctory disclaimer, covered up in promises or rags to riches. The people that don't see that...can you REALLY change their mind? Maybe, a small % after reading Lex's post will "see the light".
But what confuses is me is those that need this info put in front them, didn't already see it before reading the post?
By the way I think its a great post - it should go out on a blog somewhere and be made viral! I'm sure many people would read it and have their eyes opened. But do you know what would happen as a result? Especially if the author of the post was known? They would instantly get a guru style following. Because that is human nature.
Especially if the "bad" gurus were named - because masses of people that felt they were duped by the mentioned names would all congregate together to tell each other their stories of misfortune...and because naturally in their mind they would feel an affinity with the person that discredits someone they feel has duped them , and therefore that person is now fighting their corner and is their new "go to".
Recently all I have seen on FB is a wave of "anti-gurus" like the Fletcher method. It all works because there will always be people that feel they were wronged by others and rather than accept responsibility and push their ego aside, they would rather get a stroke saying "There, there poor thing, you was conned, its not your fault , you have been manipulated and we will look after you and protect you from those big bad wolves out there".
10 years ago I would have said them " go get a life" and its your own fault you fall for that bullshit. As you get older you realise that actually there is a lot more to it and that some humans are more pliable, gullible , susceptible, vulnerable and impressionable than others. It could be because that are in a certain place in their life ( like mid life crisis for example) , or it could be is that is just the way they are wired, or it could be their learned belief system. Whatever it is , we will NEVER all be the same and it would take masses of people to make a massive change. When it comes to this subject it won't happen, because we are dwelling too deep into peoples brains and the subject is just to complex. Advertising/ marketing will always remain the same, the methods, formats and delivery may change with time - but as soon as people start wising up something else will come out. People will never stop having emotions...and when they do, one needs to ask how human are they?
@SinisterLex I just wanted to say thank you for your post, as I think the discussion that followed is brilliant. I have been lurking for a while and reading stuff, and your post actually made me write something. Perhaps I will make time for an Intro post soon.
haha.
