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NOTABLE! Going "All In"

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Get Right

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I'm prepared to go all-in at any given time. If I've got the "nuts" believe me...you will witness an all-in.

Every other hand requires careful consideration. This is the balance of risk/reward.
 

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vinylawesome

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Relevant, Steve Wynn's way of thinking..

"Wynn himself rarely shoots craps or plays poker anymore, although you could call building billion-dollar hotels a form of high-stakes gambling.

“If you’re good at what you do, it’s a game of skill, not chance,” he told me.

“When it comes to my company’s capital, or my own personal capital, I’m not interested in gambling—I don’t want to fly without a net.

I’m not a risk-taker in the sense of, ‘Let’s give this a shot,’ no, no, no.

We analyze the deals eight ways to Sunday.”

Via: http://www.success.com/article/the-cantankerous-mr-wynn
 

nmalcolm92

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My question is how do you know when your business has failed?
Anyone can delude themselves into thinking it can still work, or turn around... How do you know when to call it quits?
 

StevieB

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I've gone "all-in" before - took a large amount out of my 401k and everything.

A few things about going all in - you need to know what the f#ck you're doing if it's going to work. Sure you may learn along the way. I hadn't read the millionare fastlane or hardly anything on the subject. Had very little sales experience and wasn't even that socially likable at that point. All I knew is someone that had a business previously and that it worked well for them. Buy low and sell high. I quickly found out my product had very little demand despite "loving what I do".

Go all in? Absolutely, but do some research, read some books, talk to people, develop the right habits and be ready to work 100 hours a week and not get paid. If you're mentally prepared for that and accept it by all means go all in. Otherwise you'll just spin your wheels for a while then go right back to what you were doing before you went all in. With a lot less cash.

I did learn a lot and I don't believe you need to just immediately go all-in. The reason that can be effective? Because it forces you to develop the habits you need to survive in that environment. However if you're committed to it you can still develop the necessary mindset and habits and work a full time job. There's much less risk but it's more difficult since your not forced to live off the income you get through a business.

Some people need to throw it all out and go all in. Others can develop the necessary skills without needing to do that. It just depends on who you are and your mentality, discipline and focus. Most people can never make it work.
 

Blitz

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It used to be a common military tactic to cut off any form of retreat for your OWN soldiers because they would fight harder if they knew that the only options were death or victory.

If your ability to eat depends on something you are going to work a whole lot harder than if it is just something you do on Sundays. If you go to the point of no return, your going to have more pressure, and more pressure means you will work harder.

If you are determined to do something, go to the point of no return. That is my interpretation of going "all in."
 

JScott

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Oh yeah? How's that working out for you? Has your super special perfect time come along yet?
It's worked out well for me for a long time across many businesses...

As someone who used to play high-stakes professional poker (very successfully, I might add), I learned early on that going all-in wasn't something to make a habit of. It has it's place, of course, but certainly knowing when -- and when not -- to go all-in makes the difference between a winning and a losing player. If you make a habit of going all-in in negative EV situations, you're going to spend your life broke.

Likewise in business, I've never "lost it all." While I'm confident that I could make it back, my goal is freedom of time, and risking it all means risking my ultimate goal -- if I ever have to start over, I'm going to lose a LOT of time that I'd rather spend doing other things.

In poker, the people who have the "ALL IN!" mentality are the ones who are looking for a quick score -- they see ALL IN as an opportunity to "get rich quick." I tend to see the same thing with many budding entrepreneurs. They think going all-in means quitting college, spending their entire life savings, working 100 hours/week. They get all revved up for a few months, and then reality hits them -- they were running a sprint while the marathon of business and life is going on around them. They realize that they were running on the adrenaline of "going all-in," and then they come crashing down.

I'm not saying to never go all-in in your life, but just like in poker, make sure you know WHY you're going all-in, and make sure you're doing it with positive EV...

