Ask Me Anything About App Business (100+ Apps, 10M+ Downloads, 1 Liquidity Event)

[LeoistheSun]

Hey @BrooklynHustle I had one other question.

I see that the App Store and Google Play charge 30%. I think it goes down to 20% after 1 year right? Something like that with monthly cost users.

To be honest, this still sounds like a lot. Are you aware of a way to go around this? Like have your app on the Android/Apple store allow a free trial and then require a login (which you pay though your website to activate), thus avoiding the 30% fee?

Thanks!

 

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[BrooklynHustle]

How do you track advanced user interactions and insights?

Pretty badly worded question so let me give some context. I'm developing a marketplace platform, which will have both a native iOS & Android app. There is a long list of partners who will be listed on our platform. My goal is to track as many actionable insights when it comes to users interacting with the app. Currently integrating with Mixpanel on a bunch of data points but I'm curious on how you would approach this? I'm being deliberately vague on the market but if you need more context I'd be happy to share that by PM.

It's bad, I know... but I do not get as deep into the analytics as I should. I usually just plug in Google Analytics and measure a few basic things. I am sure you are doing more than I do with mixpanel

Share with the group, only as much as you're comfortable with... I would like for this discussion to help as many members as possible

 

[BrooklynHustle]

Wanted to chime in here, have some prior experience in this world:

A lot of this depends on the context of how large your app and your team is. Only get advanced if you have people who can make sense of the data and a team that can build/execute on it (mobile also adds execution time).

If you are just starting out, focus on key screens, flows, & conversions. Ultimately there are only a couple of real metrics that you and your customers will care about, focus on getting those right first.

I was at a big company, tracked so much stuff, and I helped solo clients build from the ground up, so much tracking, but in the end, not enough resources to act on everything, and everyone mostly cared only about a handful of metrics/actions.

This is a good call. As with anything... 80/20

 

[ljb7]

Wanted to chime in here, have some prior experience in this world:

A lot of this depends on the context of how large your app and your team is. Only get advanced if you have people who can make sense of the data and a team that can build/execute on it (mobile also adds execution time).

If you are just starting out, focus on key screens, flows, & conversions. Ultimately there are only a couple of real metrics that you and your customers will care about, focus on getting those right first.

I was at a big company, tracked so much stuff, and I helped solo clients build from the ground up, so much tracking, but in the end, not enough resources to act on everything, and everyone mostly cared only about a handful of metrics/actions.

Appreciate the response. A close friend is a data scientist so will be extrapolating the data for us to turn it into actionable info.

I've put a great deal of time and effort into the UX & UI.

Because of the nature of the platform/service I'm releasing, I know there will be a ton of value in the data side of things. At the same time, it's probably a better idea to focus on this in the longer term rather than before launch.

 

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[BrooklynHustle]

Hey man, love the thread, and really appreciate the insights.

You mentioned a liquidity event. Did you seek out a buyer or did a buyer reach out to you?

What was the process like? How did you figure out your sale price? Any insights would be appreciated!

It was all facilitated via a broker who is part of my extended community of independent developers. He had approached me to explore the possibility of a sale a year or 2 earlier and I passed on that. He approached me again with a potential buyer and this time we did the deal.

The biggest thing that buyers at deals of this are looking at is monthly recurring revenue. How much do you have, how long is the history, how stable is it etc. Beyond that they also look at if you have any special IP or value add assets such as email lists, large social followings, etc.

Essentially the sale price is calculated as a multiple of your recurring revenues. The better your systems and supporting assets... the more your business runs like a well oiled machine where you can easily add fuel ($$$) to the fire to make it predictably grow, the higher the multiple and the value.

I'd say the process was pretty painless, all things considered. Due diligence took us about a month to get all the papers and files in order before they hit me with the big wire & champagne popped

 

[BrooklynHustle]

ok i have concrete question:

How important is it to add Leaderboards to a casual game app initial release?

Not very. Super simple to do though if you are using the standard leaderboards the platforms provide... so might as well. A custom leaderboard like the kind you see in "Words With Friends" might take some more effort.

What about background music?

Many popular casual games forego music altogether and just have ambient sounds.

 

[LeoistheSun]

Designing for Subscription Success - WWDC 2017 - Videos - Apple Developer

Good article on designing apps with subscriptions. Theirs alot you can do that I never knew!!

 

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[pmaloneus]

Essentially the sale price is calculated as a multiple of your recurring revenues.

Thanks for the response and insightful help!

Yup exactly what I was thinking. If you are okay with, would you mind sharing what your multiple was (not sale price). If not, all good. I'm relatively familiar with saas multiple calculations, but less so on the app platform side.

The IP point you made is interesting, knowing what you know now, would you focus on any one part of your business (to grow) that could have helped you increase you multiple?

 

[BrooklynHustle]

Thanks for the response and insightful help!

