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MTF

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I mean using AI to write an entire book would be wrong or no?

And why would it be wrong? Why think in terms of right and wrong at all? It's a tool like any other, just more high-tech.

There's an AI tool to generate images:


Would it be wrong to use it to create art and post it on your Instagram? Would it make you an immoral artist if you became popular doing this? It's you using the tool, you aren't plagiarizing anyone's work and you're providing the prompts, so you are still creating, just in a more efficient way.

Or if an Etsy entrepreneur uses DALL-E to create an armchair in the shape of an avocado and then manufactures it, are they immoral, too, because it was AI that provided the ideas that helped them create the right design?

Are you hoping to start pumping out AI books by the dozens? I hope you chronicle this.

Pumping out books alone is not a good strategy. I'm not a fan of "pumping out" low-quality books. And Jarvis can't write the entire book. It's more of a brainstorming tool and you still need to fact-check it and give it your own style.

Also, you need some marketing as mass-publishing books alone without any promotion won't work.

If I decide to work with it more extensively (quite likely), I'll chronicle it in my progress thread on the inside. But the point is to write more efficiently and write better, not let AI run wild, produce somewhat readable books and put out hundreds of them.
 

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And why would it be wrong? Why think in terms of right and wrong at all? It's a tool like any other, just more high-tech.

There's an AI tool to generate images:


Would it be wrong to use it to create art and post it on your Instagram? Would it make you an immoral artist if you became popular doing this? It's you using the tool, you aren't plagiarizing anyone's work and you're providing the prompts, so you are still creating, just in a more efficient way.

Or if an Etsy entrepreneur uses DALL-E to create an armchair in the shape of an avocado and then manufactures it, are they immoral, too, because it was AI that provided the ideas that helped them create the right design?



Pumping out books alone is not a good strategy. I'm not a fan of "pumping out" low-quality books. And Jarvis can't write the entire book. It's more of a brainstorming tool and you still need to fact-check it and give it your own style.

Also, you need some marketing as mass-publishing books alone without any promotion won't work.

If I decide to work with it more extensively (quite likely), I'll chronicle it in my progress thread on the inside. But the point is to write more efficiently and write better, not let AI run wild, produce somewhat readable books and put out hundreds of them.
I enjoy thinking about right and wrong, it helps me to become a better artist. I believe that art is man reflecting back the glory of God. I also love talking out both sides of an idea or, as many sides of an idea as I can before it’s bedtime.

If art is defined differently, like say “stuff I can cobble together to amuse ppl and encourage them to pay me money” instead of a serving the whole, helping people, encouraging unity, truth, virtue, and nobility.. hm. This convo depends entirely on how you define words like immoral, art, technology, and work.

I mean, is using Photoshop immoral because it doesn’t use real brushes? I love photoshop.. but I don’t expect Photoshop to come up with ideas... does that make it moral because I’m bringing my own ideas to life? Am I just being old? I don’t know.

Everyone knows when an actor is displaying his art, he’s on stage. He’s not lying. He’s acting. There’s a difference.

Will all the books “created” or helped substantially by AI be listed as such? Do these robot authors intend to tell me that they constructed 50% of the book?
 

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@MTF it was great to read your tone and excitement level change in the thread. Thanks for sharing about that new tool. I'm going to check it out at some point.
 

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If art is defined differently, like say “stuff I can cobble together to amuse ppl and encourage them to pay me money” instead of a serving the whole, helping people, encouraging unity, truth, virtue, and nobility.. hm.
A lot of contemporary art is already kind of defined that way—look at Maurizio Cattelan's $120k banana, for example.
 

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I haven't read the whole thread yet, but I've been a copywriter for the past 8-9 months, earning good money.

I stumbled (well, more like force-entered) into the video game writing industry recently after contacting an important person in the space. I won't say who, but they're one of the most successful and well-known video game writers. We had a nice conversation over email.

I used said interaction with that person as leverage to get a writing role in a VERY big video game project.

And although it's a community project (meaning a mod i.e additional content for the original game), it's amassed a huge following and interest in it.

But here's where it gets, well, interesting.

This project was actually completed and released on Christmas. It was deemed a "technological marvel" considering the extensive use of the game engine, but most fans were NOT happy.

Why? Because the writing, for a lack of better wording, sucked.