And, if you're attitude is "just go all-in," I highly recommend staying away from the poker table... :)
 
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MJ DeMarco

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I've marked the thread Notable, maybe GOLD as it unfolds, some great perspectives and experience here.

Thank you folks for keeping it relatively civil.
 

Captain Jack

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I can't find the video on the Youtube, but there was a story on Shark Tank about a company called Wispots. Basically, the creator came up with an idea to have a kiosk for checking email in the waiting room of doctors' offices. The only problem was that phones are able to do this (though, this technology was in its infancy at that time).

The guy went as all in as you can. He had a family. He mortgaged his house, cleaned out his childrens' college funds, and went hundred of thousands of dollars into debt for what was a pretty bad idea. It's clear that he didn't do a whole lot of due diligence.

So, while I do think that going all-in works (as MJ, AndrewNC, and many others have proven), it could also go very badly if you don't do it the right way.
 

Delmania

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The live or die going all in mentality is good so long as you're the only one you need to support. Once others are relying on you, that mentality is no longer feasible because they will suffer during the downturns. That being said, you can still go all in, mentality like Andy said, and physically after the needs of those who depend on are meet. That means putting in time on the nights and weekends, choosing to spend money not on toys, but on your endeavors.


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Something I didn't expect was for no one to agree on what going all in means. I think I should have given my own definition in the original post.

To me, going all in means only two things; consistency and the ability to evolve. I see alot of people on her assuming that going all in is about using a hammer to solve every problem and not stopping until you break through. As Charlie Munger would say, to a man with a hammer every problem looks like a nail.

You have to be consistent day in and day out but at the same time evolving your path through trial and error. 99% of business fail because of mismanagement and mismanagement stems from ego, which blocks your ability to evolve.

It's a feedback loop that everyone on here needs to put in place in order to be successful. Consistency, evolve, consistency, evolve. It's really that simple.
 

blueoceanblues

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The guy went as all in as you can. He had a family. He mortgaged his house, cleaned out his childrens' college funds, and went hundred of thousands of dollars into debt for what was a pretty bad idea. It's clear that he didn't do a whole lot of due diligence.
Common misunderstanding.

ALL IN has nothing to do with money.
 

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JScott

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Something I didn't expect was for no one to agree on what going all in means. I think I should have given my own definition in the original post.

To me, going all in means only two things; consistency and the ability to evolve.
I don't think most people would define it that way. The term typically means putting yourself in a position where you are fully committing your resources and, if you don't succeed, you lose everything (at least in the U.S.).
 
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Captain Jack

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Something I didn't expect was for no one to agree on what going all in means. I think I should have given my own definition in the original post.

To me, going all in means only two things; consistency and the ability to evolve. I see alot of people on her assuming that going all in is about using a hammer to solve every problem and not stopping until you break through. As Charlie Munger would say, to a man with a hammer every problem looks like a nail.

You have to be consistent day in and day out but at the same time evolving your path through trial and error. 99% of business fail because of mismanagement and mismanagement stems from ego, which blocks your ability to evolve.

It's a feedback loop that everyone on here needs to put in place in order to be successful. Consistency, evolve, consistency, evolve. It's really that simple.
I wouldn't define this as "all-in". To me, "all-in" means that you put yourself into a situation where the only option is to succeed. If you don't succeed, you are completely screwed. You have no backup plan. In the US, you may have to rely on food stamps to survive. Outside of the US, you may die. That's my definition of all-in.

What you describe is simply good business practices. It's what I'm doing right now in my fastlane venture and I certainly wouldn't describe myself as being "all-in".

I don't think most people would define it that way. The term typically means putting yourself in a position where you are fully committing your resources and, if you don't succeed, you lose everything (at least in the U.S.).
Yes, this.
 