Yup exactly what I was thinking. If you are okay with, would you mind sharing what your multiple was (not sale price). If not, all good. I'm relatively familiar with saas multiple calculations, but less so on the app platform side.

The IP point you made is interesting, knowing what you know now, would you focus on any one part of your business (to grow) that could have helped you increase you multiple?

I don't remember exactly, but somewhere between 2 - 2.5X annual, which was fair for what I brought to the table.... which, boiled down, was essentially recurring revenue streams and not much else

These days my approach is to look more at actual business problems rather than just looking at how I can turn an app into revenue... there is far more value in taking this kind of lens

Another thing I will say is that subscriptions are awesome because customers keep on paying you and revenue compounds.

 

[luniac]

Not very. Super simple to do though if you are using the standard leaderboards the platforms provide... so might as well. A custom leaderboard like the kind you see in "Words With Friends" might take some more effort.

Many popular casual games forego music altogether and just have ambient sounds.

thank you.

 

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[BrooklynHustle]

thank you.

 

[LeoistheSun]

Hey @BrooklynHustle I am making an app that has pictures in it. I was wondering if you knew what type of photos I can use or should use? Its an app that has tons of photos already in it and I am unsure on what type/size etc. can you help? Like what is the recommended size for Apple Store?

 

[BrooklynHustle]

Hey @BrooklynHustle I am making an app that has pictures in it. I was wondering if you knew what type of photos I can use or should use? Its an app that has tons of photos already in it and I am unsure on what type/size etc. can you help? Like what is the recommended size for Apple Store?

In terms of file format, PNG and JPG are usually the standards.

As far as image sizes, there really is no standard. The way that this works is that each device has a screen dimensions (iOS Quick Reference for iPhone, iPad, and Apple Watch) and your image will take up a certain amount of the screen based on the image dimensions. That said if you need to do things like zoom in, then you would need a higher resolution than if the image was just going to remain the same size the whole time, so that it does not look blurry when you zoom in.

The one thing that you do want to make sure of is that you minimize file size... Get each image to take up as little memory as possible while still looking good so that you are not causing the user any memory problems or making it so that your app takes an unnecessary amount of time and space to download. There are image optimizer programs & sites you can use for doing this (for example Free Image Optimizer - Compress and resize photos)

Hope I answered your question, but let me know...

 

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[LeoistheSun]

In terms of file format, PNG and JPG are usually the standards.

As far as image sizes, there really is no standard. The way that this works is that each device has a screen dimensions (iOS Quick Reference for iPhone, iPad, and Apple Watch) and your image will take up a certain amount of the screen based on the image dimensions. That said if you need to do things like zoom in, then you would need a higher resolution than if the image was just going to remain the same size the whole time, so that it does not look blurry when you zoom in.

The one thing that you do want to make sure of is that you minimize file size... Get each image to take up as little memory as possible while still looking good so that you are not causing the user any memory problems or making it so that your app takes an unnecessary amount of time and space to download. There are image optimizer programs & sites you can use for doing this (for example Free Image Optimizer - Compress and resize photos)

Hope I answered your question, but let me know...

Thank you! You did. So I need to make my pictures in 9:16 and 3:4. Just gotta figure out the right resolution to allow some zooming-in.

How long would it take to learn coding to make an app that basically had a bunch of buttons and photos? Then perhaps I could have someone else code specific functionality.

 

[luniac]

Thank you! You did. So I need to make my pictures in 9:16 and 3:4. Just gotta figure out the right resolution to allow some zooming-in.

How long would it take to learn coding to make an app that basically had a bunch of buttons and photos? Then perhaps I could have someone else code specific functionality.

buttons and photos is not very complicated.
What your buttons do when clicked could be complicated, but i'm sure u can't share that secret lol

 

[LeoistheSun]

buttons and photos is not very complicated.
What your buttons do when clicked could be complicated, but i'm sure u can't share that secret lol

It goes to another photo. Like so. I have about 600-3000 photos potentially.

 

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[luniac]

It goes to another photo. Like so. I have about 600-3000 photos potentially.

sounds very very simple.
like brooklynhustle said, main issue is memory and app size.
I have an app with around 400 images, 20mb on android. All images are compressed and a mix of 256x256,512x512. I programmed it so that only 1 image is in RAM at a time. Before loading new image i unload old image from memory.

If you images are high resolution, and if there's a ton of them, consider downloading the images from the cloud at runtime as needed.
this way ur app can be published without any images, so size will be tiny. But u will require constant internet to use app obviously.
If i had to do that, i'd use google firebase storage or something like that.

 

[LeoistheSun]

If the images were like 256kb is that too large?

 

[BrooklynHustle]

It goes to another photo. Like so. I have about 600-3000 photos potentially.

Very simple use case, assuming you know the basics of coding.