So I contacted and joined the development team for this project intending to become one of the people who would help them take care of their biggest pitfall - the atrocious, cringy writing.

The reason I did so is because game studios are constantly on the lookout for talent (whether that's coding, graphic design, or writing) and it's not uncommon for people to be recruited following such a project.

Especially from such a high-profile one.. and especially after everyone knows the writing sucks and you volunteered your time to redeem the project in the fans' eyes.

And yes, you bet I'm using that as leverage to contact the big boy game studios in the future and turning this fastlane!

Oh, and it's not just about the money - I've always wanted to get into game development. I just had no idea I would be a writer.
 
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Ok, I just want to share an alternative perspective.

This AI stuff is making me so happy. For YEARS all of my friends and all of my homeschool friends and all of my classically taught friends and all of my.. ok you get the point, have been complaining about how weak and pathetic and vapid the vocabulary on the internet is. I mean, to rank an article it's best to aim for FOURTH grade reading level?!?!? WTF. It’s like we’ve been given the single most powerful ability in thousands of years and what do we use it for? Porn and googling what time it is. Seriously?

and now.. now with this?? I’m cackling with joy. AI will spell the doom to ANYTHING on the Internet. Not today.. not next week.. but it’s coming. Why the ever-living f*ck would I buy a book that somebody used a machine to make?

if you can’t trust a single word or picture or identity that’s on your device.. the only thing you CAN trust is real ppl you meet in your own community, who write books, who make beautiful things, who grow real food NOT laden with pesticides or destroying waterways, people who care about their reputation.

Small communities will thrive, again.

Keep feeding the machine man, make it grow. The faster it grows the faster the world will get through this bullshit and on to the next era of ignorance and the next great Renaissance.

I totes wanna go buy a printer now.. ;)

A lot of people don't want good quality art (whether it's music, paintings, books etc), they want to be entertained and to fit in.

Aslong as something is popular, even if it is trash, people will want it.
 

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What are in your opinion the best Fastlane opportunities for writers? Which opportunities are exhausted and which ones may still have a bright future? Is writing still a lucrative skill or should writers consider it more of a supplemental skill?

I've been in the self-publishing industry for the past seven years. It's no longer such a gold mine as it was in the past. With no strong competition for Amazon on the horizon, it's becoming more and more of a business dependent on just one company, with thousands of competitors both corporate (traditional publishers) as well as individuals (who often flood the market with cheap, low quality ghostwritten books and manage to game the Amazon's system).

I'm wondering if writers today should still first consider going into book writing/publishing or perhaps try something else and stay away from books.

What are your thoughts on various business models for writers? How would you monetize your writing skill in the most Fastlane way possible?

The way I see it there are three main paths:
  • book publishing - crowded, Amazon-dependent, you can sometimes spend months working on a book only for it to fail miserably (there's no easy way to test a product before creating it),
  • copywriting - may become a career instead of a business, though some copywriters earn incredible amounts of money (like Jay Abraham who's technically more of a consultant),
  • blogging/courses/other digital products not sold as books - this requires a personal brand and narrowing your expertise to one main topic. Also, writing seems to be more of a side skill here, with marketing experience and personal branding being the primary skills needed.
Any other thoughts you have, feel free to post them here. I'd like this thread to become a regular discussion for writers on the forum.

Tagging @ChickenHawk, @MJ DeMarco, @Bekit.
I've been published for more than ten years and this is not the way to go. I have great reviews and some hard core fans. But it doesn't matter. I don't make enough each month to pay the electric bill.
 

MTF

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I've been published for more than ten years and this is not the way to go. I have great reviews and some hard core fans. But it doesn't matter. I don't make enough each month to pay the electric bill.

Traditionally or self-published? I assume it's a large niche with crazy competition or a very tiny one without much scale?
 

FlorianR

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On the copywriting side, the value is in leveraging the skill. A good copywriter can reach six-figures writing copy. They can do it with a single client if they work with the right client. Since they can only write so much, they have to scale into an agency and leverage other writers, strike a different kind of deal with the client, or expand into different kinds of business models to go beyond.

Some business models that are viable for copywriters to reach the fastlane:

Agency
Requires building a team, and expanding your skillset beyond copywriting. Also requires taking on a leadership role, so it isn't a solo-person business model.