AllenCrawley

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SteveO

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Great back and forth in this thread, and I don't want to stifle it. BUT I do want to link to a thread MJ started 2.5 years about this very topic.

https://www.thefastlaneforum.com/community/threads/how-bad-do-you-want-it-enough-to-go-all-in.48502/

Carry on...
And here is a quote from MJ on the topic of the work portion of going "All In".

"I moved to AZ with $900 and a car that didn't have a functional transmission. I shacked up in a studio apartment. I was willing to wash dishes, flip burgers, and drive cabs. I didn't care."

So, "All In" does not necessarily mean shutting down your income stream.

I went completely in when my living expenses were being supported by my business. It took me 2 years from the time I started but it was a worthwhile wait in my circumstance. That was 18 years ago though and I have not had a job since.

Well, not completely true.... I worked for a commercial real estate company once as a part time leasing agent for retail properties. Only to learn the business though...
 
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Supa

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And here is a quote from MJ on the topic of the work portion of going "All In".

"I moved to AZ with $900 and a car that didn't have a functional transmission. I shacked up in a studio apartment. I was willing to wash dishes, flip burgers, and drive cabs. I didn't care."

So, "All In" does not necessarily mean shutting down your income stream.

I went completely in when my living expenses were being supported by my business. It took me 2 years from the time I started but it was a worthwhile wait in my circumstance. That was 18 years ago though and I have not had a job since.

Well, not completely true.... I worked for a commercial real estate company once as a part time leasing agent for retail properties. Only to learn the business though...
^This is the best reply to this topic :)

If you're working on an online business, you need a few things to do that. You need a computer, you need an internet connection, you need money for your domain, server and other things needed to build your business.

MJ created websites for other companies to pay his rent and to support his lifestyle of working on his business. Without a roof above his head and an internet connection plus food (no matter how cheap) he would be in a situation that doesn't support the building of his business.

If you don't have a skill (like webdesign, copywriting, etc.) that you can use to earn money without a job, to support your business, then there's nothing wrong with washing dishes or delivering pizzas to pay your rent and internet connection.

Going All In for me means to quit the job as soon as I am able to support my business without it, and until then work every free minute on it to reach that point as fast as possible.

But to me it doesn't mean to quit my job now to be able to proudly announce "I go All In", just to get kicked out my flat a month later. Because that would put me in a mindset of chasing money, money to get a new home, money to buy food and water, money for an internet connection or a coffee to enjoy free wifi. Those circumstances are not pretty supporting of my goals to build a business that provides value.

Don't get me wrong, I hate working a job. And I wouldn't wait a second to quit it as soon as it is possible for me. But it's something that I have to do to support the creation of my dream life, so I do it.

I mean MJ didn't say "F*ck it, I'm quitting the webdesign work to go All In!", he did it as long as he needed it to support the creation of his dream life, and went All In every other minute of the day that wasn't spent with webdesign work ( feel free to correct me if I'm wrong :) )
 
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I don't think most people would define it that way. The term typically means putting yourself in a position where you are fully committing your resources and, if you don't succeed, you lose everything (at least in the U.S.).
Going all in has nothing to with "material possessions", it's a state of mind. MJ couldn't have eaten Ramon noodles for every meal if he wasn't in that state of mind.

Yes, the end goal is "material possessions" but you have to start with the basics first.
 

Jake

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I think the use of the words "all in" is a bit overplayed in this thread. Is walking away from a $15k-35k a year salary really going all in? Is that not easily replaceable? Not that some aren't leaving larger sums of money. Hell, I walked away from a massive salary a few years ago.

I don't mean to hype up or over emphasis my own doings but when I think of "all in" I think of doing something where there's no chance of an exit or short term exit. Or a massive change in lifestyle

I enlisted in the Navy - All in
I had a kid - All in
I signed a contract to go to Iraq - All in
I signed a contract to go to Afghanistan - All in
I started a business - I'm putting forth a lot of effort but it doesn't have the same light fire to the past this is where I'm going feel to it. Maybe that's the definition of all in to some people but I tend to agree with @andyblack All in is taking care of his kids come hell or high water.