I learned to code over a number of years back when I was still doing that, but I'd imagine you could learn how to code an app like that pretty quickly, assuming you were focused and putting in work daily.

I've heard that people use CodeAcademy & Udemy for this? (no personal experience)

 

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[BrooklynHustle]

Thank you! You did. So I need to make my pictures in 9:16 and 3:4. Just gotta figure out the right resolution to allow some zooming-in.

How long would it take to learn coding to make an app that basically had a bunch of buttons and photos? Then perhaps I could have someone else code specific functionality.

Also, you can probably purchase a template that gives you 90% of the functionality you are looking for from CodeCanyon or some similar source code site.

 

[luniac]

If the images were like 256kb is that too large?

if its 256kb after compression than just do the math and decide what's acceptable. 4 images is 1mb. 200 is 50 mb, and that's pretty damn huge. you wanna have possibly 1000+, u gonna need to do better than that.

or like i said, download the image as necessary from the internet.

I think my images compressed, were like 32kb per image or something similar.

 

[BrooklynHustle]

if its 256kb after compression than just do the math and decide what's acceptable. 4 images is 1mb. 200 is 50 mb, and that's pretty damn huge. you wanna have possibly 1000+, u gonna need to do better than that.

or like i said, download the image as necessary from the internet.

I think my images compressed, were like 32kb per image or something similar.

Agreed

 

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[BrooklynHustle]

Thanks @BrooklynHustle !!

I was able to verify the need without creating a landing page. I found an app that was almost identical to what I wanted to do. However the dev skipped out some years ago and left this app still on the store. The comments say everything (what they wish the app had, what info it should contain- a literal GOLD-MINE!).

Funny thing is, the domain was also available too! So I bought it and redirected any email to mine- just in-case.

Also 50k downloads on this particular app. And thats with NO advertising!!

The app I believe was a lead-in for a different product. An Enterprise based product that costs over $1,000 or more a year to use. That app was aimed at Enterprises. I want to create an app that's aimed at the users themselves that's a bit cheaper.

This is a great find!

Best of luck mining the opportunity!

 

[EricFromCanada]

Hey @BrooklynHustle ,
First off, I would like to say thanks for taking the time to do this AMA.
One question I have for you is how do you go about monetization when dealing with low retention rates on an app? The reason I'm asking is because in March of 2017, I launched a VR app that has so far gotten 3,000 installs and is currently getting about 300 installs a month (all organic). However, one thing I have noticed is that even though the app has gotten lots of good reviews (4.7 star rating), it has had very low retention rates. which is supposedly common among nearly all VR apps. Anyways, I would really appreciate any insight on how to monetize when in a situation like this.

 

[Nemolein]

What could you say to a beginner in this area? I'm just realized that there is a need i could solve. I dont know any about building an app on play store, but i really wanna start creating something but no knowledge of computer science, software, etc. From where could i start? Do i need to take some classes in this area or educating myself?.
I'm really lost in this area.

 

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[Real Deal Denver]

I have an app I'd like built - I think. It may not be an app, I don't know. It may be a website linked to a database, and converted to mobile format to look like an app.

I want to create a collection of products, in groups. You pick a group, then see a list of products, from which you can choose one. After choosing one, a video screen pops up with a menu to choose from. In that menu, you can choose to play from the beginning, or jump to certain sections of the video, like specifications, price, etc. You can also choose to play the videos step by step - in other words, after each discussion of the the separate features is finished, the video pauses, until you hit the forward button. Or, you can hit the back button to repeat that section. These are complex products, so this is kind of a combination "how-to" video and a selling by feature video. This is for an informed audience, not an interest generating video aimed at creating interest from a sales perspective.

So, not knowing anything about apps, I am wondering how to approach creating this. I'd ideally like a small easy to use app that would be like a front door to open the full fledged program. I'd like the full program to exist as a standalone thing that someone could download and refer to it on their schedule. If it goes well, which I am expecting it to do so, I'd like to expand it and make it more educational, and have a renewal fee on an annual basis, based on the newest advances in the field. I don't want it linked through the internet for content feed because, after the initial download, not all my customers will have access to the internet whenever they will want to run it. To add pay-for options and renewals, an internet connection would be desirable. But it is important for it to be sold and used as a standalone product, independent of the internet. That would be sold as a DVD, for example, or a one time download.

This would kind of be like an on demand college course, but tied into proprietary information. I'd also like a "key word" pop up screen available for each video so it could be paused and any particular term or process can be better defined, as a side note. A built in index, if you will, but tailored to each video, while also having any and all terms searchable.

This is, as you see, kind of hard to describe while maintaining confidentiality of the product.

Being I am not an internet geek, but know more than the average consumer, I am hoping you can point me in the right direction of how to identify this, and how to build it. Then I can search out the details, once I am pointed in the right direction, at least.