Courses/Coaching
If your copywriting is good, then you can sell your own courses, coaching, and training even to people who have never heard of you. This includes courses and coaching that are not about copywriting. This can potentially reach the millionaire mark before you have to scale into a team of copywriters, VAs and salespeople. You can also team up with companies that need to offer writer training. That way they can sell your training for you as an affiliate. This path requires taking on additional leadership/coaching roles (usually).

External Business Model
A copywriter can build a solo business that is unrelated to copywriting, but is fueled with their own good copy and that can become a huge business without hiring a bunch of people depending on the model. This is the only path where I think a copywriter can "do what they love" while building a big business and not having to go deep into other roles beyond general entrepreneurship skills. They will still probably need to work with a team of freelancers at some point.

All of these leverage the skill of copywriting, but with the exception of direct client work, they're mostly leveraging the skill for other purposes.

As for books/ebooks, I think there's room for niche competition with Amazon. To me, it would be valuable to see platforms focused on specific genres where books are vetted for quality, and authors have opportunities to earn and grow. Can't beat Amazon's name directly, but you might take up the "Erotic Romance Store" position in the market mind.

I’m a copywriter and plan on hitting the 100-200k/yr mark solo with my own clients within 1-2 years. From there I’ll probably think about starting a scalable external business, I don’t necessarily want to scale a copywriting agency. Maybe I’ll invent a tool that serves freelance copywriters or agencies in some way as I’ll have familiarity with that industry and will be able to identify big problems in that target market. Kinda like MJ did when he figured out there was a huge opportunity/problem in the limo industry he used to work in
 

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Maybe I’ll invent a tool that serves freelance copywriters or agencies in some way as I’ll have familiarity with that industry and will be able to identify big problems in that target market. Kinda like MJ did when he figured out there was a huge opportunity/problem in the limo industry he used to work in

Seems like this is already happening in the marketplace with these AI tools and other copywriting assistants.
 

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I’m in shock at what you posted @MTF from Jarvis.ai - unreal. Will start playing around out of curiosity. My mind is blown, that’s not a human!
 

FlorianR

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Seems like this is already happening in the marketplace with these AI tools and other copywriting assistants.

yeah I’ve seen some AI tools around. Like I said it’s just an idea. Or maybe I can do a business model/offer no one else is doing. Like you said, you don’t necessarily have to invent something, you can simply identify a problem current solutions don’t address and address it. I’d still have to determine what is even viable in that market by doing more research and testing it/ getting soft and hard evidence
 
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MTF

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I’m in shock at what you posted @MTF from Jarvis.ai - unreal. Will start playing around out of curiosity. My mind is blown, that’s not a human!

I'm still blown away by what it produces. I can't stop playing with it and I'm so impressed by all the opportunities AI presents that I'm seriously considering retraining myself...

As for writing, I've been playing with it a bit more for a non-fiction project. It's extremely good at coming up with plausible BS. It sounds like a real fact but then you check it and it's either completely wrong or misattributed. For example, it gave me a quote and said one person said it while it was someone else in a completely different context. But sometimes it does give you some useful, true facts and that can really help write faster and/or expand on what you already have. Its ability to figure out from context what you want it to write is incredible.

So far it looks like it's actually better at fiction than non-fiction because in fiction it doesn't matter if it's true so it can help create some very original twists, characters, etc. The scenes it creates can be very emotional and require very little editing to actually be used.

As for non-fiction, I mostly used it for some article introductions and general brainstorming. It's a little bit time-consuming at times because you have to double-check everything concrete it says (as mentioned above).

I just got an invite for Sudowrite and will test it next. It's an AI tool specifically for fiction writers.
 

MTF

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58.4% of the respondents said they've been reading more since the start of the pandemic. Curiously, the winning genres that gained most interest are romance and non-fiction. And in non-fiction specifically, memoirs, investigative political works, and antiracism books so stuff that you can't really turn into a real business.

As for formats, audiobooks and ebooks gained more popularity.

Hardly a super conclusive survey but interesting nonetheless.
 

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I'm still blown away by what it produces. I can't stop playing with it and I'm so impressed by all the opportunities AI presents that I'm seriously considering retraining myself...