One example of a member of the forum going all in would be giving up your U.S passport. That's an all in move. When you absolutely have no means to go back to your previous life..All In
 
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Iwokeup

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For me, "all in" means that I don't seriously entertain other 'options' for FL success. Laser like focus on our One Thing come Hell or High Water.

Meanwhile, I still continue to grind away at my job so that I CAN focus on this FL journey.

If you don't have your foundation taken care of [food, water, lights/power, internet, family taken care of]...you're not going to be able to really REALLY go all in mentally. Just not possible.

First things First.

Also, I agree with what @JScott said above.
 

W4RHRSE

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Wow! Nothing can be more dangerous or more enlightening than going all in. However... There are instances that going all in may not be appropriate.

Do not jump in water before knowing the depth.

Do not drive a car to it's limit, if you can't drive.

As far as enthusiasm, I would agree. Also in the ability to say "F**k fear!" and move to the next step.

But there HAS to be a plan. If there is no methodical process, you are just spinning your tires. You will get knocked off your course and change directions on a whim.

Ambition, yes! Don't be afraid! F**k fear! Just do it! And all that. But have a plan and stick to it until you know it is not working, then make smart adjustments. If not you are driving a Dodge Viper in the snow (I have, its not entertaining).
 

MJ DeMarco

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"All-in" for me means an obsessive commitment, not necessarily a "do or die" (as in poker) but more like a "do and never stop."
 

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Yes but no. No but yes. Funny how quickly OP's very simple and straightforward message splinters into "It depends upon what the meaning of the word 'is' is".

The only idea to redefine is risk. Is real risk taking an educated guess based on math or doing what you've always done?

I hope MJ's next book hits on emotional i.q. and decision-making because I've come to believe it's 100% mental; market barriers to entry pale in comparison to the artificial ones we make up because of fear.
 
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biggeemac

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"All-in" for me means an obsessive commitment, not necessarily a "do or die" (as in poker) but more like a "do and never stop."
I agree.....MJ beat me to it. On my project, I am "all in" as far as i'm concerned. I haven't quit my day job, I don't spend every single non-day-job moment working on my project, I still spend time with my family, and manage to watch TV sometimes. I have taken a very calculated risk, and even if my plans didn't unfold the way that I have projected, I would still make money. As far as I'm concerned, there are too many folks that are basically throwing a "hail Mary".......it might make sense to them, but I have a family and I can't afford hail Mary's. My business isn't going to go viral and make me an over-night millionaire, and my growth may be a little slower, but I am certain that my day is coming.
 

Yoda

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"Do or do not. There is no try."​

I'm happy to enter this fantastic discourse.

First of all, it's very enlightening to see what the phrase simply means to each person. There is obviously a direct correlation, though perhaps a bit evasive, how each of you have come up with your own conclusions when referencing an "all in" nature.

For this reason, everyone's "all in" should be different. Those of you referencing poker... you're missing your own points! Scottie Nguyen, Phil Helmuth, and Chris Moneymaker will absolutely not go "all in" in every situation even if every other variable was identical. Yes, poker players know when to go "all in," but it's based on their own behavior, past and present, their own perception of the circumstance, and their risk tolerance. What they've actually done is gone "all in" to their profession and committed an insane amount of learning, anguish, and risk to get to where they are.

But see, I gave this particular example a more thorough examination because it helps me showcase my own perception of the "all in" you're each debating.

I, personally, believe going "all in" is a massive commitment towards a positively perceived outcome given a span of time. Three components:
  1. Massive commitment
  2. Positively perceived outcome
  3. Time
We are all going to have our own definition of what "Massive Commitment" might be, but we can probably all agree there is some level of perseverance towards a goal, with the notion we need to give something up (money, time). When you commit to something, you're offering full focused attention in a particular direction.