I am expecting the video content to total maybe 1,000 hours or so. This will be quite a substantial collection of information.

Any idea of costs to put this in a data base format would be helpful. The videos already exist, but will need to be modified to overlay the key features screen, and video controls, such as playback speed, pause, restart, end, and step by step playback. Of course the table of contents feature needs to be developed as well.

This, of course, is in the early planning stages. Any and all advice will be greatly appreciated.

 

[BrooklynHustle]

Hey @BrooklynHustle ,
First off, I would like to say thanks for taking the time to do this AMA.
One question I have for you is how do you go about monetization when dealing with low retention rates on an app? The reason I'm asking is because in March of 2017, I launched a VR app that has so far gotten 3,000 installs and is currently getting about 300 installs a month (all organic). However, one thing I have noticed is that even though the app has gotten lots of good reviews (4.7 star rating), it has had very low retention rates. which is supposedly common among nearly all VR apps. Anyways, I would really appreciate any insight on how to monetize when in a situation like this.

Definitely my pleasure, man...

That's an awesome rating... congrats on that! How many reviews? Can we see the app?

So the main issue I've seen with VR is that for most people, it's still a novelty.

In most cases, people pick it up once, say "wow, that's amazing..." and don't touch the stuff again for months.

My friend who was doing decently with VR stuff was doing it by selling his games for up-front payment which fits in with this behavior. That seems to be the most viable model, as noone has figured out ads, in app purchases, or subscriptions.

I believe horror games as well as theme park type experiences were some of the best performers. Of course, getting the apps in front of enough eyeballs to convert and make some sales is going to be key here.

 

[EricFromCanada]

Definitely my pleasure, man...

That's an awesome rating... congrats on that! How many reviews? Can we see the app?

So the main issue I've seen with VR is that for most people, it's still a novelty.

In most cases, people pick it up once, say "wow, that's amazing..." and don't touch the stuff again for months.

My friend who was doing decently with VR stuff was doing it by selling his games for up-front payment which fits in with this behavior. That seems to be the most viable model, as noone has figured out ads, in app purchases, or subscriptions.

I believe horror games as well as theme park type experiences were some of the best performers. Of course, getting the apps in front of enough eyeballs to convert and make some sales is going to be key here.

So far the app has 13 reviews (only 2 of which were from people I know).
The purpose of the app is to help people improve their public speaking by having them present in a virtual environment, and then tracking eye contact, voice speed, filler words (um/uh), etc, and giving feedback to them afterwards.
Here's a link to the app on the Google Play Store.

Definitely agree with it being a novelty. I just had a skype call with a VR company who has built one of the top free VR apps on the Gear VR store (over 500k installs), and even they said they are struggling in terms of revenue right now going off an IAP model.

Right now I'm working on building a physical product that would be connected to the app. My plan is to focus on making revenue off the physical product right now, until VR gains more adoption. Also, since the product will be connected largely to the app, I still hold a reason to work on improving the VR app in the meantime.

Thanks again for the response!

 

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[BrooklynHustle]

So far the app has 13 reviews (only 2 of which were from people I know).
The purpose of the app is to help people improve their public speaking by having them present in a virtual environment, and then tracking eye contact, voice speed, filler words (um/uh), etc, and giving feedback to them afterwards.
Here's a link to the app on the Google Play Store.

Definitely agree with it being a novelty. I just had a skype call with a VR company who has built one of the top free VR apps on the Gear VR store (over 500k installs), and even they said they are struggling in terms of revenue right now going off an IAP model.

Right now I'm working on building a physical product that would be connected to the app. My plan is to focus on making revenue off the physical product right now, until VR gains more adoption. Also, since the product will be connected largely to the app, I still hold a reason to work on improving the VR app in the meantime.

Thanks again for the response!

Sounds like a pretty cool approach! And the current review trend bodes well (though you need many more for the number to be significant to the point you can make decisions from it)

Now take this for wat it's worth, but in my mind for this to make significant impact/money it seems like more of a sales job than anything. If you can demonstrate somehow that aside from being cool, your software also measurably improves public speaking performance, then you can start doing things like approaching companies and getting them to buy it en masse for their employees.

Speaking-based businesses like Dale Carnegie, TED, etc would probably be interested in the technology as well (though you'd probably want to repackage it and sell it with a different pricing model). What do you think?

Would be very interested to hear more about the physical product. A friend of mine has done 7-figures in profit selling VR hardware and becoming the leading supplier in a certain overseas country (where he also lives).

 

[fvcorp]

Thank you @BrooklynHustle for being so generous with your time.

I'm going to ask you a bit of a leading question. As a software developer myself, I have been in this business. I take it you have encountered a lot of people that say that:

1. You can't make money in the app business.
2. The app business is too saturated.
3. It costs too much because you can only make money if you advertise more than X game or Y enterprise app.

If you had to boil it down. What made you different?