As for writing, I've been playing with it a bit more for a non-fiction project. It's extremely good at coming up with plausible BS. It sounds like a real fact but then you check it and it's either completely wrong or misattributed. For example, it gave me a quote and said one person said it while it was someone else in a completely different context. But sometimes it does give you some useful, true facts and that can really help write faster and/or expand on what you already have. Its ability to figure out from context what you want it to write is incredible.

So far it looks like it's actually better at fiction than non-fiction because in fiction it doesn't matter if it's true so it can help create some very original twists, characters, etc. The scenes it creates can be very emotional and require very little editing to actually be used.

As for non-fiction, I mostly used it for some article introductions and general brainstorming. It's a little bit time-consuming at times because you have to double-check everything concrete it says (as mentioned above).

I just got an invite for Sudowrite and will test it next. It's an AI tool specifically for fiction writers.
Great intel, thanks for the warning. As you know I write articles for my industry/business and I cannot misattribute a quote without losing all credibility. But I am often stuck at how to restructure my own work and this looks like a way to speed up brainstorming, almost like having a pal who's a writer do some work for you but you can't fully trust him! Haha.

The world we live in these days... wow.
 

MTF

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Great intel, thanks for the warning. As you know I write articles for my industry/business and I cannot misattribute a quote without losing all credibility. But I am often stuck at how to restructure my own work and this looks like a way to speed up brainstorming, almost like having a pal who's a writer do some work for you but you can't fully trust him! Haha.

The world we live in these days... wow.

Yes this isn't for getting quotes at all and you have to be careful with the facts and numbers it provides. But the general structure and its suggestions can be incredibly useful.

I gave Jarvis just the paragraph above, gave it the title of the article "How AI can help you write faster" and entered as description "An article on how AI can help with writing". Then I hit "compose."

Here's what it wrote next:

Over the past few years, artificial intelligence has undergone a massive boom. It's arguably not just benefiting tech companies but people all over the world too. With AI building blocks such as natural language processing (NLP) being used in many applications - from chatbots to voice assistants like Alexa and Siri, there is no surprise that AI tools have made their way into other industries too. Writing for a blog or publication has been changed forever with the rise of what is known as an "AI ghostwriter". This piece will give you an insight into what the technology can do for you and how it works. But first...what does this mean? According to Wikipedia :

A ghostwriter is a hired person who writes books, articles, stories,

This is all factually correct, interesting, and so well written you could take it as it is and just keep writing. I still can't believe it's not just copied from some article. But the crazy thing is that it IS NOT. It's completely unique, generated by AI based on the context and what it knows about the topic.

I almost feel like a mythomaniac giving these examples here because it really sounds like BS that it's not written by a human and is not plagiarized from somewhere else.

This is such a huge game changer and these tools are only beginning to emerge. The ones who learn them today will win big in the future.

It's like Kevin Kelly said:

“This is not a race against the machines. If we race against them, we lose. This is a race with the machines. You’ll be paid in the future based on how well you work with robots … It is inevitable. Let the robots take our jobs, and let them help us dream up new work that matters.”
 

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I'm still blown away by what it produces. I can't stop playing with it and I'm so impressed by all the opportunities AI presents that I'm seriously considering retraining myself...
What are you thinking of retraining for?
 

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Yes this isn't for getting quotes at all and you have to be careful with the facts and numbers it provides. But the general structure and its suggestions can be incredibly useful.

I gave Jarvis just the paragraph above, gave it the title of the article "How AI can help you write faster" and entered as description "An article on how AI can help with writing". Then I hit "compose."

Here's what it wrote next:



This is all factually correct, interesting, and so well written you could take it as it is and just keep writing. I still can't believe it's not just copied from some article. But the crazy thing is that it IS NOT. It's completely unique, generated by AI based on the context and what it knows about the topic.

I almost feel like a mythomaniac giving these examples here because it really sounds like BS that it's not written by a human and is not plagiarized from somewhere else.

This is such a huge game changer and these tools are only beginning to emerge. The ones who learn them today will win big in the future.

It's like Kevin Kelly said:

“This is not a race against the machines. If we race against them, we lose. This is a race with the machines. You’ll be paid in the future based on how well you work with robots … It is inevitable. Let the robots take our jobs, and let them help us dream up new work that matters.”
Thank you for talking about the Jarvis.AI . I had tried it last month on free trial but didn't take the time to learn it. Dismissed it without fully understanding it.