Obviously, there better be a positively perceived outcome. You're just a dunce if you commit to anything which you don't 'feel' or 'believe' or 'know' there is a light at the end of then tunnel. Look both ways before you cross the road.

Finally, something a few of you have touched in brevity... the time element.

Let's go back to poker. If a poker player goes "all in" on one hand, he is, indeed, risking his tournament entry. The time frame, however, is limited to his tournament entry (assuming we're not talking cash games at the moment). Therefore, if your particular focus is the moment he is in, then he's likely "all in." However, if your particular focus is his career... well, there's always next year, and you better believe he's going to be doing WSOP's, cash games and more until next year's main event. In this case, the hand he went "all in" is no longer much more than a tick on a timeline.

My point being:

You, and only you, can determine your own "all in."

But, you have to measure it with a level of commitment you can sustain, aim it towards a positively perceived outcome, and relentlessly take action for a defined amount of time.

Commit, aim, don't stop.

That's my "all in" folks.
 

happybhoy

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This is a general announcement for all you little girls with your toe in the water..

Go all in.

Not in an hour, not next week, not after you finish talking to some broad your trying to screw. Lets talk about something important.

Go all in. What does all in mean? That means no plan b, willing to lose every cent you have in front of everyone you know. Worked for me.. Will it work for you? I don't know but you'll be dead soon so no need to worry.

Cheers
For me, I'm keeping my job until I see some signs that this might work. Working 40 hours a week slowlane certainly isn't slowing me down.
I'm going all in emotionally, I've had many half arsed tries but I'm taking this idea to the end.
Quiting your job might add a pressure to succeed but I'm creating the pressure by making it public that I'm trying to start a business. I'm not willing to look like a failure, so it gives me motivation to work and make the sacrifices.
"All in" to me means getting into the mindset that failure isn't an option.
 

JScott

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Going all in has nothing to with "material possessions", it's a state of mind.
That's fine...but that's not what you implied in your original post when you said:

"That means no plan b, willing to lose every cent you have in front of everyone you know."

My point is that there are often times when you *shouldn't* be willing to lose every cent you have (I can't imagine a situation these days where I'd be willing to risk all the assets I currently have). Just because you're not willing to lose every cent you have doesn't mean you are running your business sub-optimally...
 

nradam123

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Ah man, I can't believe people are saying not to go all in.
Obviously do not takes risks that are so big that you will not be able to feed your 3 month year old baby or something like that. Or taking a loan so big that you get bankrupt for life. I think the key to taking risk is to take risks really big but if you fail you should be able to get back up and play again.

And going all in basically means immersion. Don't confuse it with taking risks.
It just means that you are working so hard that you are not sleeping much, you are pissing off your friends and family and you are always grinding hard.

I think Gary Vaynerchuk said he always goes all in. So when he is working he works 18 hours a day as you can see in his Daily Vee shows and when he is taking a vacation he is sleeping on a beach and he wont wake up even if someone stabs on his chest several times.
 
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458

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That's fine...but that's not what you implied in your original post when you said:

"That means no plan b, willing to lose every cent you have in front of everyone you know."

My point is that there are often times when you *shouldn't* be willing to lose every cent you have (I can't imagine a situation these days where I'd be willing to risk all the assets I currently have). Just because you're not willing to lose every cent you have doesn't mean you are running your business sub-optimally...
Your missing the point entirely. Keeping a Zen like state when the "possibility" of losing everything and being embarrassed infront of everyone is what separates the Jorge Perez's of the world from the common folk.

I don't expect everyone to get it.. This is certainly not for the masses.
 

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I think Gary Vaynerchuk said he always goes all in. So when he is working he works 18 hours a day as you can see in his Daily Vee shows and when he is taking a vacation he is sleeping on a beach and he wont wake up even if someone stabs on his chest several times.
Hmm, working so hard that all you can do is sleep on your time off. Sounds like such a dream. :cookoo:
 

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