I started using it again yesterday and it is a game changer. I'm currently using it to answer questions on Quora. It takes me 10-15 minutes to create a 300-800 word response that's pretty decent.

It really does make it easy to seem like a professional. I realized today if I take a little bit more time in learning the software the answers I create can also be used as future blog posts. It's realistic to expect to spend 30 minutes creating a 1,000 blog post.
 

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For anyone interested in the data for Jarvis/ conversion.ai, I tracked my stats the past two days.

I answered 15 Quora questions for a total of 6,211 words. It took me 2 hours and 5 minutes total. (I took breaks but stopped the timer)

Here are two examples of what I wrote. They aren't perfect but as a beginner writer it's a lot better than what I would have been able to do on my own. These took a max of 15 minutes each to write.

I see myself using this software in the future to write lead magnets/ mini ebooks. It's also great for blog posts. The better the content/questions you feed it, the better the response/output.

I'm using the $130/month version. Not sure if there is a difference between that and the $120/month version.

I've already gotten my money's worth. Hiring a ghostwriter at $.04 cents a word would have cost $250. Saving me $130 and this is only day 2 of using it.

Ethics: Using this software has felt like cheating. It's almost too easy. At the same time, with 7 million blog posts being written everyday there's no way to be 100% original. Even if I wrote something by hand it would probably sound like the 1000 other blog posts on the same topic. The content produced passes plagiarism checks so it's not stealing.

I'm going to gain more experience and invest a little more time in each post to produce quality content.
 

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LifeDeathTime

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Been playing with Jarvis.ai for less than an hour and my mind is completely, utterly BLOWN.
That's what I'm saying.

I'm in the middle of putting together a case study for this forum on some results I've been getting from this.

Will share soon.
 

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I'm still blown away by what it produces. I can't stop playing with it and I'm so impressed by all the opportunities AI presents that I'm seriously considering retraining myself...
If anyone isn't using the assistance of AI in -
- Copywriting (human persuasion is all patterns, humans aren't as different as we like to believe)
- Content Writing (10-100x faster at the same quality, if not better in many cases)
- Ad buying (Facebook, Google, etc. - you get better results by feeding their networks the right inputs and defining what you want out of it than you could ever get manually. I'm seeing this over multiple millions in monthly ad spend from clients. Big-tech in-house algorithms and systems know their users and behaviors far better than we ever could.)

...then you're falling behind and pissing into the wind.

That's like believing you're going to beat Deep Blue in a chess match, just because you're a good chess player and you believe "the individual creativity of the human being can never be topped". Lmao, good f*cking luck.

In '97 it took a specialized supercomputer to beat the best player. Now, chess programs running on cheap hardware - like mobile phones - defeat even the strongest human players.

I wouldn't be surprised if that annoying @robertwills guy was an AI writing bot being run to simply cause outrage on this forum.
I mean, "Thirty-one OpenAI researchers and engineers presented the original May 28, 2020 paper introducing GPT-3.... In their May 28, 2020 paper, the researchers described in detail the potential "harmful effects of GPT-3"[4] which include "misinformation, spam, phishing, abuse of legal and governmental processes, fraudulent academic essay writing and social engineering pretexting".

If you disagree, that's fine, I just picture this -
head in sand.jpg
 
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I said it doesn't matter. If it did, I wouldn't be working on a six-figure copywriting deal right now. It matters even less for creatives.
I've got nothing but respect for you @Lex DeVille . I made multiple hundreds of thousands directly after reading some of your threads back when you spoke about Odesk (pre Upwork) around ~2014/15.
(Old fastlane account)

That being said, this doesn't make any sense to me. I say it matters more than ever.

Working on a six-figure copywriting deal has nothing to do with the fact that, as of last year there's publicly available A.I. systems that are 10 times better than what was available before. Literally 10x. The next best thing was Microsoft's natural language-based system and it had 10 times less data points than openAIs. (And getting better exponentially)

That's a miniscule copywriting deal in comparison to what any of these major companies are now, and are going to be, putting into these systems.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not down playing your personal success, I'm just saying that, for example - people were still buying Yellow Page ads when Google search ads were pennies on the dollar (2000-2010). Sure, you could still make them work for a while, even when it was obvious that it was going to be obsolete soon.

Looking back, if you could give somebody advice in the early-mid 2000s knowing what we know now, you'd say stop putting anything into yellow pages and put everything you have into Google ads

That's what I'm saying now.

If you're manually doing any sort of writing, start leveraging AI writing assistance immediately.

Especially for creative writers. I agree with @MTF and the quote from KK - The future is going to be predicated on how humans work with machines. People can fight it and stubbornly argue against it, but I think that's the same mindset as the people who thought the internet would never replace the yellow pages.

Saying "it doesn't matter" is short-sighted advice IMHO
 

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I bought a month subscription to Jarvis's Boss Mode and played around with it for a bit. I'm a content writer, and wow, this is going to save me so much time!

The output takes some editing and fact-checking, but man, there's nothing like typing "write a funny story about [article's argument]" and getting one ready for the article.

Also, getting the AI to write an extra sentence or two to unblock me when I feel stuck is another huge timesaver.
 

Lex DeVille

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I've got nothing but respect for you @Lex DeVille . I made multiple hundreds of thousands directly after reading some of your threads back when you spoke about Odesk (pre Upwork) around ~2014/15.
(Old fastlane account)

Okay, first of all, that's badass. Thanks for sharing haha.

That being said, this doesn't make any sense to me. I say it matters more than ever.

To me, it doesn't matter because we're talking about art and personal preferences. Not for everything of course. In copywriting we're not selling art (unless you are selling art). In fiction, it is art.

When people buy fiction, they're buying into a personal brand, even when they're buying from a pseudonym author. People buy from Steven King because it is Steven King. So even if something can replicate Steven King and even if the writing is better, they will still buy from Steven King. But who knows, Steven King might use AI too.

Even if AI can simulate Joe Rogan's voice and mind indistinguishably, I still want to listen to the real Joe Rogan, and I don't think Joe Rogan will replace himself even if he has the option.

But all of that is almost another topic.

The reason I said it doesn't matter, is because you can invest in understanding AI, AND you can make a lot of money with writing across the next five (maybe even 10) years too.

Five years ago I thought nobody would need to write in five years. Within those five years, countless people became six, seven, probably eight-figure earners from their writing. How many others did not become anything because they assumed AI would make it not worth it?

It's easy to predict that AI will advance a LOT, and even over a particularly short period. What isn't as easy to predict is how much or how soon people will care.

Someone can make money now while also betting on AI. It's not this or that. I just think it would be silly not to write if that's what you want to do because you can still do well with it now, even if that may not last forever, and through brand identity you can still be relevant even if your writing is not.

Everything in business is about leverage, whether it is machines, brands, or something else. So I don't think we disagree, we're just looking at different possibilities across different ranges of time.
 

Andy Black

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Can that AI thing summarise well? It seems quite verbose.

I’m a fan of one liners and my goal is to get to the aha moment in as few words as possible.
 

Madame Peccato

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Can that AI thing summarise well? It seems quite verbose.

I’m a fan of one liners and my goal is to find to get to the aha moment in as few words as possible.

It has a feature called "Text Summarizer" and another called "Explain it to a child". Here's what I got by inputting the last text @MTF generated:

1627635720042.png
 

Madame Peccato

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Pretty sure we'll be able to leverage a "Written by ACTUAL human beings!" USP real soon.
Can't wait to slap "Made in Italy" on my first book
 

LifeDeathTime

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How many others did not become anything because they assumed AI would make it not worth it?
Fair point. I agree, doing anything is far better than doing nothing.

I've actually been fighting this worry myself in the back of my mind. I'm still taking massive action, but some little part of me is worried that it's all for not.

If this technology truly is exponential, and even though it just became available to the public within the last year, I don't even want to imagine what someone or some entity is doing with hundreds of millions or billions of dollars in resources with this technology.
So I don't think we disagree, we're just looking at different possibilities across different ranges of time.
100%. We don't disagree at all.
It's purely based on the time perspective we're taking.

If you haven't done anything to date , just getting started is most important.

If you're actively cranking out content, and building a "content system" to detach your time from your business system, start allocating some portion of your time to researching, understanding, testing, and leveraging these systems.

I'm not a big fan of worrying about the future at all, unless you can do something in the present moment that will alter your trajectory
 

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